equippedwithtowel
Member
Zelda can be cute.
Just WW cute, not SS cute.
And I liked, SS. Just not that much.
Just WW cute, not SS cute.
And I liked, SS. Just not that much.
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ONM: Miyamoto: "Eiji Aonuma doesn't need me anymore."
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
I think the Zelda franchise is just fine except for the aggressive hand-holding in SS. If they tone that down, it will all be fine. I'm not saying Aonuma is god, but he can make a good Zelda game for sure.
I don't know how much influence Miyamoto had on individual Zelda games though. Maybe he was what saved those games, maybe he was the cause for the worst aspects of them, maybe it was neither of those. But if Miyamoto says Aonuma doesn't need him, sure.
I don't know how much influence Miyamoto had on individual Zelda games though. Maybe he was what saved those games, maybe he was the cause for the worst aspects of them, maybe it was neither of those. But if Miyamoto says Aonuma doesn't need him, sure.
Did you play Pikmin 3?
He's the general producer of that game and by far had the most hands on he's had of a game in a long time. And the game is absolutely fantastic.
Man I wish he would. My biggest gripe with mario platformers these days is that the story isn't even existant. I would love me a ratchetesque mario.
GregLombardi
Member
I beg to differ. But we'll see.
I haven't played MM since it first came out so I'm pretty sure that its nothing but nostalgia at this point guiding my opinion, but... I wish whoever directs the next Zelda's would just take inspiration from MM. I thought every facet of the game was very strong and that's amazing considering OOT was pretty damn strong too.
I bought MM on VC a few months ago. I want to see how it holds up for me...
I bought MM on VC a few months ago. I want to see how it holds up for me...
The only thing that doesn't hold up is the game's introduction, but it was tasked with introducing a lot of concepts and it's in replays that it doesn't hold up. If your already familiar with the world and the mechanics of the game, the first three day cycle you're forced to go through is a bit of a slog. It would have been nice to include some option to abridge this section (like letting Link sleep through a day or two). Maybe they will address this in the eventual 3DS remake.
GayForMaster
Banned
So Miyamoto only directed Ocarina of Time...?
Can't say I can't trust him then. He's a genius clearly. But Eiji Aonuma can deliver as well.
Wind waker, Twighlight Princess and Majora's Mask were all amazing games (MM is still better than Oot imo).
Can't say I can't trust him then. He's a genius clearly. But Eiji Aonuma can deliver as well.
Wind waker, Twighlight Princess and Majora's Mask were all amazing games (MM is still better than Oot imo).
H_Prestige
Banned
No, it wasn't always "cartoony". The saturday morning cartoon feel has only been present since WW. Prior to that the series had the grim dark fairy tale look nailed.
When the Hell did a mainline Mario game need a story? We have stories in the RPG games!
Haunted
Member
I know Nintendo have younger people working for them, but Miyamoto still mentioned the Group managers when asked "who his star apprentices are". So that's telling.
Spieler Eins
Member
lol. Only MM was real dark and even that was full of weird looking cartoon characters that you wouldn't find anywhere near your typical fantasy RPG. And even when the machines didn't allow for a proper graphical representation, the artworks were always anime-esque.
Look through Hyrule Historia, the only game close to ,,grim fairy tale'' is TP.
Honestly if you think the hand-holding in Skyward Sword was bad I hope you never play Dream Team. It makes Skyward Sword look like Ghouls'N'Ghosts.
H_Prestige
Banned
Well, I played TP and nothing about it was grim or fairy tale like. Just because every thing was brown and yellow doesn't mean it was "dark".
That pink bunny you turn into in ALTTP sure was grim and dark
Omegasquash
Member
Goddamn I'm feeling that. I love the gameplay of Mario & Luigi, and the expert challenges are dope too, but enough with the tutorials. It literally has made me put the game down for a bit. I'd rather play the game than be told how to play the game. Christ.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Okay, now you've got me really curious to play it for myself. I had heard a lot of things about SS that made me hesitant to dive in, but I loved the crap out of Minish Cap.
I'm digging Twilight Princess for the most part, aside from the imprecise motion control attacks, and I know SS improves on that. It's just the hand holding and drawn-out length complaints that have me wary. Twilight Princess is already taking me an eternity.
Like that fat fairy. Or the Goron in OOT. Or Tingle in MM. In fact several of the bosses in ALTTP looked rather funny more than terrifying. Also, the scariest version of Redead in my opinion were those in WW.
fart town usa
Banned
I think skyward sword is pretty bad. It's definitely the worst 3D Zelda. It's repetitive beyond compare and is downright "annoying" to play, at least to me it is.
I love Skyward Sword, I think it had the best gameplay out of any Zelda game but I can definitely understand why some didn't like it. Nintendo needs to listen to the fans this time. They need to build a large epic Zelda with a vast overworld. I am not sure if Aonuma is even interested in that vision. If not he needs to be moved to another project.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I agree. I know a lot of people hear Aonuma referencing Elder Scrolls and imagine a sellout to WPRG conventions, but I think there's a lot from that series' world building and sense of exploration and discovery that would really mesh well with Hyrule.
I don't think Zelda needs a large and epic (and empty) overworld. You can't get a densely populated and large world at the same time. Only Rockstar can pull it off. Skyward Sword had the right idea with dense "levels" but they were too disconnected and unnatural. The new Zelda will need to fix that.
That's not harsh at all. It's absolute truth.
NeonZ
Member
Wind Waker is just an HD port of the worst selling flagship Zelda, A Link Between Worlds is a 2d-style Zelda game, which haven't really sold very well ever since the series made a jump to 3d.
I think those two games will clearly underperform just looking at the series' history. It doesn't need to go into new lows to do that. Wii U Zelda is completely different and should do about as well as a Wii U game can do by that point, unless they take it in some direction that isn't commercially viable again (like another 2d style Zelda or somehow decide to make it in Skyward Sword's style again). They've talked about progressing through dungeons in any order and a generally more open experience for the next Zelda, but, considering Nintendo from the last two years, I wouldn't be surprised if they're chosen through a menu and then afterwards they wonder why people are complaining...
If anything, I'd say that it's Fujibayashi who isn't interested in that vision. Both Minish Cap and Skyward Sword seem to follow a structure where the "overworld" is composed by completely separate branches that mostly progress in a single direction, with the only sequence breaks being basically shortcuts inside each branch. Both also only had a single city in the center of the world.
I liked Skyward Sword, but that's mostly due to the core gameplay. I can easily understand why people dislike it, especially because I couldn't even finish Minish Cap.
Aquamarine
Member
It would be interesting if Nintendo partnered with Monolith's core development studio to work on a massive, open-world Zelda.
Monolith Soft played a major part in the development of Skyward Sword, but that's just the support studio. I'm talking about the part of Monolith Soft that developed Xenobade and is now working on X.
this so much
I'm down with that.
Oh man I can already tell you that you will hate that game.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Tekkie said:
Not sure where the numbers will fit all-time, but if the rate that the Wind Waker Miiverse is growing is any indication, there's a ton of interest. In the span of 5 days it's already one of the largest single-game communities, and the physical release isn't even out yet. And there's already a Zelda-series Miiverse to draw general conversation away from that, too.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
There is nothing wrong with whimsical, odd or cartoonish characters. As fans of "cute" have pointed out the the Zelda franchise has always had them. The difference between now and older Zelda's is that the "cute" stuff used to be used sparingly in a semi serious high fantasy medieval setting. It was almost tongue in cheek, giving a little wink to the player, breaking the forth wall kind of thing. Now entire games are based around these "cute" characters and the semi serious high fantasy stuff is used sparingly or not at all.
The older stuff was still colourful and cartoony yet still respected the fact that Hyrule is a high fantasy world compared to the newer stuff where anything goes.
Here is an example of bad "cute" that clashes with the Hyrule.
VS
Here is an example of good "cute" that works and doesn't feel like it breaks the rules of the world it's set in.
The older stuff was still colourful and cartoony yet still respected the fact that Hyrule is a high fantasy world compared to the newer stuff where anything goes.
Here is an example of bad "cute" that clashes with the Hyrule.
VS
Here is an example of good "cute" that works and doesn't feel like it breaks the rules of the world it's set in.
WonkyPanda
Member
Pikmin 3 is proof alone that Miyamoto has far from lost his touch. Anybody who says otherwise is lost.
As to Zelda itself, there is plenty of talent at nintendo to handle Zelda. Anouma, i think, is a great director for the series.
As to Zelda itself, there is plenty of talent at nintendo to handle Zelda. Anouma, i think, is a great director for the series.
Yeah, but "safe" under completely different circumstances from the ones released from 2000 on.. This type of retroactive criticism is moot and worthless, especially since what followed directly after was Majora, the opposite of "safe"
I've been out of the loop on Pikmin 3 and WiiU in general, could you explain what exactly went sour with it?
What's weird about Skyward Sword is that it holds your hand with stuff like what items are what, where to go next, etc. but then throws some genuinely ingenious and difficult puzzles and enemies at you. It's probably the hardest Zelda since Majora's Mask, when it comes down to it. And the core gameplay and art direction are phenomenal.
They were so close to creating something that's pretty much perfect. It's a fantastic game, but it's flaws are all the more apparent in contrast to the things it executes brilliantly.
I feel like a lot of people that shit on the game couldn't look past the flaws and didn't get very far in it. That boss with the arms and the giant swords is one of the best bosses in any Zelda, and all the dungeons are very memorable and inventive.
They were so close to creating something that's pretty much perfect. It's a fantastic game, but it's flaws are all the more apparent in contrast to the things it executes brilliantly.
I feel like a lot of people that shit on the game couldn't look past the flaws and didn't get very far in it. That boss with the arms and the giant swords is one of the best bosses in any Zelda, and all the dungeons are very memorable and inventive.
Spieler Eins
Member
It's funny that half of your examples for the older ones are unofficial artworks from the NES game. Those were not used during development.
And there's a reason why the Tingle game is a spinoff.
Pretty much just a random collection of pics that don't mean anything.
H_Prestige
Banned
There is nothing wrong with whimsical, odd or cartoonish characters. As fans of "cute" have pointed out the the Zelda franchise has always had them. The difference between now and older Zelda's is that the "cute" stuff used to be used sparingly in a semi serious high fantasy medieval setting. It was almost tongue in cheek, giving a little wink to the player, breaking the forth wall kind of thing. Now entire games are based around these "cute" characters and the semi serious high fantasy stuff is used sparingly or not at all.
The older stuff was still colourful and cartoony yet still respected the fact that Hyrule is a high fantasy world compared to the newer stuff where anything goes.
Here is an example of bad "cute" that clashes with the Hyrule.
VS
Here is an example of good "cute" that works and doesn't feel like it breaks the rules of the world it's set in.
Thank you. This is what I was trying to get at.
Zoramon089
Banned
The "rules" are defined by the game's creators not you
Lightning Lord
Banned
Yeah and it was one of the best selling Zelda games. However we can go much bigger if you want to emulate the feel of real world mountain ranges and valleys. You can also populate the world with a lot more characters.
They are developing a thematic presentation for others, not themselves. If it clashes for the audience, their license isn't an excuse.
There is nothing wrong with whimsical, odd or cartoonish characters. As fans of "cute" have pointed out the the Zelda franchise has always had them. The difference between now and older Zelda's is that the "cute" stuff used to be used sparingly in a semi serious high fantasy medieval setting. It was almost tongue in cheek, giving a little wink to the player, breaking the forth wall kind of thing. Now entire games are based around these "cute" characters and the semi serious high fantasy stuff is used sparingly or not at all.
The older stuff was still colourful and cartoony yet still respected the fact that Hyrule is a high fantasy world compared to the newer stuff where anything goes.
Here is an example of bad "cute" that clashes with the Hyrule.
VS
Here is an example of good "cute" that works and doesn't feel like it breaks the rules of the world it's set in.
Thsi is all a bunch of nonsense. Random hand picked screenshots and artwork to suit a flimsy argument
Sylverstone14
Member
Man, is everyone still hung up on that?
I preferred her cuteness in Skyward Sword D: