Support NeoGAF

[MetroidPrimeRib]

does otaku have different connotations when being used to describe western "otakus" versus japanese otakus? when i hear otaku i think of the guy dating his 3ds virtual girlfriend and was under the assumption that otaku didn't simply mean one who watches anime.

I suppose so. You have Otacon from MGS saying "I'm an Otaku too" because he goes to conventions and likes nerdy shit like Policenauts (I don't know if this was changed in localization or whatever but its a good example.) I feel like a lot of self proclaimed Otaku in the West are just people that like anime, manga, cosplay, conventions etc.

Otaku in Japan is more closely associated with NEET/hikkikimoris I suppose, that is people who aren't actively seeking out jobs or schooling and the like.

 

[tirkaroKujo]

Really? I'd think it was the 90s with Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon.

Stuff like DBZ and Sailor Moon didn't really become a thing in the USA until Toonami started airing them circa 1998. (Mexico/South America though, yeah they probably beat us to the punch there way earlier.)
Which yeah I guess is technically the 90s, but saying it's that far removed from the timeframe I gave is just splitting hairs.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

don't even quote my posts, animeavatar!!! how dare you!!!

Unless this was sarcasm, you fell for it. Unless Disney cartoons are anime now.

If it was sarcasm, nicely done.

 

[Stumpokapow]

To me at least it is a simple proposition. Americans sees themselves as the center of the cultural universe. Anything outside of that needs to be amazing and also lucky to break into it even momentarily and than will soon be forgotten by the mainstream. It doesn't matter that manga may actually be more popular than Marvel in America currently, to the mainstream press it is at best a novelty and will be covered as such. Or to sum it up in one word, parochialism.

This kinda seems too rich to me because what I far more often hear is fans of anime rejecting efforts to build a bridge to western audiences because it is "censorship" or "kiddifying" or a betrayal of the ethos of the work or whatever. To me the objection of parochialism seems more obviously targeted towards the producers/current consumers of anime. Even in this thread you see people who are arguing that "it's not the content" use anime in-group jargon that's impenetrable ("otome", "ecchi", "fanservice", "moe", whatever any of the words in "Araragi's obsession with Hachikuji in Monogatari" mean--and yes, the desire to leave character and show/book names untranslated is part of what's alienating to people). I don't mean that to shit on people, whatever you enjoy is whatever you enjoy, and don't let me be the one to tell people to change what they like. But the article asserts this status quo as a problem, so it strikes me that problems invite solutions. If the rest of the world looks parochial through the lens of someone immersed in anime content, then that in of itself suggests that content is the problem. The solution is bridging the gap. If that's not an acceptable solution, then *shrugs*

I'm just saying the article asks the question incredulously as if there's no explanation, there's an obvious one to me, and the pushback in this thread seems to confirm rather than dispute the hypothesis.

Anime that strives to be a little more universal in its approach either from the start or during the process of localization--Sanrio stuff, Dragonball, Ghibli, Pokemon--seems to be breaking through no problem.

 

[PdotMichael]

I suppose so. You have Otacon from MGS saying "I'm an Otaku too" because he goes to conventions and likes nerdy shit like Policenauts (I don't know if this was changed in localization or whatever but its a good example.) I feel like a lot of self proclaimed Otaku in the West are just people that like anime, manga, cosplay, conventions etc.

Otaku in Japan is more closely associated with NEET/hikkikimoris I suppose, that is people who aren't actively seeking out jobs or schooling and the like.

It's wrong to believe that otaku are jobless freaks. Otaku isn't a synoynm for NEET or Hikikomori.

Most of the niche hobbies are so expensive that you can't do anything if you don't have a steady income.

 

[Regiruler]

Unless this was sarcasm, you fell for it. Unless Disney cartoons are anime now.

If it was sarcasm, nicely done.

I would hope that the triple exclamation marks would dispel confusion as well as the fact that he's named "Sai-kun".

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

It's wrong to believe that otaku are jobless freaks. Otaku isn't a synoynm for NEET or Hikikomori.

Most of the niche hobbies are so expensive that you can't do anything if you don't have a steady income.

I know, I just think thats how it is portrayed. Of course, that's just what I think.

This kinda seems too rich to me because what I far more often hear is fans of anime rejecting efforts to build a bridge to western audiences because it is "censorship" or "kiddifying" or a betrayal of the ethos of the work or whatever. To me the objection of parochialism seems more obviously targeted towards the producers/current consumers of anime. Even in this thread you see people who are arguing that "it's not the content" use anime in-group jargon that's impenetrable ("otome", "ecchi", "fanservice", "moe", whatever any of the words in "Araragi's obsession with Hachikuji in Monogatari" mean--and yes, the desire to leave character and show/book names untranslated is part of what's alienating to people). I don't mean that to shit on people, whatever you enjoy is whatever you enjoy, and don't let me be the one to tell people to change what they like. But the article asserts this status quo as a problem, so it strikes me that problems invite solutions. If the rest of the world looks parochial through the lens of someone immersed in anime content, then that in of itself suggests that content is the problem. The solution is bridging the gap. If that's not an acceptable solution, then *shrugs*

I'm just saying the article asks the question incredulously as if there's no explanation, there's an obvious one to me, and the pushback in this thread seems to confirm rather than dispute the hypothesis.

Anime that strives to be a little more universal in its approach either from the start or during the process of localization--Sanrio stuff, Dragonball, Ghibli, Pokemon--seems to be breaking through no problem.

Any jargon will look impenetrable to someone outside of the circle. Like if anyone who wasn't into gaming took a look into a Digital Foundry thread.

I think a big thing is a translation vs a localization. Like the huge threads that blow up on Gaming side about changes, its easier to tell these changes now when we wouldn't have known them before because people import these games months before they come out in the West and beat them so all that info is out there.

But I think most people already in that circle would prefer to have the content not attempting to breach out to grab new people but the people who will already buy that. It's already a small market.

 

[Mechazawa]

Mainstream nerd culture feels like it revolves exclusively around the coverage of popular film, television and games.

I don't really buy this idea that the "run-of-the-mill nerd" or whatever is actively following Marvel/DC print storylines. The progenitors of all this shit still feel fairly niche to me.

 

[-Horizon-]

As “GAF” Culture Assimilates, “Anime Avatars” Remain Outcasts

:'(

 

[Trojita]

Unless this was sarcasm, you fell for it. Unless Disney cartoons are anime now.

If it was sarcasm, nicely done.

Phineas and Ferb is now animu

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Mainstream nerd culture feels like it revolves exclusively around the coverage of popular film, television and games.

I don't really buy this idea that the "run-of-the-mill nerd" or whatever is actively following Marvel/DC print storylines. The progenitors of all this shit still feel fairly niche to me.

I totally agree. I doubt the massive success of superhero movies has had much of an effect on trades at all. In fact, I think I have read articles about how the sales of trades haven't increased in tandem with the movies.

Comics used to be huge in the 90s at least. As someone who picks up a trade or a graphic novel here and there, not much has really changed at all aside from reprinting stories that the movies are based on and tie-in comics.

 

[jerry1594]

Heres a article that might hit on some of the reasons Otaku culture is being shunned.

The great shift in japanes pop culture
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/

I haven't read most of it but part 5 "The Difficulty of Exporting Marginal Subcultures" might have some answers.
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/12/02/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-five/

"In most countries with growing economies, educated upper-middle class consumers still spearhead the consumer market. They have the most disposable income and the most interest in cultural exchange. And those consumers, whether it’s Taiwan or the U.K., are the ones most likely to be willing to follow and purchase foreign cultural items.

Currently, however, the most conspicuous Japanese culture of otaku and yankii represents value sets with little connection to affluent consumers elsewhere. Most men around the world are not wracked by such deep status insecurity that they want to live in a world where chesty two-dimensional 12 year-old girls grovel at their feet and call them big brother. The average university student in Paris is likely to read Murakami Haruki and may listen to a Japanese DJ but not wear silky long cocktail dresses or fake eyelashes from a brand created by a 23 year-old former divorcee hostess with two kids. Overseas consumers remain affluent, educated, and open to Japanese culture, but Japan’s pop culture complex — by increasingly catering to marginal groups (or ignoring global tastes, which is another problem altogether) — is less likely to create products relevant for them."

Interesting articles thanks for sharing.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Any jargon will look impenetrable to someone outside of the circle. Like if anyone who wasn't into gaming took a look into a Digital Foundry thread.

Sure. If gaming was having trouble breaking through into the mainstream and someone raised that as a problem, I wouldn't push back by saying that people are too closed-minded to understand the urgent importance of frame-pacing and FXAA, I'd concede that this kind of stuff is a barrier to the broader adoption of gaming. There was a great article a few years ago where a non-gamer tried some 3d action games and found basic movement difficult, aiming a gun impossible, and shocked by some of the tropes in terms of the level of violence, cutscenes, and other stuff that we take for granted. That's absolutely a barrier. I'm all about tearing down barriers and encouraging exchange.

Hence Wii. Hence mobile gaming. Mobile gaming is great, it's wonderful that I'm now discovering new games thanks to random people I know who are playing them who had never played games ten years ago. To the extent that there's a parallel to the anime case, that's the point.

I think a big thing is a translation vs a localization. Like the huge threads that blow up on Gaming side about changes, its easier to tell these changes now when we wouldn't have known them before because people import these games months before they come out in the West and beat them so all that info is out there.

This seems to be a similar thing with anime. No one complaining about changes or dubbing or whatever is looking at the product as is, they're comparing the product to something they idealize (in some cases to the point of pathology) and then finding it lacking. That's a barrier that the community puts up that prevents the mainstream audience getting into it.

 

[Fox318]

I'd disagree.

Crunchyroll just announced that they have 700,000 paid subs.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'd disagree.

Crunchyroll just announced that they have 700,000 paid subs.

(yes this is the article's entire point)

 

[sandy1297]

Five girls who are aiming to become idols, lead the viewer through practicing various types of training, such as push-up, sit-up, back extension, dance, yoga, stretch, trunk training, and Tai Chi, while talking to viewers.

i realize this isn't all encompassing, but it seems pretty worthless

anime version of YouTube/twitch then

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I'd disagree.

Crunchyroll just announced that they have 700,000 paid subs.

I don't know how much of that is leaking into the studios themselves and increasing the view in the mass public eye but yes, CR is having great success.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I would hope that the triple exclamation marks would dispel confusion as well as the fact that he's named "Sai-kun".

I've seen worse on these forums...never assume anything!

...

lol

 

[Cyan]

If I wanted to know something about what content to expect from anime, probably the community thread here would be a good place to look, right?

Ok, right off the bat we've got a cutesy little girl "gaf-chan" banner and references to being "lewd." Probably community in-jokes, but emblematic of the kind of content people talk about when they talk about anime being unappealing to outsiders. Right? Pandering fanservice ("lewd") and moe little girls, and especially the combination thereof, are a big chunk of what people dislike and complain about with anime. Through that lens we're not off to a great start.

We've got a list of recommended animes to check out (I'm going to be reacting primarily based on the pictures here, since that's the primary presentation):

1. Fushigi na Somera-chan - some kind of moe little girl, with a robot in the background?
2. Hackadoll the Animation - pandering fanservice
3. Haikyuu!! 2 - looks like a sports team story. volleyball?
4. Hidan no Aria AA - more fanservice
(not great so far, three of the four are the kind of unappealing content we've been talking about)
5. Lovely Muuuuuuuco! - doggie!
6. Kagewani - looks like a serious drama thing
7. Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - giant robots, ok
8. Noragami Aragoto - a bunch of people standing around in a hall. maybe another drama?
(progress! zero fanservice in the second group of recommendations!)
9. One-Punch Man - oh hey, this one I've actually heard of. a subversive superhero thing.
10. Osomatsu-san - odd style, not the standard anime look. not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't look fanservicey
11. Owarimonogatari - no boobs hanging out, but a girl whose obviously in high school makes me suspicious
12. Shomin Sample - fanservice
(only one definite one here, not too bad)
13. Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - maybe a fighting tournament or something?
14. Valkyrie Drive - Mermaid - fanservice
15. Young Black Jack - some kind of action or war thing I guess
16. Yuru Yuri San☆Hai! - hoo boy, little girls in short skirts. not a good look

And then more cutesy little girl banners promising me there's so much more!

Ok, so just based on the presentation here, I would expect 2, 4, 12, 14, and especially 16 to be unappealing fanservice stuff. 1 is moe, and 11 I am (perhaps unfairly) leery of. That's almost half of the top (!) recommendations right off the bat. I'm not trying to be unfair here. Maybe these shows are actually totally fine in terms of content and are just presented in a way that makes them look like something they're not. But even if that's the case, what does it say about anime that this is expected to be appealing? And how would we expect people who are repulsed by fanservice to react, if this is the best that current anime has to offer?

 

[MogCakes]

Stump is largely on point. There's a huge cultural and moral clash going on and it isn't just in the 'West'. Japan itself seems to be largely the same way with how the medium is regarded post-high school and the industry is propped up by whales willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money. Hell, look at the comments in this thread for an idea of the general take on the medium and its community. It will likely stay this way for a long while yet, so long as the anime industry is supported by whales and caters to them. The large fandom in the rest of the world is stuck between a rock and a hard place; they count for little of the blu-ray sales and IIRC are almost non-existant on viewership counts by JP companies, though I think Crunchyroll is changing that.

If there were more shows that were more in line with safer tastes and morals and ideals then the medium would start to get more coverage. Which IMO, isn't necessarily a good thing.

 

[muteki]

It can't be considered mainstream geek unless it gets an anecdote on The Big Bang Theory at a minimum, which I don't believe has happened with the exception of maybe Pokemon, which doesn't count.

 

[hamchan]

I think the most popular geeky things that have broken into the mainstream owe their movie and TV adaptations for it. The huge juggernauts that are Marvel, Game of Thrones and the Walking Dead only became so after they were made live-action. Live-action anime adaptations do exist but I think they remain distinctly very Japanese, which could make it hard for a Western audience to cross the cultural barrier.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I'd disagree.

Crunchyroll just announced that they have 700,000 paid subs.

The point of the article is that even though anime are popular, mainstream US media aren't relaying it as much as other "geek" entertainment.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

If I wanted to know something about what content to expect from anime, probably the community thread here would be a good place to look, right?

Ok, right off the bat we've got a cutesy little girl "gaf-chan" banner and references to being "lewd." Probably community in-jokes, but emblematic of the kind of content people talk about when they talk about anime being unappealing to outsiders. Right? Pandering fanservice ("lewd") and moe little girls, and especially the combination thereof, are a big chunk of what people dislike and complain about with anime. Through that lens we're not off to a great start.

We've got a list of recommended animes to check out (I'm going to be reacting primarily based on the pictures here, since that's the primary presentation):

1. Fushigi na Somera-chan - some kind of moe little girl, with a robot in the background?
2. Hackadoll the Animation - pandering fanservice
3. Haikyuu!! 2 - looks like a sports team story. volleyball?
4. Hidan no Aria AA - more fanservice
(not great so far, three of the four are the kind of unappealing content we've been talking about)
5. Lovely Muuuuuuuco! - doggie!
6. Kagewani - looks like a serious drama thing
7. Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - giant robots, ok
8. Noragami Aragoto - a bunch of people standing around in a hall. maybe another drama?
(progress! zero fanservice in the second group of recommendations!)
9. One-Punch Man - oh hey, this one I've actually heard of. a subversive superhero thing.
10. Osomatsu-san - odd style, not the standard anime look. not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't look fanservicey
11. Owarimonogatari - no boobs hanging out, but a girl whose obviously in high school makes me suspicious
12. Shomin Sample - fanservice
(only one definite one here, not too bad)
13. Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - maybe a fighting tournament or something?
14. Valkyrie Drive - Mermaid - fanservice
15. Young Black Jack - some kind of action or war thing I guess
16. Yuru Yuri San☆Hai! - hoo boy, little girls in short skirts. not a good look

And then more cutesy little girl banners promising me there's so much more!

Ok, so just based on the presentation here, I would expect 2, 4, 12, 14, and especially 16 to be unappealing fanservice stuff. 1 is moe, and 11 I am (perhaps unfairly) leery of. That's almost half of the top (!) recommendations right off the bat. I'm not trying to be unfair here. Maybe these shows are actually totally fine in terms of content and are just presented in a way that makes them look like something they're not. But even if that's the case, what does it say about anime that this is expected to be appealing? And how would we expect people who are repulsed by fanservice to react, if this is the best that current anime has to offer?

LOL alright this is actually pretty funny. BGBW made the thread highlights to be a bunch of things that people weren't actually excited for since the season had a lot of heavy hitters. He updated it with stuff like Gundam and One Punch Man but before it was all that stuff. There were multiple people posting in the thread going "Wow this season looks pretty bad"

 

[zeshakag]

I can't wait till Netflix makes anime. It's gonna be better than 99% of the fan service pervy trash out there. Once Netflix legitimizes anime in the US's eyes and actually makes good anime that you can leave your door open watching is when otaku culture can hitch a ride with geek culture on the climb to mainstream acceptance. Even then only the least creepy will be accepted, leaving behind the real otaku, such as mainstream game fandom has left behind "gamers".

 

[The Technomancer]

Is it though? (It's not)

Have you looked at any seasonal charts and seen just how many shows are ecchi? It's like, two a season most of the time.

Its not just about ecchi shows though, its about the ubiquity of major female characters having panty shots, or hotspring scenes, or beach episodes in which the bouncing of their breasts is given a shot of its own or any of the other pervasive fanservice that is honestly very offputting to most people who aren't desensitized to it because "that's just how anime is"

 

[RedSwirl]

Heres a article that might hit on some of the reasons Otaku culture is being shunned.

The great shift in japanes pop culture
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/

I haven't read most of it but part 5 "The Difficulty of Exporting Marginal Subcultures" might have some answers.
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/12/02/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-five/

"In most countries with growing economies, educated upper-middle class consumers still spearhead the consumer market. They have the most disposable income and the most interest in cultural exchange. And those consumers, whether it’s Taiwan or the U.K., are the ones most likely to be willing to follow and purchase foreign cultural items.

Currently, however, the most conspicuous Japanese culture of otaku and yankii represents value sets with little connection to affluent consumers elsewhere. Most men around the world are not wracked by such deep status insecurity that they want to live in a world where chesty two-dimensional 12 year-old girls grovel at their feet and call them big brother. The average university student in Paris is likely to read Murakami Haruki and may listen to a Japanese DJ but not wear silky long cocktail dresses or fake eyelashes from a brand created by a 23 year-old former divorcee hostess with two kids. Overseas consumers remain affluent, educated, and open to Japanese culture, but Japan’s pop culture complex — by increasingly catering to marginal groups (or ignoring global tastes, which is another problem altogether) — is less likely to create products relevant for them."

I was gonna get to this, and I think it's exacerbated the language and cultural barrier. Anime culture already has the disadvantage of not having a direct link to Hollywood money and originally being in a different language. But now outside issues with Japan's economy in general have forced anime and manga to become creatively more and more insular. You have more and more "fanservice" shows targeting Japanese otakus almost to the complete exclusion of everybody else. On the flipside, the biggest American comic books or fantasy literature have started to target broader and broader audiences. Crossover anime hits like Cowboy Bebop or DBZ have also become more and more rare these days. We probably haven't had one since Bebop.

Oftentimes I've wondered if anime fandom should really be compared to foreign film fandom, and if the localization industry has been reaching too far beyond what should be its natural state. You don't see American fans of French film or whatever trying to make it more mainstream.

That said, a few western producers here and there are starting to take notice of anime and other Japanese properties. I don't have high hopes for Hollywood's shot at Ghost in the Shell, but another interesting project is Del Toro's attempt to get Monster adapted into an HBO series. There are a lot of anime and manga that could probably make for good western movies or TV shows if the right person took interest in adapting them. Even those however would likely be properties from 10 or more years ago.

 

[flatearthpandas]

This kinda seems too rich to me because what I far more often hear is fans of anime rejecting efforts to build a bridge to western audiences because it is "censorship" or "kiddifying" or a betrayal of the ethos of the work or whatever. To me the objection of parochialism seems more obviously targeted towards the producers/current consumers of anime. Even in this thread you see people who are arguing that "it's not the content" use anime in-group jargon that's impenetrable ("otome", "ecchi", "fanservice", "moe", whatever any of the words in "Araragi's obsession with Hachikuji in Monogatari" mean--and yes, the desire to leave character and show/book names untranslated is part of what's alienating to people). I don't mean that to shit on people, whatever you enjoy is whatever you enjoy, and don't let me be the one to tell people to change what they like. But the article asserts this status quo as a problem, so it strikes me that problems invite solutions. If the rest of the world looks parochial through the lens of someone immersed in anime content, then that in of itself suggests that content is the problem. The solution is bridging the gap. If that's not an acceptable solution, then *shrugs*

I'm just saying the article asks the question incredulously as if there's no explanation, there's an obvious one to me, and the pushback in this thread seems to confirm rather than dispute the hypothesis.

Anime that strives to be a little more universal in its approach either from the start or during the process of localization--Sanrio stuff, Dragonball, Ghibli, Pokemon--seems to be breaking through no problem.

Wait. Is the problem really in finding Western audiences? If the shit is outselling Western equivalents in the market to the point it has to be reported separately to prevent people from realizing it and allow less popular western titles to gain exposure on the charts, wouldn't media bias and parochialism be aa better explanation than content and community?

 

[Trojita]

If I wanted to know something about what content to expect from anime, probably the community thread here would be a good place to look, right?

Ok, right off the bat we've got a cutesy little girl "gaf-chan" banner and references to being "lewd." Probably community in-jokes, but emblematic of the kind of content people talk about when they talk about anime being unappealing to outsiders. Right? Pandering fanservice ("lewd") and moe little girls, and especially the combination thereof, are a big chunk of what people dislike and complain about with anime. Through that lens we're not off to a great start.

We've got a list of recommended animes to check out (I'm going to be reacting primarily based on the pictures here, since that's the primary presentation):

1. Fushigi na Somera-chan - some kind of moe little girl, with a robot in the background?
2. Hackadoll the Animation - pandering fanservice
3. Haikyuu!! 2 - looks like a sports team story. volleyball?
4. Hidan no Aria AA - more fanservice
(not great so far, three of the four are the kind of unappealing content we've been talking about)
5. Lovely Muuuuuuuco! - doggie!
6. Kagewani - looks like a serious drama thing
7. Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - giant robots, ok
8. Noragami Aragoto - a bunch of people standing around in a hall. maybe another drama?
(progress! zero fanservice in the second group of recommendations!)
9. One-Punch Man - oh hey, this one I've actually heard of. a subversive superhero thing.
10. Osomatsu-san - odd style, not the standard anime look. not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't look fanservicey
11. Owarimonogatari - no boobs hanging out, but a girl whose obviously in high school makes me suspicious
12. Shomin Sample - fanservice
(only one definite one here, not too bad)
13. Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - maybe a fighting tournament or something?
14. Valkyrie Drive - Mermaid - fanservice
15. Young Black Jack - some kind of action or war thing I guess
16. Yuru Yuri San☆Hai! - hoo boy, little girls in short skirts. not a good look

And then more cutesy little girl banners promising me there's so much more!

Ok, so just based on the presentation here, I would expect 2, 4, 12, 14, and especially 16 to be unappealing fanservice stuff. 1 is moe, and 11 I am (perhaps unfairly) leery of. That's almost half of the top (!) recommendations right off the bat. I'm not trying to be unfair here. Maybe these shows are actually totally fine in terms of content and are just presented in a way that makes them look like something they're not. But even if that's the case, what does it say about anime that this is expected to be appealing? And how would we expect people who are repulsed by fanservice to react, if this is the best that current anime has to offer?

Oh god don't take that OT as being serious about anything.

 

[Fox318]

(yes this is the article's entire point)

I mean the language barrier issue will probably always be there for some people and right now there still isn't a great way to get manga in the states. Its tough to compete with fan subs.

I think the only way it will change is if we have anime on a major cable network or Netflix spends crazy money on a project.

When I think of recent movments of sci-fi, fantsy, and horror you can point to popular main stream tv (Star Trek, Game of Thrones, and The Walking Dead)

 

[sneakydomo]

This kinda seems too rich to me because what I far more often hear is fans of anime rejecting efforts to build a bridge to western audiences because it is "censorship" or "kiddifying" or a betrayal of the ethos of the work or whatever. To me the objection of parochialism seems more obviously targeted towards the producers/current consumers of anime. Even in this thread you see people who are arguing that "it's not the content" use anime in-group jargon that's impenetrable ("otome", "ecchi", "fanservice", "moe", whatever any of the words in "Araragi's obsession with Hachikuji in Monogatari" mean--and yes, the desire to leave character and show/book names untranslated is part of what's alienating to people). I don't mean that to shit on people, whatever you enjoy is whatever you enjoy, and don't let me be the one to tell people to change what they like. But the article asserts this status quo as a problem, so it strikes me that problems invite solutions. If the rest of the world looks parochial through the lens of someone immersed in anime content, then that in of itself suggests that content is the problem. The solution is bridging the gap. If that's not an acceptable solution, then *shrugs*

I'm just saying the article asks the question incredulously as if there's no explanation, there's an obvious one to me, and the pushback in this thread seems to confirm rather than dispute the hypothesis.

Anime that strives to be a little more universal in its approach either from the start or during the process of localization--Sanrio stuff, Dragonball, Ghibli, Pokemon--seems to be breaking through no problem.

I think I am looking at the issue from a different perspective than the author of the article and probably most anime defenders. I think the reasons why it is not covered as widely as its popularity would dictate, as measured by media sales and viewership, is because it is a Japanesse medium directed primarily at a Japanesse audience, this automatically circumscribes American coverage. I don't think that is a problem. As an anime viewer I have no problem watching content or discussing it with likeminded people if I choose to do so.

The author strikes me as someone who requires validation of his hobby from the mainstream. I don't share that feeling at all. I understand that for many anime viewers, who are much younger than I, that it becomes at least temporarily a large part of their identity. For me it's just another form of media I watch and enjoy. In summation, who wants to make something more mainstream that you enjoy in its current form?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

If I wanted to know something about what content to expect from anime, probably the community thread here would be a good place to look, right?

omfg, the whole post is a joke... it's amusing that you didn't get that but I don't blame you.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I can't wait till Netflix makes anime. It's gonna be better than 99% of the fan service pervy trash out there. Once Netflix legitimizes anime in the US's eyes and actually makes good anime that you can leave your door open watching is when otaku culture can hitch a ride with geek culture on the climb to mainstream acceptance. Even then only the least creepy will be accepted, leaving behind the real otaku, such as mainstream game fandom has left behind "gamers".

Considering the two shows Netflix are pushing are Knights of Sidonia (mechs in space that turns into a harem) and Seven Deadly Sins (Shonen series where the MC is a pervert and gropes everyone) probably not ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Its not just about ecchi shows though, its about the ubiquity of major female characters having panty shots, or hotspring scenes, or beach episodes in which the bouncing of their breasts is given a shot of its own or any of the other pervasive fanservice that is honestly very offputting to most people who aren't desensitized to it because "that's just how anime is"

Yeah I totally understand that. But then again, you have Space Dandy which was primarily made with a Western audience in mind and the first episode of that the main character talks for 10 minutes about how much he loves the ass and then goes to a restaurant called Boobies.

This is really no excuse but I think a lot of the series that people loved back in the 90s and wish there was more of like Ninja Scroll or Gunbuster had that stuff too.

 

[Nairume]

LOL alright this is actually pretty funny. BGBW made the thread highlights to be a bunch of things that people weren't actually excited for since the season had a lot of heavy hitters. He updated it with stuff like Gundam and One Punch Man but before it was all that stuff. There were multiple people posting in the thread going "Wow this season looks pretty bad"

omfg, the whole post is a joke... it's amusing that you didn't get that but I don't blame you.

Doesn't that just prove his point even further?

Instead of making it actually useful for people wanting to jump in, it sacrifices any usefulness to just have an injoke that is only funny to people in the know and otherwise repellent to people who aren't.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

If I wanted to know something about what content to expect from anime, probably the community thread here would be a good place to look, right?

Ok, right off the bat we've got a cutesy little girl "gaf-chan" banner and references to being "lewd." Probably community in-jokes, but emblematic of the kind of content people talk about when they talk about anime being unappealing to outsiders. Right? Pandering fanservice ("lewd") and moe little girls, and especially the combination thereof, are a big chunk of what people dislike and complain about with anime. Through that lens we're not off to a great start.

We've got a list of recommended animes to check out (I'm going to be reacting primarily based on the pictures here, since that's the primary presentation):

1. Fushigi na Somera-chan - some kind of moe little girl, with a robot in the background?
2. Hackadoll the Animation - pandering fanservice
3. Haikyuu!! 2 - looks like a sports team story. volleyball?
4. Hidan no Aria AA - more fanservice
(not great so far, three of the four are the kind of unappealing content we've been talking about)
5. Lovely Muuuuuuuco! - doggie!
6. Kagewani - looks like a serious drama thing
7. Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - giant robots, ok
8. Noragami Aragoto - a bunch of people standing around in a hall. maybe another drama?
(progress! zero fanservice in the second group of recommendations!)
9. One-Punch Man - oh hey, this one I've actually heard of. a subversive superhero thing.
10. Osomatsu-san - odd style, not the standard anime look. not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't look fanservicey
11. Owarimonogatari - no boobs hanging out, but a girl whose obviously in high school makes me suspicious
12. Shomin Sample - fanservice
(only one definite one here, not too bad)
13. Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - maybe a fighting tournament or something?
14. Valkyrie Drive - Mermaid - fanservice
15. Young Black Jack - some kind of action or war thing I guess
16. Yuru Yuri San☆Hai! - hoo boy, little girls in short skirts. not a good look

And then more cutesy little girl banners promising me there's so much more!

Ok, so just based on the presentation here, I would expect 2, 4, 12, 14, and especially 16 to be unappealing fanservice stuff. 1 is moe, and 11 I am (perhaps unfairly) leery of. That's almost half of the top (!) recommendations right off the bat. I'm not trying to be unfair here. Maybe these shows are actually totally fine in terms of content and are just presented in a way that makes them look like something they're not. But even if that's the case, what does it say about anime that this is expected to be appealing? And how would we expect people who are repulsed by fanservice to react, if this is the best that current anime has to offer?

Anime-GAF getting called out.

lulz

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Doesn't that just prove his point even further?

Most people hardly read the first post of the OT anyway since the thread is mostly made up of regulars. Half the time the first post is a joke.

You'd have to talk to BGBW who would just tell you to watch Kill me Baby or an idol series.

If you want to jump in and ask for recs, I and many other people will give you some. It's not seen as a bad thing that people want recs like in a few other places. Of course I think most people just start a thread on OT anyway to ask for recs.

 

[Narag]

Anime-GAF getting called out.

lulz

I may have to take the OTs back and just make them about old shows again!

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Doesn't that just prove his point even further?

Instead of making it actually useful for people wanting to jump in, it sacrifices any usefulness to just have an injoke that is only funny to people in the know and otherwise repellent to people who aren't.

This season is kinda meh so it was worth making the joke.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I may have to take the OTs back and just make them about old shows again!

Just have duckroll do all of them.

 

[Cyan]

Anime-GAF getting called out.

lulz

Well I was trying pretty hard not to make it about calling out Anime-GAF, but apparently it was a fake recommendation list so the effort was wasted? ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Trojita]

Doesn't that just prove his point even further?

Instead of making it actually useful for people wanting to jump in, it sacrifices any usefulness to just have an injoke that is only funny to people in the know and otherwise repellent to people who aren't.

We in the community graveyard. No one visits there.

 

[Joyful]

little did BGBW know people would take that topic seriously

 

[Nairume]

This season is kinda meh so it was worth making the joke.

Sure, but that still doesn't go against the notion that the thread is making it harder for people to jump in.

 

[Alucrid]

from what i can tell after seeing the neogaf's anime OT brought up is that it's clearly the anime community's lack of self seriousness that's impeding any inroads to mainstream success in the western market

 

[Sou Da]

I'm telling ya. Cyberpunk setting in which Otakus are forced into ghettos.

Not only is it great wish fulfillment, you can probably merchandise the hell out of it.

 

[Trojita]

Akarin/GAF-chan doesn't exist.

 

[Narag]

Just have duckroll do all of them.

That'll only happen when we get another round of Marvel anime.

 

[MogCakes]

There's a moralistic and social debate at the heart of this. Only a matter of time before AnimeGate becomes a thing once more socially acceptable anime is created, rebranded, and marketed instead as the new Disney look heralding a return to 2D animation, at last coming full circle and completing the requirements for the zombie apocalypse.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Even beyond the first post, there was some comments such as "Those are the highlights you chose?" and "this won't be a very interesting season".

 

[The Technomancer]

A joke that OP might be but when I do pop my head in the thread discussion of various high school and/or idol skows and rankings of "besf girl" and joke about lewd content aren't uncommon. Less so than when Duckroll put a foot down a year or so ago admittedly