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NVIDIA Helping Sony with PS3 GPU
- Thread starter Lazy8s
- Start date
Idiot Member
Banned
I am pretty sure nvidia was aware that Nintendo and Microsoft were not going with them... even if the ATI deal wasn't known to the public.
And I am pretty sure that nvidia probably contacted sony considering who was in larger need of a deal.
I would actually buy a great deal of nvidia shares right now if 1. I knew how much they were getting in royalties, and 2. if I actually had money to invest.
And I am pretty sure that nvidia probably contacted sony considering who was in larger need of a deal.
I would actually buy a great deal of nvidia shares right now if 1. I knew how much they were getting in royalties, and 2. if I actually had money to invest.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Has MS even announced the processor that will run the xbox2?? I mean geezus dont tell me its gonna be that dual core apple PPC970 running at the "supposed" 3ghz. Apple cant even get em to run at 2.5 ghz without watercooling . In all actuality PS3 has everyone by the nuts ...well we'll see if it performs like its designed. it will rival pc for a while...but by the time this comes out pc will have dual core / dual vid cards/ SATA 3 etc.. just keep spendin that money!
I admit that I am a bit saddened by this news... It is a big blow to the Microsoft camp. If there was one advantage MS had, it was ease of development and PC/Xenon compatability. With an Nvidia/OpenGL solution, PS3 will certainly be easier to develop for... not easiest, but easier. Once devs get a handle on the CPU, I expect PS3 to make some huge graphical leaps in its lifespan. Graphically, I expect all systems to start out on equal grounds with Xenon/Revolution making minor improvements over the years (like now) and PS3 to have a steady increase.
just remember all you Sony lovers... without MS, you would be stuck with some bastardized Sony graphics solution. Competition is good!
just remember all you Sony lovers... without MS, you would be stuck with some bastardized Sony graphics solution. Competition is good!
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Fafalada said:
I am afraid to say this... but I think a good follow-up would be "Too late Fafalada"
.kaching said:I didn't see what MrSingh said...I guess you guys are on the road to recovery
Cell specs = Game Over for Xenon
.
so what's the best guess on PS3's Nvidia-based rendering technology: NV4x, NV5x, something inbetween, or something completely new?
I wonder if PS3's GPU is still based on the 'Visualizer' patent. there was always room for Nvidia's technology in the Pixel Engine portion of Visualizer. and perhaps other portions of Visualizer too.
can't wait to see how the final machine turns out.
exactly, exactly.
I wonder if PS3's GPU is still based on the 'Visualizer' patent. there was always room for Nvidia's technology in the Pixel Engine portion of Visualizer. and perhaps other portions of Visualizer too.
can't wait to see how the final machine turns out.
exactly, exactly.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Fafalada said:
What? You mean that using the EE&GS for Controller & Disk I/O, Network I/O and Sound might be pushing it 'a bit'? :lol
Awwww, I'm sure with the advances in GPGPU processing you could at least get a network stack running on the GS portion alone! - If you're feeling the strain you could always go into writing again
*watches Faf self-immolate*
Even with the xbot in me, I'm quite excited by how PS3 is going to be. Without Nvidia on board I wasn't really confident in the graphics capabilities of CELL. Let's see if it's going to live up to the hype.
Also I don't want a console with inferior graphics to dominate yet again.
Also I don't want a console with inferior graphics to dominate yet again.
xexex said:
It won't be the NV5x as we knew it, since that's apparently been canned. Possibly in favour of the new "NV5x" that will emerge from this deal, which may be "something completely new"
The press release does make it clear that it'll incorporate next-gen Geforce tech..Redbeard said:
Your Xbox, your GC, your Xbox2s, your Revolution, your PC, your microwave, your toaster..
Duckhuntdog
Member
Gek54 said:
Now now, Shpankey is a well known Xbot from VE. No need to taunt, he's shocked at the announcement and lashing out. It's a natural reaction when one becomes upstaged by Sony.
MS better get that multi-platform XNA initiative moving faster...
*smacks Panajev with a large trout*
Actually I just had flashbacks of reading SPU2 docs for the first time...
Chapter XYZ - Hardware Effects :
1) Reverb
End chapter.
Anyway I doubt there will be a GS in there - it's easier to emulate that somehow like they did for PS1.
As for EE, if they do stick one in there, it will need something to do sound when it runs PS2 games so that theory doesn't quite pan out...hmm...
OMG, the pain... Cannot take it *_*Freeburn said:
Actually I just had flashbacks of reading SPU2 docs for the first time...
Chapter XYZ - Hardware Effects :
1) Reverb
End chapter.
Anyway I doubt there will be a GS in there - it's easier to emulate that somehow like they did for PS1.
As for EE, if they do stick one in there, it will need something to do sound when it runs PS2 games so that theory doesn't quite pan out...hmm...
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Duckhuntdog said:
Let me get this straight....
You resurrected a fairly OT (or at least tangential) flamefest & minor distraction from 3 pages ago just to have a dig at a forum poster and possibly inflame more such reactions?
You suck...
No,
You fucking suck.
Thats all, carry on.
THAT'S the thread? I saw that one, I just thought he was being his usual sarcastic self...Izzy said:
As others have pointed out, Sony's "bastardized graphics solutions" for the earlier Playstation platforms (PS, PS2, PSP) have at least been competitive with alternate graphics solutions available at around the same time, if not exceeded them. And the entire Cell project, from its inception in 2000-01, has been far more ambitious and internally motivated than any competition from MS at the time (not looking like much more of a competitor than Nintendo, from Sony's perspective) would have suggested was warranted.jedimike said:
Duckhuntdog
Member
Ooohhh, I forgot, this is the first step in IBM, Sony, and Nvidia making Cell based PCs. I guess MS is going to learn, don't piss off a major Japanese company, and never backstab your partners.... okay well, they will keep backstabbing partners...
deadhorse32
Bad Art
kaching said:
-MrSingh 11-02-2004
http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=563988&postcount=6
Actually it was an old post but i only read it a few days ago
and dare I say it ? Go PS3
Duckhuntdog
Member
Freeburn said:
I aim to please. Mission accomplished.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
The Devil is in the details.
There's plenty of room for improvement on the visual end of things, and "innovation" will only come as a result of intelligent / creative software design. Gitaroo Man could have been done on the Playstation, but having prettier visuals on the PS2 certainly doesn't harm it.
Areas for improvement:
The ability to display more detailed character models on screen at once. Dynasty Warriors that looks like a battle scene from LotR, instead of only the immediate area being populated with enemies.
Larger, more detailed, more interactive environments. Again, Dynasty Warriors - give me detailed forts, forests, and battle fields. More processing power affords Koei the ability for me to leave a trail of dead Chinamen in my wake. Give me the ability to damage the environment, for the sake of being a destructive force of nature, or for some game play design reason. When I swing my axe in tall grass, I want to see the blades of grass go flying. When the ships are burning in Chi Bi, I want to see smoke, cinders rising in the heat, and amazing fire effects. Etc. There's a ton of room for visual improvement in gaming that will only lead to a richer gaming experience for players. Prohibitive development costs be damned.
Better draw distances and frame rates. Every game should be sixty frames a second, with no pop-up, or shortcuts to accomodate a larger view or densely populated area. Like in San Andreas, when you're on top of a skyscraper. You can look around you and see pretty far off into the distance, but if you look in the streets, they're absent of life. No cars, no pedestrians. It looks like The Omega Man - THERE IS NO PHONE RINGING! More power means the heart of the console can keep the city populated, in addition to sending cops or feds after you in helicopters so I can watch Sea Manky blow them up with a rocket launcher.
There will also be more power afforded to expressionist endeavors, like Wind Waker or Unlimited Saga. For example, perhaps Capcom can finally make a proper 3D Street Fighter that uses cleverly designed polygon models that look like official artwork! That would be some very cool stuff right there and I do hope a developer doesn't miss the opportunity to make it happen.
The greatest "innovation" will be developers creating games which remove a lot of the bullshit restrictions currently imposed on gamers. No more finding A Plaque of Mongoose to open a door. Just chop that bitch down and go to town. That's certainly what makes GTA games so appealing to me. When I play them at Sea Manky's house, I'm not so much interested in beating up hookers or doing drive by shootings; I'm more interested in driving a sports car on that nearby half-pipe.
More console power means more in depth and awesome game experiences. I have no trouble envisioning what can be done better in future generations. Then again, I'm always demanding more of myself and the entertainment outlets I pursue.
I can't wait to see what the PS3 can do. I hope the sight of Dynasty Warriors 5 makes me lose control of my bowels.
The big thing that stands out for me is that cell may not be the answer to everything. And it should be no suprise really, though from the speculation concerning cell over the last year or so, it ought to have cured cancer by now.
Anyway, cell has always been an interesting architecture to me and it will be awesome to see how nvidia IPs are integrated into PS3. It's sounding more and more like Xenon isn't going to gain MS any ground against Sony.
Anyway, cell has always been an interesting architecture to me and it will be awesome to see how nvidia IPs are integrated into PS3. It's sounding more and more like Xenon isn't going to gain MS any ground against Sony.
Take Out Bandit: I agree completely. We are far from the point of hitting a wall for console power.
I'd also like to add A.I. to that list of possible improvements. IMO, that's an area of gaming across virtually all genres that has failed to keep pace with improvements in graphics, sound, etc.
I'd also like to add A.I. to that list of possible improvements. IMO, that's an area of gaming across virtually all genres that has failed to keep pace with improvements in graphics, sound, etc.
Idiot Member
Banned
Microsoft is not in the same position they were in with the xbox.
1. Their next system has to be more cost efficient.
2. They want to get out BEFORE sony.
1. Their next system has to be more cost efficient.
2. They want to get out BEFORE sony.
Eh, I guess I didn't miss anything, because I saw those too. But, again, I interpreted them as sarcasm. When he talked about people being in a "state of euphoria" over scraps of Cell details, I thought he was implying that people were setting themselves up for disappointment.Izzy said:
True, but at the same time, barely anyone knew of the existance of Xbox at that time. People do know about, and are expecting, Xbox2, and I think they are further along with Xbox2 now than they were with Xbox at that time (i.e. they have invested more in it, and there's more to push them to keep to that timetable).m0dus said:
m0dus said:
Sony and cost-effective aren't particularly good friends, especially with new console launches..but this is a custom solution, and not necessarily bleeding edge PC parts.
m0dus said:
Yes, but Sony still has the advantage of extra design time at an architectural level.
m0dus said:
MS's strategy of being first to market this generation is a cornerstone of their strategy this go round. I don't see them abandoning it hastily, particularly if it would necessitate a redesign of key IP in the console.
m0dus said:
After the hilarious situation that was the revelation of the PSP price I don't think anyone is willing to make any assumptions with regard to how aggressive Sony is willing to be with the price of the PS3 at launch.
Idiot Member
Banned
Don't buy all that crap about the hard drive removal.
An 8 gig hard drive can be bought with tissue paper.
Seriously though... you can buy a 20 gig hard drive for 20 bucks... and thats not even buying in bulk numbers...
An 8 gig hard drive can be bought with tissue paper.
Seriously though... you can buy a 20 gig hard drive for 20 bucks... and thats not even buying in bulk numbers...
The dillema they'd be looking at here is that Sony/Nvidia/IBM could very well have the most powerful gaming technology available period. Upping the clock speeds on their processors and adding some ram could very well just not be enough.
Sony was very likely to deliver the most powerful console before they got Nvidia involved. Now the gap has just been widened even further. That gap may well be too far for MS and ATi, or Nintendo and ATi, to try bridging in a last minute push, where they can't dramatically redo the hardware.
I get the distinct feeling that Kutaragi was very serious when he said that he wanted PS3 to be the most powerful console next generation. I also used to think that whole spin on Cell being an all around wonder chip in most electronics devices was bullshit, but this partnership with Nvidia gives Sony a clear inroad to a processing area they didn't have before, PC cards. They already cover entertainment electronics themselves too. Together with IBM they just might have a clear plan on how to sieze the processor market from Intel and AMD. What a turn of events that'd be.
As far as redesigns to the console to up performance: If development of launch software is as far along as we're being lead to believe than the most you're going to hope for is clock rate tweaking. Any significant architectural changes could be disastrous to launch software timetables and availability. The Xbox2 also isn't quite the "PC in a box" that the first Xbox was, so I'm not sure its overall architecture would take as easily to say swapping out the GPU and putting in a new one. Of course, I haven't kept up with Xbox2's tech side at all, so I could be completely wrong.
In other news, I think I'd do a double-take if I ever bought a graphics card for my PC and the box had both the Nvidia and Sony logos on it, with a nice little "Cell" emblem in the corner.
In other news, I think I'd do a double-take if I ever bought a graphics card for my PC and the box had both the Nvidia and Sony logos on it, with a nice little "Cell" emblem in the corner.
Idiot Member
Banned
80 million dollars is pocket change... thats like developing, producing, and advertising 8 games... compared to a huge feature that can be used indefintely by numerous developers. The opportunity cost is very small.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
There are other, good & valid cost reasons for removing the HDD from their next console other than basic unit price.
I would hazard a guess that a good portion of MS's support costs would be saved for one.
(Electro-Mechanical devices are generally known as the weakest link in the tech sector)
I would hazard a guess that a good portion of MS's support costs would be saved for one.
(Electro-Mechanical devices are generally known as the weakest link in the tech sector)
m0dus said:
And how would they close the gap? For all intents and purposes I'd assume the GPU, at the architectural level, for the Xbox2 is complete. With the news saying the Sony/Nvidia part won't even be finished until July/September of next year (though I'd think that's when they'd be churning out 90nm test units) what options will be left by the time anyone knows enough about its performance other than bumping up the clock, throwing a liquid cooling solution in there, and Bill Gates doing a little voodoo?
Idiot Member
Banned
Hard drives are an obvious feature lacking from video game consoles.
It's a step that is needed to continue the advancement of gameplay.
It's probably something that should have started with the original cd based video game systems instead of the idea of the memory card.
It's a step that is needed to continue the advancement of gameplay.
It's probably something that should have started with the original cd based video game systems instead of the idea of the memory card.
The thing is, though, has the Xbox's HD really been utilized all that much? Aside from streamlining load times, storing D/L content, and some custom soundtracks, I don't think more than a few games really depended on it being there (oh, and enabling gamers to not have to buy memory cards, which I'm sure MS is just ecstatic about).Galian Beast said:
When you consider that smaller, interchangable storage devices are dropping in price, there's really very little reason to include an expensive, failure-prone device inside a console for next generation.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Galian Beast said:
Galian Beast said:
No thankyou.
At around the time that the original Playstation was released HDD manufacturers were still quoting MTBF's (Mean Time Between Failure) of 5 years, with a variance of +/-5 years - generally kept quiet for obvious reasons.
I agree that HDD's, or at least fast, mass storage is an obvious need & benefit, but on THOSE drives? No, No thank you, HDD advances have been unassuming & quiet on the "flashbang" front, and absolutely blinding "under the hood"
Idiot Member
Banned
with the coming of online gaming hard drives will be needed A LOT more. I assure you.
Had the PlayStation 2 come equiped the hdd unit you would have seen KOTOR on the system. Actually maybe not considering lucasarts' politics, but you get my point.
Had the PlayStation 2 come equiped the hdd unit you would have seen KOTOR on the system. Actually maybe not considering lucasarts' politics, but you get my point.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Well, that's definitely debatable. I mean, GS in PS2 was definitely an unusual chip. It did some things much better than available PC GPU chips at the time, but it was also screwed up on some of the things that other standard solutions were giving us for granted. The graphics chip in PSP is again definitely at least on par and in *many* ways ahead of any other mobile graphics solutions available now, all the while allowing for an easy development process. In other words, I don't think Sony has some amateurs working on these graphics chips, like some people would like to believe.
On the other hand, if they saw that they couldn't best or even match what nVidia was able to give them, or if they were able to strike some kind of deal where nVidia would develop a GPU based on Cell technology, more power to all of them. It's better to be smart than to be proud when it comes to business.
Idiot Member
Banned
The playstation launcehd in 1995 in north america... +/- 5 years would have put it around the time of 2000, so if you got a ps1 at launch and it survived intact not withstanding the hdd you would have only needed to buy a new ps1 for like 100 bucks... not including the price of the hdd itself ofcourse.
The PS2 also would have already been coming out...
The PS2 also would have already been coming out...
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Try your math again, a MTBF of 5 years sets the average length of time for it to last.
A variance of +/- 5 years on that 5 year MTBF figure puts the effective average life of a HDD at anything from 1 day to 10 years.
Seriously...
A variance of +/- 5 years on that 5 year MTBF figure puts the effective average life of a HDD at anything from 1 day to 10 years.
Seriously...