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Obama's pastor: "God Damn America"

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Kittonwy said:
He can and will take the high road, let the media do all the dirty work for now and see how much damage this will do to Obama's campaign, rest assured this footage of the pastor will be deployed by McCain when the time is right. He's not going to make himself look like he's jumping on this the first chance he gets.
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Wait....aren't you contradicting yourself saying he is and will take the high road and yet also saying he will deploy this footage later on?:P
 
speculawyer said:
It is a little known fact that although Pat Roberton & Jerry Falwell (and others like them) have largely been ignored by Americans, their comments often got big play in the Islamic world. When Jerry Falwell called Mohammed a 'terrorist' there were riots in India that killed 8 people.

In the same way that so many Americans judge Muslims by the way Osama behaves, many Muslims judge us by the way Robertson, Hagee, Parsley, and other Bible-thumpers behave. :-(
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That's mainly why I support anyone with the balls to actually put a critical eye on what we ourselves our doing as a country. The way these guys act towards muslims is certainly not Christian in the sense that I got from the bible. The bible is all about leading by example, not force. Plus judging others is a major no no. God is the only one that's supposed to judge. Fucking lot of hypocrites. Mainly why I stopped going to church. Great book good ideals horrible execution.
 
Ripclawe said:
No they do not, Muslim hardliners have rioted and killed over cartoons and will riot over a dutch short film. Many Muslims are not that stupid to riot or judge Americans via Robertson or Hagee who most Americans never heard of in the first place.
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I'm not following what you are trying to say. Oh wait . . . you are drawing a line between hardliners and 'many muslims'? I can see that.

But my point is that Al Jazeera and other Arab/Muslim world stations will often pick up crazy crap said by American clerics and do news stories about it. Like the old TV news addage "if it bleeds, it leads" hate speech also gets ratings.
 
speculawyer said:
I'm not following what you are trying to say. Oh wait . . . you are drawing a line between hardliners and 'many muslims'? I can see that.

But my point is that Al Jazeera and other Arab/Muslim world stations will often pick up crazy crap said by American clerics and do news stories about it. Like the old TV news addage "if it bleeds, it leads" hate speech also gets ratings.
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In other words the same thing FOX does.
 
Tamanon said:
Wait....aren't you contradicting yourself saying he is and will take the high road and yet also saying he will deploy this footage later on?:P
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He's going to take the high road and let the right wing media swiftboat Obama with it, while McCain sits on the sideline and shrugs his shoulders. This is something that he CAN use but I don't think he would NEED to use since others will do it for him without him getting involved.
Indifferent2.gif
 
speculawyer said:
So if it is in the Bible . . . that means it is right?
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It's all in the context baby. Haggie was saying that Catholics believe and perform in false religion.

In the bible it states that false religions are a harlot/whore. So in that context Haggie has the open right to say was he said.

But of course it wasn't good for McCain to publically take this guys endorsement.
 
AmishNazi said:
The way these guys act towards muslims is certainly not Christian in the sense that I got from the bible. The bible is all about leading by example, not force. Plus judging others is a major no no. God is the only one that's supposed to judge. Fucking lot of hypocrites. Mainly why I stopped going to church. Great book good ideals horrible execution.
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Yeah, the Jesus I was taught about is very different than the Jesus the Christian-right seems to worship. I was told Jesus was the "Prince of peace", you should 'turn the other cheek', 'love your enemy', help the poor, etc. The Christian-right Jesus is the one from Revelations where he's got the big sword sticking out of his mouth and he's all about killing.
 
speculawyer said:
It is a little known fact that although Pat Roberton & Jerry Falwell (and others like them) have largely been ignored by Americans, their comments often got big play in the Islamic world. When Jerry Falwell called Mohammed a 'terrorist' there were riots in India that killed 8 people.

In the same way that so many Americans judge Muslims by the way Osama behaves, many Muslims judge us by the way Robertson, Hagee, Parsley, and other Bible-thumpers behave. :-(
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Did you just equate a mass-murderer with guys who say some crazy things, but as far as I know, have never murdered anybody?
 
mckmas8808 said:
It's all in the context baby. Haggie was saying that Catholics believe and perform in false religion.

In the bible it states that false religions are a harlot/whore. So in that context Haggie has the open right to say was he said.
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So it is not true at all then . . . just "true" if you have opinion that the Catholic church is a false religion. And I guess it would also be "true" if the Pope said Hagee's church is a great whore if he feels that Hagee's church is a false religion (It isn't catholic.)

This is the problem with religion . . . it is inherently devisive. Everyone who believes in some religion basically thinks all the people from other religions are apostates that will burn in hell.

And ironically, it is the Atheists who are the most hated group . . . and all they believe is that everyone just dies and that's it. They don't think anyone is going to hell . . . but they are the most hated. Go Figure.
 
Branduil said:
Did you just equate a mass-murderer with guys who say some crazy things, but as far as I know, have never murdered anybody?
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To be perfectly fair, Osama was the one to direct people to kill, not the one who did it. At least in everything I've seen.

And no I'm not saying they're the same either, just pointing out that both are mouthpieces of hatred, Osama much worse.
 
I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of his drug and alcohol abuse. Guess that will come in the general. We got a lot of stuff about GW in his first run (DWI, coke abuse, etc).
 
Branduil said:
Did you just equate a mass-murderer with guys who say some crazy things, but as far as I know, have never murdered anybody?
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No. And I'd appreciate it if you didn't draw such false conclusions.

My point is that some people on the other side of some great religious tend to judge people by the worst of the other people.
 
Rorschach said:
I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of his drug and alcohol abuse. Guess that will come in the general. We got a lot of stuff about GW in his first run (DWI, coke abuse, etc).
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That'll probably come up in the general. All there's been was the NYT running a story that he made up his drug use.:lol
 
Branduil said:
Did you just equate a mass-murderer with guys who say some crazy things, but as far as I know, have never murdered anybody?
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These evangelical shit-heads are born from the same filthy end of the gene pool. There's no need to differentiate the kinds of shit they are. They're all mouthpieces of festering ignorance and hatred, unfit for the civilizations that tolerate them and enabled by people more stupid than they.
 
speculawyer said:
So it is not true at all then . . . just "true" if you have opinion that the Catholic church is a false religion. And I guess it would also be "true" if the Pope said Hagee's church is a great whore if he feels that Hagee's church is a false religion (It isn't catholic.)

This is the problem with religion . . . it is inherently devisive. Everyone who believes in some religion basically thinks all the people fom other religions are apostates that will burn in hell.

And ironically, it is the Atheists who are the most hated group . . . and all they believe is that everyone just dies and that's it. They don't think anyone is going to hell . . . but they are the most hated. Go Figure.
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What I bolded is true. You have now come to a correct conclusion in the words that I bolded. But at least you totally understand where Haggie was coming from.


But your talk about religion being devisive. Why shouldn't it be? If the Bible talks about a certain standard of things being wrong and certain people do it of course it will be looked down upon.

But what shouldn't happen is people going around judging people and thinking they are scum. And no I'm a Christian and I don't think bad people will burn in hell.
 
Tamanon said:
That'll probably come up in the general. All there's been was the NYT running a story that he made up his drug use.:lol
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Made it up? Like the guy with the 'million little pieces' book that made things up to make his book more dramatic?
 
8 years ago, I had a friend who turned to drug-dealing. I went the other direction. I have not been friends with him for many years, but if I ever run for president, it's really sad that my past friendship would prompt Hannity to demand my resignation as senator.
 
Branduil said:
Did you just equate a mass-murderer with guys who say some crazy things, but as far as I know, have never murdered anybody?
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Osama evidently never flew the planes himself, he was alive and well in Afghanistan long after...

Of course -- his preaching of violence and hate, and his financing -- that was certainly the critical component needed to realize the mass murder that occurred on 9/11 (and before it with the embassies and also the cole) -- but I think what the poster you quoted is saying, is that hate towards America is inflamed by America's own misguided hate and fearmongering.

We don't need bible thumpers spreading distrust and hate. They're really not any better.

Some in the Muslim world see a predominantly christian country, allied strongly with zionism, helping to spread the prejudice, persecution and even murder of their 'brothers' in other countries. Now, thats their perception. Is that perception really any more wrong than the perception of some of the idiots we now have here in the west, who since 9/11 have decided that all Muslims are dangerous terrorists? Are they any worse than these TV anchors, pundits and evangelicals who seem to use the words Muslim and Islam like dirty words? Lets face it, stuff like that is happening, it became an issue for Barack Obama with those stupid circulating emails.

And the same way we are outraged when we see death celebrated on the streets with gunfire, the poster you quoted is just pointing out an instance where people elsewhere in the world were disgusted by us, and had their negative opinions reinforced by us. By those jackasses on TV.

Atrus said:
These evangelical shit-heads are born from the same filthy end of the gene pool. There's no need to differentiate the kinds of shit they are. They're all mouthpieces of festering ignorance and hatred, unfit for the civilizations that tolerate them and enabled by people more stupid than they.
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A-fucking-men
 
God, things are looking horrible for his campaign right now. Rezko and his pastor, they keep boomeranging back to him every couple of days, it's harsh. He brings some of it on himself though, we all know his denial of being in the church at the time of controversial sermons is going to come back and bite him in the ass.
 
Obama, should have gotten bold and said. I don't agree with him, BUT, I understand this man and his plight. I have had many conversation with him and his struggle to move from the past to the future. It has been a relationship of give and take, he gives me his relationship with the past and I try to shape his future, because he and I are in a different world.

This man has grown up with tuskegee and the poor black man being a liability and or expendable by going to vietnam and he served as a US Marine in that war. So he has a lot of resentment and its been a constant struggle for me coming from my background and trying to show someone who is emotionally scarred by this country that their is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I will not denounce him or reject him, I will continue my love of him and show him that America has extended its hand in this 11th hour and I keep pressing showing him the olive branch. Unfortunately for him he's mortally wounded and requires the hands on and the love of his country that he gave when he had nothing. Its unfortunate he was a patriot and his patriotism did nothing for him, so I'm trying to light a fire that has long be lost.

Now isn't that some good shit right there and its believable.
 
mckmas8808 said:
What I bolded is true. You have now come to a correct conclusion in the words that I bolded. But at least you totally understand where Haggie was coming from.
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I understand . . . and I fully defend his right to say it. But I think it is just stupid. It just isn't the type of thing people should say in public. As I pointed out, basically every religious person thinks all the other people are going to hell. But usually, people are decent enough not to walk around saying it. Live & let live.

mckmas8808 said:
But your talk about religion being devisive. Why shouldn't it be?
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I doesn't really matter what I think . . . it just is devisive. And I think

mckmas8808 said:
If the Bible talks about a certain standard of things being wrong and certain people do it of course it will be looked down upon.

But what shouldn't happen is people going around judging people and thinking they are scum.
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Well, it is hard to blame people for what they think. But if they act on it in some way or try to enforce their beliefs on others, it is totally wrong. I don't like it but I can accept it if people hate gays/jews/muslims/etc . . . but when they use the power of the state to enforce their hate that is where I draw the line.

mckmas8808 said:
And no I'm a Christian and I don't think bad people will burn in hell.
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Why not? It seems to be part of the faith. Many people view things the same way as you but I don't really understand how. Is it just cherry picking thing things you like?
 
gluv65 said:
Obama, should have gotten bold and said. I don't agree with him, BUT, I understand this man and his plight. I have had many conversation with him and his struggle to move from the past to the future. It has been a relationship of give and take, he gives me his relationship with the past and I try to shape his future, because he are in a different world.

This man has grown up with tuskegee and the poor black man being a liability and or expendable by going to vietnam and he served as a US Marine in that war. So he has a lot of resentment and its been a constant struggle for me coming from my background and trying to show someone who is emotionally scarred by this country that their is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I will not denounce him or reject him, I will continue my love of him and show him that America has extended its hand in this 11th hour and I keep pressing showing him the olive branch. Unfortunately for him he's mortally wounded and requires the hands on and the love of his country that he gave when he had nothing. Its unfortunate he was a patriot and his patriotism did nothing for him, so I'm trying to light a fire that has long be lost.

Now isn't that some good shit right there and its believable.
Click to expand...

He more or less said this today on CNN.

And Bill O' Reilly just said that the media is still TOTALLY in the tank for Obama and aren't covering this news enough. Hmmmm......like wut?
 
gluv65 said:
Obama, should have gotten bold and said. I don't agree with him, BUT, I understand this man and his plight. I have had many conversation with him and his struggle to move from the past to the future. It has been a relationship of give and take, he gives me his relationship with the past and I try to shape his future, because he are in a different world.

This man has grown up with tuskegee and the poor black man being a liability and or expendable by going to vietnam and he served as a US Marine in that war. So he has a lot of resentment and its been a constant struggle for me coming from my background and trying to show someone who is emotionally scarred by this country that their is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I will not denounce him or reject him, I will continue my love of him and show him that America has extended its hand in this 11th hour and I keep pressing showing him the olive branch. Unfortunately for him he's mortally wounded and requires the hands on and the love of his country that he gave when he had nothing. Its unfortunate he was a patriot and his patriotism did nothing for him, so I'm trying to light a fire that has long be lost.

Now isn't that some good shit right there and its believable.
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That is some good writing. Hell . . . McCain could use the similar language about Hagee & Parsley and my respect for McCain would go way up.
 
mckmas8808 said:
He more or less said this today on CNN.

And Bill O' Reilly just said that the media is still TOTALLY in the tank for Obama and aren't covering this news enough. Hmmmm......like wut?
Click to expand...

No Barack was trying to be to eloquent instead of deliberate. He didn't deliver a matter of fact statement. And in know way did he offer the olive branch to show america I'm trying to bring Rev Wright from the past to the future and in that process I fell in love with him not in a man and woman way but as a uncle nephew way. And, yes I have heard him speak like this on occassion and it triggers heart felt feelings for him and fortunately he hasn't acted out on them.
 
speculawyer said:
But usually, people are decent enough not to walk around saying it. Live & let live.

Why not? It seems to be part of the faith. Many people view things the same way as you but I don't really understand how. Is it just cherry picking thing things you like?
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To be fair to some christian preachers here. The bible does say that if you don't warn the people what they are doing is wrong, then you have blood guilt of your hands.

It's wrong for a person with Christian knowledge to not dispense their knowledge to fellow non-believers or believers that are living an incorrect (in the context of bible truths) lifestyle.

And about hell....I believe in one just not the traditional firey pitt hell where Satan cooks the wicked forever while cooking 2 hot dogs and drinking lemonade.
 
Agreed on the comments that Obama shouldn't have pussed-out, but note that part of his shtick is trying to please everyone at once. A commenter above made a parallel to a friend of his that was a drug dealer; in that analogy, wouldn't it be 100x better if he said something along the lines of "hey he's my friend and I knew what he was doing was wrong, but I loved him like a brother and thought maybe I could convince him off of that destructive path..." that's something almost everyone can at least empathize with if not identify.


Then there's stuff like this:
NYTimes said:
Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”

According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
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I'm incredulous that the only reason Obama would say this is because he was alerted to it by a Rolling Stone article; the bolded part heavily implies knowledge borne of personal experience.
 
gluv65 said:
Obama, should have gotten bold and said. I don't agree with him, BUT, I understand this man and his plight. I have had many conversation with him and his struggle to move from the past to the future. It has been a relationship of give and take, he gives me his relationship with the past and I try to shape his future, because he and I are in a different world.

This man has grown up with tuskegee and the poor black man being a liability and or expendable by going to vietnam and he served as a US Marine in that war. So he has a lot of resentment and its been a constant struggle for me coming from my background and trying to show someone who is emotionally scarred by this country that their is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I will not denounce him or reject him, I will continue my love of him and show him that America has extended its hand in this 11th hour and I keep pressing showing him the olive branch. Unfortunately for him he's mortally wounded and requires the hands on and the love of his country that he gave when he had nothing. Its unfortunate he was a patriot and his patriotism did nothing for him, so I'm trying to light a fire that has long be lost.

Now isn't that some good shit right there and its believable.
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This is essentially what he said on Anderson Cooper 360.
 
Lv99 Slacker said:
This is essentially what he said on Anderson Cooper 360.
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essentially, is not clear he was not forthright and or definitive again he was trying to be politically correct and calculating instead of being human.
 
gluv65 said:
No Barack was trying to be to eloquent instead of deliberate. He didn't deliver a matter of fact statement. And in know way did he offer the olive branch to show america I'm trying to bring Rev Wright from the past to the future and in that process I fell in love with him not in a man and woman way but as a uncle nephew way. And, yes I have heard him speak like this on occassion and it triggers heart felt feelings for him and fortunately he hasn't acted out on them.
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You still can't expect the right wing/Fox News to make this clear though. Obama's been hit hard these last few weeks. If he can weather the storm, he'll be able to go all the way though. I'm sure McCain is having a grand old time compared to Barack right now.

The new preacher is pretty pathetic. He doesn't have a back bone. He won't distance himself from the comments nor will he come out and say he's solidly behind them. He just danced around the questions. It's pretty obvious he doesn't want to upset the church members by disavowing the previous minister. Credibility = 0. Obama needs to find a better church. Period.
 
APF said:
Agreed on the comments that Obama shouldn't have pussed-out, but note that part of his shtick is trying to please everyone at once. A commenter above made a parallel to a friend of his that was a drug dealer; in that analogy, wouldn't it be 100x better if he said something along the lines of "hey he's my friend and I knew what he was doing was wrong, but I loved him like a brother and thought maybe I could convince him off of that destructive path..." that's something almost everyone can at least empathize with if not identify.


Then there's stuff like this:

I'm incredulous that the only reason Obama would say this is because he was alerted to it by a Rolling Stone article; the bolded part heavily implies knowledge borne of personal experience.
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He did say something like that though. When asked tonight if he denounced the man, that was basically his answer. Just not in your exact words.

And perhaps Obama was shown or heard a couple of the bad stuff before he started running for President. Maybe that's what he was talking about.
 
gluv65 said:
essentially, is not clear he was not forthright and or definitive again he was trying to be politically correct and calculating instead of being human.
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What I meant by essentially is that he may not have said what you typed out word for word, but by large it is the same message.
 
mckmas8808 said:
To be fair to some christian preachers here. The bible does say that if you don't warn the people what they are doing is wrong, then you have blood guilt of your hands.

It's wrong for a person with Christian knowledge to not dispense their knowledge to fellow non-believers or believers that are living an incorrect (in the context of bible truths) lifestyle.
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I can understand & appreciate that. But I think it should be a helping/sympathetic way. I can understand preachers that want to convert muslims/jews/etc. But yeah, it is the judging, hatred, and wanting to destroy that is just all wrong.

mckmas8808 said:
And about hell....I believe in one just not the traditional firey pitt hell where Satan cooks the wicked forever while cooking 2 hot dogs and drinking lemonade.
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:lol Nice visual . . . hmmm . . . I think I'm gonna have a hot dog.
 
APF said:
I'm incredulous that the only reason Obama would say this is because he was alerted to it by a Rolling Stone article; the bolded part heavily implies knowledge borne of personal experience.
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Yep...this is an impending shitstorm.

Were these films just "outed" yesterday or something?
 
maximum360 said:
You still can't expect the right wing/Fox News to make this clear though. Obama's been hit hard these last few weeks. If he can weather the storm, he'll be able to go all the way though. I'm sure McCain is having a grand old time compared to Barack right now.

The new preacher is pretty pathetic. He doesn't have a back bone. He won't distance himself from the comments nor will he come out and say he's solidly behind them. He just danced around the questions. It's pretty obvious he doesn't want to upset the church members by disavowing the previous minister. Credibility = 0. Obama needs to find a better church. Period.
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You damn right, he would have garnered more respect. Here are things in his favor

1. Wright a U.S. Marine, he's not a patriot in name and or words he's a patriot by action, by far more than any right wing pundit could care to dream of. With Wright serving in Nam it bold well for him when he speaks out about its ills, its not from some citizen disillusioned, he live it.

2. The olive branch, Barack world is different from J. Wrights world of disenfranchisement, and distrust. So he can offer a different perspective.

3. Barack showing loyalty and trying to integrate this disenfranchised "American hero" into a "New America" lends itself to uniting
 
gluv65 said:
essentially, is not clear he was not forthright and or definitive again he was trying to be politically correct and calculating instead of being human.
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You mean he didn't reject or denounce. People are just not used to a man who doesn't turn in to a raving lunatic and starts grandstanding when he answers these charges. I want someone with that type of temperament in the White House.
 
gluv65 said:
You damn right, he would have garnered more respect. Here are things in his favor

1. Wright a U.S. Marine, he's not a patriot in name and or words he's a patriot by action, by far more than any right wing pundit could care to dream of. With Wright serving in Nam it bold well for him when he speaks out about its ills, its not from some citizen disillusioned, he live it.

2. The olive branch, Barack world is different from J. Wrights world of disenfranchisement, and distrust. So he can offer a different perspective.

3. Barack showing loyalty and trying to integrate this disenfranchised "American hero" into a "New America" lends itself to uniting
Click to expand...

Damn, you should be on his staff of advisors. :lol
 
The way that he's cut all ties with the man he named a freaking book over really disappoints me. I thought I understood Obama's standing with Wright as an "Uncle" but it seems I was wrong and was just projecting on him my relationship with my (Ex)step-father. He had a chance to take a principled stance and stand up against the demonization of someone who's obviously been close to him. And for what? Has it stopped people from attacking him? To me, this shows bad judgment on his part.

This Youtube video he just put out, he's just trying too hard.
 
siamesedreamer said:
The fact that Wright is retiring has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Its odd he would start off by saying that.
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It's the reason why he didn't leave the church last year. That's the point.
 
I understand why he did it, don't get me wrong. It's just I was always impressed with how open he was to criticism as to allow people to automatically post, especially with the juxtaposition of how the Clinton camp handles their Youtube channel. Lately he's tightened down a lot, some videos don't (Or didn't when posted) allow any comments at all.
 
Oh man. Oh shit.

This is bad. This is terrible. This is, perhaps, a sign of the end times...

I mean, kittonwy posting on the OT?

Something must be done.
 
typhonsentra said:
The way that he's cut all ties with the man he named a freaking book over really disappoints me. I thought I understood Obama's standing with Wright as an "Uncle" but it seems I was wrong and was just projecting on him my relationship with my (Ex)step-father. He had a chance to take a principled stance and stand up against the demonization of someone who's obviously been close to him. And for what? Has it stopped people from attacking him? To me, this shows bad judgment on his part.

This Youtube video he just put out, he's just trying too hard.
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No, he's taking the appropriate approach. Sets everything straight, explains why he didn't leave the church, etc.
 
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