• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Nioh |OT| Stamina is Ki

Status
Not open for further replies.
...I mean, I do want to learn. None of y'all are saying anything though. Just that there apparently are actually i-frames and this game is supposedly easy. Meanwhile I'm constantly in a frame trap with this boss and can't take more than a single hit without dying. Even with magic I'm having trouble (he can easily dodge the magic, for one thing) with him consistently rolling away from my attacks and following up with super quick stabs when I'm still in recovery frames.

I feel like I'm playing a different game here.

I literally said two times now read the skill trees then come back and ask if you're still confused. This is the third time.

Sorry but that you continue to complain instead of coming back with a specific question is intended or not a sign that you show no interest in learning anything.
That doesn't even mention all the other comments that showcase that.

Am I in the wrong here? I even thrown in some tips for Tachibana specifically. I don't know. You can't teach people that don't want to learn is my current position but if someone is a better teacher than me I'm willing to learn too, so help out.
 
I literally said two times now read the skill trees then come back and ask if you're still confused. This is the third time.

Sorry but that you continue to complain instead of coming back with a specific question is intended or not a sign that you show no interest in learning anything.
That doesn't even mention all the other comments that showcase that.

I did that when you first said it. If anything that made it worse since I'm now more confused about what the hell I'm actually supposed to be doing, so maybe don't suggest that in the future.

My specific question is: how do I evade this bosses attack damage using dual swords while still being able to do damage to him. Low stance requires point blank range which he severely punishes. Med/high stance have better range but not as quick, can't escape from his charge up move if I'm not already far enough away. In which case I'm not doing any damage. So... fuck?
 
I did that when you first said it. If anything that made it worse since I was more confused as to what the hell I was supposed to be doing, so maybe don't suggest that in the future.

My specific question is: how do I evade this bosses attack damage using dual swords while still being able to do damage to him. Low stance requires point blank range which he severely punishes. Med/high stance have better range but not as quick, can't escape from his charge up move if I'm not already far enough away. It's

So you read the skills but you don't see the parry skill. You don't see sloth. You don't see quickchange scroll or tiger scroll. You don't see poison shuriken you don't see lightning ward talisman. You don't see whirlwind which I mentioned. Do you even have flux and dodge ki pulse? There are still more skills that could all help you.

You also ignore my advice to just use the rock and wait until he depletes his stamina almost with his slasher combo which should also answer your question.

I feel like I'm getting trolled honestly.
 
options allows you to see what each stat, etc does exactly and most skills are blocked off anyways at the beginning. Too their are preview movies that show off what the skills do. I dont get this criticism sorry. Help icon is on the menu screen all the time im pretty sure

I don't understand your criticism of my criticism. Your response is that some information technically exists in completely non-interactive form. If you think having movies of most of the 40 or 50 respective skills in each tree is sufficiently communicative, then you must be blown away when games actually teach you through gameplay.
 
I did that when you first said it. If anything that made it worse since I'm now more confused about what the hell I'm actually supposed to be doing, so maybe don't suggest that in the future.

My specific question is: how do I evade this bosses attack damage using dual swords while still being able to do damage to him. Low stance requires point blank range which he severely punishes. Med/high stance have better range but not as quick, can't escape from his charge up move if I'm not already far enough away. In which case I'm not doing any damage. So... fuck?
Tachibana is quite difficult for new players. Work on depleting his ki and going for a grapple or knocking him down for a ground stab. You really have to learn all his moves in order to beat him at a low level. He mostly plays by your rules but can still attack when his ki is red.He recovers quickly. Stay quick. Low stance is bes for quick attacks and dodges
 
Absolutely. I was spear mid-stance the entire game, never using onmyo or ninjutsu and rocking red demon gear. I did pump a lot into Spirit and had enough Amrita crystals to regularly rely on my living weapon, but the play style was simply poke and dodge.

Many will claim that this is the 'cheap, no skill' build, but whatever. It's a play style I enjoy and often rewards aggression.

On a side note, I can't believe the rave reviews for this game. It's great, sure, but the environments and enemies lack variety, and no bosses were really standouts. Every Souls game has far more character and uniqueness (and the mainline games are all 60fps on PC anyway). A bit bewildered by scores over 8/10, but opinions right.

LOL - nah, its cool to have a build like that. I've already started on the Axe though, so I'll see how I go.

I love Nioh, but the game is bloated in many respects, including the Ninja and Onmyo trees. They are overwhelming to newer players, so it's nonsensical to respond to someone struggling in the beginning with a list of skills they are likely not aware of. Nioh does a poor job communicating player options (I mean, we had a post today explaining the exact effect of Earth), and I don't think it's an excuse to simply punt that failing by saying "well, you can always respec."

I don't really agree. There's no need to use Ninja and Onmyo till later anyway. By the time you're 10-15 hours into the game, it would make sense to try out some of the more intermediate skills and thats exactly what these skills are for.

It works, but you're limiting yourself. Don't look at stances as a mechanic where you main just one.

I'm trying the different stances when I fail, and enjoying them all. They all seem to have some purpose. I haven't done any of the more difficult stuff like chain different weapons and stances and that but its cool that its possible.
 
So you read the skills but you don't see the parry skill. You don't see sloth. You don't see quickchange scroll or tiger scroll. You don't see poison shuriken you don't see lightning ward talisman. You don't see whirlwind which I mentioned. Do you even have flux and dodge ki pulse? There are still more skills that could all help you.

You also ignore my advice to just use the rock and wait until he depletes his stamina almost with his slasher combo which should also answer your question.

I feel like I'm getting trolled honestly.

I feel like I'm getting trolled. Yes I see those skills. How are they supposed to help me beat this guy, exactly? There are no opportunities to Ki pulse against this guy when he just follows up with a death strike during the animations.

I also don't understand how the rock thing helps when he just regains stamina after he spends it.
 
I feel like I'm getting trolled. Yes I see those skills. How are they supposed to help me beat this guy, exactly? There are no opportunities to Ki pulse against this guy when he just follows up with a death strike during the animations.

I also don't understand how the rock thing helps when he just regains stamina after he spends it.

You can parry the guy and get easy free dmg.
You can poison him easy free dmg.
You can slow him so it's easier to find opportunity windows for free dmg.
You can curse weak him so you do more dmg.
You can strike him right after he is close to depleting his stamina because then he staggers for grapple or strike down and final blow.
You can skill lightning ward so his guardian spirit doesn't annoy you.
You can just whirlwind him during windows even if you mess up a little it's ok because whirlwind falls really fast into guard again so the vulnerability window for you is smaller.

Did I forget anything?

So how are you getting trolled again? Cause honestly when you come again with another complained about how nothing is helping I'm pretty sure it's me getting trolled. Because so far it's me trying to provide solutions and you shooting everything down without showing and ounce of willingness to absorb the information provided to you. Again maybe it's me sucking at it but dunno I asked other people that regard themselves better teachers to chime in.
 
LOL - nah, its cool to have a build like that. I've already started on the Axe though, so I'll see how I go.

I don't really agree. There's no need to use Ninja and Onmyo till later anyway. By the time you're 10-15 hours into the game, it would make sense to try out some of the more intermediate skills and thats exactly what these skills are for.

I'm trying the different stances when I fail, and enjoying them all. They all seem to have some purpose. I haven't done any of the more difficult stuff like chain different weapons and stances and that but its cool that its possible.
Ax is completely viable and I have used it since the alpha. The only thing you have to think about with it is what style you want to play. I have b weight and stick to mostly low and middle stance. However super heavy armor and high attacks is also viable and destroys ki quickly.

The only gripe I have is that the Ax living weapon isn't very good. Wish it had a skill for better attacks.
 
It's definitely a failing of the game that it doesn't tell you the fucking skill tree can scroll. I'd never seen weakness talisman because I thought there were just 5 rows of icons.
You realize how fucking stupid this reads out, as not only there is a clear sidebar indicating that there is stuff to scroll down to and several of the skill windows (Sword, Spear, Ninjutsu) have those lines down below indicating linked skills, the Weakness talisman is in the first group of the four spells your cursor will land on when you scroll over to Onmyo. It is literally one step to the right from that default position. One single fucking click to the right.
 
I feel like I'm getting trolled. Yes I see those skills. How are they supposed to help me beat this guy, exactly? There are no opportunities to Ki pulse against this guy when he just follows up with a death strike during the animations.

I also don't understand how the rock thing helps when he just regains stamina after he spends it.


First off—how/where do I see the parry skill?

Ok sorry but that really feels rude you've basically been lying about putting in the minimum effort I asked of you. I will still answer. Katana and dual katana have specific parry skills. For dual katana they're related to midstance so look around the midstance section of the skill tree somewhere in the mid for parry.

#failureofthegame
 
Ok sorry but that really feels rude you've basically been lying about putting in the minimum effort I asked of you. I will still answer. Katana and dual katana have specific parry skills. For dual katana they're related to midstance so look around the midstance section of the skill tree somewhere in the mid for parry.

#failureofthegame

I mean I read through them, no I didn't study each and every skill and open a spreadsheet to determine the perfect build for this particular boss. I thought I was playing a fucking souls-style action RPG here. I'm not trying to read through 50 different individual skills and decipher the best build here.

...also I was only concerned with low stance because that's where you supposedly get the good i-frames on the dodge (according to another poster in this thread). Mid/high might as well not exist.

You realize how fucking stupid this reads out, as not only there is a clear sidebar indicating that there is stuff to scroll down to and several of the skill windows (Sword, Spear, Ninjutsu) have those lines down below indicating linked skills, the Weakness talisman is in the first group of the four spells your cursor will land on when you scroll over to Onmyo. It is literally one step to the right from that default position. One single fucking click to the right.

I ignored Onmyo completely. I didn't realize this game forced you to use magic. Again, I've been playing it like Souls. It presents itself like Souls. In Souls I ignore magic.
 
I mean I read through them, no I didn't study each and every skill and open a spreadsheet to determine the perfect build for this particular boss. I thought I was playing a fucking souls-style action RPG here. I'm not trying to read through 50 different individual skills and decipher the best build here.



I ignored Onmyo completely. I didn't realize this game forced you to use magic. Again, I've been playing it like Souls. It presents itself like Souls. In Souls I ignore magic.

I didn't do that either. I simply read the skills or watched the video and experimented and then I learned. Like let's be honest what's a spreadsheet going to do for you for any of the skills that I redundantly explained. Like you need to open a spreadsheet to understand poison, parry, slow, weakness?
And you don't even need to read through all of them because it clearly also states which skills you cannot unlock right now with some being ??? if I remember right. I didn't even read all the skills like from the other weapons because I spend the time first to make sure what weapons suit my playstyle.

Also pls stop it the game doesn't force you to do anything but learn a little bit of it you can choose which bits. You don't need onmyou it's just an option open to you. People have beat this game on lvl 1 just by learning the combat basics. You are in control of how hard or easy you want to make it the game gives you that freedom.

You're straight up being silly and I'm getting tired of trying to help because you continue to just showcase an unwillingness to learn or admit the possibility that it's not the game but you.

I mean it shows with how hard it seems to be for you to absorb any kind of information and being so picky and choosy about the things said just to suit your case while blatantly ignoring other whole parts of statements made.

Honestly Souls elitism is terrible but cases like this just make me think git gud or leave it nobody forces you to play the game. Don't be a Stapleton.
 
I ignored Onmyo completely. I didn't realize this game forced you to use magic. Again, I've been playing it like Souls. It presents itself like Souls. In Souls I ignore magic.
It forces nothing on you. They are options. You mentioned having a struggle, so people suggested that as an option to help you with that struggle.

Edit: You know what, fuck it. Here is a rather famous Souls streamer, literally playing Nioh for the first time when he played the Last Chance Trial just before launch. He ignores more or less everything that makes the game be not like Souls because he doesn't take the basic time to read anything after the tutorial. He uses the Axe, the slowest weapon in the game, doesn't really Ki pulse, doesn't stance switch. He beats Tachibana like that, taking about.. what, 30 minutes (1:55 - 2:25) from the first time he enters the fight to actually beating him.

So you can actually just play it like Souls and still win. And yes, the Axe isn't the Double Sword, they have different properties, but it all ends the same. You learn what he can do, you learn what you can do. The you do 1+1 = 2 and beat the fucker.
 
Ok, so tell me which weapon tree I should focus on then.

- I don't want to change stances, ever
- I don't want to use magic, ever
- I want to dodge around a lot and play this like Bloodborne
- I need good i-frames on dodge/roll

What should I be using then? 'cuz it ain't dual swords.
 
Ok, so tell me which weapon tree I should focus on then.

- I don't want to change stances, ever
- I don't want to use magic, ever
- I want to dodge around a lot and play this like Bloodborne
- I need good i-frames on dodge/roll

What should I be using then? 'cuz it ain't dual swords.

I already answered this AXE. For better rolls and dodge like in souls wear light armor.
Why are you unable to read?

I'm not helping anymore cause you're being a true jerk about it and it's frustrating me probably more than you.
 
I didn't try any other weapons, I wanted to use dual swords. lol

Just frustrating that every video I watch on YouTube is some dude using one sword in high stance, or a spear, or some other shit that has massive ass range while I'm trying to figure out how to dash around this guy and hit him point blank without getting two-shotted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677LH0ksQLQ

Do it like this.

Do it exactly like this.

Don't do anything he's not doing.

EDIT: He's not even the best at it, but in turn it should show that you don't need to be perfect to kill this boss.
 
Man that Tachibana/Honda is a rage maker... I just dislike Tachibana.. Ugh.. Die.. Just Die... This man does so much cardiovascular to keep that stamina up non stop. Does Tachibana do HIIT training?
 
I ignored Onmyo completely. I didn't realize this game forced you to use magic. Again, I've been playing it like Souls. It presents itself like Souls. In Souls I ignore magic.
You're not forced to use magic. However:

Ok, so tell me which weapon tree I should focus on then.

- I don't want to change stances, ever
- I don't want to use magic, ever
- I want to dodge around a lot and play this like Bloodborne
- I need good i-frames on dodge/roll

What should I be using then? 'cuz it ain't dual swords.
Refusing to change stances is silly since, while also not mandatory and like I mentioned towards someone else earlier, you're limiting your options for no valid reason. All of the stances have their different innate advantages - low stance for quickest hits + the 'best' dodge, medium stance for the 'best' block + horizontal strikes that help control crowd, high stance for raw damage - and that's ignoring the variety of skills you'd be neglecting. Those are only a few examples off the top of my head. Consider it like not wanting to use heavy attacks nor the second half of a transforming weapon's move set in Bloodborne, only more in-depth in Nioh given the choice available to you. Here's also someone doing a no-damage fight against Tachibana with nothing but the bare necessities whilst using a single katana, albeit with several manoeuvres that are also available for the dual katana like the parry, the kick and the charging sheathe strike.
 
I mean again why complain you don't want to test other options that might suit your playing style more but you also don't want to learn about dual swords your weapon of choice.
Weird.



Knowing the exact effects of earth is such an inconsequential thing to learn in Nioh, I didn't even know about it nice for min maxing but honestly not important. The things that are essential get communicated during the dojo missions(like flux, ki pulse etc) and just by reading well enough.
After all how did I learn about them? It's not like some people are magically more apt at the game.

I think it's very clear always in these cases that the problems stem from attitude. Other people that are confused just go ask they take in the information and then succeed. But here again a clear case of complain about everything don't want to learn anything. Which is definitely fair but at that point maybe you're not enjoying the game? Like I'm like that with other games. Where the learning process feels to much like a hassle and I'm not motivated(many fighting games for example). Is that the games fault? In my opinion no. I accept that it's not something I want to play.

Easy as that.

I think there is a huge disconnect here. For example, your response to a struggling player was:

"Not even that hard with weakness talisman and whirl winding during opportunity windows.
Add to that whirlwind is a good way to apply elemental status makes it easy to apply discord/confusion with elemental shots for even higher dmg."

You didn't mention "flux, ki pulse etc." Flux and Ki Pulse are sufficiently communicated through a tutorial. There is no need to mention them. Elemental statuses (including Earth) are never communicated beyond their existence. Discord is never communicated. It's clear what Weakness does generally, but its utility isn't salient. Reduces defense by how much? You have to use it to know how good it is.

Nobody is arguing you can't possibly understand these things, but yes, I think the game sucks at helping you to do so. If they are important enough skills and mechanics to be in your response to a struggling player, they should be communicated in the game, not on message boards.

As to your second paragraph, I completely agree with your statements of issue, but it's just one side of the coin. It's not all on the player or all on the game. It's up to players to put in some minimal investment to grok the systems and mechanics before blaming the game, but it's also up to the game developer to minimize the hassle. Some do a poor job of it.
 
Ax is completely viable and I have used it since the alpha. The only thing you have to think about with it is what style you want to play. I have b weight and stick to mostly low and middle stance. However super heavy armor and high attacks is also viable and destroys ki quickly.

The only gripe I have is that the Ax living weapon isn't very good. Wish it had a skill for better attacks.

Cool thanks. I used the single katana in the last chance trial, and wanted to try something else. I chose the axe because it seemed like it did a lot of damage and there's no shield in this game anyway.
 
Ok, so tell me which weapon tree I should focus on then.

- I don't want to change stances, ever
- I don't want to use magic, ever
- I want to dodge around a lot and play this like Bloodborne
- I need good i-frames on dodge/roll

What should I be using then? 'cuz it ain't dual swords.

You realise you're playing Nioh and not Bloodborne right?

Even playing a game like Mario, the further you get into the game the more advanced skills you need to learn. I'm hazarding a guess but I'm pretty sure the devs want people to play around with stances and not just Bloodborne the entire game.
 
Hey NiohGAF, do weapons ever start to feel powerful? I feel like weak enemies take way too many hits. I'm mostly using a katana and axe right now and i've beaten 2 bosses.
 
Now that I'm nearly at the end of the game, I can safely say that spears are my weapon of choice, followed closely by axes. None of the other weapon types really feel right to me.
 
Now that I'm nearly at the end of the game, I can safely say that spears are my weapon of choice, followed closely by axes. None of the other weapon types really feel right to me.

I was single katana the entire game. Only used the other ones during NG+ to get the mystic arts trophies. Kusarigama low stance was the most fun of any of the extras, followed maybe by axe.
 
Fuck.

Raven.

Tengus.

F U C K.

R A V E N.

T E N G U S.

F U C K.

R A V E N.

T E N G U S.

The person who designed the sub mission where you fight two of them needs to get their head checked.
 
Clearly I picked the wrong build.

The fact that there's a wrong build really pisses me off.
There isn't.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that dual swords with light armor is a wrong build. Die in one or two hits and horrible range.

Also does this game not have i-frames on the dodge? Ugh.
Yes it does. And that's a valid build. However, feel free to wear heavier armour so long as you remain in the green, if you die too fast heavy armour will help but your dodging will still be fast if you are in the green.

I mean I read through them, no I didn't study each and every skill and open a spreadsheet to determine the perfect build for this particular boss. I thought I was playing a fucking souls-style action RPG here. I'm not trying to read through 50 different individual skills and decipher the best build here.
Sigh... yes it's a Souls-style action-RPG, but it's not a Souls clone, so if you don't want to struggle all the time you should learn the mechanics that are unique to this game instead of plugging your ears going "la-la can't hear you". The skill tree is important. You don't need to analyze and decipher all of them yet, but if you are struggling so bad it can't hurt to take a look and see if there isn't something that could give you an edge, right?

...also I was only concerned with low stance because that's where you supposedly get the good i-frames on the dodge (according to another poster in this thread). Mid/high might as well not exist.
Mid stance on dual kats is awesome. You get a good combo (God of Wind), and a fantastic triangle-parry (though that's unlocked much later IIRC).
High stance is also great. Windstorm is one of the most powerful skills in the game. When I still sucked at the game back in the beta, I still managed to win against a boss a lot of people considered very hard (Twilight mode even) doing nothing but Souls-style rolling in high stance and the Windstorm attack and won on my first try despite doing tons of sloppy mistake (video of me winning despite sucking here), that's how good that skill is.

For single katana make sure you get the kick combo finisher and/or the Block + Triangle ki attack, as it's good to drain ki and you want to do that often, it's very efficient against Tachibana because you get free critical hits.

I ignored Onmyo completely. I didn't realize this game forced you to use magic. Again, I've been playing it like Souls. It presents itself like Souls. In Souls I ignore magic.
*eye-roll*
No, the game doesn't force you to use magic. But you are saying you are struggling, so people give you tips that could help or give you an edge. How about you stop this passive-aggressive whining?

Ok, so tell me which weapon tree I should focus on then.

1- I don't want to change stances, ever
2- I don't want to use magic, ever
3- I want to dodge around a lot and play this like Bloodborne
4- I need good i-frames on dodge/roll

What should I be using then? 'cuz it ain't dual swords.
Dual swords are fine. So are single katanas. It's all I ever used on this playthrough actually. I do use some magic (weapon buffs and ki-draining debuffs, mainly) but rarely, hell I often forget I have them. Low-stance katana is so fast it's almost Blades of Mercy like, mid-stance is similar to the Chikage in speed but with more horizontal strikes than vertical (high stance has the slower, more powerful vertical attacks).

That said, #1 is dumb. The stances are a core mechanic of the gameplay. It's like staunchly refusing to use the regain system or the gun in Bloodborne because "that's not in Dark Souls and I want to play this like Dark Souls". Each stance has their advantages and trade-offs.
 
They're EZPZ
Running around with 11.9 million Armrita because I like to live dangerously

Actually speaking of that has anyone actually ever lost their Amrita in this game? This is the first time in a game with this mechanic where I have never not been able to make it back to where I died and retrieve my amrita. Might be because of the numerous short cuts in a lot of stages.
 
Actually speaking of that has anyone actually ever lost their Amrita in this game? This is the first time in a game with this mechanic where I have never not been able to make it back to where I died and retrieve my amrita. Might be because of the numerous short cuts in a lot of stages.

I have but for carelessness on my part.

But also on the topic let's not forget, you can also just use a summoning candle if it's too risky
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom