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[Cheebs]

From Talking Points Memo....

On the call moments ago, top Hillary adviser Howard Wolfson suggested that there's a "pattern" of reprehensible comments by MSNBC personalities, and said outright that the Hillary campaign could no longer "envision a scenario where we would debate on that network given the comments that were made and have been made."

The Clinton team has launched an attack on MSNBC and declares it will no longer accept any debates if they are on MSNBC.

It's all out war with Clinton and MNSBC. I wonder how MSNBC will respond.

 

[Tamanon]

From Talking Points Memo....



The Clinton team has launched an attack on MSNBC and declares it will no longer accept any debates if they are on MSNBC.

It's all out war with Clinton and MNSBC. I wonder how MSNBC will respond.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

So now Pundits can no longer have opinions.

 

[Cheebs]

:lol :lol :lol :lol

So now Pundits can no longer have opinions.

Also the two debates Obama finally agreed to the other day (Hillary wants one a week) were on....MNSBC.

Obama may get his wish for no debates now. He can claim he agreed to two but Hillary's refusal to appear on MSNBC is why they wont happen.

This is going to get interesting. I expect only backlash from MSNBC over this and they rail against her more, too bad MSNBC gets shitty ratings so it wont matter much.

 

[Tamanon]

Also the two debates Obama finally agreed to the other day (Hillary wants one a week) were on....MNSBC.

This is going to get interesting. I expect only backlash from MSNBC over this and they rail against her more, too bad MSNBC gets shitty ratings so it wont matter much.

It's weird, considering her vehement opposition to Fox News until needing to have more debates. It's like she's trying to confine herself only to CNN for some odd reason.......

 

[grandjedi6]

Rur0ni, some of your data is wrong. You are forgetting the Virgin Islands and the delegate counts are wrong for some states since not all delegates are allocated on these days

Upcoming Primaries/Caucuses


February 5 - February 12
Democrats Abroad Primary [Democrats Only] (Democrats -- 7 delegates)

February 9
Kansas Caucus [Republican only] (Republicans -- 39 delegates)

Louisiana Primary (Democrats -- 56 delegates, Republicans -- 20 delegates)

Nebraska Caucus [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 16 delegates)

Virgin Islands Convention [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 3 delegates)

Washington Caucus (Democrats -- 78 delegates, Republicans -- 18 delegates)

February 10
Maine Caucus [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 24 delegates)

 

[harSon]

Hillary Clinton really needs to tone it down.

It's weird, considering her vehement opposition to Fox News until needing to have more debates. It's like she's trying to confine herself only to CNN for some odd reason.......

Because most of them swoon over Hillary?

 

[Cheebs]

The fact is it wont matter. I doubt anyone who favors hillary watches MSNBC at this point anyway. :lol

But it is hilarious, I never seen a candidate declare war on a news organization, not even foxnews.

 

[Rur0ni]

Rur0ni, some of your data is wrong. You are forgetting the Virgin Islands and the delegate counts are wrong for some states since not all delegates are allocated on these days

Upcoming Primaries/Caucuses


February 5 - February 12
Democrats Abroad Primary [Democrats Only] (Democrats -- 7 delegates)

February 9
Kansas Caucus [Republican only] (Republicans -- 39 delegates)

Louisiana Primary (Democrats -- 56 delegates, Republicans -- 20 delegates)

Nebraska Caucus [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 16 delegates)

Virgin Islands Convention [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 3 delegates)

Washington Caucus (Democrats -- 78 delegates, Republicans -- 18 delegates)

February 10
Maine Caucus [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 24 delegates)

Thanks, I did put that in the notes section of the post, hoping someone would respond with good data.

 

[maynerd]

Rur0ni, some of your data is wrong. You are forgetting the Virgin Islands and the delegate counts are wrong for some states since not all delegates are allocated on these days

Upcoming Primaries/Caucuses


February 5 - February 12
Democrats Abroad Primary [Democrats Only] (Democrats -- 7 delegates)

February 9
Kansas Caucus [Republican only] (Republicans -- 39 delegates)

Louisiana Primary (Democrats -- 56 delegates, Republicans -- 20 delegates)

Nebraska Caucus [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 16 delegates)

Virgin Islands Convention [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 3 delegates)

Washington Caucus (Democrats -- 78 delegates, Republicans -- 18 delegates)

February 10
Maine Caucus [Democrats only] (Democrats -- 24 delegates)

I thought WA is 97?

 

[grandjedi6]

Obama's site says he has 910 delegates, MSNBC says 861. Anyone know which is closest to the truth?

MSNBC doesn't count superdelegates but Obama does

I thought WA is 97?

It is, with superdelegates. But they obviously don't count for this

 

[Cheebs]

I thought WA is 97?

no, those others are super delegates

 

[Rur0ni]

I thought WA is 97?

I'll separate, so [D] [T].

Edit: grandjedi, what's with the discrepancy with your numbers and Wikipedia. Such as Nebraska. I see 24 Pledged plus 7 Super = 31 Total....versus your 16 Pledged.

Edit 2: I'll be adding Democrats Abroad for the Tuesday thread.

 

[jett]

WTF is the difference between caucus and primaries?

 

[Stoney Mason]

The fact is it wont matter. I doubt anyone who favors hillary watches MSNBC at this point anyway. :lol

But it is hilarious, I never seen a candidate declare war on a news organization, not even foxnews.

Republican candidates generally run a mock war against the entire media establishment.

 

[Rur0ni]

WTF is the difference between caucus and primaries?

Closed booth vs. Open area discussion and vote? No privacy.

 

[grandjedi6]

WTF is the difference between caucus and primaries?

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/Definitions.html#Cauc

 

[grandjedi6]

I'll separate, so [D] [T].

Edit: grandjedi, what's with the discrepancy with your numbers and Wikipedia. Such as Nebraska. I see 24 Pledged plus 7 Super = 31 Total....versus your 16 Pledged.

Edit 2: I'll be adding Democrats Abroad for the Tuesday thread.

Wikipedia just takes its data from CNN, who have no goddamn clue what they are doing.

 

[Cheebs]

Republican candidates generally run a mock war against the entire media establishment.

I am curious, I know you like MSNBC quite a bit as well as Hillary. Whose side do you take?

 

[Tamanon]

Wikipedia just takes its data from CNN, who have no goddamn clue what they are doing.

Oh I wager they're fully aware of what they're doing with the numbers

 

[Rur0ni]

Wikipedia just takes its data from CNN, who have no goddamn clue what they are doing.

Alright, I'll just use your delegate count, and will just forget about supers all together.

Edit: I'll add the Islands soon then also.

 

[grandjedi6]

Oh I wager they're fully aware of what they're doing with the numbers

Sometimes. When their main guys get on it they data is usually good (though they pretend there are no delegates outside of the US). But anytime before the day of the contest, their data is pretty horrible

Alright, I'll just use your delegate count, and will just forget about supers all together.

Edit: I'll add the Islands soon then also.

Nebraska itself is probably the only wishy one. Only 16 delegates as allocated from the precinct caucuses. The other 8 are determined at the State Convention. However, there is a high chance that Nebraska will allocate those deletes before hand or hte media will assign them anyways. If you really want you can call Nebraska 24 since that is what the media will claim regardless.

 

[sangreal]

From Talking Points Memo....



The Clinton team has launched an attack on MSNBC and declares it will no longer accept any debates if they are on MSNBC.

It's all out war with Clinton and MNSBC. I wonder how MSNBC will respond.

Yet she is willing to debate on FOX

 

[maynerd]

It is, with superdelegates. But they obviously don't count for this

O I C

 

[woeds]

Wait....wut? So Clinton is now pro Fox, but MSBNC isn't objective enough?? :lol

 

[Cheebs]

Yet she is willing to debate on FOX

FOX has been rather kind to Hillary, not so much with Obama. I would wager FOX is more pro hillary than pro McCain, by far.

 

[NME]

FOX has been rather kind to Hillary, not so much with Obama.

Perhaps Hillary is interested in persuing Coulter's endorsement first hand.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I am curious, I know you like MSNBC quite a bit as well as Hillary. Whose side do you take?

Joke?

I tend to hate MSNBC. (I'll admit they are more characters than the other networks but I'm not sure that's a good thing) Unlike a lot of libs I'm not a huge fan of people like Mathews or even Olberman although I'll give it to Olberman that he often makes good points along with his share of bad ones.

There is definitely a pro-Obama bias from most of the media. Hillary isn't going to change that nor will much of anything but I think to generally play the media as the enemy is her strategy here. I think it's a valid strategy especially in an underdog role. She's not going to get a good slant anyway so trying to shame them into balance or embracing the "annoy the media" attitude is consistent with her fighting persona.

 

[Tamanon]

Joke?

I tend to hate MSNBC. (I'll admit they are more characters than the other networks but I'm not sure that's a good thing) Unlike a lot of libs I'm not a huge fan of people like Mathews or even Olberman although I'll give it to Olberman that he often makes good points along with a lot of bad ones.

There is definitely a pro-Obama bias from most of the media. Hillary isn't going to change that nor will much of anything but I think to generally play the media as the enemy is her strategy here. I think it's a valid strategy especially in an underdog role. She's not going to get a good slant anyway so trying to shame them into balance or embracing the "annoy the media" attitude is consistent with her fighting persona.

I think Cheebs was confusing you with maynerd

 

[Cheebs]

Joke?

I tend to hate MSNBC. (I'll admit they are more characters than the other networks but I'm not sure that's a good thing) Unlike a lot of libs I'm not a huge fan of people like Mathews or even Olberman although I'll give it to Olberman that he often makes good points along with his share of bad ones.

There is definitely a pro-Obama bias from most of the media. Hillary isn't going to change that nor will much of anything but I think to generally play the media as the enemy is her strategy here. I think it's a valid strategy especially in an underdog role. She's not going to get a good slant anyway so trying to shame them into balance or embracing the "annoy the media" attitude is consistent with her fighting persona.

She isnt being anti-media though. She is being anti one network. And sorry I assumed you like MNSBC. GAF seems to worship the channel so I just assumed. lol

 

[maynerd]

I think Cheebs was confusing you with maynerd

Why is my name being tossed around in this?

 

[Stoney Mason]

She isnt being anti-media though. She is being anti one network.

I think MSNBC is just a metaphor as the most vocal and obvious one since they are the "liberal" network and Mathews has been the worst offender over time. Ultimately I think the real story is that she is just working the refs. To make it seem like a bigger deal than it is to get the proper spin for future events or actions.

And sorry I assumed you like MNSBC. GAF seems to worship the channel so I just assumed. lol

They are alright if I'm sort of in the mood for politics as a spectator sport like football. (Which occasionally I am. I won't lie.)

But for the most part I prefer more balanced media.

 

[Cheebs]

Matthews has been heard to say, off the record, that in the PA primary he is voting Obama. The guy is normally insanely emotional and obsessive, he is incapable of hiding how he feels about various candidates. Hardball HAS turned into Obama-Hour yes, but it isn't something people should be shocked by.

 

[Hitokage]

But for the most part I prefer more balanced media.

It's a shame they won't debate on NPR like they did in the last primary.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Matthews has been heard to say, off the record, that in the PA primary he is voting Obama. The guy is normally insanely emotional and obsessive, he is incapable of hiding how he feels about various candidates. Hardball HAS turned into Obama-Hour yes, but it isn't something people should be shocked by.

Which in theory I don't have a problem with. This is what 24 hours news has become, punditocracy. So it is what it is. The only annoying bit is that when you point out that potentially they might be biased or point out balance studies, the angry chest thumping and self-denials that follow from the hosts themselves. They think you are questioning their journalistic integrity when you are in fact just analyzing their journalistic integrity. The gatekeepers never like to admit that the gate is rusty or creaks at all.

 

[Stoney Mason]

It's a shame they won't debate on NPR like they did in the last primary.

Agreed. While NPR like any other network has balance issues, they at least generally stop short of turning it into a football rooting environment.

 

[grandjedi6]

CNN and MSNBC are both junk now adays so it really doesn't matter. Hopefully this will lead to a non-CNN/MSNBC/Youtube/insertstupiddebatesponserhere debate

 

[PhoenixDark]

Clinton pulling the victim card like this is making me consider withdrawing my support for her. It seems like this is her next ploy to gain attention and sympathy. MSNBC has a clear Obama/liberal bias but to taking your ball and going home is not the way to handle the situation. I understood her use of playing the victim in NH; like it or not she was gangbanged by Obama and Edwards, it wasn't pretty, and women responded because many have been in that situation before.

Here this is nothing much the ultimate pander. I'm disgusted. I love Matthews btw

 

[syllogism]

WASHINGTON -- Former President Clinton says he's learned a valuable lesson from the dustup over his remarks on the campaign trail _ he can promote his wife's presidential candidacy, but he's not free to defend her.

Clinton also said that everything he said in South Carolina about Illinois Sen. Barack Obama was "factually accurate," but a lot that has been said about what he said is "factually inaccurate."

"I think the mistake that I made is to think that I was a spouse like any other spouse who could defend his candidate," Clinton said, referring to his wife, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is waging a hard-fought contest with Obama for the Democratic nomination.

"I think I can promote Hillary but not defend her because I was president. I have to let her defend herself or have someone else defend her," Clinton said in an interview with NBC News as he was campaigning in Portland, Maine, Thursday.

Not exactly the best way to handle this

 

[jamesinclair]

BBC needs to host debates

 

[GhaleonEB]

Agreed. While NPR like any other network has balance issues, they at least generally stop short of turning it into a football rooting environment.

I liked the last one they did on NPR quite a bit. A focus on three topics, plenty of tiime for answers and no BS tryiing to play the candidates off of each other. Something that detailed with just the two of them would be great.

Won't happen, I'm sure, but it's the kind of debate I'd like to see.

 

[RiskyChris]

Clinton pulling the victim card like this is making me consider withdrawing my support for her. It seems like this is her next ploy to gain attention and sympathy. MSNBC has a clear Obama/liberal bias but to taking your ball and going home is not the way to handle the situation. I understood her use of playing the victim in NH; like it or not she was gangbanged by Obama and Edwards, it wasn't pretty, and women responded because many have been in that situation before.

Here this is nothing much the ultimate pander. I'm disgusted. I love Matthews btw

Hillary, pandering?

No way.

 

[grandjedi6]

BBC needs to host debates

wrong country

Not exactly the best way to handle this

Whenever Bill gets in trouble he goes through 4 phases

1.) Get more aggresive and then finally back off
2.) Stay quiet for a little while
3.) Apologize but spin it into an attack
4.) Begin attacking against the people who got mad at him

 

[Stoney Mason]

I liked the last one they did on NPR quite a bit. A focus on three topics, plenty of tiime for answers and no BS tryiing to play the candidates off of each other. Something that detailed with just the two of them would be great.

Won't happen, I'm sure, but it's the kind of debate I'd like to see.

The traditional media have too much invested into the horserace/boxing match notion of how a debate works for them to be anything more than who looks and sounds the best and who gets off the cutest line of the night. Understandable because everybody likes a good trainwreck but its not exactly thought provoking.

 

[Cooter]

If PD turns on her she has no chance.

 

[Hitokage]

If PD turns on her she has no chance.

We're still safe until JayDubya calls for a minimum wage increase.

 

[Triumph]

BBC needs to host debates

That would be FUCK AWESOME. Have Greg Palast moderate it and watch him as he verbally bitchslaps the little whiny bitches.

 

[harSon]

Did Hillary just use Obama's catch phrase........................................?

 

[Cooter]

We're still safe until JayDubya calls for a minimum wage increase.

:lol

 

[syllogism]

Obama venue reaches capacity; people outside want in

Officials closed the entrances to KeyArena at about 11 this morning, turning away thousands who had gathered to hear Barack Obama speak at noon.

Doors were locked after KeyArena reached its capacity of 20,000, officials said. Those who made it inside were not allowed to leave because police wanted to keep those outside from forcing themselves in. People outside were banging on doors and windows of the arena, as police were trying to maintain peace.

Seattle police sent officers outside into the crowd to physically push people away from the doors so that no one would get crushed or trampled.

Kathryn Hughes, a senior at Gig Harbor High School, said she was trapped inside while her friend was outside, pressed against a KeyArena window, trying to get in. Hughes eventually moved away from the window, and her friend, after being told to do so.

Before the doors opened, thousands of Obama supporters had snaked through Seattle Center, with lines forming before 6 a.m.

William Spiritdancer, of Seattle's Central District, pulled his four children — ages 7 to 14 — out of school to see Obama speak. The teachers were cool about it, he said, and wished they could attend themselves.

"It could be history in the making," Spiritdancer said. "He's inspiring. That's what needed. You have to inspire people to something higher."

Brie Creegan, 19, of Tonasket, who joined the ever-growing line at about 10:30 a.m., said she was excited about attending her first political rally.

"I don't know much about him, but I want to learn more," she said.

Her friend, Brittany Gray, 21, of Lakewood, Pierce County, encouraged Creegan to come. Gray, who has taken off work Saturday to attend her Democratic caucus, said she has read every book written by Obama and his rival candidate, Hillary Clinton.

"Barack has more of an insight," Gray said.

Obama began the day in Georgetown with a tour of McKinstry Co., a mechanical contractor that retrofits buildings to make them energy efficient — and provided a blue-collar backdrop for the herd of media following the candidate.

Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels joined Obama on the tour, which involved visiting a huge workshop and meeting briefly with workers in the cafeteria.

Tim Gruenke, pipe fabrication shop foreman, met Obama during the tour.

"Pretty impressive," he said. "This doesn't happen very often."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004171983_webobama08m.html

 

[Hitokage]

Riot!