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Phil Harrison responds to eSRAM sze, "Clearly not the case, look at Forza 5"

Ishida

Banned
Jun 14, 2013
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That's not really fair. The crowd is the way it is because you drive by it so fast it doesn't need to be really detailed. It's not really because of the XBO's limitations. Overall F5 looks great. It's 60fps and 1080p... AND it is a launch title. The man has a point.
Then why did they show a fully rendered crowd in the reveal trailer? Are you serious?
 

mrg6290

Member
Oct 30, 2013
257
0
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Why bother responding? It's a lose/lose for them every time...
This.

I mean he is trying to point out that the statement that its too small to handle 1080p is patently false. But he should know that the argument is not that simple and that the discussion is really about how the size/architecture of the eSRAM is keeping XB1 from hitting 1080p w/ the same effects as other platforms.

This one should have gone without a response.

As much as I like the Xbox, I really wish they would just stop talking, well except Phil Spencer.

The box is weaker, and nothing is going to change that, just give me the games.
Exactly how I feel as well.
 

Nutter

Member
Jun 9, 2004
4,949
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lol at people saying "admit your flaws"

Yes, because that's what these companies do. Remember that time when Nintendo said...um...or when Sony came out and.....

Microsoft's problem isn't that they should admit to flaws, they don't seem to be any good at highlighting the strengths. I mean, how is it that we only JUSt found out the controller can have it's firmware updated?

Yeah it's nothing groundbreaking, but it's still pretty neat and opens up some interesting possibilities. They should be talking about that sort of stuff.
It has nothing to do with admitting flaws, its being oblivious to them and pretending they don't exist. They need to stop talking specs/power and bring content.

They need to stop responding to these things, theoretical or paper, the box is weak. Its time to move out of the 'but' stage and move onto selling your system based on content/games.
 

jayu26

Member
Feb 24, 2013
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400
Brampton, ON
That's not really fair. The crowd is the way it is because you drive by it so fast it doesn't need to be really detailed. It's not really because of the XBO's limitations. Overall F5 looks great. It's 60fps and 1080p... AND it is a launch title. The man has a point.
What? He makes a very good point. Fact is the Xbox had the better looking launch games.

Not that it should matter.
 

Zombie James

Banned
Dec 28, 2005
46,217
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Not a racing game player but I think high resolution 2D cutouts look better than... This.

Which is a fair thing to say, but you also have to take into consideration GT6 is a last-gen game. The Xbone should have significantly more resources to do a fully modelled crowd better than this, not revert back to 2D billboards.
 

OdysseusVA

Banned
Mar 3, 2011
18,983
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I'm not sure there will ever be a solution for this "problem" in racing games, and that resources will always be rightfully allocated elsewhere.

You can pick this sort of shit from any racing game. Most don't even bother.
Nope
Forza Horizon and I'm almost certain Forza 4 had actual models as well.
 

clem84

Member
Dec 11, 2011
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730
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Then why did they show a fully rendered crowd in the reveal trailer? Are you serious?
It was a work in progress. Maybe they decided having a fully modeled crowed was not a smart use of resources? I don't know.
 

Steffen

Banned
Jan 24, 2014
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California, USA
lol at people saying "admit your flaws"

Yes, because that's what these companies do. Remember that time when Nintendo said...um...or when Sony came out and.....

Microsoft's problem isn't that they should admit to flaws, they don't seem to be any good at highlighting the strengths. I mean, how is it that we only JUSt found out the controller can have it's firmware updated?

Yeah it's nothing groundbreaking, but it's still pretty neat and opens up some interesting possibilities. They should be talking about that sort of stuff.
As much as I am enjoying my Xbox One, I have to admit Microsoft's PR leaves a lot to be desired this time around.

I wonder if its the increase in social media and INSTANT information that's causing trouble for them.

With Twitter around to spread information (and misinformation) around faster than humankind has ever seen before, all companies have to be incredibly careful about what they say and how they say it, because it will be scrutinized seconds after posting.

Like others here have said, they should just stop posting tweets and blurbs to social media to try to justify everything and concentrate on the strengths of their console.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
Aug 15, 2007
31,370
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they should kind of stop taking the bait and responding to these type of tweets.

weird ass people who should be well versed in pr somehow keep saying the dumbest things
 

SEGAvangelist

Member
May 18, 2007
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1,340
This argument...

Guys, have you seen Powerstar golf? Totally running at 1080p.



I'm sure the xbone could output PacMan at 1080 native also...
This argument does not magically invalidate the complaints about the games that don't run at 1080.

Especially when the PS4 does.
Pretty sure Powerstar Golf runs at 720p for some reason.
 

No Love

Banned
Jun 7, 2013
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What? He makes a very good point. Fact is the Xbox had the better looking launch games.

Not that it should matter.
Hahahaha fact, huh? Dang dude, I thought I smoked good weed but you have some really bomb stuff, THAT is a fact. Can you share?
 

NoMoreTrolls

Member
Jul 25, 2013
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Texas, for now
Lol look at Forza 5 indeed. PS2 era crowds, prebaked lighting, and next to no post processing effects... might have wanted to pick a different game there, bucko.
 
Jul 2, 2011
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The sooner Microsoft concedes that their system is by the numbers weaker and stops letting their message get bogged down in tech pissing contests, the better off they will be.

There are a lot of cool things that you can do with an Xbox One that you can't do with any other gaming console out there. Tout those things, MS. Playing the numbers game with resolution or teraflops isn't the way to highlight your machine's strengths.
 

Steffen

Banned
Jan 24, 2014
232
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California, USA
The sooner Microsoft concedes that their system is by the numbers weaker and stops letting their message get bogged down in tech pissing contests, the better off they will be.

There are a lot of cool things that you can do with an Xbox One that you can't do with any other gaming console out there. Tout those things, MS. Playing the numbers game with resolution or teraflops isn't the way to highlight your machine's strengths.
 

Montresor

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Dec 31, 2008
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The sooner Microsoft concedes that their system is by the numbers weaker and stops letting their message get bogged down in tech pissing contests, the better off they will be.

There are a lot of cool things that you can do with an Xbox One that you can't do with any other gaming console out there. Tout those things, MS. Playing the numbers game with resolution or teraflops isn't the way to highlight your machine's strengths.
What in the fuck is Phil supposed to say?

Ignore the tweet?

Misdirection? "Forget the issue of 1080p... why don't you see these cool games we have instead?"

Self-deprecation? "You're right, any game running in 1080p does so by cutting corners. Most games on XB1 will be between 720p and 900p"
 

NoMoreTrolls

Member
Jul 25, 2013
4,626
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385
Texas, for now
The sooner Microsoft concedes that their system is by the numbers weaker and stops letting their message get bogged down in tech pissing contests, the better off they will be.

There are a lot of cool things that you can do with an Xbox One that you can't do with any other gaming console out there. Tout those things, MS. Playing the numbers game with resolution or teraflops isn't the way to highlight your machine's strengths.
Agreed. They should let their system sell by its strengths. If they don't feel that it can differentiate itself by those things alone, then why would they have made the power compromise to include them?

^ and yes, he should have ignored the Tweet. That's the great thing about Twitter... you don't have to reply to everyone.
 

Zombie James

Banned
Dec 28, 2005
46,217
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What in the fuck is Phil supposed to say?

Ignore the tweet?

Misdirection? "Forget the issue of 1080p... why don't you see these cool games we have instead?"

Self-deprecation? "You're right, any game running in 1080p does so by cutting corners. Most games on XB1 will be between 720p and 900p"
You got it.
 

Zeppeli

Banned
Feb 9, 2014
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Everything but the HUD looks really blurry in that 1080 image. I can't tell if its terrible graphics or bad upscaling.
The Xbox One, while upscaling the 3D graphics, can display a HUD at native 1080p at the same time. One of the nicer features if you have to settle for upscaling IMO - upscaled HUDs kill me.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
May 15, 2013
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Q: "Is a Volkswagen Beetle too slow to overtake a Formula One car?"
A: "Clearly not. A Beetle driving at 30mph can overtake a Formula One car driving at 20mph."
 

wiggleb0t

Banned
Mar 29, 2010
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Not a racing game player but I think high resolution 2D cutouts look better than... This.



Curious to see how Project Cars will handle crowds.
ProjectCars already looks better than Forza 5 bullshot crowds.

PR bullshit by Phil.. He is essentially Lionel Hutz
 

Mask

Member
Jun 1, 2013
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Yep. I took a look at Forza 5. Day and Night differences between the reveal trailers and the finished product, and not in
a good way. Downgrades ahoy!

A kinect game isn't really the best choice either. I doubt they'll be targeting Ryse-esque heights of graphical power.

It's pretty clear that the EsRAM is a limiting factor. When the wizards at Crytek can squeeze an impressive game like Ryse out of the Xbone, but only just
manage to get it running at 900p, and at a very shaky 30fps, that's a reason to be worried. Because, yes, it's a good achievement, but Crytek
are adept at making the most with what they're given, and until the SDK gets better, or devs are given longer development time, you won't be seeing too many
other games hit those same heights.

They need to stop trying to compete on the graphical field. Sure, the tools will get better, but so will the PS4's tools as well.
 

phosphor112

Banned
May 23, 2009
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Indiana
www.outofcontinues.com
Except that Forza 5 fails to implement any sort of AA nor is it a deferred rendered engine. And I swear to god, if someone tells me one more time that the lighting in that game isn't a static slapped on shadow from the top down, I will flip my shit. To many people said I used the old footage to prove my point, but after the game launch they all ran for the hills.
 

nib95

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Feb 26, 2007
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Obviously should have used Peggle 2 as a better example.

This appears to be a glitch specific to certain track(s)?. Tried it on a few others and was not able to replicate it.

Here's an example from Nurbergring.

 

Cragvis

Member
Sep 5, 2013
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He is right, you can fit a lot of p into the ESram cup, but it will only dribble out the end. Make sure to shake afterwards.
 

StoopKid

Member
Feb 28, 2013
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The sooner Microsoft concedes that their system is by the numbers weaker and stops letting their message get bogged down in tech pissing contests, the better off they will be.

There are a lot of cool things that you can do with an Xbox One that you can't do with any other gaming console out there. Tout those things, MS. Playing the numbers game with resolution or teraflops isn't the way to highlight your machine's strengths.
.

Just show games. There never gonna win the specs war.
 
Mar 20, 2012
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Just shut up and give the right software and benefits to your consumers, MS. You don't need to justify fucking resolution or framerate every time.

That's even worse than Forza's crowd.

Forza 5 is really not a very good looking game, so that's not a good example. Kinect Sports Rivals looks fantastic, but an exception is not a rule. It's a pain in the butt to do 1080p on XB1 according to the Rebellion dev, and Phil doesn't refute that. Having a couple of 1080p games is far worse proof of ease of 1080p than the MULTITUDE of sub-1080p games do of the exact opposite.
Remember when the Cell was a pain in the ass to program? Just give team some time and the right SDKs and everything's going to be alright. Xbox One users are getting games like Ryse on release. Time will only give better looking games, and Ryse looks freaking fantastic as a launch title.
 
Aug 29, 2013
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What? He makes a very good point. Fact is the Xbox had the better looking launch games.

Not that it should matter.
No way man, Killzone kills every game on Xbox One, only thing that's really close is Ryse and even that is below Killzone's level of graphical fidelity.