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Obama's pastor: "God Damn America"

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While I find comments like that ("where would you be w/o slavery) to be quite distasteful taken by itself, I thought it to be questioning where you would be rhetorically since you appeared to be falling back on historical racism as a defense against any criticism.
 
Tamanon said:
He has denounced him. Several times in fact. I honestly have no clue why this is coming up now......or do I?:P
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Actually he hasn't really denounced the guy. But eh, it's GAF and I'm not gonna waste my breath... I'll vote for change, hope, and higher taxes.
 
APF said:
While I find comments like that ("where would you be w/o slavery) to be quite distasteful taken by itself, I thought it to be questioning where you would be rhetorically since you appeared to be falling back on historical racism as a defense against any criticism.
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So then you agree that interpretation of those words could mean that it could be both a hateful thing to say and a rational thing to say:P
 
soul creator said:
it is somewhat annoying that people are trying to demonize Obama for something another black person said, something that while over the top, (and inaccurate in some ways) was hardly the second coming of "Hitler" as others seem to imply. And if Obama says he disagrees with some of the things his pastor has said, that's not enough. Obama has to somehow prove he's not a secret black panther operative that will take over the white house and create a constitutional amendment to enslave white people. Or something.

So therefore Obama must completely disown a church that he largely joined due to his community organizer background (even though I'm an atheist, I recognize that churches have always played a big role in different communities). All because the pastor essentially reminded people of negative things the US government has done, and poked fun at the the blindly patriotic versions of the "God Bless America" phrase that gets thrown around.

Wright is a black man who grew up during the civil rights struggle, doesn't think America is the perfect country, doesn't agree with all of the US Government's actions, and isn't blindly patriotic. shock and awe. And clearly he hates America, which is why he served in the Navy, and realizes that there is some "hope" for this country to do better than it has throughout its history.

And even better, if Obama merely tries to respond to the media digging up old sermons that try to paint him as some "militant" candidate, then clearly, he's bringing race into it, and obviously isn't the post-racial candidate he paints himself as! We knew it! You can't fool us Obama!

*sigh*
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I agree pretty much entirely. I will only add that the people Obama would need to prove himself to are the same people looking for any perceived fuck-up to fall back into their normal mindset. This is why I re-quoted Guileless a little earlier, since he laid out the rules pretty clearly.
 
Lefty42o said:
did i say anyone was blaming me for being black?
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"if you want to blame me for being black [...]"


Tamanon: again I don't understand your point, but it seems as though you're agreeing with me but phrasing that agreement in such a way that it also forms an attack.
 
LittleTokyo said:
Actually he hasn't really denounced the guy. But eh, it's GAF and I'm not gonna waste my breath... I'll vote for change, hope, and higher taxes.
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in the same wane, hillary did not denounce her husband for having sexual relations with a woman.
 
APF said:
While I find comments like that ("where would you be w/o slavery) to be quite distasteful taken by itself, I thought it to be questioning where you would be rhetorically since you appeared to be falling back on historical racism as a defense against any criticism.
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:lol

WHAT!!!!

i pointed out earlier James Power is a racist. based on comments he made last night. Your ignorance is 2 fold.

1. slavery is not something a black man takes lightly. you never ask a black man where he would be with out slavery like that/ never

2. you should educate yourself in why some of us are angry. read every post in this thread with a fucking open mind and you will see more comments like that one littered thru this thread and ignored by users like you. instead ofg the outrage our free brethren should feel you attack us as if we incited the comments. no we are just angry at the comments and the ignorance of many in this thread.

wake up
 
Yeah saying "where would you be without slavery" is basically an even more insulting way of "where would you be if the white man didn't help you"
 
APF said:
mashoutposse: I think if you disagree with me, and take that disagreement on a personal level, you will find me abrasive. But if you don't take disagreement personal, I'm more than willing to have a civil discussion, as many people here have learned.
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That perception comes not necessarily from the disagreement itself but from your persistent usage of subtle distortions and strawman arguments to bolster your position. It frustrates and incites the other side.
 
there are 2 types of mentalities among blacks in the United States

1. Which thinks Slavery is a thing of the past and should not be an issue any more in any discussion as its something of the past.

2. Who think Slavery defines them as people and should be an issue among discussions.




Most number 2 people end up having kids and themselves in Jail or are in the ACLU

Most number 1 people end up being like Obama
 
Guileless said:
But the only Democrats who have won presidential elections in the last 40 years were Southerners who presented themselves as moderates who were not beholden to the fringe elements of the party.
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Guileless certainly didn't mean to but I read this as all about race. In this case, the fringe element would be an angry black man pastor. In the case of the GOP, there are no fringe elements. There is only your base.

In that one sentence, it's clear to me who's running the show in this country and that's why I agree with what soul creator said.
 
artredis1980 said:
there are 2 types of mentalities among blacks in the United States

1. Which thinks Slavery is a thing of the past and should not be an issue any more in any discussion as its something of the past.

2. Who think Slavery defines them as people and should be an issue among discussions.




Most number 2 people end up having kids and themselves in Jail or are in the ACLU

Most number 1 people end up being like Obama
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I fall under category 2 as do most of the Black people I know and we're doing just fine for the most part :)
 
Tamanon said:
Yeah saying "where would you be without slavery" is basically an even more insulting way of "where would you be if the white man didn't help you"
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As I said, I don't defend that comment--so it's weird that I'm being attacked as ignorant for the "slavery" words being uttered--but that poster's comments have nothing to do with implying people must be racist for not wanting to buy Obama's book, f/e.
 
bob_arctor said:
Guileless certainly didn't mean to but I read this as all about race. In this case, the fringe element would be an angry black man pastor. In the case of the GOP, there are no fringe elements. There is only your base.

In that one sentence, it's clear to me who's running the show in this country and that's why I agree with what soul creator said.
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Perhaps part of it is, what happens to be a fringe element to a large portion of American society may still be a bigger constituency than what may be a fringe element to a smaller portion of American society. Whether or not this boils down to a distinction about race only underscores this disparity IMO.
 
APF said:
As I said, I don't defend that comment--so it's weird that I'm being attacked as ignorant for the "slavery" words being uttered--but that poster's comments have nothing to do with implying people must be racist for not wanting to buy Obama's book, f/e.
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Nobody is labeling the statement as yours, we're calling you out on your convenient ignoring of his statement.
 
I think Obama should've said that America is like the crazy uncle that you don't always agree with, and has fucked up a lot, but you still want what's best for it. That's definitely how I feel sometimes, lol

that would've really scared people off
 
harSon said:
Nobody is labeling the statement as yours, we're calling you out on your convenient ignoring of his statement.
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I find that line of argumentation ironic, considering what this thread is nominally about.


soul creator: lol
 
APF said:
I find that line of argumentation ironic, considering what this thread is nominally about.


soul creator: lol
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I'm not the one that said:

I think you have to be legally blind to say I'm inflaming "racial tensions" while Lefty42o and harSon are crumbling into divisive racial hate before our eyes.
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Why not bring up all wrong doers instead of singling out those who support Obama? I personally know the answer but I'm not expecting you to admit anything :)
 
thekad said:
Yeesh, how is James Power not banned yet? Or are the mods waiting for the end of this clusterfuck to clean house?
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Same reason why APF isn't banned for baiting, misinterpreting people's posts, then saying stop attacking me and repeat.
 
harSon said:
Whats wrong with Africa?
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That's not my question.
People complaining out of nowhere that three generations ago they would have been slaves in the US is weird. They make it sound like it's a burden to live there. This guy has NOTHING to do with slavery but he's acting on all the cliches. Ten oh so funny references on how he's a house negro and should keep his mouth shut - this constant provocation alone makes in obvious that he doesn't know shit.
 
James Power said:
That's not my question.
People complaining out of nowhere that three generations ago they would have been slaves in the US is weird. They make it sound like it's a burden to live there. This guy has NOTHING to do with slavery but he's acting on all the cliches. Ten oh so funny references on how he's a house negro and should keep his mouth shut - this constant provocation alone makes in obvious that he doesn't know shit.
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So what's your point again? That he should shut up about slavery or something? "Let it go" kinda thing?
 
harSon said:
Why not bring up all wrong doers instead of singling out those who support Obama?
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That's a weird thing to ask, since the comment I was responding to included me with Power.


AmishNazi: how is your post not a troll / bait against me?
 
Cooter said:
I thought his response was perfect. He said he never witnessed this man say these things and I believe him. Now if evidence comes out that he was lying he is in deep shit.
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Most definitely.
 
Agreed James, blacks should be thanking the white man for dragging him to our great country and taking care of them. Where would they be without us? :lol
 
Not that you people care because you guys are too busy fighting but now Clinton has an out clause for Obama NOT being her VP President. I don't think she ever wanted to put him on as VP but she needed to say so to suck up to super delegates. But at the same time she needed some reason to not put him on....and this could be it. So he could possibly be out of a VP slot if he's deemed too "controversial" as well.
 
Tamanon said:
And with Wright to! I didn't pick/choose sides.
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Of course that's a red herring, since by including one Obama supporter with two non-Obama supporters, you are in fact, demonstrating an imbalance of "sides." All I was doing was listing additional people race-baiting in this thread, while questioning why I was included in your offensive.
 
James Power said:
That's not my question.
People complaining out of nowhere that three generations ago they would have been slaves in the US is weird. They make it sound like it's a burden to live there. This guy has NOTHING to do with slavery but he's acting on all the cliches. Ten oh so funny references on how he's a house negro and should keep his mouth shut - this constant provocation alone makes in obvious that he doesn't know shit.
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Wait are you from America or not? Plus racism didn't end with slavery, blacks were still openly treated like second class citizens less that a century ago.
 
Lefty42o said:
1. slavery is not something a black man takes lightly. you never ask a black man where he would be with out slavery like that/ never
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It's an ultimate taboo? I can not ask a black US citizen: "Where would you be today if your ancestor's had not been slaves in the US?"
If I suppose that slavery in the US had never happened that's one of the first question that comes to mind. Please explain this to me.

Tamanon said:
Yeah saying "where would you be without slavery" is basically an even more insulting way of "where would you be if the white man didn't help you"
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Dumbfounded. White man can only lose.
 
James Power said:
That's not my question.
People complaining out of nowhere that three generations ago they would have been slaves in the US is weird. They make it sound like it's a burden to live there. This guy has NOTHING to do with slavery but he's acting on all the cliches. Ten oh so funny references on how he's a house negro and should keep his mouth shut - this constant provocation alone makes in obvious that he doesn't know shit.
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no the fact that you missed what i meant means you don't understand.

your acting like we should be happy we can vote, run for president but give us no credit for our views or thoughts on why we choose to voice that opinion. degrading our own voice. thus not makjng us field negroes to you but house negroes.


we can now come inside but we can't really sit at the table.


seems you have no clue what you be talking bout. i knew what i was saying thats why i said it.

James Power said:
It's an ultimate taboo? I can not ask a black US citizen: "Where would you be today if your ancestor's had not been slaves in the US?"
If I suppose that slavery in the US had never happened that's one of the first question that comes to mind. Please explain this to me.
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not how you did it. you did it in a context that we should be greatfull for where we are. and thats based on your views you have already expressed in here.
 
The problem, APF, is that you directly attacked Obamamaniacs for race-baiting while conveniently ignoring James' blatantly racist and even moreso ignorant comment. Thus, you inadvertanly(?) took a side, something I know you hate to do. I now ask whether you denounce, reject, renounce, and deject James and CoolTrick, Hillary supporters, for their racially-charged innuendo.
 
James Power said:
It's an ultimate taboo? I can not ask a black US citizen: "Where would you be today if your ancestor's had not been slaves in the US?"
If I suppose that slavery in the US had never happened that's one of the first question that comes to mind. Please explain this to me.
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Odd. I can't ask a white person, especially one in any position of prestige and/or power: "Where would you be today if your ancestors weren't slave owners?". They get annoyed even at the suggestion of such talk.

Guess everyone's a touchy asshole.
 
thekad said:
The problem, APF, is that you directly attacked Obamamaniacs for race-baiting while conveniently ignoring James' blatantly racist and even moreso ignorant comment. Thus, you inadvertanly(?) took a side, something I know you hate to do. I now ask whether you denounce, reject, renounce, and deject James and CoolTrick, Hillary supporters, for their racially-charged innuendo.
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I took no side, and in fact renounced and denounced--or whatever Obama's cute phrase was--those comments. But as I said, those comments have nothing to do with, for example, the disgusting suggestion that someone who doesn't want to buy Obama's book must be a racist, or the other blatantly race-bating comments that I was responding to in disbelief.
 
NWO said:
Not that you people care because you guys are too busy fighting but now Clinton has an out clause for Obama NOT being her VP President. I don't think she ever wanted to put him on as VP but she needed to say so to suck up to super delegates. But at the same time she needed some reason to not put him on....and this could be it. So he could possibly be out of a VP slot if he's deemed too "controversial" as well.
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Obama was never going to be her VP. If she gets the nomination, even before this came out, it would've hurt the party too much to even attempt.
 
James Power said:
It's an ultimate taboo? I can not ask a black US citizen: "Where would you be today if your ancestor's had not been slaves in the US?"
If I suppose that slavery in the US had never happened that's one of the first question that comes to mind. Please explain this to me.



Dumbfounded. White man can only lose.
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As a white man myself, I'll do with a little bit of losing now and again. I think we won enough over the years to not have a problem acknowledging our faults.
 
Well then I expect you APF, as the nonpartisan bystander, to equally attack all racist comments, not just those coming from the keyboards of people you don't like (because they support someone you don't like).
 
APF said:
I took no side, and in fact renounced and denounced--or whatever Obama's cute phrase was--those comments. But as I said, those comments have nothing to do with, for example, the disgusting suggestion that someone who doesn't want to buy Obama's book must be a racist, or the other blatantly race-bating comments that I was responding to in disbelief.
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You still haven't come up with the racially injected statement you seem to think I have made.
 
Tamanon said:
As a white man myself, I'll do with a little bit of losing now and again. I think we won enough over the years to not have a problem acknowledging our faults.
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Just ask Mr. Power to go around asking his Jewish friends where they'd be without the Holocaust to see these kinds of reactions aren't resigned to black America. As for the little bit of losing, is it of the "18-1" variety? ;-)
 
Tamanon said:
Obama was never going to be her VP. If she gets the nomination, even before this came out, it would've hurt the party too much to even attempt.
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I'm pretty sure you had some high profile Democrats who would have MADE these 2 pair up especially if they split the votes and the delegates. If one had the popular vote and one had the delegate vote they would have asked them to be a combo either Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton and then if the person didn't want it THEY'D have to drop out.

I know neither of them wanted to be VP but before all this shit went down the higher up Democrats were hoping to "heal" the party by putting each other on the ticket. Now I don't see that happening and all hell will break loose no matter who is picked for the Democrats.
 
harSon: if you're just talking about today, and not in your agreement with Wright's preaching in general (for which I can go back through the thread and see if my impression of the tone of your agreement matches up with what you actually said), then you haven't said much of substance at all--about anything really, not just race. But I found your laughing acceptance here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10216621&postcount=882

And your comment here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10216711&postcount=890

Fits the bill, or at least shows you have no problem with people going down that path.
 
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