NPD Sales Results for November 2015 [Up3: Combined Hardware For PS4 + XB1 + Wii U]

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
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No need to worry, every single japanese 3rd party game is guaranteed to have an NX version, they just can't announce it yet because it hasn't been evealed.

Or so i've read in other threads anyway, so it must be true /s
Well for handheld software I believe this is true. For consore software everyone is just under nda just like wii u.

The nda for the WiiU software will be up any day now!
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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theflyingthoughtsblog.wordpress.com
out of curiosity, which user got banned?
I don't remember the exact nickname, but it's the one who used to shit on announcement on PlayStation platforms by saying things like "Well, what a shit decision! They're limiting their sales with no reason at all! They need to release it on NX or they'll die". It was quite amazing. And funny. And depressing. All at the same time, what a feat!
 

Shahed

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Feb 14, 2012
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I don't remember the exact nickname, but it's the one who used to shit on announcement on PlayStation platforms by saying things like "Well, what a shit decision! They're limiting their sales with no reason at all! They need to release it on NX or they'll die". It was quite amazing. And funny. And depressing. All at the same time, what a feat!
Ryoonz with a Star Ocean 5 avatar of the male lead. They were being sarcastic and referencing that every PS4 game would come to NX and trying to be ironic about it based on similar posts by other people. Obviously the balance was completely off and they got banned for constant thread shitting and port begging.
 

Conduit

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Jun 20, 2014
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Don't pay attention to those BOM estimates on the net. They're bunk in the first place and don't include the important things like retailer margins, shipping, assembly, testing, packaging, yada yada. This makes them deceptive as a barometer of cost to manufacture.

Ps4 was losing money at launch. Thankfully not PS3 levels of money, but it's enough to show you how wrong those sites are.
Hm....Kaz Hirai said otherwise more than year and a half ago
 

Rymuth

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Jun 8, 2014
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Ryoonz with a Star Ocean 5 avatar of the male lead. They were being sarcastic and referencing that every PS4 game would come to NX and trying to be ironic about it based on similar posts by other people. Obviously the balance was completely off and they got banned for constant thread shitting and port begging.
Oh wow, I remember that user. Figured the joke would get old sooner or later.
 

Oregano

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Mar 13, 2013
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Well for handheld software I believe this is true. For consore software everyone is just under nda just like wii u.

The nda for the WiiU software will be up any day now!
It's not even true for handheld software IMO. Some publishers are still making PSP games so I expect Vita will still get good support even after NX has launched. Especially when they can just make it a PS4/Vita game(and probably get support from Sony).
 

QaaQer

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Jun 13, 2012
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years of experience has reduced expectations
The WUST threads made it hard for future locomotives.


"Wii U hype train has fundamental design flaw" 2011-2012, photographer unknown
Image courtesy NeoGaf Intentional Archive Foundation, Geneva, Switzerland
 

slavesnyder

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Nov 18, 2013
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Hm....Kaz Hirai said otherwise more than year and a half ago
I don't get this. If we assume it cost them even just 350$ to make a console, they would lose (loose) money with 400$ retail price. We easily forget the share fkr retailers and tax and so on.
They just lose so few in the end that subscriptions, ads, software and services like netflix make it profitable really fast.
And that's much better than PS3 did for a long time.
 

gundamkyoukai

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Aug 30, 2009
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I don't get this. If we assume it cost them even just 350$ to make a console, they would lose (loose) money with 400$ retail price. We easily forget the share fkr retailers and tax and so on.
They just lose so few in the end that subscriptions, ads, software and services like netflix make it profitable really fast.
And that's much better than PS3 did for a long time.
You also have to take exchange rate into account , where system getting build etc etc .
There a lot of variables people not looking at .
 

Y2Kev

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Kev, I'm curious about your thoughts that nextbox is going to release in 2018. You think they want to get the jump on next gen and try to emulate what they did with the 360? Do you think Sony will release to match them or wait it out until they're ready?
Sony will never give Microsoft another head start (there's like one hardware gen left so...). There's no need anymore. PS3 was delayed by a lot of things, namely the exotic hardware not being ready. That shouldn't happen again.
 
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So Sony would get pulled into MS "rushing" to get their next console out?

I figure Sony would want to extend this generation as long as possible to get as much profit as possible. They are on top of things and I imagine their margins are looking pretty good.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
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It's not rushing to have a 5 year gen.

So Sony would get pulled into MS "rushing" to get their next console out?

I figure Sony would want to extend this generation as long as possible to get as much profit as possible. They are on top of things and I imagine their margins are looking pretty good.
They tried this with PS2 and it had some pretty big consequences for PS3 (it impacts more than just release timing-- the whole philosophy was to push technology in an unsustainable way because they had the PS2 on the market). The core market is too important to lose, particularly as it becomes a larger and larger share of the overall market.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
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With the packaged goods and console video game industry dying wouldn't it make sense to make all kinds of unsustainable plays?

I'm talking about stuff like Take Two shitting out Grand Theft Auto's every year. Until people have caught onto that they have probably sold 50 million copies again.

I think that would yield more money than trying this whole shark card economy stuff. :p
 

daniel77733

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Aug 9, 2014
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Both PS4 and Xbox One should at the very least last until Fall 2021 because both consoles are doing great and better than their predecessors did in the same time frame. Rushing out the ninth generation of consoles would be a mistake in my opinion regardless of if it's Sony or Microsoft.
 

Blanquito

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Jul 19, 2013
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Sony will never give Microsoft another head start (there's like one hardware gen left so...). There's no need anymore. PS3 was delayed by a lot of things, namely the exotic hardware not being ready. That shouldn't happen again.
you feel confident in a 2018 release?
 

Usobuko

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Feb 3, 2013
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So,Tomb Raider available on PC on Jan 2016.

What is an educated guess of Microsoft deal with Square Enix in monetary terms, along with possible waive of royalities and aid in promotion campaign?

I look at the projected sales for SE FY2015 ( 157 billions yens) , and while it doesn't specify the proportion of the three area of revenues, I can't help to wonder the degree of TR meeting SE expectations.
 
Jun 26, 2013
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So,Tomb Raider available on PC on Jan 2016.

What is an educated guess of Microsoft deal with Square Enix in monetary terms, along with possible waive of royalities and aid in promotion campaign?

I look at the projected sales for SE FY2015 ( 157 billions yens) , and while it doesn't specify the proportion of the three area of revenues, I can't help to wonder the degree of TR meeting SE expectations.
It's going to come down to the PC version doing the legwork.
 

truth411

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May 19, 2014
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Kev, I'm curious about your thoughts that nextbox is going to release in 2018. You think they want to get the jump on next gen and try to emulate what they did with the 360? Do you think Sony will release to match them or wait it out until they're ready?
If VR takes off, nobody will release anything until 2020 or 2021. Simply because of the tech needed for high resolution and high framrates, they would needed 7nm chips. 2018 or 2019 wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

Edit: not to mention the development time it takes to make games these days.
 

noobie

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Sony will never give Microsoft another head start (there's like one hardware gen left so...). There's no need anymore. PS3 was delayed by a lot of things, namely the exotic hardware not being ready. That shouldn't happen again.
If Sony releases PS5 in 2018 then this means that half of the Sony World Wide Studios will have no game on PS4. :p Complacency of Sony Studios exceeds Complacency of Sony

Just Joking
 

biglittleps

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Feb 4, 2014
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If Sony releases PS5 in 2018 then this means that half of the Sony World Wide Studios will have no game on PS4. :p Complacency of Sony Studios exceeds Complacency of Sony

Just Joking
May be those 2018-19 games will work in PS5 via backwards compatibility along with some new games made for PS5. I fully expect PS5 in holiday 2018 if the VR is successful as they need updated hardware for future experiences.
 

orochi91

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Jan 10, 2014
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If Sony releases PS5 in 2018 then this means that half of the Sony World Wide Studios will have no game on PS4. :p Complacency of Sony Studios exceeds Complacency of Sony

Just Joking
You jest, but I actually agree.

Assuming they announce the next gen at E3 2018 and launch during the holiday season of the same year, Sony's WWS output would be shockingly abysmal this gen.

Most of their big studios haven't released anything yet, and won't be able to put out a second title within 1.5 years.

There simply isn't enough time! Especially if it's going to be a traditional 5-year cycle.

Such a drastic decrease in output from the PS3 era.

Yoshida fucking up non-stop.

Time-to-triangle boost was a lie.
 

jahasaja

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Mar 31, 2015
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Sony will never give Microsoft another head start (there's like one hardware gen left so...). There's no need anymore. PS3 was delayed by a lot of things, namely the exotic hardware not being ready. That shouldn't happen again.
Are we even sure a nextbox will come? All the changes in Microsoft seems like they are downplaying the xboxone and speaking more about PC. Or perhaps that is only in terms of sales?
 

truth411

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May 19, 2014
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May be those 2018-19 games will work in PS5 via backwards compatibility along with some new games made for PS5. I fully expect PS5 in holiday 2018 if the VR is successful as they need updated hardware for future experiences.
No way in hell will the PS5 come out 3 years from now.
 

boredandlazy

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Feb 2, 2012
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You jest, but I actually agree.

Assuming they announce the next gen at E3 2018 and launch during the holiday season of the same year, Sony's WWS output would be shockingly abysmal this gen.

Most of their big studios haven't released anything yet, and won't be able to put out a second title within 1.5 years.

There simply isn't enough time! Especially if it's going to be a traditional 5-year cycle.

Such a drastic decrease in output from the PS3 era.

Yoshida fucking up non-stop.

Time-to-triangle boost was a lie.
You should lobby for Shu's position. You always seem to know better.
 

travisbickle

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Mar 26, 2006
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You jest, but I actually agree.

Assuming they announce the next gen at E3 2018 and launch during the holiday season of the same year, Sony's WWS output would be shockingly abysmal this gen.

Most of their big studios haven't released anything yet, and won't be able to put out a second title within 1.5 years.

There simply isn't enough time! Especially if it's going to be a traditional 5-year cycle.

Such a drastic decrease in output from the PS3 era.

Yoshida fucking up non-stop.

Time-to-triangle boost was a lie.

If it all goes according to plan won't every studio have made a game by the end of 2016? Except Bend Studio ... which may be the E3 announced released in winter same year game Sony have had the last few E3s.
 

xenorevlis

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Time-to-triangle boost was a lie.
Not at all. You think time to triangle is the end all determinant factor in making a game? They haven't messed up much at all, aside from rushing games for launch (which is a sort-of necessary thing). Time to triangle just means they can get the games running quicker, but making a new-gen experience is STILL going to be a huge task for AAA games in terms of engine work, asset creation, etc. It takes literally a thousand people working together to pump a AAA title out quickly (see: Assassin's Creed titles) and most of WWS are much smaller than those kind of situations. Being closer to a PC means games can be running in a matter of days, if not day-of when being ported, and stuff from the ground up can run much quicker, but that doesn't magically erase all the work involved in making a more visually and logically advanced interactive design come to life and get to a finished (enough) for release state.
 

nib95

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Feb 26, 2007
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You jest, but I actually agree.

Assuming they announce the next gen at E3 2018 and launch during the holiday season of the same year, Sony's WWS output would be shockingly abysmal this gen.

Most of their big studios haven't released anything yet, and won't be able to put out a second title within 1.5 years.

There simply isn't enough time! Especially if it's going to be a traditional 5-year cycle.

Such a drastic decrease in output from the PS3 era.

Yoshida fucking up non-stop.

Time-to-triangle boost was a lie.
That's because games tend to be a lot more ambitious now, at least from a graphics, tech and art perspective. Time to triangle differences only make sense if you're comparing the exact same product.
 

funkystudent

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Apr 3, 2010
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I would be surprised if we dont start hearing credible whispers about the next xbox next year.


I'd be curious what would happen if they wanted to get something out by holiday 2017.

Seems like MS has all the reasons in the world to repeat the XB to 360 strategy and kill the XB1 early whereas Sony is in a real nice place and probably wants to stay there.


Year 5 seems like a safe bet for new hardware but if someone wanted to go for year 4 I wouldn't be entirely surprised.
 

Shin-chan

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May 8, 2015
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I can see there being some pressure from big publishers not to release new hardware that quickly, as they've just managing to build up the assets and production pipelines for the gen. That's purely speculation, though, feel free to tell me why this is wrong.

I also suspect Sony will want the PS4 to last longer for Japan, as a PS5 will not have good fortune there when most devs are on the cusp of getting to grips with the PS4 only now. Relaunching could be very risky for that market.

Edit: I guess this changes if the new product is the same as the old one with better tech (e.g. A PC with a new graphics card and more ram but the same everything else) so that the development methods are more or less the same, there is just more horsepower to deal with. This would also suggest BC, too, which I think is a necessary standard when you look at PC as a platform to compete with (by this I mean the ability of old games to sell at discount on PC).
 

Rymuth

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I also suspect Sony will want the PS4 to last longer for Japan, as a PS5 will not have good fortune there when most devs are on the cusp of getting to grips with the PS4 only now. Relaunching could be very risky for that market.
This bit mirrors my thought process.

Also, congrats on the membership.
 

Javin98

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Nov 30, 2014
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Personally, I still think that the earliest we'll see the successors to the PS4 and XB1 would be holiday 2019, but I'm betting holiday 2020 for the PS5. Games these days take a very long time to develop and I don't think it's beneficial for anyone if the new consoles launch too soon.
 

Averon

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It will be interesting to see when Sony will pull the trigger on the PS5. They are in a great position with the PS4, a position they have not been in since the PS2 days. So, it is natural they they would want to extend the length they are in this position for as long as possible. On the other hand, waiting too long for the PS5 risks Sony giving MS as strong edge, at least I NA, where the XBO still sells competitively with the PS4. A few good moves from MS, and I can easily see a scenario whee the next Xbox have Xbox 360-like dominance/influence in NA.

Then you have to consider PS VR, which is a big wild card. If it becomes a hit, that's just more incentive for Sony to extend the PS4's lifespan.



As for first party output, I just don't think 5 years is not enough time for development studios to release no more that 1-2 big AAA titles. AAA game development is more complex and time consuming than ever.
 

watdaeff4

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Personally, I still think that the earliest we'll see the successors to the PS4 and XB1 would be holiday 2019, but I'm betting holiday 2020 for the PS5. Games these days take a very long time to develop and I don't think it's beneficial for anyone if the new consoles launch too soon.
I think
hope
you're correct
 

Kyoufu

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Most of their big studios haven't released anything yet, and won't be able to put out a second title within 1.5 years.
Ignoring the rest of this post, which studios are actually able to put out another AAA game within 1.5 years? I'd wager not as many as you think. Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty devs have moved to a 3 year cycle instead of 2. AAA Game development has become more demanding and time consuming so longer dev times are a natural side effect.

Yoshida's only mistake was releasing GT6 on PS3 after PS4 launched.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
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It's not that time to triangle has increased, it's that the number of triangles in Uncharted 4 is like seventy orders of magnitude higher than the number of triangles in Tomb Raider.
 

viHuGi

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Jun 23, 2015
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Why rush Playstation 5 if Ps4 will crush Ps1 and Ps3 in sales?

And thanks to Playstation Store and Plus it will bring much more money than any Playstation to date.

Sony must be pleased.
 

thuway

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Feb 25, 2008
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Time to Triangle has nothing to do with SCE's poor leadership with first party efforts.

PS4 might be doing incredibly well, but that doesn't excuse SCE's malady of poor decisions. As a huge fan of PS3's first party efforts - this is aggravating, but it makes sense. As market leaders- WWS took this generation as an opportunity to reboot studios, cut fat, and try and catapult studios stuck in purgatory into something much greater.


However- I agree with some of the posters above- SCE's First Party/Second Party work this generation is a blazing glory of mediocore. The timeline of mishaps speaks for itself:

1. At launch Knack and Killzone were critically panned. Despite good intentions of having first party software at launch, both games are more or less the butt end of jokes.
2. Sony Santa Monica's new IP was cancelled and left a huge gap in the Fall release schedule last year.
3. InFamous Second Son and Little Big Planet 3 are the weakest iterations in their respective franchises.
4. The Order: 1886 backfired into an oblivion I haven't seen for quite some time.
5. Drive Club (while incredible in it's current form) launched without the ability to function as advertised.
6. Naughty Dog trashed and rebooted an entire Uncharted game leaving another massive release schedule omission.

Bloodborne and Until Dawn are really the two shining examples of "we did it right." 2016 looks like an incredible year, but they really need to step their game up because PS4's WWS is a shell of what PS3 offered.
 

benny_a

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Apr 25, 2009
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Bloodborne and Until Dawn are really the two shining examples of "we did it right." 2016 looks like an incredible year, but they really need to step their game up because PS4's WWS is a shell of what PS3 offered.
Yeah, Until Dawn, the game announced in August 2012 is a shining example of doing it right.
 

thuway

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Yeah, Until Dawn, the game announced in August 2012 is a shining example of doing it right.
Until Dawn was a breakout success and a franchise that managed to outperform projections. That would count as a success? I mean it took a while, but they've created a franchise that has legs to really do some special things this generation.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
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Until Dawn was a breakout success and a franchise that managed to outperform projections. That would count as a success? I mean it took a while, but they've created a franchise that has legs to really do some special things this generation.
You are complaining about scheduling and bring up Until Dawn as an example of doing it right.

Clearly it doesn't take a genius to notice that you can't complain about scheduling problems while praising a game that had massive scheduling problems.