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Planetside 2 |OT| 12 Man Squads, 2000 Players, So Free You'll Want to Pay!

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
I'm buying it, for when it's time to annoy the server. I forsee lots of use from atop scarred mesa.
 
I think I have some spare SC and there really aren't any other weapons I'm interested in (not until the inevitable Scatter Pistol when they do faction-specific pistols).
 
Looks like no double/triple SC sale this year

They're doing a 40% off sale instead :/ (1000 extra SC for those with prepaid cards)

https://www.soe.com/news?view=station-cash-40-percent-off-july-4-2013
043.jpg


Celebrate July 4th with 40% OFF STATION CASH!
Posted on Wed Jul 03 2013

We’re celebrating our players this July 4th! For 24 hours*, get 40% off when you buy Station Cash with your Credit Card of Via PayPal.*

(please note, you will be required to log into your Station Account in order to complete your discount purchase)

Added Bonus!!

Do you have a $15 SOE Pre-Paid Game Card? We want you to enjoy the celebration too! Get an extra SC1000 when you redeem your $15 SOE Pre-Paid Game Cards on July 4th* only!!

*Offer valid only from 12:00am PDT July 4th, 2013 until 11:59pm PDT July 4th, 2013. Excludes purchases made via SMS
 

MrBig

Member
I wonder why they did that instead of an actual 2x sale. All it does is annoy the people that bought cards/codes (especially those that have codes worth other than $15) and increase their opportunity cost.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
If you redeem your Walmart $15 card on the 4th you get an extra 1000 SC

1500 SC + 500 SC (Walmart Bonus) + 1000 SC (4th Sale Bonus) = 3000 SC per card.

I mean, yeah, it's using Walmart's bonus to get a "double" XP for a regular one, but it's still cheap. A real Double, would make that card 4000, a triple would be 6000.


Yes, it's a double XP long weekend. Just wrapped up about 3 hours of play, and had to have gotten about 1000 certs. Average score an hour was somewhere north of 40,000 (Premium + Heroic Boost*2 as well as 2 alerts won = Hey, I can buy a gun)
 

Karakand

Member
Dozens of people running around spamming the firework gun--America, distilled.

I kind of want the stars and stripes camo.
 

Sblargh

Banned
I'm thinking of start playing this now on a casual fashion (like, once every blue moon and while drunk for some reason) so I don't play on spending money on it. Will it be too frustrating?
 
I'm thinking of start playing this now on a casual fashion (like, once every blue moon and while drunk for some reason) so I don't play on spending money on it. Will it be too frustrating?

Do you prefer to work alone and without goals when you play? If you answer yes to both of these, then you will be fine.

If you said no, however, then you may find the experience frustration. It is difficult to get anything done working alone, so joining an open squad may help you out. I recommend practicing nano-medicine or nano-repairing for easy certs and drunk love. Enjoy!
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
GU12 update time

Not alot of HUGE changes, but some nice additions (more loadouts, and "no Sundy Deploy zones" will be interesting)
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads%2Fserver-downtime-for-game-update-12-july-10-2013-6am-pdt-3pm-cest.140010%2F#.Ud002CrGE9A.twitter


Extended Interactive Tutorial
Added a new outdoor area to the interactive tutorial which starts after the respawn training. This new area has the following additional training topics:
Destroying vehicles (tanks)
AV Turrets
Jump pads
Ground vehicle driving
Vehicle ammo tower
Gate shield
Generator overloading
Added an energy shield that blocks access to the teleporter until the player completes the shooting segment.

Alert Frequency Changes
We’ve increased the time between alerts across the board and made further refinements to the population requirements that govern alert launches.

Recommended Server Chanages
Recommended servers are now provided for each faction instead of having one set of suggested servers for all new players.

More Loadouts (Lonestar Note: YES YES YES YES.gif)
Three new loadout tabs are unlocked for each class and vehicle as part of Membership
The member custom loadouts will immediately be unlocked for any current subscribers, and will unlock right away upon membership purchase for any new subscribers
The member custom loadouts will lock again if the player loses membership – however, the loadout configurations are saved, so if the player renews membership, all previously configured loadout information should be maintained
Four additional loadout tabs can be unlocked for all classes and vehicles via purchases in the Depot under the Utilities category

Gold Trim for Main Battle Tanks
Available in the Early Access category of the Depot.

Bumpers for Flash
Equippable in the new Trim Slot
Gold versions available in the Early Access Category

Infantry Updates
Improved Damage Feedback
Improved feedback when getting hit by enemy projectiles.

Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue that caused certain corpses to not receive revive attempts
Fixed some issues with the drop pod deploy radius not always behaving as intended
Popping in and out of ADS while firing should no longer stop the player model from playing recoil animations in 3rd person

Vehicle Updates
Fury Changes
Direct hit damage decreased from 750 to 300
Resist type for the weapon has improved against vehicles, which partially mitigates this decrease in direct hit damage
Time to reload increased from 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds

Bail Out FX
When a soldier “safe” ejects out of a vehicle, they will now play Bail FX around them. Safe eject is any eject where they are not intended to take fall damage: Galaxies, ESF’s w/ejection seat, Liberator w/ejection seat.
Bug Fixes
Sunderer decals now can extend to the hood of the vehicle
Fixed the missing startup audio for both Vulcan variants

UI Updates
Platoon Interface Improvements
Added an icon to the platoon leader
Added ability to see detailed squad information while in a platoon by clicking the panel for each squad in the platoon management screen

Point Capture Feedback
Added a text call out when players are in range of a capture point, but are unable to capture it due to:
Not having appropriate territory adjacency/lattice connection
Use of a MAX suit
Being inside a vehicle

Improved Vehicle Damage Feedback
Updated the directional damage arcs that display when you get hit
The intensity of the arcs are dependent on the normalized damage being received

HUD Element for SCU Vulnerability
Added a new element to the facility status panel to communicate the state of the SCU.
Secure: SCU is active and the shield is active, not vulnerable
Vulnerable: SCU is active but the shield is down
Overloaded: SCU has been overloaded but has not yet detonated
Destroyed: SCU has been destroyed

Other Miscellaneous Changes
The UI now shows indicators when vehicle passengers are hitting enemies
Recon device animation has been changed to show a single pulse instead of two
If a computer has less than 4GB of memory, only low texture quality will be available in the settings
Added the ability to bring up the score screen while on the death screen
Unified the HUD and map squad and instant action deployment functionality
They now share the same timers and notifications
Now can only be canceled by pressing the hotkey or clicking the button (i.e. hitting Esc to exit out of the map will no longer cancel the countdown)
Double-clicking a loadout number from the equipment or vehicle terminal will now equip yourself or spawn the vehicle of the selected loadout, respectively
Double-clicking a deployment location from the deployment list will now deploy you. Deploy, deployment, deploy, deploy.

Bug Fixes
Zebra Vehicle Camo should now be selectable in the loadout menu after purchasing the Mega Vehicle Camo Bundle
Fixed Ally/Enemy colors not showing correctly on in-world UI icons for explosives
Added a progress indicator to the redeem a code flow
Health bars should no longer intermittently display as empty when nanoweave armor is equipped
Players should no longer receive a revive prompt if they deploy as a teammate attempts to revive them
Non-members will no longer see an incorrect discount on the member’s sale in the Depot.
Battle Rifles, MAX AV right, MAX AI right, and MAX AA weapons are now properly tracked on the stats page
Fixed missing icons for the Walker in the Depot
Facility/ Environmental Updates

Sunderer No Deploy Zones
Facilities and Outposts on Indar and Amerish now have Sunderer No Deploy Zones.
These function just like the No Deploy Radius around allied deployed Sunderers
These zones prevent someone from parking a Sunderer right on top of a capture point, forcing players to fight to the capture points on foot

Warpgate Rotation
All faction warpgates have been rotated counter clockwise.
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue preventing players from resupplying consumables while in the VR training zone
Fixed non-functional teleporters at Arroyo Torre Station
Fixed a neutral spawn room teleporter at Feldspar Canyon Base
All Gravity Pads at the Saurva Overflow Depot should function correctly again
Replaced the missing south east facing vehicle pad at the Ikanam Bio Lab
Addressed two ground vehicle terminals overlapping at Saurva South Fortress
Removed a misplaced stair object at Crux Headquarters on Amerish
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
Things are moving way too slow. Havent played for a few weeks and wont play until they get continent locking in.

Yeah, they are going pretty slow. A lot of baby steps. I mean, we still don't have Amerish and Esamir lattice. Never mind Hossin.

But at least they are fixing bugs, and adding some good "quality of life" changes. But I agree with you. Slow.

At least they are working on the tutorial. That is pretty huge in my opinion. I remember when I started playing and there was no tutorial. What a huge barrier. I nearly quit half a dozen times because I didn't know where to go, what to do, what everything meant. They just dropped me into this massive world in the middle of fucking nowhere (no joke, a drop pod just falls from the sky into the middle of fucking nowhere your first time playing).

I feel like a lot of people try it the first time and get frustrated. Glad they are working on it.
 
Yeah, I haven't really played in 2 weeks either, login everyday to get my 48 certs but thats about it for now. Been having fun messing with Marvel Heroes and Warframe instead.

I feel like the devs are spending more time hammering out tutorial stuff for when the PS4 version launches, its important no doubt to get more people into the game but changes seem too slow atm for me. That and lauching a beta in China last month probably took quite alot of resources as well.
 

MrBig

Member
I'm sure SOE's dev focus is on EQ next right now. If you're not happy with the state of PS2 at the moment, take a break for a while, there's no sense in letting the current state put a damper on your outlook on the game. I've been on break for the last couple months.
 

Karakand

Member
Glad that revive bug (may be) is fixed. No deploy zones might shake things up a bit.

lmao @ Fury nerf.

Fuck the fixation on the tutorial. The best part of it is when they dump you in the middle of a battle via drop pod and you have no idea what you are doing.
 

MrBig

Member
Fuck the fixation on the tutorial. The best part of it is when they dump you in the middle of a battle via drop pod and you have no idea what you are doing.

From the recent gaf ps2 thread, a lot of people just load up the game for the first time, have no idea what they're doing, and give up either immediately or after a few hours. In a perfect world, yes, players should want to figure everything out for themselves and would relish the ability to do so, but that is not your common player of any game these days.
 
The No-Deploy Zone thing should be interesting. The problem with a lot of the smaller outposts is that the attackers can put a Sunderer in such a place where they have better access to the control point than the defenders. If not the control point then the vehicle terminal, and the attackers can just chain pull new Sunderers and have unlimited new spawn points.

I'm not playing as much as I was, but largely due to the fact that I'm deep into too many games at the moment (Civ V ain't gonna help matters). But yeah, its been too long without new continents or the lattice on Esamir/Amerish.
 
Glad that revive bug (may be) is fixed. No deploy zones might shake things up a bit.

lmao @ Fury nerf.

Fuck the fixation on the tutorial. The best part of it is when they dump you in the middle of a battle via drop pod and you have no idea what you are doing.

That nerf has been months coming, they didnt do it because it was on sale the day before they intended nerf
 

mr_nothin

Banned
Fury nerf was needed & has been planned for a while.

I'm sure SOE's dev focus is on EQ next right now. If you're not happy with the state of PS2 at the moment, take a break for a while, there's no sense in letting the current state put a damper on your outlook on the game. I've been on break for the last couple months.

Seems like they made tons more progress during the beta in less time. There were a lot of things added/taken away/completely changed all the time back then. We even got Esamir & Amerish within a couple of months. Guess they cant change as much "to see if it works" because they have people's money involved now.

I think that's slowing down progress a lot too. Before, we could try something out and be like "nah, dont like it" or "wow, yes! this works" and then have it decided whether or not it would stay in the game based on that. Now we have to take baby steps.

Welp, I cant wait for the medic revision, continent locking, hossin, and the battle islands. By then, I might have BF4 taking all my attention away....seems like they're going in the right direction now but who knows. We'll see! Will prob just play both.

The No-Deploy Zone thing should be interesting. The problem with a lot of the smaller outposts is that the attackers can put a Sunderer in such a place where they have better access to the control point than the defenders. If not the control point then the vehicle terminal, and the attackers can just chain pull new Sunderers and have unlimited new spawn points.

I'm not playing as much as I was, but largely due to the fact that I'm deep into too many games at the moment (Civ V ain't gonna help matters). But yeah, its been too long without new continents or the lattice on Esamir/Amerish.

Wish no-deploy came a lot sooner than now but too many ppl complained and didnt want to be "restricted". There's too many folks that want absolutely no rules in PS2 and just want a wild west style shooter with madness going in all directions. Cant wait for all of the real meta stuff to start making its way into the game.
 

Karakand

Member
From the recent gaf ps2 thread, a lot of people just load up the game for the first time, have no idea what they're doing, and give up either immediately or after a few hours. In a perfect world, yes, players should want to figure everything out for themselves and would relish the ability to do so, but that is not your common player of any game these days.

IIRC people itt were complaining that they had to trudge long distances on the map to get to a fight when there's an instant action button--UI overhauls and more informative menus seem like a better investment in new player retention than expanding the tutorial and, unlike the latter, those also benefit actually existing players too.

That nerf has been months coming, they didnt do it because it was on sale the day before they intended nerf

Has it? I don't keep up on what the community is complaining about, even when it ends up burning me (Zealot Overdrive).

I can tell you though that nerfs like that are why I'm probably not ever going to sink 1,000 certs into a single weapon unlock or ever spend any Station Cash on non-cosmetic items.
 
IIRC people itt were complaining that they had to trudge long distances on the map to get to a fight when there's an instant action button--UI overhauls and more informative menus seem like a better investment in new player retention than expanding the tutorial and, unlike the latter, those also benefit actually existing players too.



Has it? I don't keep up on what the community is complaining about, even when it ends up burning me (Zealot Overdrive).

I can tell you though that nerfs like that are why I'm probably not ever going to sink 1,000 certs into a single weapon unlock or ever spend any Station Cash on non-cosmetic items.

The nerf to Furys were planned I think a month or 2 before max abilities came out, acutally I think it was the big GU update after stealth flashes came out that they planned to nerf them
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Early GU13 talk (GU13 on 7/24)

Game Update 13 is right around the corner and it brings some pretty exciting change to Auraxis. Here are some highlights of the major changes and additions you can expect to see with the update. As always, last minute issues can pop up and delay some of these, but this is what we're looking at right now.

Esamir Lattice and Facility Refresh
The icy expanse known as Esamir has had a major facelift with virtually every facility and outpost modified and enhanced, with some being completely replaced. The goal with these changes is to enhance gameplay flow and help support the addition of the lattice connections on the continent. There are a lot of threads with screenshots floating around on the forums to check out, but I'd highly recommend (and humbly request) that if you can you spend some time on Public Test (Click for more info) Checking out the changes for yourself and providing some feedback. We could use all the help we can get finding bugs and areas in need of polish, so if you do hop on to Public Test please do make use of the report a bug feature - it really does help us out tremendously to have extra eyes on this kind of change.

Implants!
Implants are a consumable item that can be used to enhance your soldier with gameplay perks for a limited period of time. Each implant is equipped per-loadout and has a limited duration which is consumed only while that loadout is active. The implants are designed to give unique benefits that allow players to further refine their role & personal play-style without imparting an over-the-top player-power benefit.

Here are the currently planned implants we're launching with GU13:

Awareness: auto-spots enemies who damage you or that you damage
Battle Hardened: reduces camera shake from explosions and flinch
Clear Vision: Protects against concussion and flash grenade
EMP Shielding: Protects against EMP Grenade effects
Enhanced Targeting: increases the range that you can see enemy health bars and names
EOD HUD: Allows you to detect enemy explosives in a short radius around you
Regeneration: Slowly regenerates health over time when not in combat
Safe Landing: Reduces fall damage
Sensor Shield: Makes you undetected on enemy radar/motion sensors
Thermal Reduction: Prevents the wearer from being highlighted by thermal vision

We will be starting with these implant types available with more being added over time.

In addition to the implants we're putting in some feedback about implant resistance, so when you, as an EMP grenade user hit someone using an EMP Shielding Implant you'll receive some feedback to let you know it wasn't effective.


Implants will have relatively short durations (Measured in hours, not days) and low costs. Like weapons, they'll be available to purchase for both Certification Points and Station Cash. We're still finalizing the durations and costs for these items, but we'd love to hear feedback on the system.

Platoon Enhancements:
We're continuing to implement suggestions from players for platoon and squad management, with GU13 we've got two big player requests coming in:
Platoon voice channel management, ability for platoon leaders to set platoon VOIP channel to only be used by squad leaders
Platoon leader waypoints per squad, ability for platoon leaders to set individual squad waypoints for Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta squads.

Spawn Changes:
Several enhancements to the respawn window:
There is now a category for Squad spawn points, if you're not in a squad this will allow you to auto-join a squad.
We've added some more respawn options, these should allow you to respawn at more locations near where you died, previously by default you were able to spawn at the nearest outpost, large outpost and facility (in addition to local spawn points, squad spawn points and reinforcement requests), now you'll be able to spawn at the nearest linked base (or adjacent base on non-lattice continents) in addition to the above, this should create some more consistently available fallback / reinforce positions.
Chat window added to the respawn screen

ESF Updates:
We are working on some extensive ESF changes that Kevmo has outlined (here). These changes are going to be coming over the next 2-3 game updates, starting with GU13. With GU13 you can expect:
Retuning of the default and rotary nose guns
When an enemy vehicle is destroyed via crashing, suicide or the player logging out the last player to damage the vehicle (within 10 seconds) will be awarded a kill credit.
New Weapons:
There are 4 new weapons coming with GU13:
NS-7 PDW SMG: This SMG has a lower damage drop-off than all the other SMGs, allowing it to perform well at short and medium ranges. Its low recoil and very quick center speed (fastest in the class) allow those with good burst control to extend it's range even further.
NC LA3 Desperado Pistol: This 2x burst pistol has a fast burst but slower overall rate of fire. The fast burst mixed with moderate damage makes this pistol a solid choice at close range, though low accuracy will limit its effectiveness at range.
TR TS2 Inquisitor: Equipped with an extended magazine by default, this pistol gives the TR a solid all-around option that has very high sustainability and damage output per magazine.
VS Cerberus: High upfront damage mixed with an above average rate of fire for that damage class makes this pistol a good choice at close range. Low accuracy will limit the pistol‘s effectiveness at range.
Suit Slot tuning:
The cert costs for the Ammo Belt cert line have been retuned.
Advanced Shield Capacitor has been tuned to make shields recharge significantly faster.
Vanu weapon audio update:
Most VS infantry weapons have had their audio significantly updated to be more impactful and satisfying.

And of course we have a pile of bug fixes and other misc. polish, performance fixes and tuning coming with the update too numerous to list, and full patch notes will be available as we get closer to releasing the update.

Our current plans are to release GU13 next Wednesday, 7/24.

As always, we're excited to hear your thoughts and feedback on the update and these upcoming features, and once again encourage you to check out the changes on Public Test before they go live next week!
See you on Auraxis!
-
 
None of the implants seem at all overpowered or game-breaking in anyway. Just the time-limited consumable and buying with SC is just dumb. The real-money consumables haven't/aren't destroying Mechwarrior Online, they're just conceptually dumb.

Also, the lack of NC ScatterPistol is criminal.
 

MrBig

Member
The amount of power they grant is irrelevant, the power they all grant is over the power of any player that doesn't have them, completely circumventing skill, forcing you to buy into them with your money or time to be competitive. It is a direct, front facing power increase with no reason to not use them.

I may be ok with them if they all had equivalent downsides, eg awareness gives the stated benefit, but makes you more vulnerable to vision impairing via flash/concussion grenades (as discussed in the reddit thread on this), and were tied to BR instead of certs/SC, but that would still be a power creep even if they don't have to be directly purchased.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
One thing I've read, is VS is getting a weapon fire audio change. Maybe a little less pewpewpew
 
I really like the new Esamir.

The tree's add a lot of variety to the normal barren wastelands and all the new walls at the bases will add a lot to infantry fights. I also like that there are still wide open areas for armor and air to fight
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
The amount of power they grant is irrelevant, the power they all grant is over the power of any player that doesn't have them, completely circumventing skill, forcing you to buy into them with your money or time to be competitive. It is a direct, front facing power increase with no reason to not use them.

I may be ok with them if they all had equivalent downsides, eg awareness gives the stated benefit, but makes you more vulnerable to vision impairing via flash/concussion grenades (as discussed in the reddit thread on this), and were tied to BR instead of certs/SC, but that would still be a power creep even if they don't have to be directly purchased.

Dunno, I don't see anything that would make someone more competitive. Yeah, do they give you boosts? Sure. And if this was a small scale TDM game like COD, I would agree with you. But this is a game where sometimes 100 vs 100 happen. Someone having the ability to take less fall damage? Reduce camera shake? That wont matter on this grand of a scale of combat.

Now, if you are worried about negating skill, look at the tech tree. 250 extra armor? Extra grenades? Shields for tanks? Cooldown for your abilities? THATS circumventing skill. Not the ability to not be affected by flash grenades (I can count on one hand the amount of times I have been flashed).

I think you guys are making WAY too big of a deal.
 

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
So I started playing yesterday and uh... it's a bit confusing. I put about 2 trillion hours into PS1 but there's a lot going on here. Still seems pretty fun though.
 

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Did you go through the tutorial?

I can't remember if the extended tutorial is up on live yet or just PTS

There was definitely no tutorial option if it's up. My main confusion came with leveling up my guy and knowing where to spend certs on what. Too many options!

Where does most of gaf play? Need some teamwork action going on.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
So I started playing yesterday and uh... it's a bit confusing. I put about 2 trillion hours into PS1 but there's a lot going on here. Still seems pretty fun though.

Dude, trust me. I was right there with you.

When you first start, you are overwhelmed. Looks like a fuckton of shit.

But if you look back on it a month down, you will realize that there really wasn't that much to learn......It looks super overwhelming right now, but it isn't.

And I played when there was no tutorial and they dropped you literally into battle when you first start, hahaha.

Keep with it though. A truly addicting game.

There was definitely no tutorial option if it's up. My main confusion came with leveling up my guy and knowing where to spend certs on what. Too many options!

Where does most of gaf play? Need some teamwork action going on.

Open up your options, and at the bottom, it says support. Click that and there should be a tutorial option. When you started a new character, it should have put you in the tutorial. As for your guy, choose ONE class. Focus on them.

For engies and medics, focus on their repair tool and medic gun respectively.

Also, I'm pretty sure there is no GAF clan, so play wherever you like. I play on Matherson.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Most play on Mattherson, but even I'm not sure about that. We're pretty fractured. 3 or 4 of us are on Azure Twilight (VS) on that server, but I haven't been on in a week, and I'm even less sure about the others (MrBig and Razgriz are 2 that I can remember).

SOE really needs to bring in character transfer, so to make it easier to bring back GAF to planetside.
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
So I've put about 12 hours into this in the last week. I initially started it up because I knew it was CPU dependent and I just did a new computer build, so I wanted to stress it. Surprisingly, I ended up having quite a bit of fun.

Started kinda toying with the idea of buying a couple gun upgrades I was looking at just for kicks, since the game itself was free. And I *NEVER* buy stuff like this. But before I did, came to see what kind of community the game has on GAF. Really disappointed to see there's no clan, no "hop on times", and posts from the beginning of the month are at the top of the page. I have a really hard time enjoying games that I can't talk about with others on a daily basis :(
 

MrBig

Member
So I've put about 12 hours into this in the last week. I initially started it up because I knew it was CPU dependent and I just did a new computer build, so I wanted to stress it. Surprisingly, I ended up having quite a bit of fun.

Started kinda toying with the idea of buying a couple gun upgrades I was looking at just for kicks, since the game itself was free. And I *NEVER* buy stuff like this. But before I did, came to see what kind of community the game has on GAF. Really disappointed to see there's no clan, no "hop on times", and posts from the beginning of the month are at the top of the page. I have a really hard time enjoying games that I can't talk about with others on a daily basis :(

Yeah there's not much activity in this OT but I see people posting about PS2 fairly often in other gaming side threads, so there's quite a few gaffers playing, but not enough a community interest to keep a stable clan so we all pretty much split up into different communities outside of GAF.
 
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