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Obama's pastor: "God Damn America"

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Branduil said:
I don't know about you guys but this thread has certainly convinced me that Obama and his supporters will surely unite and heal this nation.
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In other Western countries, a candidate being part of some weird Christian cult (or megachurch in this case, though not much of a difference) led by a flamboyant loud mouth would be a big liability.

I can see Obama's POV in this affair, his loyalty, his free pass to his retiring friend, but even in America, he still would have been better served by a large, more anonymous Christian denomination rather than a cult. All it does his tarnish his image and this is something he could have anticipated and dealt with well before he decided to have a public life.
 
icarus-daedelus said:
Fine, put it back into context:

How do you do anything there, in context, that excuses the fact that you assume that minorities and blacks in particular are "voting for Obama out of the sheer principle that he's black. Period"?

I'm just curious, dude. If you have an explanation for that blanket stereotyping, fine, I'd love to hear it. I'm not trying to attack you, although I did find your comments there incredibly offensive.
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I agreed to a post by CoolTrick.

Originally Posted by CoolTrick: If Obama was white, people wouldn't have much reason to believe the entire platform of his campaign -- change. The fact that he has a physical difference from past presidents gives his platform credibility from the very surface level.
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Exactly. To vote for Obama you have to be either dumb or a racist. His "change" doesn't include anything that Clinton campaign doesn't also include. Obama's presidency is nothing but counter-racism from the minorities waiting to happen. People are voting for him because he's black, because there's finally "one of them", because there's finally "a minority in power".
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That's how I interpret his supporters based on my reasoning and what I learned from such situations.
 
Instigator said:
In other Western countries, a candidate being part of some weird Christian cult (or megachurch in this case, though not much of a difference) led by a flamboyant loud mouth would be a big liability.

I can see Obama's POV in this affair, his loyalty, his free pass to his retiring friend, but even in America, he still would have been better served by a large, more anonymous Christian denomination rather than a cult. All it does his tarnish his image and this is something he could have anticipated and dealt with well before he decided to have a public life.
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For fucks sake...
 
Deus Ex Machina said:
True.

Only because his rallies are big haters came up this messiah thing.
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False. The "Obama Messiah Watch" came as a result of press coverage and punditry lauding Obama as a nigh-mystical figure, before he was a leading candidate.
 
icarus-daedelus said:
To be fair, there are detractors and supporters on both sides that are being rational and detractors and supporters on both sides that are being dumb and hateful.

I don't really think this thread in particular has proven anything about the man himself, though, unless you suggest that he has participated in the discussion here.
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I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message.

oops, I've said too much
 
APF said:
False. The "Obama Messiah Watch" came as a result of press coverage and punditry lauding Obama as a nigh-mystical figure, before he was a leading candidate.
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False. His competitors are the ones who labeled him as the mystical messiah endowed with celestial abilities to unite and heal all.
 
icarus-daedelus said:
Fine, put it back into context:

How do you do anything there, in context, that excuses the fact that you assume that minorities and blacks in particular are "voting for Obama out of the sheer principle that he's black. Period"?

I'm just curious, dude. If you have an explanation for that blanket stereotyping, fine, I'd love to hear it. I'm not trying to attack you, although I did find your comments there incredibly offensive.
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of course he's correct, didn't you see the amazing turnout and loyalty black people had for Alan Keyes everytime he ran for president? We really love that guy.

sarcasm, woohoo
 
harSon said:
False. His competitors are the ones who labeled him as the mystical messiah endowed with celestial abilities to unite and heal all.
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False. His competitor (singular) attacked the preexisting notion that he was such a figure.
 
James Power said:
I agreed to a post by CoolTrick.



That's how I interpret his supporters based on my reasoning and what I learned from such situations.
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Hillary usually gets about the same percentage of the white vote that Obama gets from blacks too. Guess that means she's lucky to be white. She also usually leads in women too. Guess that means she's lucky to be a women. She also gets the a bigger portion of the Hispanic vote. Guess that means she's lucky that a good portion of Hispanics don't get along with African Americans huh.

That shit works two ways.

Dr.Guru of Peru said:
He isn't. Read up his post history.
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I was having more fun pointing out the hypocrisy of him demanding answers to hypotheticals when he won't answer real questions.
 
APF said:
False. His competitor (singular) attacked the preexisting notion that he was such a figure.
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False. The media simply called his campaign a movement, they never hinted towards the idea that he had endowed powers of mysticism, his competitor(s) did.
 
24qsavc.jpg
 
harSon said:
False. The media simply called his campaign a movement, they never hinted towards the idea that he had endowed powers of mysticism, his competitor(s) did.
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False. The "Obama Messiah Watch" predated Hillary's comment; also, Hillary (singular) never hinted Obama had mystical powers--she attacked the preexisting notion he did.
 
hat's the only place where Obama got insanely high % of blacks.
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What in the world polls have YOU been following? That's not at all accurate.

No, Obama might not always get 91% of the black vote like in Miss, but he usually gets 80-85%, easily, regardless of the state.

Hillary, on the other hand, does not always get 75% of the white vote.
 
The idea that blacks voting for Obama do so only because they share skin color is reductionist; the reality is far more complicated and convoluted, as seen in the fact that in the beginning of the campaign Clinton commanded an impressive proportion of the black vote. Further complicating this matter is that at the time, many (including many posters here) posited this was due to an incredulity that a black man could in fact be chosen as the Democratic nominee, or be named President in today's America.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
So someone explain to me, but what does this have to do with Obama running for president that could potentially affect his decisions if elected?
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Well, it certainly affects his "judgement on day 1" mantra.
 
DKnight said:
Uhh, so why is there any uproar at all for this? everything the pastor said is 100% true.
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Like Keith Olbermann said, it's like Hillary is the Republican candidate. Facts be damned, her campaign is going on an all out Karl Rove-style smear campaign against Obama all the while accusing HIM of the Rovian tactics.
 
polyh3dron said:
Like Keith Olbermann said, it's like Hillary is the Republican candidate. Facts be damned, her campaign is going on an all out Karl Rove-style smear campaign against Obama all the while accusing HIM of the Rovian tactics.
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What's the Hillary "smear" here? AFAIK they didn't bring this up...
 
DKnight said:
Uhh, so why is there any uproar at all for this? everything the pastor said is 100% true.
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Yeah because we all know that the US government creating AIDS to hold down 3rd world nations is a FACT. :rolleyes:
 
APF said:
The idea that blacks voting for Obama do so only because they share skin color is reductionist; the reality is far more complicated and convoluted, as seen in the fact that in the beginning of the campaign Clinton commanded an impressive proportion of the black vote. Further complicating this matter is that at the time, many (including many posters here) posited this was due to an incredulity that a black man could in fact be chosen as the Democratic nominee, or be named President in today's America.
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Very true. The view that black vote for Obama because they want a black person if pretty stunted. Wouldn't cities and states with a majority of blacks all have black mayors and governors?
 
APF said:
What's the Hillary "smear" here? AFAIK they didn't bring this up...
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Of course Hillary couldn't bring this up directly, but my post was more about Hillary's campaign in general, and the insane amount of spin that has been used.
 
mac said:
Very true. The black vote for Obama because they want a black person if pretty stunted Wouldn't cities and states with a majority of blacks all have black mayors and governors?
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Just look at exit polls to see how much race factors in.
 
I think this will do more damage than people here suggest. Clearly, the majority of the US is still conservative, and there are far more right-wing than far-left.

Obama's religion was already called into question just because of his MOTHER-GIVEN NAME which he has no control over

Obama's religious beliefs were already under fire from him having various dubious supporters, who happened to be extremists, muslims, or both. He also has no control over that except to deny their funding.

Obama's faith was also targeted because of various pictures and accounts of him attending certain charity functions or donating to certain charities.

This is the latest little 'zing' and probably affects him about as much as hisname, if not more so.

His campaign isn't invincible. I wonder how many more hits can his campaign take like this before he starts going under.

I predict larger Hillary wins in the next couple weeks, unless she can top this. Her being attacked and torn apart by various political correspondents won't influence the votes of the nation like this will.
 
The Abominable Snowman said:
I think this will do more damage than people here suggest. Clearly, the majority of the US is still conservative, and there are far more right-wing than far-left.

Obama's religion was already called into question just because of his MOTHER-GIVEN NAME which he has no control over

Obama's religious beliefs were already under fire from him having various dubious supporters, who happened to be extremists, muslims, or both. He also has no control over that except to deny their funding.

Obama's faith was also targeted because of various pictures and accounts of him attending certain charity functions or donating to certain charities.

This is the latest little 'zing' and probably affects him about as much as hisname, if not more so.

His campaign isn't invincible. I wonder how many more hits can his campaign take like this before he starts going under.

I predict larger Hillary wins in the next couple weeks, unless she can top this. Her being attacked and torn apart by various political correspondents won't influence the votes of the nation like this will.
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The next primary isn't till the end of April
 
The Abominable Snowman said:
I think this will do more damage than people here suggest. Clearly, the majority of the US is still conservative, and there are far more right-wing than far-left.

Obama's religion was already called into question just because of his MOTHER-GIVEN NAME which he has no control over

Obama's religious beliefs were already under fire from him having various dubious supporters, who happened to be extremists, muslims, or both. He also has no control over that except to deny their funding.

Obama's faith was also targeted because of various pictures and accounts of him attending certain charity functions or donating to certain charities.

This is the latest little 'zing' and probably affects him about as much as hisname, if not more so.

His campaign isn't invincible. I wonder how many more hits can his campaign take like this before he starts going under.

I predict larger Hillary wins in the next couple weeks, unless she can top this. Her being attacked and torn apart by various political correspondents won't influence the votes of the nation like this will.
Click to expand...


i cant wait for those imaginary races

you have shown you are not that informed on this race
 
Supporters are spooked:

If the parishioners of Trinity United Church were not buzzing about Reverend Wright's post 9/11 comments, then it could only seem to be because those comments were not out of character with what he preached from the pulpit many times before. In that case, I have to wonder if it is really possible for the Obamas to have been parishioners there - by 9/11 they were there more than a decade - and not to have known very clearly how radical Wright's views were. If, on the other hand, parishioners were shocked by Wright's vitriol only days after more than 3,000 Americans had been killed by terrorists, they would have talked about it incessantly. Barack - a sitting Illinois State Senator - would have been one of the first to hear about it.

Can't you imagine the call or conversation? "Barack, you aren't going to believe what Revered Wright said yesterday at the church. You should be ready with a comment if someone from the press calls you up."

But Barack now claims he never heard about any of this until after he began his run for the presidency, in February, 20007.

And even if Barack is correct - and I desperately want to believe him - then it still does not explain why, when he learned in 2007 of Wright's fringe comments about 9/11 and other subjects, the campaign did not then disassociate itself from the Reverend. Wright was not removed from the campaign's Spiritual Advisory Committee until two days ago, and it appears likely that nothing would have been done had this story not broken nationally.
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Huffington Post

And the idea of him not being in attendance that particular Sunday is utterly preposterous.
 
Who was it who said that once we hit the Spring / Summer, we'd see the smear campaign in action?

The things his pastor has said has NOTHING to do with Obama's credentials as Presidential candidate. The words in question came in 2001, so why wasn't this dredged up earlier? Its all timing. A story designed purely to sow the seeds of doubt in those who support him. If the Clinton campaign is behind dredging this up - fuck her!

And got knows what people siezing on this whant people to believe. Do they want people to think he's gonna get in office and be like:

KILL KILL KILL.. THE WHITE MAN.

Its fucking bullshit.
 
siamesedreamer said:
Supporters are spooked:



Huffington Post

And the idea of him not being in attendance that particular Sunday is utterly preposterous.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/guess-whos-coming-to-din_b_91666.html

Find me a people that have been systematically disenfranchised, underrepresented, shut out, since time memorial? And then find me evidence of total civility and political correctness in that community? It doesn't exist. So, if the rules are that in order for us to play in your game — the ascent to POTUS — we have to cleanse ourselves of all evidence of our fight to even get to this point, then we will lose. We're not ready for prime time if that means we have no controversial Jeremiah Wright's still visible to mainstream America. Obama's pariah pastor is emblematic of the vitriol that is still part of the black dialogue in some ways. But most importantly, it is not what Obama has been preaching from his time as a community leader and throughout his entire political career. So why force him to answer for it?
 
From rhe man himself:
headshot.jpg

On My Faith and My Church
Posted March 14, 2008 | 04:28 PM (EST)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html
 
As much as I'd like to believe Obama, I just can't accept that the pastor only said those things a few times, all while Obama wasn't there, and him having heard nothing of it until 2007.

Him having no knowledge of his pastor's radical views and statements, I find not very likely :(
 
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