Haru is the girl I'm most curious to know more about in the game.
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Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
Haru is the girl I'm most curious to know more about in the game.
TurnipFritters
Member
Would you say you... Haru'dly know her?
I don't think that will be it. Like I say, the others focus on their inner strength.
Should we be posting these commercials to the Discussion board? I've noticed we really tend to hog news on here, it's probably not good.
Someone put up a thread on discussion with screenshots I felt like we had already seen ages ago, but, understandably, a lot of people hadn't seen them.
Someone put up a thread on discussion with screenshots I felt like we had already seen ages ago, but, understandably, a lot of people hadn't seen them.
TurnipFritters
Member
That article said:
That's actually really convenient.
CrimsonFist
Member
Problem with screenshots is a lot of them come from scans, so by the time they do get officially uploaded, they're old news to people who have been following the game.
The commercials are probably thread worthy though, I don't think any of them have been posted.
It could be a mistranslation! I want to say that if there's no gay option, then I'm going to play the MC as a confirmed bachelor who's more interested in bonds with guys that with girls, but I'm weak so I'll probably make him date as many women as possible.
kboyrulez12345
Neo Member
Was just about to point that out. Welp, if it's not a mis translation than that all but confirms there's no homosexual romances...
Atlus needs to get with it. Even Fire Emblem Fates had a same sex couple didn't it?
kboyrulez12345
Neo Member
Semi Ass backwards huh? Y'know, I know there are a lot of people that wish for a same sex couple (including myself) but that makes me think that Atlus are better off not including homo sexual couples if there not gonna execute them properly.
I know A LOT of people will disagree, saying that well at least they are there, but really, having them be offensive and stereotypical is worse than just not having it as an option, imo.
TurnipFritters
Member
Even Persona 2 had same sex couples.
Yeah, although the lesbian was kinda terrible even though I get what they were going for. But Nintendo is a more international company and I think they were trying to make up for all the backlash they got for not including a same-sex option in Tomodachi Life.
Atlus doesn't care that much for the west, and the Japanese probably aren't going to complaining about a lack of gay options.
But it was understandable why they went for those choices, and next time they can do better.
KoroEunectes
Member
I think so too.
I really hope that sometime in the future they talk about all the content that they changed with P5.
Would be pretty interesting to see what they changed between all the delays that we got.
Same here.
Really happy to see more of her even if it is only a few seconds .....
We've already been over this. The "maybe they should hold off on same sex relationships" argument is just a shitty, self serving prophecy made by people who didn't care about same sex relationships in the first place. Romance in Persona has generally been pretty dismal; should romance be axed altogether? Of course not, because they need to pander to people who want to romance virtual waifus.
So why not pander to people who want to romance virtual husbando's as well? This is a concept that even Fire Emblem has grasped.
TurnipFritters
Member
I agree they should hold off on a feature they already had in the series literally seventeen years ago.
kboyrulez12345
Neo Member
Well I see your point there, although I should point out that I didn't know this discussion had already happened.
There's always Persona 6 then? And who knows, perhaps by then when they implement them they'll at least implement them with respect.
Well to be fair on that point, the direction from the first two Persona games to the later ones changed considerably from what I understand. It's possible(or hell, more likely) that Katsuro Hashino just doesn't know and/or want to include homo sexual options in future Persona games, which is a shame.
TurnipFritters
Member
"We shouldn't have ______ characters because they might be stereotypical and poorly written and that would be worse than not having them at all" isn't a great argument, IMO, because it can be extended to any sort of character. I do sort of agree that Persona Team has had some.... not great character writing in the past (A girl... who can't cook?!!; basically everything involving Kanji and Naoto identity issues), and I've already seen some folks who are not thrilled that Persona 5 appears to have
(not that I'm here to open that particular can of worms, but I can understand why they have issues with
), but at the end of the day we won't know unless they try and even if they suck, what most people are gonna walk away with is "Wow that sucked y'all need to get your act together and write these characters better!" and not "Wow that really changed my perception of LGBT people, who I previously considered people but now I just think they're stereotypical caricatures!"
a drag queen bar
drag
kboyrulez12345
Neo Member
Huh, you know, I think you've convinced me. A badly written homosexual character with stereotypes is not different from a badly written heterosexual African with stereotypes after all.
But from the looks of things, it looks like Hashino just doesn't want to try(or just doesn't know how to).
I'm not sure going 'Even Fire Emblem had it!' is the best counterpoint. If anything, it just shows that Japanese devs generally aren't going to include it unless they feel they have to. Fire Emblem had it included in the most minimal way possible that it was obvious that they got orders from up above about how they need to include at least one gay romance for each gender to the point due to recent backlashes that you'd have to make sure to buy the right version if you wanted to experience the romance.
It really just shows the only way it's included at this point is if they feel pressured to which is impossible for Atlus at this point since they don't care about international reaction like Nintendo do. MAYBE they would depending on how much P5 sells and the reaction.
It really just shows the only way it's included at this point is if they feel pressured to which is impossible for Atlus at this point since they don't care about international reaction like Nintendo do. MAYBE they would depending on how much P5 sells and the reaction.
That said, could still be a mistranslation, but 'opposite sex' seems specific. Also maybe possible they may not want to spoil a gay romance if it's not something the character talks about and is actually the major point of the character's story. It also might just not be brought up because it could possibly be one gay romance vs at least several straight romances.
kboyrulez12345
Neo Member
I would be very pleased if it was a surprise in the game and they aren't saying anything. I won't be expecting it, but I'll be pleasantly surprised.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I think it doesn't help that persona main characters sit squarely in the weird realm where they arent really avatars, even if they kindve push em off that way. They are more like preset characters that you guide some decisions of, more like geralt of rivia than commander shephard.
And really this is a problem I have with persona, not a huge gripe but Id rather them go fully one way or the other. Add a character creator, gender selection, more roleplaying options, or cement their personality in game and make the fact that we're guiding their actions rather than creating an avatar more apparent.
KoroEunectes
Member
Maybe it is a good idea to make a thread that includes all the CM's till now and update it when another one comes out.
That would indeed be the best way with maybe including a list for original videos and the subbed ones by Domi.
On a personal level, I think it would be fine if they included gay characters and relationships, but at the same time, I don't think it's an obligation. If they want to put them in, cool. If not, also cool.
There's never anything wrong with asking for it, but I think for some reason this time people were expecting it.
I am glad Yusuke isn't gay though. That would have been bad.
There's never anything wrong with asking for it, but I think for some reason this time people were expecting it.
I am glad Yusuke isn't gay though. That would have been bad.
A Dead Diehard
Member
To be fair, if P3 had done it,
we'd have to spend over a month with everyone having amnesia.
edit: rip in rest, PK
Ehhh still waiting on the game coming out for 100% confirmation. I don't think the PS Blog was supposed to have new info. Though I don't know how those are written so idk.
As said before, super disappointing if true.
KoroEunectes
Member
Sounds great.
It would let more people know that the game is coming out in Japan and give them a first look at the personalities of the main cast.
You could still hang out with the other SL characters that are not in your party though 
Going for max social links in that game was abysmal.
I hope that in P5 you get plenty of time to know all of the characters and still have time left to do extra events like going to the movies with certain characters.
It kind of is, though. At the bare minimum, it's a step forward. A clumsy, myopic and naive step forward, but a step forward nonetheless. You can bag on it for being a cynical inclusion all you want, but at the end of the day it's a level of inclusivity that the majority JRPGs haven't even bothered to approach. There's plenty to complain about, but plenty to appreciate as how well (like how the male protagonist's gay love interest is actually an amazing character).
Like, are you really going to try and downplay the innumerable amount of happy tweets and fanart that spawned from being able to engage in these same sex relationship? The obvious potential for more in subsequent games? No way. It won't wash, sorry. This was a big a deal. And Persona 5 not having it is a big bummer.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I would agree that they shouldn't feel obligated to do so, but its also fine for people wishing for it to be disappointed.
I still definitely feel that it makes sense for persona not to have it since the character your playing isnt much of an avatar
I'd much rather they add selectable gender for MC than same sex relationships, but at that point the character definitely fits more into the avatar mold and it makes even more sense to have same sex relationships
Mostly just saying it was done out of a pressure that applies to Nintendo due to being more international, but doesn't apply for Atlus at least at the moment. I also admit I feel that since there wasn't too much attention about the limitedness in Fates that the sequel will just have the same poor amount of effort since they feel they won't have to worry about more backlash as long as they put in that token amount of effort.
And yeah. I know some people bagged on the lesbian option as well, but I know at least a couple of women who wanted to romance her back in Awakening.
Also went ahead and made the character trailers thread.
As a thought here was a interview with Hashino/Soejima about P3
https://megatengaku.wordpress.com/readings/interviews/persona-3-official-design-works-interview/
Besides this being 10 years ago and one of the most absolute funniest things any developer has said, it is kind of startling even though they fixed that portion in P4. Something tells me they might not even realize that dating the same sex could be a thing in the game. Or maybe they wouldn't want to add it because they don't know about it. It's not a great excuse, but because of that I can see why it might not happen.
Of course I could be wrong and they do add it now but that quote made me think a bit about who is making this.
https://megatengaku.wordpress.com/readings/interviews/persona-3-official-design-works-interview/
Besides this being 10 years ago and one of the most absolute funniest things any developer has said, it is kind of startling even though they fixed that portion in P4. Something tells me they might not even realize that dating the same sex could be a thing in the game. Or maybe they wouldn't want to add it because they don't know about it. It's not a great excuse, but because of that I can see why it might not happen.
Of course I could be wrong and they do add it now but that quote made me think a bit about who is making this.
kboyrulez12345
Neo Member
@PK Gaming, @TurnipFritters, Just want to say thanks for opening my eyes on why the Persona team should include same sex couples, even if there badly written. I now understand completely where your coming from, and again, it is a shame that they haven't(or won't, depending on whether it'll be a surprise) implemented them.
On the subject of the multiple endings in Persona 5. I wonder if it's gonna be a Shin Megami Tensei type thing where any of the endings are canon or how it was in P3 and P4, where there was more than one ending, but there's a canon one anyway.
And if it's the former, I'm very curious as to what choices influence the ending.
On the subject of the multiple endings in Persona 5. I wonder if it's gonna be a Shin Megami Tensei type thing where any of the endings are canon or how it was in P3 and P4, where there was more than one ending, but there's a canon one anyway.
And if it's the former, I'm very curious as to what choices influence the ending.
I seem to be in the minority because resources something something low effort, but I would love it if they did something like P3P for a P5 rerelease. Or better yet, if they did something like P2 with P6 without butchering an existing character.
If they're doing spinoffs then I could see having a canon ending be for the best, but it would be interesting if they did spinoffs based on different endings.
The canon ending is going to be an ending you can't reach and we will know more about it in the next Persona.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Agreed. If you want multiple endings, go with mainline megaten.
Then again, I also said this about demon negotiation, so what do I know?
Speaking of megaten
Anybody else picking up SMT4A when it comes out to fill an Atlus sized hole in your heart? I mean I'm doing that currently with TMS:#FE(which is super good) but I want more.
KoroEunectes
Member
Disagreed.
Love that there are multiple endings in P4 and P1.
Even if they were cryptic I liked how the input of the player actually mattered
rather then P3's half assed attempt were it let's you choose between the normal ending and THE MOST OBVIOUS BAD ENDING IN VIDEOGAME HISTORY.
The fact that the game has the guts to actually ask you it twice is insulting.
People talked about how the hospital scene pissed them off but I was way more pissed at P3.
The fact that the game has the guts to actually ask you it twice is insulting.
People talked about how the hospital scene pissed them off but I was way more pissed at P3.
I think they will play it safe though since they have to keep the spin-offs in mind.
It will be probably be just one good ending and one bad one.
A Dead Diehard
Member
This guy!
I dunno...
It's still technically in keeping with 'teh themes' that everyone inevitably dies.
I'm such a deliberate ass with this.
In the end I don't really care one way or another, but it's not like the different endings are as involved as SMT.
I will. A bit disappointed that we have to wait for the difficulty dlc though.
Regarding the P3 scene (includes spoilers for - obviously - Persona 3 and Neon Genesis Evangelion):
When I watched Winter of Rebirth a couple of weeks ago, I remembered that Ryoji was voiced by Akira Ishida who also voiced Kaworu Nagisa in Evangelion. While I realized this before, I recently came to there might actually be a meta reason for this. Ryoji's and Kaworu's roles in their respective stories are incredible similiar: Both are supposed to be humanity's enemies in human disguise and offer the protagonist a choice. Ryoji wants to be killed by the protagonist so that he and the rest of SEES can die in bliss while Kaworu wants Shinji to kill him as he is a potential trigger of the Third Impact. The difference here is the correct choice: Killing Kaworu gives humanity another chance to survive while killing Ryoji would mean humanity's certain end.
Kaworu was essentially Akira Ishida's breakthrough. Kaworu is one of the most popular characters in one of the most famous anime of all time despite appearing in only one episode of the show's original run. Kaworu's role and importance increased in subsequent adaptions of NGE and he pretty much was the deuteragonist of the third Rebuild movie. Akira Ishida and Kaworu are pretty much inseperable and I would assume that this is especially true for someone immersed in Japanese media.
The point I'm trying to make is that a Japanese player might go into the scene with different expectations. Maybe they were trying to make people believe that killing Ryoji is the right choice as killing Kaworu was the right choice in NGE. It's obvious for a number of reasons that letting Ryoji live is the thing to do in P3, but I wonder if they cast Akira Ishida specifically to let the player doubt his decisions.
Kaworu was essentially Akira Ishida's breakthrough. Kaworu is one of the most popular characters in one of the most famous anime of all time despite appearing in only one episode of the show's original run. Kaworu's role and importance increased in subsequent adaptions of NGE and he pretty much was the deuteragonist of the third Rebuild movie. Akira Ishida and Kaworu are pretty much inseperable and I would assume that this is especially true for someone immersed in Japanese media.
The point I'm trying to make is that a Japanese player might go into the scene with different expectations. Maybe they were trying to make people believe that killing Ryoji is the right choice as killing Kaworu was the right choice in NGE. It's obvious for a number of reasons that letting Ryoji live is the thing to do in P3, but I wonder if they cast Akira Ishida specifically to let the player doubt his decisions.
Tl;dr:
Atlus may have tried to play with the expectations of the Japanese audience with the decision scene in Persona 3.
A Dead Diehard
Member
I can certainly see that happening.
Not to sell it short, but NGE's kind of a big deal.
I never realized that the very first commercial released actually gives us a pretty solid clue about what happens to the people after the Phantom Thieves steal their heart.
There's a line where someone says "The Phantom Thieves are responsible for the recent incidents of people becoming mentally handicapped or out of control" Now, this sounds like Sae, so I'm going to assume that it might be some rumor and bias on her part. That said, it's clear that the people they go after have some kind of bad reaction to whatever they do, so it doesn't necessarily sound like they become instantly nice. I guess it could be that they become so instantly nice that people assume they've gone insane, but who knows.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Why no? I mean I'll admit Strega kinda petered out but I personally really like the idea of an antagonistic group with similar abilities to your own. Beats the hell out of yet another God being a dick.
Maybe I haven't been following everything, but aren't the phantom thieves considered the terrorists?
Yeah. I may have thought that was some other organization from the trailer 4 subs when it was just the phantom thieves. That said, there was dialogue around the first day I think referencing the subway incident, so that's definitely some other person or group than the protagonists.
Well yes but that doesn't mean they are the only ones doing something. The scene with the train driver is the most suspect one cause we still have no idea what's happening there. It could also just be god being a dick again.