Support NeoGAF

[Helghan]

If this game was made by a more technical proficient studio it would have a 60 fps mode. Compromise their vision my ass.

Could definitely be the case. But that can be said about every game. I would also like that every game was made only by the best developers that are able to get every single drop of power out of console, but here we are... The game still looked pretty amazing, I haven't played it yet so I can't comment if 30fps will be annoying.

 

[poodaddy]

Bro what the fuck are you talking about right now Phil?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The dude just came and flat-out called everyone stupid.

 

[HawarMiran]

I don't understand why they don't offer the possibility of lower resolution (upscaled) with higher FPS

 

[DryvBy]

If the intention was to avoid having a mode with massive cut-backs to reach 60, then yes of course it's a creative choice.


30 FPS:

60 FPS:

You're wrong and shows you're doing the job of PR instead of list ring to what he said. This is not a platform issue, according to Spencer.

 

[R6Rider]

Now do Horizon Forbidden West!

*crickets*

That's on his list of select titles.

 

[kyussman]

What you just said makes no sense Phil.....you wouldn't choose 30 over 60 because 60 is the better choice for the person playing the game.......carry on though.

 

[RoadHazard]

Weasel word hour is still on, I see.
Look, just admit that you can't do both at the same time. Your machine is 500 dollars and 3 years old on the market. People shouldn't expect ridiculous things all the time.

One does wonder though why they can't drop the resolution and some graphics settings to achieve the 60, but whatever. Point above still stands.

Probably this is a CPU issue, with all the logic they're running for objects etc. Resolution etc only affects the GPU, so that wouldn't help.

I'm not saying this is a Series X CPU issue though, I'm saying their engine is inefficient garbage. Which we already knew.

 

[diffusionx]

Well I’m glad they are getting ahead of it instead of avoiding another Redfall situation. If you want 60fps get it on PC and spec out your hardware to do that.

 

[adamsapple]

Now do Horizon Forbidden West!

*crickets*

Do what with it ?

Requiem or Starfield aren't cross-gen.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

What do you want more A buggy 60 fps or smooth 30 fps?

So its a technical issue?

 

[darrylgorn]

Look, think about it this way.

Bethesda games usually have a lot of bugs. But if they force 30 fps, you're only getting half of the bugs!

 

[Sub_Level]

30fps for this type of game is not a problem at all. But its clearly a hardware limitation lol nobody wants a framerate going from 60fps to sub-20fps. 30fps cap with some dips is a much better experience than variable 60 that jumps all over the fucking place. I remember playing tomb raider definitive edition on ps4 and wished it had the 30fps cap of the xboner version lol cuz that shit was not stable.

 

[Bernoulli]

If the intention was to avoid having a mode with massive cut-backs to reach 60, then yes of course it's a creative choice.


30 FPS:

60 FPS:

Horizon forbidden west 60 fps and 30 fps

 

[Saber]

Seems like they are giving some warning flags with this game.

Does this creative choice has something to do with "running surprisingly well" on S?

 

[adamsapple]

Horizon forbidden west 60 fps and 30 fps

That's a cross gen game that doesn't even come close to the kind of scale and scope of Starfield.

Bad example.

If you want a better example, look at the FF16 demo, the performance mode has lots of drops, even the Graphics mode drops to 20s.

 

[Bernoulli]

30fps for this type of game is not a problem at all. But its clearly a hardware limitation lol nobody wants a framerate going from 60fps to sub-20fps. 30fps cap with some dips is a much better experience than variable 60 that jumps all over the fucking place. I remember playing tomb raider definitive edition on ps4 and wished it had the 30fps cap of the xboner version lol cuz that shit was not stable.

Exactly the hardware can't handle it but now there is damage control that this is a "creative choice"

 

[RoadHazard]

It what universe a game of this scale with so many systems and interactivity is not technically impressive? I don’t get you people.

What's so impressive about it? It's not really doing anything Skyrim wasn't doing in 2011 on Xbox 360 from what I've seen. The whole space part of the game is a lot less impressive than games like No Man's Sky. You can't seamlessly land or take off, everything is just instanced zones (like how you had to load into each city in Skyrim).

 

[Loxus]

Do what with it ?

Requiem or Starfield aren't cross-gen.

The fact this game runs on Series S, there should be a 60fps mode on Series X with Series S settings. No excuses.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do what with it ?

Requiem or Starfield aren't cross-gen.

And? HFW is still arguably one of the best looking games out, cross-gen or not.

Okay, do the PS5 only expansion, which looks even better, and has a 60FPS mode without that hilarious foliage cutback. Full open world and air, land and sea traversal.

Your post literally makes them look inept on the technical side.

 

[RoadHazard]

So it's not a CPU issue or what?

People keep going back and forth on it.

OR is it that those devs don't know how to optimize well and in the case of Starfield it's that the Creation Engine is pretty shitty.

Meanwhile GTAV ran on the fucking PS3 and 360 (with the frame rate dipping below 30fps very frequently), yet on PS4 with a CPU that is 9x faster it still only managed 30fps and higher visuals. Along with this is the fact that some games are doing shit with 128 players on huge maps, destruction, and vehicles at dynamic 4k60fps.

Uh, the PS4 CPU is not 9x faster than the Cell, wherever did you get that idea? Only the GPU and RAM were a big upgrade between those two.

 

[Bernoulli]

That's a cross gen game that doesn't even come close to the kind of scale and scope of Starfield.

Bad example.

Yet you post a screenshot comparing to games that don't have the same scale and scope

Both starfield and Horizon are openworld
Starfield even has loading times by landing in the planet and entering planets

The problem here is hardware limitations or Bethesda don't want to spend time optimizing

 

[NeonGhost]

But NeoGAF told it’s because of all the systems in the game it can’t run at 60fps

 

[GHG]

Xbox Head Phil Spencer Says He Prefers Higher Frame Rates on Xbox Series X Over Resolution

Phil Spencer has said that he wants the Xbox Series X to make for better gameplay experiences, not just ones where there are "more pixels up on the screen."

www.dualshockers.com

We don’t have that in today’s generation, mainly because the CPU is under-powered relative to the GPU that’s in the box in order to reach a feel and frame rate and kind of consistency or variable refresh rate and other things that we want.

“As we were looking at the future, the feel of the games was definitely something that we wanted to have more focus on, not just throwing more pixels up on the screen.”

 

[DeepEnigma]

The problem here is hardware limitations or Bethesda don't want to spend time optimizing

That has always been their foray in the console arena. Hence one who has a PC, should only play their games on the PC. You are getting a much inferior experience on the consoles.

 

[adamsapple]

Yet you post a screenshot comparing to games that don't have the same scale and scope

Yeah, you completely missed the point lol. Plague Tale Requiem is a current gen only game where they had to pare back to go above 30/40 hz.

The fact this game runs on Series S, there should be a 60fps mode on Series X with Series S settings. No excuses.

S and X have the same CPU. The game is maxing out 4K and 1440p on both, GPU is not the issue.

 

[baphomet]

It's not even going to be a locked 30

 

[winjer]

This seems like the same lame excuse used for Redfall.
Bethesda is still using their old, buggy game engine, and can't get it to scale properly to 60 fps, without serious sacrifices.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

What's so impressive about it? It's not really doing anything Skyrim wasn't doing in 2011 on Xbox 360 from what I've seen. The whole space part of the game is a lot less impressive than games like No Man's Sky. You can't seamlessly land or take off, everything is just instanced zones (like how you had to load into each city in Skyrim).

Well my point is that it always was impressive.

I can’t blame casuals for only finding cutting edge graphics impressive. A game like Plague Tale surely is looking good. It also offers a linear brain dead experience with static world devoted of any interactivity or player freedom. No psychics no branching narrative no deep game systems. But it surely looks good!

 

[mrqs]

And? HFW is still arguably one of the best looking games out, cross-gen or not.

Okay, do the PS5 only expansion, which looks even better, and has a 60FPS mode without that hilarious foliage cutback. Full open world and air, land and sea traversal.

Your post literally makes them look inept on the technical side.

A cross-gen game was made with the PS4 in mind, so there's more room to make it run faster on more powerful machines.

A game made for next-gen only has more constraints.

Do you think Horizon looks better? Sure. I agree that it's a technical marvel. But that doesn't mean that a next-gen focused game isn't grinding the hardware so much that they can't really make it run consistently faster.

They're made on two completely different engines with completely different pipelines. It has nothing to do about how they look, but how they were made.

 

[MikeM]

Most powerful console shouldn’t proudly be touting 30fps. That should have died this gen.

 

[RoadHazard]

The fact this game runs on Series S, there should be a 60fps mode on Series X with Series S settings. No excuses.

Not if CPU utilization is the problem, which it almost certainly is.

 

[R6Rider]

Uh, the PS4 CPU is not 9x faster than the Cell, wherever did you get that idea? Only the GPU and RAM were a big upgrade between those two.

I had a typo and left out another line.

Overall console around 9x as powerful, and with a CPU that wasn't drastically different.

 

[Dick Jones]

If the intention was to avoid having a mode with massive cut-backs to reach 60, then yes of course it's a creative choice.


30 FPS:

60 FPS:

The problem is Spencer stated the consoles could hit 60 but chose not to. The consoles were capable for stable 60 but decided against it.

A simple line that it is 30fps a launch but they will look at bringing a stable 60fps in the future. A non answer that works.

 

[DeepEnigma]

A cross-gen game was made with the PS4 in mind, so there's more room to make it run faster on more powerful machines.

A game made for next-gen only has more constraints.

Do you think Horizon looks better? Sure. I agree that it's a technical marvel. But that doesn't mean that a next-gen focused game isn't grinding the hardware so much that they can't really make it run consistently faster.

They're made on two completely different engines with completely different pipelines. It has nothing to do about how they look, but how they were made.

The expansion is PS5 only, looks even better, and still has 60fps mode without all those sacrifices that the rat game has.

Keep going. This is cute watching people tie themselves into knots to defend this "creative choice" cuz of muh brand!!!

 

[Bernoulli]

Yeah, you completely missed the point lol. Plague Tale Requiem is a current gen only game where they had to pare back to go above 30/40 hz.




S and X have the same CPU. The game is maxing out 4K and 1440p on both, GPU is not the issue.

doesn't matter if the game is current gen or old gen stop trying to use that as an excuse

Digital foundry already said that the PS5 version of Horizon is the best looking game so far and the game has 30 fps and 60 fps mode without a problem

Redfall had both too but they decided to delay it and it'a current gen only game

Starfield if they want they can put a 60 fps mode without problems

 

[OmegaSupreme]

That's some creative spin

 

[MarkMe2525]

This is literally the case with any game being developed for a closed box. The frame rate, in any closed box, is determined by the developer.

 

[GHG]

Not if CPU utilization is the problem, which it almost certainly is.

Isn't the CPU in these consoles equivalent to an AMD 3700X?

 

[BlackTron]

It's a stupid thing to say but it technically is a creative choice because on console, everything you add-in, you need to take something else out.

Halo was a FPS game so they prioritized being able to run it on everything at high frames. This is an RPG which means frames are less important and graphics/scale of the world is more important.

Nonetheless he needs to shut up already he is terrible at this.

 

[DryvBy]

Yeah, you completely missed the point lol. Plague Tale Requiem is a current gen only game where they had to pare back to go above 30/40 hz.




S and X have the same CPU. The game is maxing out 4K and 1440p on both, GPU is not the issue.

You're talking about others missing the point? This is about the hardware not being the issue. That is the key.

Phil Spencer is saying this is not a hardware. Does Phil have your family hostage somewhere and you have to defend his wording with unrelated nonsense?

I love Nintendo, Sony and older Xbox stuff. Every person says stupid stuff. Ive probably had 4 non-sexually boners just today talking with my wife.

 

[Loxus]

Not if CPU utilization is the problem, which it almost certainly is.

Watch the PC version have low, medium and high settings. There is literally no excuse why they can't get this running at 60 fps.

 

[Shut0wen]

This game is definitely going to be bugged to shit, probably the same amount of bugs as new vegas on release, especially considering development has restarted twice since it was revealed, wouldnt be surprised if its pretty unoptimised on pc as well

 

[RoadHazard]

Well my point is that it always was impressive.

I can’t blame casuals for only finding cutting edge graphics impressive. A game like Plague Tale surely is looking good. It also offers a linear brain dead experience with static world devoted of any interactivity or player freedom. No psychics no branching narrative no deep game systems. But it surely looks good!

Sure, but that has nothing to do with it being technically impressive enough to be limited to 30fps on Series X. Skyrim was definitely more impressive for its time (and hardware) than this is now.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's a stupid thing to say but it technically is a creative choice because on console, everything you add-in, you need to take something else out.

Halo was a FPS game so they prioritized being able to run it on everything at high frames. This is an RPG which means frames are less important and graphics/scale of the world is more important.

Nonetheless he needs to shut up already he is terrible at this.

Halo barely run at 30FPS.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Of course it is. That's common sense. When you're designing a game around a piece of hardware, obviously the capabilities of that hardware (and how far you want to push it) are taken into consideration.


If they wanted to scale back systems, scale, lighting, texture detail, ambient occlusion, resolution etc.. etc.. they could've made a game that ran at 60fps on Series X.


That's not what this game is though.


Again, buy a high end PC if you want 4k/60 visuals. We're only going to continue to see these concessions more and more on these consoles as the generation goes on.

While what you say makes sense it’s not what the head of Xbox is trying to argue. He said they could have all of this at 60fps but choose not to do so because it’s a purely creative decision to cap the fps at 30fps.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[Bernoulli]

The expansion is PS5 only, looks even better, and still has 60fps mode without all those sacrifices that the rat game has.

Keep going. This is cute watching people tie themselves into knots to defend this "creative choice" cuz of muh brand!!!

it's crazy how they keep changing the goalpost every time you prove tjem wrong

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Sure, but that has nothing to do with it being technically impressive enough to be limited to 30fps on Series X. Skyrim was definitely more impressive for its time (and hardware) than this is now.

Ehhh, okay. Let’s agree to disagree, I don’t have the energy for this.

 

[nemiroff]

Reading this forum I sometimes wish I wasn't an adult with an engineering background..

There's so much desperate juvenile need to misunderstand the facts.

It's a closed hardware console, trying to achieve resolution, framerates and visual fidelity at the same time, of course they need sacrifice to reach a good balance, or there would be even more bitching. We're seeing that on Playstation with f.ex. Spiderman too

I'm so fucking happy I don't have to care about this when playing on a high end PC though. ~90fps is my bare minimum in most cases.