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NYPD is at it again: Mom Arrested After Asking Police to Talk to Young Son
- Thread starter jamesinclair
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I'm not going down any "route". Jesus.
Has it really come to the point where if I think generalizing is dumb that it makes me the asshole
whatever, I'm not going step any further into this bog
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
That's probably why he passed
Hari Seldon
Member
It really is the feudal system returned. Cops are paid thugs who only enforce laws on the peasants and harass with impunity.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I can say from experience that we have "bad cops" in Australia, fuck me it's nowhere near this level of bullshit we read about American cops. What the fuck is wrong with the system over there that lets these fucking idiots through?
When you have 40,000 police, impossible that a few bad ones (few?!) get through.
The whole thing is ridiculous.
Eric the Red
Member
Oh I get it, she endangered her kids by intentionally bringing a violent belligerent racist to talk to her kids. Now they're emotionally scarred. The police had no choice but to charge her with child endangerment for exposing them to the police.
Nah the issue is also the system that enables this too, not just the fact that it's impossible to not have some bad cops hired. Why does this cop get to do whatever he wants? If 99% of them are upstanding, why aren't they standing up against this? She had to fight this for 4 months. It's police culture and the system that need to change.
Nah the issue is also the system that enables this too, not just the fact that it's impossible to not have some bad cops hired. Why does this cop get to do whatever he wants? If 99% of them are upstanding, why aren't they standing up against this? She had to fight this for 4 months. It's police culture and the system that need to change.
Every single time we try to discuss the reprehensible actions of police officers or try to criticize the institution that employs them, select posters try to grind the topic to a halt because "not all cops" are responsible for the actions of others, and while I agree, it's ultimately irrelevant. If all you have to say is "not all cops" you aren't bringing anything of merit into the discussion.
It's a shame how actual good cops are usually punished for doing the right thing.
theignoramus
Member
The more stories I read about thuggish and abusive cop behaviour directed at blacks, hispanics or poor whites, the more Im convinced the "system" is fundamentally working the way it was set up to work. American police are as much about enforcing the social status quo (with blacks and hispanics as second class citizens) as they are about crime prevention. Im not saying there is a directive to go out and kick minorities heads in, but its the logical consequence of public policies that target groups that dont have the political clout to seriously fight back.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Using 911 was probably not the best idea, but she had the best intentions, in trying to show that the police aren't all bad. And she got absolutely fucked over anyway.
Nailed it.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Sounds like one dumbass ruining it for everyone. The rest of the cops seemed pretty happy to entertain the mother's request.
Chie Satonaka
Member
The system changes when "good cops" take a stand.
If there was as many "good cops" as people keep pretending there are, and all of them decided enough was enough, policing in the United States would change almost instantly. It wouldn't even require all the protesting and everything else that has proven ineffective so far.
And yet, that hasn't happened. Either there aren't as many good cops as people keep telling me there are, despite being in the overwhelming majority according to some folks, or ...
Edit:
You've just taken your first steps into a larger world.
There was an article about this very topic after the Garner grand jury decided not to prosecute. Short answer is: you're absolutely right.
They also seemed pretty happy to stand around and do nothing while their colleague was abusing her.
Guys this is a lawsuit. Though I can't imagine a scenario that would make arresting the mother make sense, you have to take a lot of what is said with a grain of salt. In lawsuits there is a lot of pressure to make things seem worse than they were. I'm obviously not saying she's lying about the core of what happened, just don't take her every word as gospel. Really hope the thread keeps updated though. I can't wait to hear the officers' side of it.
I agree that they should have stepped in, but "not fighting the bad ones makes you a bad one" is a pretty dangerous line of thinking that's often been used to harass various groups, from feminists to Muslims to gay people.
Because an ideology, a religion, and a sexuality are certainly the equivalent of a state regulated organization.
People telling you there are good cops are saying it from their perspective. Inherently, this perspective is blocking them from the perspective this mother and others consistently experience. Its so frustrating to see that while you can say "But my friend is a cop and hes good! So not literally every single one is bad!" in the face of the data pointing out the large nation wide problem, that same person can't admit that the system needs a fix. Which shouldn't be a problem for good cops.
Charles barkley doesn't think theres anything to it as well. As he never has the encounters that others describe. In his mansion, in Tempe Arizona... But we need everyone on the same page, as browns don't have enough political clout to change things. Getting everyone on the same page is what the government has rendered impossible through media and laws. But communication between people is creating that conversation. Its a shame it takes so many mistreated/killed people to do it. But we are seeing salt and pepper crowds protesting this shit. The pressure will hopefully continue to mount. And more importantly, with all of the facts coming out, people can no longer double down on their bias/lack of acknowledgement, without some serious mental gymnastics.
What an odd remark considering he never insinuated that they were the same.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Well I mean this how the American police force has always been.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
You must have missed the last part of his post. Here, I'll quote it for you so you don't have to scroll up:
victreeb3l
Member
Pay this woman.
I love how the other cops didnt do shit. That blue wall of silence sure is great that it allows shit like this to happen.
I love how the other cops didnt do shit. That blue wall of silence sure is great that it allows shit like this to happen.
He certainly insinuated they have the same, or at least comparable, level of culpability for the actions of those in their ranks.
Which is a stupid notion.
Shamrock7r
Member
Even without hearing the NYPD's account, I can't imagine any logical scenario from them, where there would be some radical escalation that resulted in the mother justifiably needing to be arrested and the children being taken away for 4 months. There would have to be some HUGE chunk of the story being left out.
I didn't care to respond before but you clearly stated the news agency should've gotten the police officers side and you double downed after someone mentioned they were asked. I don't know if you just missed it in the article itself but missing the comment of someone in this thread is stubborn.
Please stop devaluing this discussion.
This is a problem in of itself. You pretty much have to be the police chief or your chance for advancement and overtime opportunities becomes more limited.
I sort of get why cops who might want to uphold their coworkers to higher standards don't want to risk it but don't they have enough available resources from DAs and IA to deal with this?
He's saying that the argument is comparable, not that the subjects were the same. I dislike when people dismiss the points of a discussion because they don't enjoy the comparisons. It's right up there with the slippery slope and taking logical inferences to their illogical extreme. But I'm not trying to derail the thread with an argument on semantics, so I will just drop my complaint.
NobleGundam
Banned
So where's the department's side of the story???
Uhh lol. It's their duty to uphold the law, and not meekly stand around while their knuckle dragging pal abuses his authority.
Please do tell me the authorities vested in a feminist and the responsibilities expected of them. Should they fail in these responsibilities, by what process are their authorities revoked? And by what governing body?
Can't tell me any of these? Then no, it's not fucking comparable.
SanguineShark
Member
What the fuck, why didn't the other cops do anything? It's not enough to just tell him "we're not supposed to act this way", DO something about it.
I wanted to be a cop for such a long time in order to help people, but I've become so disillusioned with them in this country.
Do "good" officers simply not last a long time on the force? Are they shunned by the majority for trying to speak up? I refuse to believe a good portion of them are like this, but, why do the others not report these fuckers? This needs to change, this all needs to fucking change.
I wanted to be a cop for such a long time in order to help people, but I've become so disillusioned with them in this country.
Do "good" officers simply not last a long time on the force? Are they shunned by the majority for trying to speak up? I refuse to believe a good portion of them are like this, but, why do the others not report these fuckers? This needs to change, this all needs to fucking change.
It looks like we won't get it until we see what they say during the proceedings. "Unable to comment because of ongoing investigation/litigation" really is a wonderful copout.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I would say fear of retaliation for speaking up against your fellow "brothers."
You would think that if the cops that spoke up got fired for some made up shit that the news would still be littered with interviews with former officers giving their stories. So that's probably not what's happening.
If you really want to know; give this a listen.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/right-to-remain-silent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft#Disclosure
This is what happens to good cops that try to be, good. And its a message for the rest.
Since this is a frequent go to put down argument for Black people saying the police are fine I'll just point out I'm not rich.
I definitely see a problem because I don't bury my head in the sand when faced with damning evidence. While the statistical probability isn't great it isn't implausible for someone to rarely have problems with the police even if they are brown.
Most don't get fired. They simply stop advancing and getting opportunities.
One last thing I'd like to append to my last post:
If you want to look like the bigger man by refusing to continue to argue, refuse to continue to argue.
Continuing to argue but then ending your argument with a declaration that you're not going to argue anymore doesn't make you look like the bigger man, it makes you look like a five year old with their eyes closed and hands over their ears.
If you want to look like the bigger man by refusing to continue to argue, refuse to continue to argue.
Continuing to argue but then ending your argument with a declaration that you're not going to argue anymore doesn't make you look like the bigger man, it makes you look like a five year old with their eyes closed and hands over their ears.
Who cares if its not implausible? The data is specific. The trend is specific. Pointing out that there is an exception to it, is what the data sort of presents as its not 100% instances of all things, ever. We are then left with the same horrible outcome that is severely targeted towards brown people, and I guess a benefit is that someone can rest better knowing that data doesn't mean everything and everyone, to someone?
My father is a Judge/Ret.Detective. Hes brown, and he has the same view on police currently. His view is that nothing changed, things just went in hiding for politics, but people are still the same folks that wouldn't work with him, and now they are judges and lawyers/chiefs/gov..etc. This isn't to say that its impossible for a brown person to have a great time with PD, its just as you said it, not most likely the scenario. My point about barkley is that he allows his perspective to block out other perspectives. He considers his perspective to be the statistical probability. He then speaks to the statistical data-driven issue, with his perspective. That provides nothing but an opinion from someone who isn't familiar with the issue, but others wanting to support the issue, take the side of barkley and ignore the data. Barkley aside, this is a problem with people and social interactions. Now faced with the data, its going to be harder and harder to work your opinion around it.
If you don't bury your head in the sand, you're a good human being, and thank you for that. I appreciate that.
But, no, I see no value in taking the rare occasions and upholding them as a bar for measurement, not with the data. They are in the minority, and have no significant value towards change or progress. Unless its people that are understanding that while their experiences are one way, its differing for a significant % of the population.
You're absolutely right. I should have just given my view and let you retort instead of just trying to end the argument. I was genuinely trying to prevent a derail, but I went about it in the wrong way. What I did was disrespectful to you and I apologise sincerely.
I appreciate it. I'll gear my invective down a notch in our inevitable future butting of heads with this post in mind. At first at least.
HiredN00bs
Member
I think it's important to remember that there are dedicated, moral, ethical police officers that put their lives on the line every day. We don't have threads about them, typically. It's important to recognize the root cause behind these types of stories: ingrained cultural ignorance, prejudice, and a stunning deficiency of empathy. Reform is welcome; grouping good people in with this is not.
I'm responding more to the "fuck the police" mentality. Indeed, fuck police doing immoral and unethical things. In many places, the whole organization could be rotten. But you can't tell me with a straight face you think most cops in America aren't good people. I feel like people are creating false perceptions of reality, much like they do with Muslims. There are a smaller set of egregious examples of evil, there is a larger set of cops with ingrained problematic and deplorable cultural practices, and there are outdated, flawed, misguided, and malicious parts of code and law that drive bad behavior and bad results all over.
Oh yeah, I agree. Avoiding confrontation was cowardly, but doesn't make them as bad as the abusive cop.
It makes them worse, as they are technically, and realistically, the only people with the power to do anything about their image, and police abuse. While we citizens can strive for change through political means, they are watching it happen and not lifting a finger.
So yes I agree, abusive cop is 100% bad, and they are 90% bad for doing nothing. I think that's fair. What % would you attribute..?
edit 95%?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I could only imagine how awkward the female officer felt after her colleague and maybe even her friend said that, I bet she felt embarrassed to be associated with a racist.,
That's a pretty damn low bar to clear.
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