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[Pristine_Condition]

Like Keith Olbermann said, it's like Hillary is the Republican candidate. Facts be damned, her campaign is going on an all out Karl Rove-style smear campaign against Obama all the while accusing HIM of the Rovian tactics.

Well if Hillary's campaign doesn't use this, they must not really want to win, and they must not care if the Democrats win the White House very much either.

 

[Tamanon]

Well if Hillary's campaign doesn't use this, they must not really want to win, and they must not care if the Democrats win the White House very much either.

I dunno, there are some lines you don't cross. Hillary has been avoiding this issue and McCain has already distanced himself from it. It's just like McCain's POW hatred of "gooks" won't be used in the election.

 

[masud]

And even if he was present,who fucking cares?(besides the media)

Well we should care at that point because that would mean he lied. I agree with allot of what his pastor said and more importantly I understand where he's coming from as an older black man. But even I find it hard to believe that Obama wasn't aware of his pastor’s views. It's strange though Obama strikes me as an honest man, plus it would be very easy to be caught in that lie if it were one.

 

[Lefty42o]

Were that the case apparently Obama cares enough to lie about it.

once again

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/guess-whos-coming-to-din_b_91666.html

Find me a people that have been systematically disenfranchised, underrepresented, shut out, since time memorial? And then find me evidence of total civility and political correctness in that community? It doesn't exist. So, if the rules are that in order for us to play in your game — the ascent to POTUS — we have to cleanse ourselves of all evidence of our fight to even get to this point, then we will lose. We're not ready for prime time if that means we have no controversial Jeremiah Wright's still visible to mainstream America. Obama's pariah pastor is emblematic of the vitriol that is still part of the black dialogue in some ways. But most importantly, it is not what Obama has been preaching from his time as a community leader and throughout his entire political career. So why force him to answer for it?

pastors in many black churches including both jesse jackson and al sharpton have said controversial things about america and even the black community. (bill cosby).

this is part of that racial divide. he has to take this stance in white america. cause they got a glimpse into our black america and it scared the hell out of them. and draws on bigger issues than just controversial statements. similar statements made in by rin paul went unnoticed and he was running for rpesident.

ron paul and rudy going after each other about 9/11 in a south carolina debate come to mind.

double standard for a white man in whte america. need i say more?

 

[Lefty42o]

Well we should care at that point because that would mean he lied. I agree with allot of what his pastor said and more importantly I understand where he's coming from as an older black man. But even I find it hard to believe that Obama wasn't aware of his pastor’s views. It's strange though Obama strikes me as an honest man, plus it would be very easy to be caught in that lie if it were one.

so you should understand why he lied if he did.

his church, his beliefs and his friends are on the line. this is what equality is the us of a looks like.

so glad they let me out of the field and into the house.

Well if Hillary's campaign doesn't use this, they must not really want to win, and they must not care if the Democrats win the White House very much either.

this issue is bigger than some words by wirght. to many in the black community this is an attack on who we are as a people. which is why this thread has been so heated. not to mention hagee and pat robertson.

none of the candidates will come with in 10 feet of this issue. they will let the media play it how they will. it goes to the core of the racial divide.

 

[masud]

once again

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/guess-whos-coming-to-din_b_91666.html

Find me a people that have been systematically disenfranchised, underrepresented, shut out, since time memorial? And then find me evidence of total civility and political correctness in that community? It doesn't exist. So, if the rules are that in order for us to play in your game — the ascent to POTUS — we have to cleanse ourselves of all evidence of our fight to even get to this point, then we will lose. We're not ready for prime time if that means we have no controversial Jeremiah Wright's still visible to mainstream America. Obama's pariah pastor is emblematic of the vitriol that is still part of the black dialogue in some ways. But most importantly, it is not what Obama has been preaching from his time as a community leader and throughout his entire political career. So why force him to answer for it?

pastors in many black churches including both jesse jackson and al sharpton have said controversial things about america and even the black community. (bill cosby).

this is part of that racial divide. he has to take this stance in white america. cause they got a glimpse into our black america and it scared the hell out of them. and draws on bigger issues than just controversial statements. similar statements made in by rin paul went unnoticed and he was running for rpesident.

ron paul and rudy going after each other about 9/11 in a south carolina debate come to mind.

double standard for a white man in whte america. need i say more?

I really hope he isn't lying. That would not only ruin him but I would also lose a lot of respect for him.
edit:

so you should understand why he lied if he did.

Yeah totaly, but I don't respect liars.

 

[ComputerNerd]

once again

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/guess-whos-coming-to-din_b_91666.html

Find me a people that have been systematically disenfranchised, underrepresented, shut out, since time memorial? And then find me evidence of total civility and political correctness in that community? It doesn't exist. So, if the rules are that in order for us to play in your game — the ascent to POTUS — we have to cleanse ourselves of all evidence of our fight to even get to this point, then we will lose. We're not ready for prime time if that means we have no controversial Jeremiah Wright's still visible to mainstream America. Obama's pariah pastor is emblematic of the vitriol that is still part of the black dialogue in some ways. But most importantly, it is not what Obama has been preaching from his time as a community leader and throughout his entire political career. So why force him to answer for it?

pastors in many black churches including both jesse jackson and al sharpton have said controversial things about america and even the black community. (bill cosby).

this is part of that racial divide. he has to take this stance in white america. cause they got a glimpse into our black america and it scared the hell out of them. and draws on bigger issues than just controversial statements. similar statements made in by rin paul went unnoticed and he was running for rpesident.

ron paul and rudy going after each other about 9/11 in a south carolina debate come to mind.

double standard for a white man in whte america. need i say more?

So it's all the white man's fault. BTW, people didn't much care for Ron Paul's statements, because he was never a front runner. If he was ever a contender, you bet those comments would be discussed. And rightfully so.

 

[Loudninja]

What the hell?This many pages for what?

 

[APF]

Lefty42o: While I understand and can appreciate the frustrations of the past, the truth of the present is, there are many more opportunities and greater "hope," in part as evidenced by the success of Obama's campaign, and--ironically enough--due to the efforts of this man and other concerned American citizens during the CR era and beyond. I think it's possible to move on from the anachronistic, bombastic and divisive rhetoric of race-baiting vitriol, and Obama himself agrees with me, which is why--contrary to your intentions--he backed away from this so strongly. Your point, that he lied about his knowledge in order to pacify white audiences who might be alienated from voting for him otherwise, is perhaps worse than anything I might have written about Obama, so I'll just leave it hanging there like the festering garbage it is. Unlike Wright, and unlike you, Obama has desperately tried to move beyond this need of some people to see the world, and see America, through race-tinted glasses, instead asking Americans to look at what brings us together as a people; it just demonstrates further how little Obama's actual message resonates with you on a personal level, vs some other, less intellectually-based connection. Sad.

 

[Insertia]

REALLY doesn't understand why this topic is still on pg 1 of the OT. Is political coverage that lacking that something that has nothing to do with the Obama whats-so-ever is big news and has the peons questioning if Obama feels the same as the reverend.

Bush's pastor killed a puppy when he was 19.

McCain served with 6 homosexual serial killers in 'Nam.

Hilary's mom baked an apple pie June 16, 1967.

Very random. Very irrelevant.

 

[Lefty42o]

So it's all the white man's fault. BTW, people didn't much care for Ron Paul's statements, because he was never a front runner. If he was ever a contender, you bet those comments would be discussed. And rightfully so.

no its a cultural and racial divide. similar to ones we have seen thru out history. indians are savages ,blacks are ignorant.


next it only matters cause obama might win? no sir. its cause he is black. sugar coat it all you want. its a cultural divide.

ignore it all you want. you can not wave a wand and we are all equal. this is the usa we live in.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

LOL @ all the people kidding themselves into believing this is no big deal...

You guys honestly can't see any problems that membership to a church where rhetoric like this was preached from the pulpit might pose for a President in a post-911 world?

Think about it. You shouldn't have to think too hard, if you can make basic connections of logic. It's just staring you in the face.

 

[masud]

So it's all the white man's fault?

If you you're referring to reason his pastor and many other older black people feel the way they do, then yes it is the white mans fault. I'm of course using the term 'white man' to refer to the people responsible for the systematic and institutionalized racism that prevailed until very recently and throughout most of this country’s history.

 

[kame-sennin]

ron paul and rudy going after each other about 9/11 in a south carolina debate come to mind.

double standard for a white man in whte america. need i say more?

I think the media just doesn't give a shit about Ron Paul. When they come across an idea that doesn't fit the accepted American historical narrative (read: whitewashing), they marginalize it. Ron Paul had already been marginalized, so there was no need to address his comments. In the case of this pastor, he is associated with a mainstream figure - Obama. Therefore, marginalizing the idea that 9/11 was the result of blow back in reaction to aggressive American foreign policy isn't enough. First they have to rake Obama over the coals for being associated with such an unpleasant ideology, and then they can go back to ignoring things that make us all uncomfortable.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Fox News is reporting that Obama is saying he was at home during the 9/16/01 sermon taking care of his newborn daughter Sasha. Did some digging - Sasha was born 1/17/01. She would have been eight months old at the time of the sermon.

Is it possible he was at home taking care of the kids? Yes. However, he stated last night that he only took time off from the church in 1998 when his first daughter was born.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now until something proves him wrong. But, I still find it very hard to believe he wasn't there on that day of days - the first Sunday after 9/11. A pillar of the community? Someone who would have provided guidance and assurance? A shoulder to cry on? Just don't know...very hard to believe.

 

[Loudninja]

WHO CARES?my god, you guys cares about the most useless crap.

 

[Lefty42o]

Lefty42o: While I understand and can appreciate the frustrations of the past, the truth of the present is, there are many more opportunities and greater "hope," in part as evidenced by the success of Obama's campaign, and--ironically enough--due to the efforts of this man and other concerned American citizens during the CR era and beyond. I think it's possible to move on from the anachronistic, bombastic and divisive rhetoric of race-baiting vitriol, and Obama himself agrees with me, which is why--contrary to your intentions--he backed away from this so strongly. Your point, that he lied about his knowledge in order to pacify white audiences who might be alienated from voting for him otherwise, is perhaps worse than anything I might have written about Obama, so I'll just leave it hanging there like the festering garbage it is. Unlike Wright, and unlike you, Obama has desperately tried to move beyond this need of some people to see the world, and see America, through race-tinted glasses, instead asking Americans to look at what brings us together as a people; it just demonstrates further how little Obama's actual message resonates with you on a personal level, vs some other, less intellectually-based connection. Sad.

oh you speak the truth. the ignorance is not on me or others who feel like i do but on those whites who have held our skin against us.

we should be happy obama was the 3rd senator and patterson will be the 3rd gov?

and no i never said he lied. i said i as a black man in white america understands why he would on this the most personal of issues

i am a black man married to a white women with a racists father in law. i know the world i live in. it seems many of you have no clue what world you live in. Obama will not heal us. we will heal us. thats his message. and if this thread is any clue no we are far from healing us.

and i know more now than ever obama will never be president. cause those who would judge us by our skin will not let it happen. thats the message we wills end to a generation of young people, specially blacks already under represented.

walk a mile in our shoes

 

[ComputerNerd]

It shouldn't be a big deal, though. No one is required to agree with everything their pastors or friends or whomever say.

But to listen to that kind of garbage for 20 years, and not switch churches... is odd. And then to elect him as a member of your campaign (spiritual adviser).

 

[Pristine_Condition]

It shouldn't be a big deal, though. No one is required to agree with everything their pastors or friends or whomever say.

You don't get it at all.

I'm still waiting, guys. Figure it out. Someone here besides me can forsee the obvious "gotcha" moment that someone could use against Obama in a debate or in the media here.

I guarantee the Republicans have thought of it already.

 

[Loudninja]

But to listen to that kind of garbage for 20 years, and not switch churches... is odd. And then to elect him as a member of your campaign (spiritual adviser).

Did you even read though the topic?

 

[APF]

I think the media just doesn't give a shit about Ron Paul. When they come across an idea that doesn't fit the accepted American historical narrative (read: whitewashing), they marginalize it. Ron Paul had already been marginalized, so there was no need to address his comments.

Maybe you weren't here for the gagillions of threads on this issue, but "the media" did indeed attack Paul for his statements.


Lefty42o: the funny thing is, your race-baiting bullshit makes me want to defend Obama--from his own supporters--more than anything else. You do your candidate a huge discredit, sir.

 

[ComputerNerd]

Did you even read though the topic?

Yup. And I don't believe that his pastor only said those things a couple times, and Obama wasn't there to hear them. Hence my posts earlier on this very page.

 

[XxenobladerxX]

nvm

 

[siamesedreamer]

WHO CARES?my god, you guys cares about the most useless crap.

You got that right.

Nobody should care that Obama attended a racialist church for 20 years who's America-hating paster also happens to be his personal spiritual advisor. Nope, this is a non-story. "Uncles" always say the darnedest things.

 

[miketrav87]

Yeah. Admittedly I lean conservative. But up until this point, I found Obama to be a decent guy. Wasn't really against the idea of him being president. But DAMN, those videos are scary as shit. I wouldn't want anyone that's a major part of that congregation to be in political office. And honestly, this would be a big deal, if not bigger, if Hillary's pastor said the same thing in the same manner and context. Wow, just wow.

 

[XxenobladerxX]

You got that right.

Nobody should care that Obama attended a racialist church for 20 years who's America-hating paster also happens to be his personal spiritual advisor. Nope, this is a non-story. "Uncles" always say the darnedest things.

But does Obama AGREE on his views?

 

[kame-sennin]

You got that right.

Nobody should care that Obama attended a racialist church for 20 years who's America-hating paster also happens to be his personal spiritual advisor. Nope, this is a non-story. "Uncles" always say the darnedest things.

I'm not sure if I've read every inflammatory quote by this pastor, but how is he a racist, and how does he hate America? Does he say harsh things? Yes, but none of it is without reason. People need to understand that you can criticize a country and love it at the same time. Why would he serve in the marines if he hated America?

Yeah. Admittedly I lean conservative. But up until this point, I found Obama to be a decent guy. Wasn't really against the idea of him being president. But DAMN, those videos are scary as shit. I wouldn't want anyone that's a major part of that congregation to be in political office. And honestly, this would be a big deal, if not bigger, if Hillary's pastor said the same thing in the same manner and context. Wow, just wow.

And how many presidents have we had who were parishioners of virulently anti-gay churches? How many politically connected pastors have condemned feminism?

 

[killakiz]

Yeah. Admittedly I lean conservative. But up until this point, I found Obama to be a decent guy. Wasn't really against the idea of him being president. But DAMN, those videos are scary as shit. I wouldn't want anyone that's a major part of that congregation to be in political office. And honestly, this would be a big deal, if not bigger, if Hillary's pastor said the same thing in the same manner and context. Wow, just wow.

LOL you wouldnt last 10 seconds in a black church, this shit is nothing compared to other shit.

 

[Loudninja]

But does Obama AGREE on his views?

Juts forget it, people will repeat the same thing over and over and over.

Edit: I love how people trying to make a big deal out of this, like Obama should be responsible form something his pastor said.

 

[thesoapster]

But does Obama AGREE on his views?

Well, I'd have to think then...if he doesn't agree with this guy, why does he keep going to the church? Is this kind of viewed as his loyalty towards the guy for bringing him to Christianity?

 

[Lefty42o]

LOL you wouldnt last 10 seconds in a black church, this shit is nothing compared to other shit.

lol. specially when its a self look sermon where the pastor throws down on how the black man is hurting the black man in america. those can get pretty heated :lol


have you all out your seat.

Well, I'd have to think then...if he doesn't agree with this guy, why does he keep going to the church? Is this kind of viewed as his loyalty towards the guy for bringing him to Christianity?

cause you go to church to worship god and teach how to be a good Christian thru the bible.

and it wasn't his views. it was in how he said it. he said it like it is and some things were not PC enough.

next his history sheds light. obama was not a religous man growing up. he went to work for the churches to help the community. from there the congregation grew on him. the church is more than a church in a black community. thats where the problem first lies.

next we are a passionate people with 400 years of anger. but that anger can be harnessed for the good of all man, which is what being Christian is about. sermons like wrights are used to get the black man thinking. some times its not sugar coated. sometimes its plain wrong.

but i would not change my church based on anything i have seen from wright.

and the hillary has never been called a nigger was a great sermon from what i saw. had me all fired up. maybe cause i know the feeling that words invokes when its used to hate. perspective is only achieved thur experience. and my perspective is very clear on america.

 

[masud]

What did the Pastor say that was racist?

 

[APF]

People need to understand that you can criticize a country and love it at the same time.

Love it or damn it; same diff.

Why is it that Obama himself reacted to Wright's comments re: America by saying how disappointed he was in those remarks, chiefly because of how much he himself loved America?

 

[Mr. Mister]

You got that right.

Nobody should care that Obama attended a racialist church for 20 years who's America-hating paster also happens to be his personal spiritual advisor. Nope, this is a non-story. "Uncles" always say the darnedest things.

what does it matter though? are you saying that he is actually out to destroy the united states? that he really has some nefarious plan if he gets into office?

i dont understand why it matters other then to rile up white america (you!)

 

[GaimeGuy]

What the hell?This many pages for what?

Good fucking question.

 

[ComputerNerd]

Well, he is a spiritual adviser, after all, and not a political one; the controversial statements in question are political, and not spiritual.

Why (re-)state the obvious, especially when you've said it for us already?

I wouldn't go to a church where I don't agree with the pastor politically. Especially if he's spewing anti-America and racist garbage.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Why would he serve in the marines if he hated America?

Its pretty obvious this will be used as evidence that Wright "isn't that bad of a guy". Obama did it yesterday. But, it'll be interesting to see if he was a willing volunteer or if he was a draftee. That's gauranteed to be researched.

Note: I don't think a distinction is warranted. All who serve should be commended. But, it will be looked at.

 

[AmishNazi]

What did the Pastor say that was racist?

Apparently the government = white people.

I wouldn't go to a church where I don't agree with the pastor politically. Especially if he's spewing anti-America and racist garbage.

He was saying it the week after 9/11. Plus I think it was more along the lines of America should stop using god and religion as a shield, because god / the bible doesn't condone these types of actions.

 

[miketrav87]

Funny thing about the responses. I've BEEN to a black Church SEVERAL times. Generally they're pretty fired up for Jesus, not some anti-white or anti-America stuff. You kidding me??

 

[Lefty42o]

We've discussed this already in this thread, but church is more than just agreeing or not agreeing with the pastor on political matters - it also brings with it a sense of community and spirituality.

Of course, I have no personal experience with this; I'm just repeating the tone of what others have said here already.

fuuny how i bet many here are not religious and barely go to church yet hold such strong opinions. :lol

 

[radioheadrule83]

You got that right.

Nobody should care that Obama attended a racialist church for 20 years who's America-hating paster also happens to be his personal spiritual advisor. Nope, this is a non-story. "Uncles" always say the darnedest things.

America hating?

Someone trying to educate people as to why people might want to attack the US isn't America hating. Its right on. Wake the fuck up people. The world is sick, and before 9/11 many of us in the West were blissfully unaware as to why. Rev Wright, while naive and far too impassioned in choosing his words, is clearly an educated man -- not an evangelical loony the likes of which many other wouldbe Presidents have had the support of in the past. He wasn't angry at America, he was angry at the political institution he saw as bringing about what was then a recent calamity and loss of life in New York. The fact he was angry and spewing forth such diatribes signifies his love for America imo. He thought that the US government had brought those attacks on those people, and he was PISSED about it. Thats his right to believe that. You swear alliegance to the flag, not the idiots at the White House.

There are certain kinds of people siezing on this story. People who don't want to recognise the perceptions of Rev Wright and his community as valid, people eager to dismiss the truth that was in the pastor's words, people who don't want a black president, people who don't want to see a Democrat succeed, and Hillary supporters.

In doing so... in labelling this church a Racialist church, they're doing that community a whole lot of wrong imo. Obama states in the article above some of the good things that his Church has done for the community. The pastor has retired, Obama condemned his words, only the people I listed above have anything to gain by this story going on. Are you fucks seriously gonna let the media tar that whole congregation as a bunch of cracker-hatin' nutbars that were GLAD 9/11 happened? Cos thats whats fucking going on.

This plays on the fears of dumb white men, and we all fucking know it.

 

[kame-sennin]

Its pretty obvious this will be used as evidence that Wright "isn't that bad of a guy". Obama did it yesterday. But, it'll be interesting to see if he was a willing volunteer or if he was a draftee. That's gauranteed to be researched.

Note: I don't think a distinction is warranted. All who serve should be commended. But, it will be looked at.

That's fine. I wouldn't argue that serving makes you a good person, it's just something worth considering. But what about the rest of my post?

I wouldn't go to a church where I don't agree with the pastor politically. Especially if he's spewing anti-America and racist garbage.

Again: "I'm not sure if I've read every inflammatory quote by this pastor, but how is he a racist, and how does he hate America? Does he say harsh things? Yes, but none of it is without reason. People need to understand that you can criticize a country and love it at the same time."

Edit: The post above mine is spot on, btw.

 

[Lefty42o]

America hating?

Someone trying to educate people as to why people might want to attack the US isn't America hating. Its right on. Wake the fuck up people. The world is sick, and before 9/11 many of us in the West were blissfully unaware as to why. Rev Wright, while naive in choosing his words, is clearly an educated man -- not an evangelical loony the likes of which many other wouldbe Presidents have had the support of in the past.

There are certain kinds of people siezing on this story. People who don't want to recognise the perceptions of Rev Wright and his community as valid, people eager to dismiss the truth that was in the pastor's words, people who don't want a black president, people who don't want to see a Democrat succeed, and Hillary supporters.

In doing so... in labelling this church a Racialist church, they're doing that community a whole lot of wrong imo. Obama states in the article above some of the good things that his Church has done for the community. The pastor has retired, Obama condemned his words, only the people I listed above have anything to gain by this story going on. Are you fucks seriously gonna let the media tar that whole congregation as a bunch of cracker-hatin' nutbars that were GLAD 9/11 happened? Cos thats whats fucking going on.

This plays on the fears of dumb white men, and we all fucking know it.

this man speaks the truth.


omg. another racist. and we gave him a holiday.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=92-r05TH9qs&feature=related

 

[miketrav87]

Yeah "God DAMN America" You really say that about countries you love...

 

[masud]

Funny thing about the responses. I've BEEN to a black Church SEVERAL times. Generally they're pretty fired up for Jesus, not some anti-white or anti-America stuff. You kidding me??

Again what did he say that was anti white? People keep saying this.

 

[Particle Physicist]

unfucken believable that something someone who isnt even involved with obama's campaign, said over a year ago (or longer) has garnered much more attention than something someone said, that was very similar in context, was directly involved in hillary's campaign... and said only recently!*

the fuck .. and how is he supposed deal with this? he cant fire him from his campaign.. cause he isnt even involved.

WHY IS THIS THREAD SO LARGE.

this shouldnt even be a controversy. we have known about this for over a year or more!





*talking about hillary white comments.

 

[kame-sennin]

Yeah "God DAMN America" You really say that about countries you love...

There are a lot of reasons why God would condemn someone to eternal "damnation". I'm not a theologian, but I imagine some of America's higher crimes would be worthy of that condemnation.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Yeah "God DAMN America" You really say that about countries you love...

I'll post what I just edited into my last post again...

He wasn't angry at America, he was angry at the political institution he saw as bringing about what was then a recent calamity: the loss of life in New York. The fact he was angry and spewing forth such diatribes signifies his love for America imo. He thought that the US government had brought those attacks on those people, and he was PISSED about it. Thats his right to believe that. You swear alliegance to the flag, not the idiots at the White House.

 

[miketrav87]

If somebody were to say the same things about black people, you can be dang sure they'd be branded as racist. And rightfully so.

 

[Lefty42o]

Yeah "God DAMN America" You really say that about countries you love...

do you understand what God Damn America means?

are you saying america has not killed innocent people?

our hands are not clean. the blood of many people are on our hands. the bible says to damn us. so God damn amnerica.

damn being a harsh criticism bit the perfect word for the context in biblical terms.

you should read the good book some.

If somebody were to say the same things about black people, you can be dang sure they'd be branded as racist. And rightfully so.

how many years did the blacks keep the whites in slavery. i am still waiting for my 40 acres and mule.


next what exactly was said specifically about whites? that they have never been judged by the color of their skin. my god the truth will set you free.