Mr Moose
Member
Nothing about console wars, the games are shit to average no matter the platform they are on.
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Platform X (aka Sony) and their relationship with indies
- Thread starter onesvenus
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Nothing about console wars, the games are shit to average no matter the platform they are on.
Sony have enough problems with Lyin' Jim Ryan at the helm, without the games media doing hit pieces and capping for XB, making every small thing into the antichrist of gaming. Sony fans, when we see shit we call shit - especially todo with Ryan. We dont kiss someone's ass like XB fans with daddy Phil. It'd be really nice if the games media took Sony to task for their real shortcomings instead of minor crap skewed at helping everyone's literal green eye'd monster.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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That's disgusting. I hope that's not true.Maybe he should show Sony the piss jar under his desk like Johnathan Blow to show his dedication
Outrunner
Member
Sony probably is very selective in which Indies get premium support. If you check the PlayStation indies page, everything in there, although made by indie developers, has a lot of quality on it. Most indies are not up to this standard, so I think it's normal Sony implements something to filter this.
www.playstation.com
PlayStation Indies | PS4 & PS5 Games | PlayStation
Discover the best indie titles being published on PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5 and PS Now.
www.playstation.com
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Are any of those problems meaningful? Sony is still completely dominating Xbox. Even though PS has sold more, its still far more expensive on the scalper market, meaning the demand is still way way higher for PS.
It sucks for indies that Sony is doing this, but they are doing this because they can. PS market is so huge that indies will jump through hoops.
Sony hasn't really cared about indies in a big way for a very long time. They had an indie initiative they killed on the PS4. Still, the indies will come. Too many PSs out there to ignore.
Except part of the issue as noted by the devs/pubs that started this commotion was that they are barely breaking even (in relation to costs for dev/publishing on PS) or not even getting a return after jumping through said hoops for the PS platform, even with the large PS userbase.
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Faithless83
Banned
The Elders Scrolls news and the 2 Studios acquisitions put people on "damage control mode" I see.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And yet, most indies come to PS.
Sure, they are not all going to succeed. Not saying its large market is guarantee of success. Some of these these indies don't even bother releasing on XBox. And yes, compared to Switch and Steam, you would expect most indies to perform far worst on PS if its not even coming out on Xbox. Switch and Steam are kinda known for indies being extremely succesful.
I dont know how common it is for an indie to do better on XBox. Would be surprised if its common. Especially since, the sales for indie games, certainly seem to be a lot worse on Xbox. Thats the thing I dont get about these complaints. I dont have a PS anymore and the one thing I miss is Sonys superior indie games sales.
Despite indies being better off on Switch and Steam, most of em still come to PS. Why? There's a reason. Sony's practices suck and play and big part in indies difficulties, yet as I said before, that is not stopping them. Without knowing the figures you would have to assume due to the huge market, its actually worth it for a lot em.
PS gets more indies than Xbox, or at least non exclusive ones certainly.
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Andodalf
Banned
Sony doesn’t let you out your game on sale. Why? Because they want to be able to charge for that right.
Mr Moose
Member
Mr Moose
Member
Why don't these pussies just say PlayStation instead of Platform X?
ManaByte
Gold Member
Wow free dev kits. Maybe that's because they can turn a retail Xbox into a dev kit with just an update.
Still that's much better than the other platform that sold a developer a dev kit for their handheld right before shutting down the store.
Probably fearing retaliation.
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MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
Imagine loving a corporation as much as this guy lol.
According to the ID@Xbox site in the FAQ at the bottom, if you're approved in the program you get 2 dev kits for free.
Mr Moose
Member
But it's easy to work out who they are talking about. Instead they say things like this
Also, $25k? Damn lol.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
A corporation that gave me so much joy and perfect professional tools? Justified. Also his games are pure garbage shovelware.
I think it's just tongue in cheek at this point, following the lead of the OG tweets.
Darlingcognito
Member
Yeah only games that last 4 days interest me. Sorry Indies.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The problem is that Sony really don't need to give a shit.
It seems pretty counter-intuitive for Sony to deliberately sabotage sales on its platform, meaning that likely what's happening is that there's some sort of priority system in-place and these guys are failing to meet the cut-off.
The brutal truth is that Sony's job is to push stuff it deems likely to be the most profitable for the Playstation platform, not just every Joe Schmoe's game. There will always be a few winners and a whole load of also-rans, and the ratio is largely going to depend upon the amount of other content competing for attention.
As someone already pointed out. that revenue breakdown pie chart shows them having the worst results on the biggest and busiest storefronts. Which just drives home the point that its all about visibility, a commodity that by its very nature is finite and limited.
It might seem unfair for them to charge $25k for "featured" status, but if you look at it from a business perspective its basically an acid test to see if the publisher is willing to spend to promote their product status. And that being the case, they are likely to spend elsewhere too in order to drum up interest, as opposed to simply plopping it out into the marketplace and expecting someone else to champion it for them.
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When Sony has a big sale, there tends to be just so many more indies on sale than when Xbox has sales. Thats the thing that confuses me the most about this.
And Switch probably has the best, but always felt Sony is not far behind. I am a pretty big indie gamer, far more into indie games than AAA.
I have an Xbox series X, not PS5. I dunno maybe its because there are a lot more indies on PS than Xbox, so its easier for the lesser known ones to get lost. But PS straight up has more indies on sale on a regular basis than Xbox does.
And Switch probably has the best, but always felt Sony is not far behind. I am a pretty big indie gamer, far more into indie games than AAA.
I have an Xbox series X, not PS5. I dunno maybe its because there are a lot more indies on PS than Xbox, so its easier for the lesser known ones to get lost. But PS straight up has more indies on sale on a regular basis than Xbox does.
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bender
What time is it?
This is more empathetic. It looks like their game has never gone on sale:
You'd think Sony would have a console for developers/publishers that would let them submit patches, apply for sales, submit blog posts for updates, etc.
All of the platform holders want to sell the most games they can, and yes that's why they have curated indies they feature on a shortlist. Sony and Nintendo have special webpages for high profile Indies releasing soon or available. Microsoft isn't going to feature shit games, but instead show games like Deaths Door at E3.
I think the issue at hand is that there's not a lot of support coming from Sony to those that don't make that cut off and still want to do their best to make informed decisions and marketing with their game on Sony's platform.
Not every game is good and absolutely Sony isn't responsible for the success or failure of any game, but they as a platform holder should be doing their best to work with developers of all sizes. It's just good customer service, with the customer being the developer. That's all.
squarealex
Member
Good
Look that shite on Steam Store or Nintendo eShop.
Indie need Free billboard ads on PSN? Yeah, sure...
Look that shite on Steam Store or Nintendo eShop.
Indie need Free billboard ads on PSN? Yeah, sure...
Literally not what anyone is arguing for.
bender
What time is it?
The lack of effort the put into their console store and webstore designs is kind of baffling. It's no wonder the experience for lower tier indie devs/publishers is so confusing.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Strictly speaking these are business partners or associates, not customers. Which is a big difference in the sense that a customer isn't expected to carry their share of the workload in order to maximize benefit from the relationship.
Being honest, making these complaints public is such a stupid, amateur move that to an extent it validates Sony's judgement in keeping them at arm's length. Its just not good business making stuff like this personal and emotional - what do they hope to achieve from this?
In my opinion, yes.
Some issues PS faces under Ryan, and why they're
bad:
- Mixed Messaging surrounding upgrade paths -
The Spiderman PS4 Remaster bundled only with SP:MM debacle, before Sony reigned back and made it standalone purchaseable (if memory serves correctly). Control non-Ultimate Edition upgrade "not being possible" said the devs before accidentally giving it out for free then taking it back before Sony stepped-in and made it a monthly PS+ game to get out from underneath the bad PR. The confusion surrounding FF7 Remake's upgrade path/dlc availability depending on what version of the game you have. On top of that you have the issue of PS5 downloding PS4 versions of games, which just confuses people even more. How many more of these before people start touting that often heard maxim about Apple for XB/GP as a retaliation point against Sony? "XB? GP? ... It just works".
- Mixed Messaging surrounding 'Generations' and Cross-Gen Games -
I don't think there's too much to say here. The gist of Ryan's 'we believe in generations' line was a shot across the bow at XB having no real system sellers that are next gen exclusive. It was a shot at Sony Backwards Compatability fans (as in "we believe in generations... and PS5 is our focus so stfu about bc!") Hey, if that's the case, I reallly don't like it, but fine at least I'll get the best games possible... wait, what? How many of these games are coming to PS4 and PC also? So you mean to say, not designed around and built to take proper advantage of all those PS5 software and hardware bells and whistles. I wanted the end of loading corridors and squeezing through rocks in the wall, but if shit is built with PS4 and PC in mind, I guess I'll still be doing those, eh?
Wait.. what do you mean even games that are still yet to come for the next few years are also coming to PS4? So... why do I own a PS5 then (apart from generalized faster loading times via using an SSD vs HDD)? Don't piss on me and tell me it's rain, you lying sack of crap.
- Bad messaging surrounding Backwards Compatability -
You simply can't deny BC when your competitor is surviving mostly on BC rather than making next-gen blockbusters. Ryan's comments about 'who'd want to play that?' are abhorent. That should be my choice to give you money for old games, streaming or re-purchase, but we've not even been given the opportunity to do so. AND that's putting aside the unfavorable comparison to XB where their framerate increases, or resolution buffs happen for free, rather than being wrapped in a remaster or a repurchase. This kind of shit resonates with the general public, and Ryan is SO out of touch here it's inexcusable. It's not even sound business sense, since he's a business man. Leaving so much money on the table...
- Bad marketing surrounding PSNow -
For all the ass kissery that XBGP gets... did you know PSNow far, faar outweights the number of games on it? More than doubles it. And it's cheaper? Why aren't more people talking about this service? Sony don't even need to put their games day 1 onto PSNow, and I wouldn't want them to. But they do need to adress PSNow's visability issues. And I think the two main problems with this are that you can't market being able to download any game off the service to your SSD and play natively... because you can't! And it doesn't have the backwards compatability factor working for it to pad it's numbers even higher. BC and GP go hand in hand, it should be the same for BC and PSNow. "Oh but rumored to be doing a big PSNow 2.0 revamp, or a PSN/PStore 2.0 revamp, they even signed a deal with MS to use MS' Azure severs..." Yeah? Well lets fucking see it then. I'm tired of waiting.
- PS5's Forgetfulness for Games Installs & DLC Downloads -
I don't know about anyone else, but my PS5 on occassion wipes my installed games out of nowhere, or messes-up their dlc status. Like I'll boot a game I was playing last night, and suddenly Im getting the DLC not found/continue to wipe save data or download the DLC... whilst the DLC is sat on my PS5 ssd! Even checking 'game content' says all 7 pieces for this particular game are there. Usually an uninstall of the game and a reinstall fixes this hiccup, but it's heart racing every time to think you've lost your progress, or will have to wait to redownload the game and just hope it works this time. Thank god the game dl and instals are fast on PS5.
There was also something wrong with it reading gamesave data where the data was on my main account, for games purchased on foreign PStores. It just wouldn't read the gamesave data, and acted like I'd never played the game before. All this still happens even now. It feels like a gamble if my save data is secure.
- So much of PS's issues seem to come from riding the PS4 momentum into the next gen, but all these issues and bad messaging chip away, and chip away for the hardcore gamer. They add-up for the casual gamer. "Why should I pay £70 during a pandemic, when over here I can get the same game on GP for free*? I save more money in the long run over here, fuck PS being greedy."
- Jim is making Sony look completely inept. How many of those house-hold PS3/PS4 titles came from studios that are now either multiplatform or not making Sony games at all? At the very least Quantic Dream, SuperMassive Games shouldn't have become multiplatform, and ReadyAtDawn shouldnt' be owned by Facebook right now. Until this week, it was a real concern that HouseMarquee and BluePoint would be discussed in the same manner.
And as far as Kojima Productions? After the fuss PS4 leadership team made about Kojima being on PS4... seriously find a significant other who looks at you the same way Andrew House did Kojima and you're set for life... this isn't just the same as GTA and Metal Gear showing-up on an XB360 E3 stage, it would be so much more devestating today and make Sony look even more inept.
AdjudicatorHead
Member
Oh boy, where does one even start with the inaccuracies here…
I'm happy for a proper discussion and gain more knowledge? I'm just saying that this is how it comes accross to most people. I'm not the only one complaining about these talking points.
odhiex
Member
This is unfortunate, maybe he could try to reach out more Sony peoples, like Shuhei Yoshida etc? Or any other indie developers to share their experiences.
Hey, I understand that marketing and selling your games is tough, especially in the platform as popular
yet complicated as Playstation. At least, he could exhaust every available options.
Hey, I understand that marketing and selling your games is tough, especially in the platform as popular
yet complicated as Playstation. At least, he could exhaust every available options.
PuppetMaster
Member
I like some indy games. But there are VERY FEW good indy games. Most are complete trash.
People can't just say "indy game" to try to get automatic sympathy anymore.
PS4 and PS5 were incredibly easy systems to build games for relative to previous generations. And because of this there is quite lot of low effort trash filling out the catalog.
Sony is doing good by curating at least what we see on the top page of the store etc. But honestly there is still room for improvement.
People can't just say "indy game" to try to get automatic sympathy anymore.
PS4 and PS5 were incredibly easy systems to build games for relative to previous generations. And because of this there is quite lot of low effort trash filling out the catalog.
Sony is doing good by curating at least what we see on the top page of the store etc. But honestly there is still room for improvement.
You can't use Us(Ntsc) version of a game with Eu(Pal) dlc and vise versa. On game saves ps5 and ps4 versions are different, its probably up to the developer/publisher to port those.
Zeroing
Banned
If you have a platform with lot´s of games, it is hard to get your small game noticed. That is logical.
On the balance Sony is the same company that started putting indie games in their conferences and took a lot of negative feedback for doing so, anyone remember the joke, indiestation?
There are good games and bad games, either they are AAA or indie ( A )
On the balance Sony is the same company that started putting indie games in their conferences and took a lot of negative feedback for doing so, anyone remember the joke, indiestation?
There are good games and bad games, either they are AAA or indie ( A )
Sorry, I should have explained those better as seperate bullet points. I'm aware of the game purchase needs to have dlc purchase from the same region store.
On PS4 I made a habbit of buying games on sale cheaper from USA PStore. Together with the exchange rate and if a sale was on, sometimes I could get myself like a 90% discount when something was on sale on USA PStore, but not the UK one at that point in time. As I played most things on my main UK account, and the USA account was set to use my PS4 as it's primary console, everything worked pretty well.
The issue with foreign PStore games, is that when I downloaded the game and it's DLC from my USA account onto my PS5, and the downloaded my UK gamesave data, and loaded-the game up on my main UK account, I expected it to ''see'' the UK account's gamesaves, and act normally like the PS4 had. No matterwhat I did however, it wouldn't read them. This seemed to be an issue, like when PS5 would accidentally give you the PS4 version of the PS5 game you wanted, etc. I had hoped it had gone away in various patches, but yesterday I had the issue again. I should look into it all again and setup defined parameters for troubleshooting, but then again, everything is still working fine on PS4, this seems to be a 'PS5 being dumb' issue, like the downloading of the wrong version of the game etc.
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Maybe the saves are ps4 version and you are playing ps5 version. Check your saves.
Maybe your saves are foreign and were denied entry due to covid restrictions.
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I am only dealing with PS4 versions of games, such as WWE 2K19 or Life Is Strange. In fact, If I recall correctly, those are the two instances I'm referring to.
- LIS the US-purchased game not reading my UK account's gamesaves. PS4 still reads everything juust fine under that scenario, so I'm gonna assume it's something to do with PS5 specifically.
- WWE 2K19 the UK-purchased game played under UK account, that likes to routinely uninstall itself. Or tell me to download the DLC when all the DLC is sat on the PS5 ssd. A game uninstall and reinstall usually fixes it, but it's heart-stopping every time.
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Are saves files affected by Ntsc and Pal?
I'm not sure how you mean?
Everything still runs fine on PS4. I just assume there to be some kind of hiccup with Sony changing the Primary PS4 sytem to the PS5's Enable Content & Sharing system. Overall... it's just an annoyance, having to do the uninstall-and-reinstall dance every couple of weeks on PS5. It makes you kind of skittish about possibly losing your gamsave data. Gotta have a backup in the PS Cloud and on a pendrive. Seeing as PS4 ''just worked'', it seems like a needless negative tickbox for PS5 when it faces lots of other issues like Rest Mode fuckery on PS5, or the PS5 downloading the PS4 version of a PS5 game etc. Needless complexity and issues, which isn't what Sony need right now, when a lot of XB's play for casuals is ''Play on any device, it just works''.
Microsoft is a software company. Why are you installing/unistalling dance?
Ps4 and ps5 are different systems, it not windows
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Warablo
Member
It really isn't lol
... what? I didn't mention windows. I only compared it to XB in terms that the gamesave/dlc issue(s) affect PS5 and cause confusion whereas XB doesn't have issues reading XB1/360 saves. But to kill that comparison; the PS4 itself doesn't go around wiping my game installs, or not reading my DLC, or gamesaves.
I'm uninstalling the game and reinstalling it, because that's the behaviour that makes the PS5 go ''oh yeah, here's your DLC on the ssd, so I won't throw you a gamesave deleting error message upon booting the game, because I can now see the DLC like normal''.
Papacheeks
Banned
I used it for 6 months straight. It's library is not even close as good as Xbox console gamepass. Not to mention how you have to use EA desktop app just to validate EA title installs on gamepass. On top of it's interface is still shit and installing games still uses the windows store.
It's still not great.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Honestly, I think there are waaaaaaaaaay too many indie games nowadays. I mean compared to the late 2000s/early 2010s, the indie games were actually exciting and not as abundant.
But that’s just my 2 cents.
But that’s just my 2 cents.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Who the fuck cares how it installs the game?
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