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[LittleJohnny]

By pointing out Forza 5 as an example of 1080p/60fps, are we going to see future X1 titles to make such a compromise just so they can wave their "We-can-do-it-too" flags?

Wasn't everyone going Goo Goo, Ga ga over NBA 2K14 screenshot comparisons from last gen to this gen?

I'm pretty sure there was even a MOTHER OF GOD gif in that thread

At the time I don't think anyone knew Xbone was going to be able to run the game at 1080p 60fps. If ESRAM were an issue for 1080p games, how do you explain this phenomenon? Remember, we're not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful, some people here need to get the PS4 out of the heads because all they can do is compare, we're simply talking about being able to achieve next gen visuals at 1080p and a few games have achieved that.

 

[benny_a]

The above posts act as if the Rebellion developer thread never existed.

"If ESRAM were an issue for 1080p games, how do you explain this phenomenon?"

yup yup

 

[TheD]

I'm speaking more about the old tired jokes. Still, what response are you expecting? Is ESRAM a problem for Xbox One being able to achieve 1080p with next gen visuals? Do you really believe that the answer is YES? Maybe he should've gone with a different game as an example, but last I checked NBA 2k14 looks visually amazing and it's 1080p 60fps, Need for Speed Rivals is also very much next gen and 1080p, and imo Tomb Raider is also next gen worthy. We're talking first gen games here too. If Forza Horizon and Halo 5 still look disappointing, then you can say that ESRAM is too small, but from what I've seen, the Xbone architecture as a whole is balanced, it just happens to be less powerful than the PS4, however DDR3 + ESRAM is adequate for a 12CU unit GPU with only 16 ROPs.

The ESRAM IS A PROBLEM!

It is too small too hold all the frame buffers (and the like) in a modern advanced rendering engine at 1080p, instead it has to split them across into the much slower main RAM, and that has a notable performance hit.

Claiming that it is not a problem due to games like Forza 5 (which uses a very, very basic lighting engine) is completely wrong.

 

[Unknown One]

Sport games doesn't have much processes going on compared to Shooters.

 

[Chobel]

Wasn't everyone going Goo Goo, Ga ga over NBA 2K14 screenshot comparisons from last gen to this gen?

I'm pretty sure there was even a MOTHER OF GOD gif in that thread

At the time I don't think anyone knew Xbone was going to be able to run the game at 1080p 60fps. If ESRAM were an issue for 1080p games, how do you explain this phenomenon? Remember, we're not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful, some people here need to get the PS4 out of the heads because all they can do is compare, we're simply talking about being able to achieve next gen visuals at 1080p and a few games have achieved that.

Using sport games to prove your point? lol

 

[Warablo]

Both trees and crowd are straight out of Links 2004 for the OG Xbox.

That game was the best golf game I have ever played... Never have liked a golf game since...

 

[TAJ]

I fundamentally disagree that Tomb Raider is a show case for next-gen visuals.

A game that was created with a baseline of 480MB of memory for systems that are 8 and 9 years old getting a facelift does not a next-gen game make.

But others are free to disagree, which is why we have so many people saying PC ports are next-gen which I don't agree with. But to be fair, the TR Definitive Edition is more than just a PC port. It has lots of improved stuff that you normally don't get in a PC port. It's still a based around a 360/PS3 game however.

It's a fresh coat of paint on a previous gen game, just like Kameo was on 360, or Soul Calibur was on Dreamcast, but all three games made people who saw them at my place go daaaaaaayum.

 

[SwiftDeath]

At the time I don't think anyone knew Xbone was going to be able to run the game at 1080p 60fps. If ESRAM were an issue for 1080p games, how do you explain this phenomenon? Remember, we're not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful, some people here need to get the PS4 out of the heads because all they can do is compare, we're simply talking about being able to achieve next gen visuals at 1080p and a few games have achieved that.

Are you joking? Several outlets have attested to the noticeable lack of AA on XB1's version of NBA 2K14

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/4

The ESram size directly limits what options developers can achieve on the XB1 for anti-aliasing solutions. That's why Forza has no reasonable AA and likely why Ryse is 900p. It's too small to fit the necessary framebuffer for 1080p30fps even in a lot of cases with AA solutions being used

Seriously read what Tim Lotts, the developer who made one of the most commonly used modern AA solutions said about it

A fast GDDR5 will be the desired option for developers. All the interesting cases for good anti-aliasing require a large amount of bandwidth and RAM. A tiny 32MB chunk of ESRAM will not fit that need even for forward rendering at 1080p. I think some developers could hit 1080p@60fps with the rumored Orbis specs even with good AA. My personal project is targeting 1080p@60fps with great AA on a 560ti which is a little slower than the rumored Orbis specs. There is no way my engine would hit that target on the rumored 720 specs. Ultimately on Orbis I guess devs target 1080p/30fps (with some motion blur) and leverage the lower latency OS stack and scan out at 60fps (double scan frames) to provide a really great lower-latency experience. Maybe the same title on 720 would render at 720p/30fps, and maybe Microsoft is dedicating a few CPU hardware threads to the GPU driver stack to remove the latency problem (assuming this is a "Windows" OS under the covers).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/4

 

[Metfanant]

Wasn't everyone going Goo Goo, Ga ga over NBA 2K14 screenshot comparisons from last gen to this gen?

I'm pretty sure there was even a MOTHER OF GOD gif in that thread

At the time I don't think anyone knew Xbone was going to be able to run the game at 1080p 60fps. If ESRAM were an issue for 1080p games, how do you explain this phenomenon? Remember, we're not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful, some people here need to get the PS4 out of the heads because all they can do is compare, we're simply talking about being able to achieve next gen visuals at 1080p and a few games have achieved that.

sports games tend to have a lot less going on, in much more confined spaces...sports games always SHOULD be visual showcases (like NBA 2k14...or MLB The Show was on the PS3)....unfortunately...EA makes most of our sports games...

 

[Corleth the Fey]

Thanks Phil. It's moments like this that make me regret my silly PSN ID a little less.

 

[Night Angel]

The ESRAM IS A PROBLEM!

It is too small too hold all the frame buffers (and the like) in a modern advanced rendering engine at 1080p, instead it has to split them across into the much slower main RAM, that has a notable performance hit!

Why do you think they even added it in the first place if it was not a performance benefit?!

The eSRAM is not the problem; I don't think anyone believes that the console would perform better without it. The eSRAM is, at best, an imperfect solution to the problem of using DDR3 in the console. One of the limitations of that solution appears to be difficulty reaching 1080p without major compromises.

Hopefully they figure it out in the future, but for now I wanna see the receipts before I'll believe that the eSRAM has no problems outputting effect-rich 1080p content.

Edit: Aaaand I totally missed your point. Sorry, bro.

 

[TheD]

The eSRAM is not the problem; I don't think anyone believes that the console would perform better without it. The eSRAM is, at best, an imperfect solution to the problem of using DDR3 in the console. One of the limitations of that solution appears to be difficulty reaching 1080p without major compromises.

Hopefully they figure it out in the future, but for now I wanna see the receipts before I'll believe that the eSRAM has no problems outputting effect-rich 1080p content.

The ESRAM is the problem due to it's small size (as I made clear in my post), I did not say it would be better without it and with nothing else changed in the system.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The small size of the eSRAM is a problem, but it's a problem that can obviously be worked around to great effect. There's nothing wrong with Harrison's statement, he's absolutely correct.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Using sport games to prove your point? lol

Need for Speed Rivals ... "Using a racing game to prove your point?
Tomb Raider DE... "Using an action/adventure game to prove your point?
NBA 2K14... "Using a sports game to prove your point?


Try to focus on the question at hand and get the PS4 out of your mind for one second. Does Tomb Raider Definitive Edition qualify as a next gen looking title? Is it 1080p? is it a closed environment title or sports title?

So yes, Xbone can achieve 1080p with next gen assets, maybe not as easy as the PS4 can, but it can achieve it nonetheless. I didn't see anywhere where the PS4 was being compared, except here of course. ESRAM is not the issue, all it does is provide extra bandwidth for the main ram (DDR3). If anything ESRAM is a boon, not a constraint. You could slap all the GDDR5 on the bone, but if it goes unused by the mere 12CU GPU with 16 ROPs, then it's just a huge highway with a few extra lanes but no extra vehicles.

 

[benny_a]

It's a fresh coat of paint on a previous gen game, just like Kameo was on 360, or Soul Calibur was on Dreamcast, but all three games made people who saw them at my place go daaaaaaayum.

I had people go daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayum at FIFA 14 on PS4. People have different expectations.

 

[Kogepan]

The small size of the eSRAM is a problem, but it's a problem that can obviously be worked around to great effect. There's nothing wrong with Harrison's statement, he's absolutely correct.

Its a constraint. Whatever the game looks like it would have been better with enough eSRAM. XBone users are always going to lose out.

 

[Metfanant]

The eSRAM is not the problem; I don't think anyone believes that the console would perform better without it. The eSRAM is, at best, an imperfect solution to the problem of using DDR3 in the console. One of the limitations of that solution appears to be difficulty reaching 1080p without major compromises.

Hopefully they figure it out in the future, but for now I wanna see the receipts before I'll believe that the eSRAM has no problems outputting effect-rich 1080p content.

yes, the console performs better with the ESRAM then it would have without it...but that doesnt mean that its size is not a problem for 1080p resolutions...

 

[JLeack]

Forza 5 was gorgeous and ran well. I'm not worried.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Need for Speed Rivals ... "Using a racing game to prove your point?
Tomb Raider DE... "Using an action/adventure game to prove your point?
NBA 2K14... "Using a sports game to prove your point?


Try to focus on the question at hand and get the PS4 out of your mind for one second. Does Tomb Raider Definitive Edition qualify as a next gen looking title? Is it 1080p? is it a closed environment title or sports title?

So yes, Xbone can achieve 1080p with next gen assets, maybe not as easy as the PS4 can, but it can achieve it nonetheless. I didn't see anywhere where the PS4 was being compared, except here of course. ESRAM is not the issue, all it does is provide extra bandwidth for the main ram (DDR3). If anything ESRAM is a boon, not a constraint. You could slap all the GDDR5 on the bone, but if it goes unused by the mere 12CU GPU with 16 ROPs, then it's just a huge highway with a few extra lanes but no extra vehicles.

ESram [of only 32mb] is a clear bottleneck for more complex AA solutions at higher resolutions like 1080p. We have been over this multiple times across multiple threads for the last year. The game output on the XB1 further reinforces the notion that ESram is indeed a serious bottleneck

 

[Night Angel]

yes, the console performs better with the ESRAM then it would have without it...but that doesnt mean that its size is not a problem for 1080p resolutions...

I know. I actually was agreeing with his post, I just misread it.

And now we're back to balance. (Referring to LittleJohnny's post here.) Do you have some kind of evidence to support the idea that the system's resources are all being tapped out before the RAM becomes a bottleneck, or is this Tales From My Ass: Penello Edition?

 

[Chobel]

Need for Speed Rivals ... "Using a racing game to prove your point?
Tomb Raider DE... "Using an action/adventure game to prove your point?
NBA 2K14... "Using a sports game to prove your point?


Try to focus on the question at hand and get the PS4 out of your mind for one second. Does Tomb Raider Definitive Edition qualify as a next gen looking title? Is it 1080p? is it a closed environment title or sports title?

So yes, Xbone can achieve 1080p with next gen assets, maybe not as easy as the PS4 can, but it can achieve it nonetheless. I didn't see anywhere where the PS4 was being compared, except here of course. ESRAM is not the issue, all it does is provide extra bandwidth for the main ram (DDR3). If anything ESRAM is a boon, not a constraint. You could slap all the GDDR5 on the bone, but if it goes unused by the mere 12CU GPU with 16 ROPs, then it's just a huge highway with a few extra lanes but no extra vehicles.

I'm not sure what are trying to argue here? No one is saying Xbone can't do 1080p. But you have to do some serious cutbacks to achieve 1080p/60fps.

And I'm not comparing to PS4. Not sure where did you get that.

 

[Piggus]

Wasn't everyone going Goo Goo, Ga ga over NBA 2K14 screenshot comparisons from last gen to this gen?

I'm pretty sure there was even a MOTHER OF GOD gif in that thread

At the time I don't think anyone knew Xbone was going to be able to run the game at 1080p 60fps. If ESRAM were an issue for 1080p games, how do you explain this phenomenon? Remember, we're not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful, some people here need to get the PS4 out of the heads because all they can do is compare, we're simply talking about being able to achieve next gen visuals at 1080p and a few games have achieved that.

Would you care to explain what happened to the anti-aliasing in the Bone version of 2K14? As with Forza 5, it has practically no AA at all. Perhaps you should read up on the architecture and you'll understand that achieving 1080p is not the issue. Achieving 1080p with good image quality and post processing IS an issue.

 

[LittleJohnny]

ESram [of only 32mb] is a clear bottleneck for more complex AA solutions at higher resolutions like 1080p. We have been over this multiple times across multiple threads for the last year. The game output on the XB1 further reinforces the notion that ESram is indeed a serious bottleneck

The question is about the size. What you mention could be related to other factors in the pipeline such as GPU compute units and especially ROPs and Fillrate/Texelrate which are closely tied to higher pixels.

Regarding the size of ESRAM, let's see what Anandtech has to say about it:

Sounds like it's more than enough for what it's being used for:

At 32MB the ESRAM is more than enough for frame buffer storage, indicating that Microsoft expects developers to use it to offload requests from the system memory bus. Game console makers (Microsoft included) have often used large high speed memories to get around memory bandwidth limitations, so this is no different. Although 32MB doesn’t sound like much, if it is indeed used as a cache (with the frame buffer kept in main memory) it’s actually enough to have a substantial hit rate in current workloads

If it’s used as a cache, the embedded SRAM should significantly cut down on GPU memory bandwidth requests which will give the GPU much more bandwidth than the 256-bit DDR3-2133 memory interface would otherwise imply. Depending on how the eSRAM is managed, it’s very possible that the Xbox One could have comparable effective memory bandwidth to the PlayStation 4.

 

[DBT85]

The question is about the size. What you mention could be related to other factors in the pipeline such as GPU compute units and especially ROPs and Fillrate/Texelrate which are closely tied to higher pixels.

Regarding the size of ESRAM, let's see what Anandtech has to say about it:

Sounds like it's more than enough for what it's being used for:

Someone whip out the frame buffer calcs.

 

[Chobel]

The question is about the size. What you mention could be related to other factors in the pipeline such as GPU compute units and especially ROPs and Fillrate/Texelrate which are closely tied to higher pixels.

Regarding the size of ESRAM, let's see what Anandtech has to say about it:

Sounds like it's more than enough for what it's being used for:

You missed the the most important part "if it is indeed used as a cache". eSRAM is not used as cache, so everything anandtech said may not necessarily apply.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Oh yeah, we're looking at it alright.

This is where all the people go who weren't fit to be characters in Mortal Kombat 1.

 

[LittleJohnny]

I'm not sure what are trying to argue here? No one is saying Xbone can't do 1080p. But you have to do some serious cutbacks to achieve 1080p/60fps.

And I'm not comparing to PS4. Not sure where did you get that.

Saying things like "Serious cut-backs" is comparable to something. Tomb Raider is a 1080p game. Looking at the game as a stand alone, it really looks great, has definitive edition assets and a solid framerate. What exactly has been seriously "Cut back"? when you look at the PS4 version and notice that it runs at a higher framerate? or when analyzing textures up close and the PS4 has a little sharper textures here and there when put side by side? Well there you have it, that's exactly what I'm talking about, stop comparing to the PS4 and ask yourself, can the Xbox One achieve next gen visuals at 1080p? Yes, does ESRAM prove to be a burden? Yes, can developers work around Esram and achieve desired results? Yes.

 

[Zaptruder]

I wonder if you can do billboards well.

Like - displacement and material maps so that the characters react to change in lighting accurately - even though they turn to face the camera constantly.

 

[Aaron]

That game was the best golf game I have ever played... Never have liked a golf game since...

So true and sad. If it was widescreen, I'd still be playing it. Tiger Woods games were shit in comparison.

 

[slapnuts]

Forza 5 on Xbone never really impressed me...It never really gave me that "next gen" feel ....not even close..it looks like a well polished, super optimized Xbox 360 game imho...or a visually decent cross-gen game at most, which is what it is in all honestly. Why people wave that Forza 5 flag for its visuals baffles me beyond belief and i am being as fair and unbiased as anyone can be while saying this.

 

[Chobel]

Saying things like "Serious cut-backs" is comparable to something. Tomb Raider is a 1080p game. Looking at the game as a stand alone, it really looks great, has definitive edition assets and a solid framerate. What exactly has been seriously "Cut back"? when you look at the PS4 version and notice that it runs at a higher framerate? or when analyzing textures up close and the PS4 has a little sharper textures here and there when put side by side? Well there you have it, that's exactly what I'm talking about, stop comparing to the PS4 and ask yourself, can the Xbox One achieve next gen visuals at 1080p? Yes, does ESRAM prove to be a burden? Yes, can developers work around Esram and achieve desired results? Yes.

Ummm, I said "But you have to do some serious cutbacks to achieve 1080p/60fps" and I'm pretty sure Tomb raider isn't 1080p/60fps in xbone. Heck in some scenes it's even 900p.

Again I'm not talking about PS4.

 

[SwiftDeath]

The question is about the size. What you mention could be related to other factors in the pipeline such as GPU compute units and especially ROPs and Fillrate/Texelrate which are closely tied to higher pixels.

Regarding the size of ESRAM, let's see what Anandtech has to say about it:

Sounds like it's more than enough for what it's being used for:

As Lottes already detailed the DDR3 is too slow to be used for handling most of the framebuffer. That task would be pushed through to the ESram and it simply is too little to handle full HD resolution at 60 fps with any reasonable sort of anti-aliasing solution.

I would trust a developer who created one of the standard anti-aliasing solutions used today about how big such a framebuffer can be and what amount of memory it needs over an editor at Anandtech. Wouldn't you?

 

[riskVSreward]

Saying things like "Serious cut-backs" is comparable to something. Tomb Raider is a 1080p game. Looking at the game as a stand alone, it really looks great, has definitive edition assets and a solid framerate. What exactly has been seriously "Cut back"? when you look at the PS4 version and notice that it runs at a higher framerate? or when analyzing textures up close and the PS4 has a little sharper textures here and there when put side by side? Well there you have it, that's exactly what I'm talking about, stop comparing to the PS4 and ask yourself, can the Xbox One achieve next gen visuals at 1080p? Yes, does ESRAM prove to be a burden? Yes, can developers work around Esram and achieve desired results? Yes.

My strawman detector is approaching 60fps.

 

[SwiftDeath]

My strawman detector is approaching 60fps.

Huh must not be the XB1 model then

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

This Forza 5?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-23-digital-foundry-vs-forza-motorsport-5

Or this Forza 5?

Nothing good can come of statements like this. They just need to shut the hell up about stuff like this and not even respond to these things. It only makes them look bad. Just ignore it, put out your games. If you have compelling games people might still buy your system, but don't get into a fight you can't win.

Whatever specs the pc that was running the reveal should have been the xb1 specs.

Agree with everybody saying they need stfu when it comes to spec comparisons or the 'but' game x runs at 1080p. That battle has been lost already. Mattrick and who ever else fucked that aspect of the console.

It's time to being new ips and revive old ones. Games are what will move xb1 off the shelves from this point forward(really since before launch).

 

[foxbeldin]

I'm surprised he didn't bring the power of the cloud in the mix.

 

[LittleJohnny]

I'll close out by saying that, I understand where everyone is getting at. When a multiplat game is pushing the PS4 to run 1080p 30fps, in order for the Xbone to achieve visual parity, its going to have to drop the resolution, naturally since the PS4 is more powerful. The thing is, I don't agree that Phil Harrison is lying by saying that the Xbone can achieve 1080p visuals, or that it can't do so without sacrificing visual fidelity to the point where it's not next gen anymore. It's as if anything less than what the PS4 can do is not considered next gen or something.

I bet Forza Horizon or Halo 5 will impress, can the PS4 do better under the same circumstances? of course, but that wasn't the question.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I'll close out by saying that, I understand where everyone is getting at. When a multiplat game is pushing the PS4 to run 1080p 30fps, in order for the Xbone to achieve visual parity, its going to have to drop the resolution, naturally since the PS4 is more powerful. The thing is, I don't agree that Phil Harrison is lying by saying that the Xbone can achieve 1080p visuals, or that it can't do so without sacrificing visual fidelity to the point where it's not next gen anymore. It's as if anything less than what the PS4 can do is not considered next gen or something.

I bet Forza Horizon or Halo 5 will impress, can the PS4 do better under the same circumstances? of course, but that wasn't the question.

Honestly I just wanted a Halo that was native res to my tv, 60 fps and had nice AA going on. Doubt that will happen though. Still should be a looker. 343i is good at what they do [technical-wise I mean]

 

[Metfanant]

I know. I actually was agreeing with his post, I just misread it.

And now we're back to balance. (Referring to LittleJohnny's post here.) Do you have some kind of evidence to support the idea that the system's resources are all being tapped out before the RAM becomes a bottleneck, or is this Tales From My Ass: Penello Edition?

well...when youre dealing with consistently scaled back effects and lower frame rates, in ADDITION to lower native resolutions like we have seen in just about every multiplatform game comparison to date. it certainly suggests that bottlenecks are being hit on the Xbone 's hardware before the PS4's

I'll close out by saying that, I understand where everyone is getting at. When a multiplat game is pushing the PS4 to run 1080p 30fps, in order for the Xbone to achieve visual parity, its going to have to drop the resolution, naturally since the PS4 is more powerful. The thing is, I don't agree that Phil Harrison is lying by saying that the Xbone can achieve 1080p visuals, or that it can't do so without sacrificing visual fidelity to the point where it's not next gen anymore. It's as if anything less than what the PS4 can do is not considered next gen or something.

I bet Forza Horizon or Halo 5 will impress, can the PS4 do better under the same circumstances? of course, but that wasn't the question.

i think youre simply taking people's comments too literally...when someone says "The Xbone's ESRAM is too small for 1080p" i dont think ANYONE is saying the Xbone physically CANNOT render games in 1080p...the PS3 and 360 could do 1080p if you wanted them to...

Also, i dont think anyone would argue that the Xbone would have been better off without the ESRAM...evryone agrees that it helps performance, but that doesnt change the fact that even though it increases performance of the hardware it is too small an amount to match what is being achieved on the PS4...THAT coupled with the generally lesser powered overall hardware (on the GPU front anyway) and you've got a recipe for a generation of games with lower resolutions, and scaled back effects...

 

[madmackem]

Saying things like "Serious cut-backs" is comparable to something. Tomb Raider is a 1080p game. Looking at the game as a stand alone, it really looks great, has definitive edition assets and a solid framerate. What exactly has been seriously "Cut back"? when you look at the PS4 version and notice that it runs at a higher framerate? or when analyzing textures up close and the PS4 has a little sharper textures here and there when put side by side? Well there you have it, that's exactly what I'm talking about, stop comparing to the PS4 and ask yourself, can the Xbox One achieve next gen visuals at 1080p? Yes, does ESRAM prove to be a burden? Yes, can developers work around Esram and achieve desired results? Yes.

Since when, it drops like a bitch on xbox one to the point control was being effected.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Forza 5 on Xbone never really impressed me...It never really gave me that "next gen" feel ....not even close..it looks like a well polished, super optimized Xbox 360 game imho...or a visually decent cross-gen game at most, which is what it is in all honestly. Why people wave that Forza 5 flag for its visuals baffles me beyond belief and i am being as fair and unbiased as anyone can be while saying this.

To tell you the truth, I feel that way about most next/current gen games whose visuals people on this forum seem to obsess over, they're really puzzling to me. Thankfully, I'm not a guy who cares much about pretty graphics.

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah that 2014, forward rendered, baked lighting game with 2d sprites replacing real geometry...

Yep, no problem with ESRAM... not at all.

I am not sure why they go around saying this stuff... my eyes can see the problem.

 

[Erasus]

Well yeah, you can run native 1080p games on PS3 too. That doesn't speak at all to how good the game looks besides that.

This.
Sure it can output in 1080p resolution, but then other things have to be paired down.

 

[phosphor112]

Someone whip out the frame buffer calcs.

24 bit deferred lighting engine.

Killzone Shadow Fall:
1080p
1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600
2,073,600 x 8 bit colors x 24 bit = 398,131,200 bits
Divide by 8 to turn into bytes: 49,766,400 Bytes
Divide by 1024 = 48,600 KB
Divide by 1024 = 47.46 MB
~48 > 32

BF4 PS4 (uses same bit depth)
900p

1600 x 900
(((1,440,000 x 8 x 24) / 8 ) / 1024) / 1024 =
32.96 MB
32.96 > 32

BF4 XB1 (uses same bit depth)
720p
1280 x 720
(((921,600 x 8 x 24) / 8 ) / 1024) / 1024 =
21.1 MB

21.1 < 32

Moral of the story, eSRAM is a limit for game engines with dynamic lighting,

EDIT: All of this excludes MSAA which would increase this even more.

 

[LittleJohnny]

well...when youre dealing with consistently scaled back effects and lower frame rates, in ADDITION to lower native resolutions like we have seen in just about every multiplatform game comparison to date. it certainly suggests that bottlenecks are being hit on the Xbone 's hardware before the PS4's

Annnd... we're back to comparing PS4 vs X1 lol.


That bottleneck could be anywhere from the lower spec'd GPU with just 12 CU vs 18 CU, or the 16 RoPs vs the 32 RoPs or the DDR3 vs GDDR5. I just don't necessarily agree that the 32MB of ESRAM is the sole problem. Maybe in the context that they're expecting ESRAM to save the day, and the developer simply answers, "It's not enough" lol

 

[Damigos]

I dig forza 5 but this a shot I took the day I got it. Look at that crowd, the grass behind them and those freaking trees!

Hmm, haven't noticed that. That is not a current gen racing game..
Maybe it belongs in the PS360 era

 

[Metalingus5150]

Going by the numbers above, would the Xbone be able to pull off a game at 900p 60fps?

 

[Chobel]

24 bit deferred lighting engine.

Killzone Shadow Fall:
1080p
1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600
2,073,600 x 24 bit = 49,766,400 Bytes
Divide by 1024 = 48,600 KB
Divide by 1024 = 47.46 MB
~48 > 32

BF4 PS4 (uses same bit depth)
900p

1600 x 900
((1,440,000 x 24) / 1024) / 1024 =
32.96 MB
32.96 > 32

BF4 XB1 (uses same bit depth)
720p
1280 x 720
((921,600 x 24) / 1024) / 1024 =
21.1 MB

21.1 < 32

Moral of the story, eSRAM is a limit for game engines with dynamic lighting,

EDIT: All of this excludes MSAA which would increase this even more.

8 bit = 1 Byte so you need to divide all these buffer sizes by 8. So in all these cases eSRAM should be enough to hold the framebuffer.

 

[Gorillaz]

lol

secret Agent Phil putting in overtime

 

[mrklaw]

I think eventually they will get first party games at 1080p simply because they will feel they have to compete with PS4. But third party games will always have the PS4 and PC to contend with. By any metric, and even with improved tools, the Xbox is behind both of those platforms (even if it literally had GDDR5 the GPU is still less capable).

So they will need to compromise on either resolution, framerate, or 'time per pixel' (I.e effects, Image quality etc). That can be done on a case by case basis - Ryse really benefits from a high IQ, so they can lower the resolution and frame rate to get that. forza needs 60fps, so they lowered the detail on screen to get there.