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Official Upscaling Thread or let's make old games look better 32xAA AND 16xAF PLZ OMG
- Thread starter Pharmacy
- Start date
Leidenfrost
Member
Tain said:
I believe it was something about the original Playstation lacking the floating point math precision to consistently render textures with the correct perspective. And that this problem was inherent in Playstation executables--not something you could get around with an emulator patch, you'd actually have to recompile the binaries using code that used more precisely declared variables.
...IIRC
NES: Personally, I really like Nestopia. Lots of different ones out there will get the job done just fine, though
SNES: Zsnes is a general favorite.
Genesis: Lots of people will suggest Gens, but Kega Fusion whomps it all over the place. Fusion is just awesome.
GB/GBC/GBA: I'm guessing VisualBoy Advance.
PS1: ePSXe is nice, but I think I like pSX Emulator a little bit more. Hard to tell if it's as compatible as ePSXe yet, and it doesn't pretty up games, but it's less high level so there's way less configuration involved. Use 'em both.
Saturn: SSF, from what I hear. I can't run it because I have the last CPU in the world to not support SSE2.
N64: I'm not sure.
SNES: Zsnes is a general favorite.
Genesis: Lots of people will suggest Gens, but Kega Fusion whomps it all over the place. Fusion is just awesome.
GB/GBC/GBA: I'm guessing VisualBoy Advance.
PS1: ePSXe is nice, but I think I like pSX Emulator a little bit more. Hard to tell if it's as compatible as ePSXe yet, and it doesn't pretty up games, but it's less high level so there's way less configuration involved. Use 'em both.
Saturn: SSF, from what I hear. I can't run it because I have the last CPU in the world to not support SSE2.
N64: I'm not sure.
needlesmcgirk
Member
Are there any emulators out there that actually upscale like this, or are these just images you guys are putting through photoshop?
TylerPwnsYou1986
Banned
needlesmcgirk said:
None of those pictures are photoshopped. The images that you see have took a nice dose of AA and are probably running at a high resolution through some type of emulator (Snes, PS, and N64). If you would take the time to go through all the pages of this thread and enjoy its awesomeness like i did, you would probably know this.
fahr said:
That's not possible, I think. Most vertex operations were done using the Geometry Transformation Engine, which used fixed precision values. Projecting vertices from 3D space to 2D space was also done by the GTE, and it didn't use a true projection matrix for that, aside from using low precision data. This causes rounding "errors" when calculating 2D positions for the vertices, making them jitter when moving (how much they jitter depends on the scale at which they are being calculated at).
Even if a emulator makes the GTE use floating point internally, the games would still feed it with low precision data, so it wouldn't be much different.
Leidenfrost said:
Not quite. The DS doesn't have floating point either, but it can do perspective correct texturing.
The issue was that Playstation "GPU" only worked with 2D (screen) coordinates, which were fed form the GTE.
A GPU needs depth information in order to adjust texture mapping based on the perspective. One could add support for depth information on emulators, but like Leidenfrost said, games would need to be recompiled from their original source to make use of it.
Death_Born
Banned
McLovin said:
ZSNES is the most reliable IMO, but you could try Snes9X as well. They both have A-A.
Zombie James
Banned
McLovin said:
ZSNES.
Fun Fact: I redesigned their logo for them a couple of years ago. It got put up on their site as part of their redesign for one day, then there a conflict between the team and whoever did the design for them so the entire redesign was scrapped.
Since I recently built a new PC I just played around a bit with the latest version of PCSX2 and the GsDX plugin. All the following screenshots are with 2048*2048 internal rendering resolution.
Tales of the Abyss works almost perfectly from what I've tested, and looks really nice:
Persona 3 also looks great, but is not fully playable due to some graphical bugs:
Tales of the Abyss works almost perfectly from what I've tested, and looks really nice:
Persona 3 also looks great, but is not fully playable due to some graphical bugs:
Mamesj said:
The PSX was an interesting piece of HW. It had what was effectively the first (large scale) 3D accelerator. However, to get it as fast as it was, Krazy Ken had to make it integer-based.
Due to this, round-off errors causes some 'interesting' artifacts on geometry at certain distances. They would warp, etc.
Programmers figured out ways around this in later games ... but the artifact is pretty obvious in many older games.
To the OP, the only way around it would be if someone made an emulator that actually didn't emulate the GPU as it really functions, and instead did not have round-off errors. I would expect that would be a bit of a pain to get general emulation that differs so much from the original spec. Applying higher res and post-processing effects is one thing ... changing the underlying rendering calculations would probably be more problematic. I'm sure it could be done, but I'm not sure there is enough incentive for the emu crew to do it at this point.
Edit:
Ok so I just realized I replied to a 5 month old post.
Who resurrects these things... -_-
Console games have been using vertex data in 16bit Fixed point or even lower precision formats for at least the past 8years - and clearly it doesn't create jitters (unless you use wrong transformation order).
And fixed point transformation pipeline should not have this issue either - in fact when dealing with accumulating errors it tends to be easier to control stability of operations in fixed point.
Ask devs sometime why noone writes rasterizers that operate with floating point numbers internally.
Anyway I've observed PS1 game look more 'stable' under PSP emulation then on PC, but I am not sure if I should attribute that to higher resolution rendering revealing something, or just buggy emulation (PC emulation is still far from perfect even after all this time).
And the whole concept of increasing resolution is ripe for creating precision issues that don't exist in native space.
Ok so I just realized I replied to a 5 month old post.
Who resurrects these things... -_-
That's not true.M3d10n said:
Console games have been using vertex data in 16bit Fixed point or even lower precision formats for at least the past 8years - and clearly it doesn't create jitters (unless you use wrong transformation order).
And fixed point transformation pipeline should not have this issue either - in fact when dealing with accumulating errors it tends to be easier to control stability of operations in fixed point.
Ask devs sometime why noone writes rasterizers that operate with floating point numbers internally.
Anyway I've observed PS1 game look more 'stable' under PSP emulation then on PC, but I am not sure if I should attribute that to higher resolution rendering revealing something, or just buggy emulation (PC emulation is still far from perfect even after all this time).
And the whole concept of increasing resolution is ripe for creating precision issues that don't exist in native space.
Demigod Mac
Member
Can anyone recommend settings for FF7?
The best I've gotten it to look is using Pete's D3D plugin, but it's missing the battle swirls (and yes, I've enabled the special fixes section for that option - no luck). The screen just freezes for a second and then the battle screen loads up.
Pete's OpenGL and OpenGL2 plugins have other problems with FF7.
This happens no matter what emulator I use, be it ePSXe or PSXeven.
The best I've gotten it to look is using Pete's D3D plugin, but it's missing the battle swirls (and yes, I've enabled the special fixes section for that option - no luck). The screen just freezes for a second and then the battle screen loads up.
Pete's OpenGL and OpenGL2 plugins have other problems with FF7.
This happens no matter what emulator I use, be it ePSXe or PSXeven.
Mr. Spinnington
Banned
reminds me of this awesome thread, don't ask me why
Mr. Wonderful
Member
God that was a huge update. I really wish they would update the upscaling again. I want my games to look like the PCSX2 emulator. Of all places, on the PS3, they should.Mr. Spinnington said:
Alcahest
Member
calling all Super Famicom video output experts (problem with HDTV):
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3263.msg21712
Thanks for any help.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3263.msg21712
Thanks for any help.
