Support NeoGAF

[jeremy70583]

Alright, so I started hitting up the gym about a month ago, and I am putting on a little muscle, but I am also putting on a little weight (about 5lbs). My main goal is to trim up my midsection. Will I have to gain muscle first before i can cut, or will I be able to put on a little muscle while dropping fat? It seems to me by the science that building muscle and dropping fat would be mutually exclusive. So anyway, here is my routine and meal plan, critique away.
Edit: 6'4 195lbs 24% body fat
Meals:
Morning:steel cut oats, plain with splenda
lunch:chicken breast or turkey burger on wheat with mashed potatoes(plain) or mixed vegies
snack: strawberries or an apple
after gym: 2 scoop protein shake with water on monday/thursday
dinner: same as lunch

Routine:
Monday: 10m walk to warm up, DB press, DB flys, Incined press/flys, bicep curls, tricep press, sitting row, lat press
Tuesday: 10m walk to warm up legs and crunches
Thursday: same as monday
Friday: same as tuesday

 

[parrotbeak]

Routine:
Monday: 10m walk to warm up, DB press, DB flys, Incined press/flys, bicep curls, tricep press, sitting row, lat press
Tuesday: 10m walk to warm up legs and crunches
Thursday: same as monday
Friday: same as tuesday

What's the Tuesday warm up legs for?

If you're new to weights, i would do Starting Strength. The book and the workout.

Will I have to gain muscle first before i can cut, or will I be able to put on a little muscle while dropping fat? It seems to me by the science that building muscle and dropping fat would be mutually exclusive.

mcrae asked this on 5/24 and there's some discussion on the previous page. I reposted this video, which gives one opinion. MjFrancis cited some experts to read. All that stuff is extremely complicated, and I don't really have a good grasp of it, but the basic answer is yes, but it's very difficult and slow.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I think I created the ultimate protein shake earlier. 4 scoops of whey and 2 cups skim milk. Good god...

That's a lot of whey...isn't it 1 cup of milk per scoop?

 

[jeremy70583]

What's the Tuesday warm up legs for?

If you're new to weights, i would do Starting Strength. The book and the workout.

sorry guess i phreased that wrong, 10m of walking, then start leg workout

 

[parrotbeak]

sorry guess i phreased that wrong, 10m of walking, then start leg workout

What's your leg workout? I probably still recommend SS for a good basic full body program that will ingrain the basic lifts into your muscle memory.

 

[SeanR1221]

That's a lot of whey...isn't it 1 cup of milk per scoop?

Maybe. I will say it's kept me feeling full.

 

[parrotbeak]

Maybe. I will say it's kept me feeling full.

LOL. That would probably make me throw up if I drank it in one sitting. How long are you taking to drink it? I think most people can only absorb like 30 g of protein in a meal at a time, or something like that, although I have no idea how they test that. I take like 2-3 scoops after a workout, and seems to be doing good. Any more than that and I have trouble finishing it. Less than that and I'll probably be sore the next day.

 

[FallingEdge]

I think most people can only absorb like 30 g of protein in a meal at a time

That's not true, it is one of those "bb myths" like you having to eat 6 meals a day to keep up metabolism and whatnot.

 

[mr2xxx]

Alright, so I started hitting up the gym about a month ago, and I am putting on a little muscle, but I am also putting on a little weight (about 5lbs). My main goal is to trim up my midsection. Will I have to gain muscle first before i can cut, or will I be able to put on a little muscle while dropping fat? It seems to me by the science that building muscle and dropping fat would be mutually exclusive. So anyway, here is my routine and meal plan, critique away.
Edit: 6'4 195lbs 24% body fat
Meals:
Morning:steel cut oats, plain with splenda
lunch:chicken breast or turkey burger on wheat with mashed potatoes(plain) or mixed vegies
snack: strawberries or an apple
after gym: 2 scoop protein shake with water on monday/thursday
dinner: same as lunch

Routine:
Monday: 10m walk to warm up, DB press, DB flys, Incined press/flys, bicep curls, tricep press, sitting row, lat press
Tuesday: 10m walk to warm up legs and crunches
Thursday: same as monday
Friday: same as tuesday

You are not eating enough to build muscle and also you have to incorporate a leg workout. Best thing to do at your size is focus on cutting, you should add more calories to your diet even if your are cutting. Try and do some research on how many calories you should be getting, I would help but right now I'm mentally exhausted from my workout.

 

[jeremy70583]

What's your leg workout? I probably still recommend SS for a good basic full body program that will ingrain the basic lifts into your muscle memory.

my leg workout just consists of the machines, extensions,curls,press. I was looking at the SS and I guess I will have to incorporate deadlifts and squats into my routine. Is using a cage okay for squats, or does that hinder the development of secondary muscles? I've never done squats before and don't want to fall learning =).

 

[LJ11]

LOL. That would probably make me throw up if I drank it in one sitting. How long are you taking to drink it? I think most people can only absorb like 30 g of protein in a meal at a time, or something like that, although I have no idea how they test that. I take like 2-3 scoops after a workout, and seems to be doing good. Any more than that and I have trouble finishing it. Less than that and I'll probably be sore the next day.

That much whey would probably give most people the runs.

 

[Luscious LeftFoot]

I think I created the ultimate protein shake earlier. 4 scoops of whey and 2 cups skim milk. Good god...

I'm not sure how additional scoops of protein makes for an ultimate shake.

Someone posted a recipe that was over 2000 calories. That thing was scary.

 

[jeremy70583]

You are not eating enough to build muscle and also you have to incorporate a leg workout. Best thing to do at your size is focus on cutting, you should add more calories to your diet even if your are cutting. Try and do some research on how many calories you should be getting, I would help but right now I'm mentally exhausted from my workout.

I realize that I am eating about 2000calories a day, which is not enough to build muscle, but do u have any theories to why I am gaining weight?

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I realize that I am eating about 2000calories a day, which is not enough to build muscle, but do u have any theories to why I am gaining weight?

Well how much do you weigh?

 

[SeanR1221]

That much whey would probably give most people the runs.

Creatine used to give me the runs so I stopped taking it. Protein never seems to.

I seriously need to get more cottage cheese. I'm literally just eating peanut-butter right now.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Creatine used to give me the runs so I stopped taking it. Protein never seems to.

I seriously need to get more cottage cheese. I'm literally just eating peanut-butter right now.

Some of these diets you guys post just make me go There's so much information out here in the internet, USE IT!

 

[SeanR1221]

Some of these diets you guys post just make me go There's so much information out here in the internet, USE IT!

It's not like I have my hand lodged in a jar and I'm stuffing my face.

 

[jeremy70583]

Well how much do you weigh?

When I started Weightlifting, i was 190lbs, now I am 195. 6'4, scale says 24%BF

 

[LJ11]

Creatine used to give me the runs so I stopped taking it. Protein never seems to.

I seriously need to get more cottage cheese. I'm literally just eating peanut-butter right now.

Go get some Turkey burgers from Costco, the Kirkland brand has 35g of protein. Dozen for 10 bucks.

 

[SeanR1221]

Go get some Turkey burgers from Costco, the Kirkland brand has 35g of protein. Dozen for 10 bucks.

I get those! They're great, I'm just out right now. I also started getting the fully cooked grilled chicken over the raw. It's nice to pop one in the microwave while I'm showering after a workout and eating it really quick. It's a little more expensive, but worth it.

Sometimes I eat tuna from the can. I think that's about 35g of protein too.

I think I'm going to cut out all cereals/oatmeals from my breakfast, and stick to eggs, turkey bacon, cottage cheese and whey, unless there's something terrible I'm missing about this.

I'll still stick to peanutbutter on wheat and almonds for lunch, because it stays good in my car when I'm out seeing clients.

 

[MjFrancis]

Yo MjFrancis! You should hook me up with the source images of your Bruce Lee avs. Gives me motivation to hit the gym.

I just Google them, really. I find one I like and crop it to size in Photoshop. That's about all I'm able to do for photo manipulation. Thanks for noticing, though, he always inspires me to kick a little more ass than I currently do. Do something slightly more awesome than I would have done.

One time to the point of what might have been plantar fasciitis, but that's what happens when you say "Bruce Lee wouldn't let this slow him down!" when you're not Bruce Lee. I mean, you have to laugh at yourself from time to time, right?

200 pages. Good bye thread.

NNNOOOOOO!!!!

I have it's pretty daunting.

As I said I'm a runner who wants to build muscle.
I've done minor weights all of my life despite having saucy legs.

Great, I run, too! Not nearly as much as I used to, but running and jogging are what I used to initially get "in shape," whatever that meant for me at the time. It's great even if only for 3K a couple times a week, but I still run. And hike. And box. But lifting heavy shit builds muscle and strength, ergo I lift heavy shit four days a week.

If you want to build a little bit of muscle, you'll require a caloric surplus. You won't need to bump it up to anything drastically high, but probably somewhere around 500 calories over your BMR (basal metabolic rate). That way you'll minimize fat gain while maximizing muscle gain. Keep in mind you also have to take advantage of heavy (relative term) compound movements. Squats, deadlifts, presses, rows - all of these will help you build the body you're looking for. Probably help your sprinting performance as well.

It may be daunting, but stick with it. Pick a program and give it 12 weeks, and you'll be well on your way.

 

[Buckethead]

If you want to build a little bit of muscle, you'll require a caloric surplus. You won't need to bump it up to anything drastically high, but probably somewhere around 500 calories over your BMR (basal metabolic rate).

Yeah I'm wayyyyyyyyy under my BMR right now.

It may be daunting, but stick with it. Pick a program and give it 12 weeks, and you'll be well on your way.

I was more talking about the kineso-jibberish, but yeah. I'll figure it out, have a good group of people to give me advice IRL and then of course GAF as well.

 

[Masta_Killah]

This is why I don't like the word "tone" being in the popular lexicon (my own problem, I know), because it describes something that doesn't exist. Or poorly describes it at the very least.

I prefer ripped and swole....

I do cardio because I like the challenge and the way it makes me feel.


I have it's pretty daunting.

As I said I'm a runner who wants to build muscle.
I've done minor weights all of my life despite having saucy legs.


I like Clay Matthews' arms but by no means want to get as big as him.

I want to grow muscle in my arms and trim up some fat around my waist.
I have a lot of muscle on my legs which is very defined and want to add that to the upper body.

What kind of runner do you want to be?

The guy on the right lifts heavy compound exercises and concentrates on explosive, quick reps. Guy on the left just runs long distances... ;P

 

[MjFrancis]

Love that picture, Masta. It's a little extreme but it gets the point across.

Yeah I'm wayyyyyyyyy under my BMR right now.

You could probably up your calories and find some gains with what you're doing now. Anything is always better than nothing, but if you're able to get your friends to point you in a better direction, awesome. No point running in place for months when you could be kicking ass and taking names.

 

[parrotbeak]

That's not true, it is one of those "bb myths" like you having to eat 6 meals a day to keep up metabolism and whatnot.

Ya, it sounds like bs. Shitty that I still have ideas like that stuck in my head even after years of having the internet to correct misinformation. I'm sure it varies a great deal by person and other factors.

 

[BertramCooper]

It's great to push yourself, but just don't hurt yourself looking for your limit. A month really isn't very long in terms of a fitness program. Exercise should be a lifetime thing, not something to be taken to an extreme in relatively short periods.

What were you doing before this?

I did about two cycles of P90X beforehand.

I'm in the best shape I've been in in ages (I've lost about 100 pounds since January 2010), but I upped my cardio about two months ago to burn away some of this annoying fat that's still plaguing my midsection.

It's gone really, really well. The P90X/Insanity hybrid I've been doing has gone extremely well, and my morning 4-5 mile run feels extremely satisfying. The fact that I can run 4 miles without stopping still blows my mind. It may not sound impressive to folks in this thread, but when you've struggled with your weight for as long as I have, it's just the best feeling in the world.

I haven't had any energy issues until this week, so I think it my body is just a bit fatigued. I'm getting some rest and should be back to normal by next week.

 

[parrotbeak]

That's really great, congrats!

I need to up my cardio soon and change things around. I really want to keep going on Stronglifts, but my doctor said my blood pressure is getting high, which I've never had a problem with. But I also always did a lot of cardio, and I've cut down a lot to focus on SL. I probably also need to take another look at my diet and lower my sodium.

 

[MjFrancis]

Bertram, I'm impressed with that improvement. That's consistent progress for 1 1/2 years and a continued yearning to go above mediocrity. Keep relaxing this week and swing back into things next week and you'll feel much better for it.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I BB benched for the first time in years. Literally YEARS. Sadly, I was only able to bench 220 for one rep:

135: warm up 10 reps
155:10 reps
175: 10 reps
185: 6 reps
205: 4 reps
215: 3 reps
220: 1 rep

My goal is 250. Then it will be 275.

With me being on a proper diet and eating right, I should be able to achieve 250 in about, say 6-8 weeks.

 

[Lamel]

When I started Weightlifting, i was 190lbs, now I am 195. 6'4, scale says 24%BF

That could just be water-weight, I mean at 190 pounds and 24% bodyfat, with medium exercise intensity and 1 gram of protein per pound, you would need around 3400+ calories to consistently gain weight man. I got those numbers from the Three Coaching Cunningham Excel.

 

[BertramCooper]

Bertram, I'm impressed with that improvement. That's consistent progress for 1 1/2 years and a continued yearning to go above mediocrity. Keep relaxing this week and swing back into things next week and you'll feel much better for it.

That's really great, congrats!

I need to up my cardio soon and change things around. I really want to keep going on Stronglifts, but my doctor said my blood pressure is getting high, which I've never had a problem with. But I also always did a lot of cardio, and I've cut down a lot to focus on SL. I probably also need to take another look at my diet and lower my sodium.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

It's been one of the biggest challenges of my entire life, but goddamn, it's totally worth it.

One of the unfortunate side effects is that it really messes with my head. I have to constantly remind myself that one burrito or one missed workout isn't going to make me instantly gain 20 pounds. I'm so terrified of slipping back into my old habits that I tend to get really stressed out over it.

That said, I've been able to maintain this for so long that I don't really ever seeing myself going back.

 

[Cooter]

I BB benched for the first time in years. Literally YEARS. Sadly, I was only able to bench 220 for one rep:

135: warm up 10 reps
155:10 reps
175: 10 reps
185: 6 reps
205: 4 reps
215: 3 reps
220: 1 rep

My goal is 250. Then it will be 275.

With me being on a proper diet and eating right, I should be able to achieve 250 in about, say 6-8 weeks.

That looks like way too many warmup reps if you want to gauge your max. I would do 5x135, 3or4x185 and go straight for your max.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I'll try your approach next week when I bench again and see if the reduction in sets/reps will give me more power.

 

[JB1981]

Of course it will give you more power

 

[ShaneB]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

It's been one of the biggest challenges of my entire life, but goddamn, it's totally worth it.

One of the unfortunate side effects is that it really messes with my head. I have to constantly remind myself that one burrito or one missed workout isn't going to make me instantly gain 20 pounds. I'm so terrified of slipping back into my old habits that I tend to get really stressed out over it.

That said, I've been able to maintain this for so long that I don't really ever seeing myself going back.

I'm right there with ya, so know you're not alone.

Just tonight I was at the gym, and my heart and head just wasn't in it. Got on the bike for 10 minutes for a warm up, walked around a bit, and just didn't care to do anything, so I left.

Know I'm bogged down in a stressful situation with a bunch of other stuff, so I'm just moving on and will get back to it tomorrow night when the gym isn't so busy.

My motivation right now is being ready to show off in the summer, being proud to walk around without a shirt on, finally wanting to go to a beach, all that good stuff, so no way I'm going back to being old Shane.

Had a bf% test done again the other day, and I'm holding steady around 11.5% or so, so that's always a good sign. Have seen big improvements over my lifts and I just like seeing that progress, and I'm finally back to taking a notebook and logging everything again. Did that when I first started, but lost track of things, but it helps so much to write it down.

 

[Dany]

I've lost 40 pounds since January, I'm currently had 160 even.

My current routine is treadmill for 55 minutes, 15 on a steep incline walk, 30 running and 10 minutes walking, then 5-15 minutes on a bike to cool down then use the equpment for a half hour or more

 

[Buckethead]

You could probably up your calories and find some gains with what you're doing now.

Yeah I need to diversify a bit as Masta said but am seeing good gains and cutting at the same time so I'm somewhat hesitant to add more calories slowing the cuttage.

 

[DragonKnight]

I prefer ripped and swole....





What kind of runner do you want to be?

The guy on the right lifts heavy compound exercises and concentrates on explosive, quick reps. Guy on the left just runs long distances... ;P

Dem cavs! How do you get those?

 

[rando14]

Calf raises, calf presses, and lots of sprinting.

 

[Great King Bowser]

If it's the same Stronglifts I'm doing, it's supposed to be 5x5, but dls are 1x5.

Yeah, DLs are supposed to be 1x5, which I was doing for a while, but I just prefer to do extra sets at a lower weight. Managed 116kg 1x5 before though.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Calf raises, calf presses, and lots of sprinting.

More like genetics. I've done just about everything and I can't get my calves to grow. They're cut, but that's about it.

 

[DragonKnight]

More like genetics. I've done just about everything and I can't get my calves to grow. They're cut, but that's about it.

That's what I thought. Ah well.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Alright Fitness Gaf, here we go.

I am 225 pounds around 6 feet and have a bigger body type in general. I feel that I should be around 185 or 190. With a shirt on I don't look like I have a belly/tire but I do.

I currently do some exercising, I do p90x (usually arms and back one day and plyo the next), and play frisbee golf a few times a week. My issue is I am a big foodie and love to cook and eat. I eat well all week, but on the weekend I get tired of what is in my house and usually go out.

The main issue other than the food is that I have limited time, I work out of town so go to bed early and get home late, so I usually have an hour to 130 a night to work out.

What do you all suggest I do for workouts to lose fat? I know p90x twice a week isn't enough even paired with walking 18 holes. I need something I can do in that time period.

Also I need to know how you guys eat each week and what to do on weekends when I just want something better than the stuff I buy for the week. What food can I buy that is good for me but I will want to eat on weekends?

Thanks for any help, I just can't seem to stay motivated after doing a few workouts a week and eating decent all week...

 

[MjFrancis]

Also I need to know how you guys eat each week and what to do on weekends when I just want something better than the stuff I buy for the week. What food can I buy that is good for me but I will want to eat on weekends?

Just a quick aside for this portion of your post, but plain Greek yogurt with cold or frozen kiwis, blueberries, or pineapple is fucking awesome.

 

[rando14]

More like genetics. I've done just about everything and I can't get my calves to grow. They're cut, but that's about it.

What exercises do you do? My calves are huge but are calves really that dependent on genetics alone?

 

[deadbeef]

Just a quick aside for this portion of your post, but plain Greek yogurt with cold or frozen kiwis, blueberries, or pineapple is fucking awesome.

Throw in a scoop of vanilla protein powder, stir it in the greek yogurt, top with blueberries and a few tablespoons of granola. Delicious.

 

[Masta_Killah]

Alright Fitness Gaf, here we go.

I am 225 pounds around 6 feet and have a bigger body type in general. I feel that I should be around 185 or 190. With a shirt on I don't look like I have a belly/tire but I do.

I currently do some exercising, I do p90x (usually arms and back one day and plyo the next), and play frisbee golf a few times a week. My issue is I am a big foodie and love to cook and eat. I eat well all week, but on the weekend I get tired of what is in my house and usually go out.

The main issue other than the food is that I have limited time, I work out of town so go to bed early and get home late, so I usually have an hour to 130 a night to work out.

What do you all suggest I do for workouts to lose fat? I know p90x twice a week isn't enough even paired with walking 18 holes. I need something I can do in that time period.

Also I need to know how you guys eat each week and what to do on weekends when I just want something better than the stuff I buy for the week. What food can I buy that is good for me but I will want to eat on weekends?

Thanks for any help, I just can't seem to stay motivated after doing a few workouts a week and eating decent all week...

Compound exercises doing either a 3x5 or 5x5 starting strength routine. Two or three exercises per session and you should be done no longer than an 1 1/2 hours. Good thing about these routines is that you only have to train 3x a week. You can even do 2x a week.

 

[MjFrancis]

What exercises do you do? My calves are huge but are calves really that dependent on genetics alone?

Legend has it Arnold worked his calves religiously to bring them up to spec. I'm inclined to believe the genetics argument, but I've never given painful effort to go ball to the wall with calf training, either. My brother's been a beast (6'3," 215lbs @15-ish%) but when he complained to me of his calves I asked him what he did for them: 3x15 calf raises. Per week. *facepalm*

I don't know since I've never tried, but if most people paid attention to their calves as much as their biceps, I'm pretty sure they could get better results. The answer's definitely more than three measly sets a week, but Arnold was seen loading 1,000 pounds on the calf machine with full ROM and do 20+ sets of different exercises for them. Much more than most people attempt.

People who are or used to be obese may also have bigger calves due to the continuous progressive bearing of excess weight. My calves would be bigger if they had to lug around 300 pounds with them where ever they went.

 

[MjFrancis]

Throw in a scoop of vanilla protein powder, stir it in the greek yogurt, top with blueberries and a few tablespoons of granola. Delicious.

My next bulk is going to be glorious, thank you. Between these and the homemade protein bars... I'll be set.

 

[X-Frame]

Legend has it Arnold worked his calves religiously to bring them up to spec. I'm inclined to believe the genetics argument, but I've never given painful effort to go ball to the wall with calf training, either. My brother's been a beast (6'3," 215lbs @15-ish%) but when he complained to me of his calves I asked him what he did for them: 3x15 calf raises. Per week. *facepalm*

I don't know since I've never tried, but if most people paid attention to their calves as much as their biceps, I'm pretty sure they could get better results. The answer's definitely more than three measly sets a week, but Arnold was seen loading 1,000 pounds on the calf machine with full ROM and do 20+ sets of different exercises for them. Much more than most people attempt.

People who are or used to be obese may also have bigger calves due to the continuous progressive bearing of excess weight. My calves would be bigger if they had to lug around 300 pounds with them where ever they went.

The way I remember it is that calves, while a muscle like any other, are more dependent upon frequency and volume rather than worrying about increasing so much weight.

Like you said, people that tend to be heavy don't have toothpick calves -- they're big. Mine would be considered big as well and I never touched them when I lifted. They're at least 1.5x the size of my arms.

But if we strip the genetic argument and assume that calves can gain a lot just by walking around with a decent body weight .. it would likely that hitting the calf machine or doing donkey raises, etc maybe 3x per week for high reps would get them growing.

Everyone's different -- but that would make the most sense.