Yes the controls have never been good even when it was released. The problem is that they're still largely the same as MGS2 where it works because of the tighter level design and soliton radar. Still a great game once you get used to it but it would definitely benefit from a controls overhaul.
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Playing MGS3: Snake Eater right now... and it's kind of terrible
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
Controls are the only redeeming quality about it, everything was my disappointment of the gen so far
Risk Breaker
Member
Hahahah, what?
I played it last year again in anticipation for MGSV to get my gf into the series and I appreciated it even more than before.
It still plays excellently. Yes the camo system could be faster if the game was remade today, but the only thing I miss is crouch walking, and you get used to it.
I played it last year again in anticipation for MGSV to get my gf into the series and I appreciated it even more than before.
It still plays excellently. Yes the camo system could be faster if the game was remade today, but the only thing I miss is crouch walking, and you get used to it.
brandonh83
Banned
Controls are the only redeeming quality about it, everything was my disappointment of the gen so far
Controls/performance. It's a fun game. But some of us had become accustomed to getting more than just good gameplay from this series.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I agree. I forced myself through the horrible gameplay for the great story. The controls are clunky and the constant fiddling with menus every two minutes gets annoying really fast. For me it's definitely the worst mainline MGS in terms of gameplay. 1, 2 and 4 definitely held up A LOT better.
OP asked about Peace Walker, and I'd say the controls in that game are a lot better, and I even played it on a PSP
OP asked about Peace Walker, and I'd say the controls in that game are a lot better, and I even played it on a PSP
Blueingreen
Member
To all the people saying Mgs 3 doesn't play well, I'm just gonna leave this here.
https://youtu.be/Le23bsVURds
https://youtu.be/Le23bsVURds
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I replayed it after MGS V and I found it's best to just sort of try view it less as action infiltration and more view it as like a real time tactics game with a top-down camera. Even though the new third-person camera mode makes it control more easily -- by action standards -- it does a disservice to the game, highlighting the small maps and otherwise poor textures from other angles.
It's sort of like when you remove the draw distance fog in San Andreas... suddenly you realize how tiny the map actually is. The lack of view distance in GTA SA, or MGS3, actually sort of artificially add a sort of mystique or fog that help their atmospheres, their exploration. The entire reason why MGS3 or GTA SA were able to feel so big is because of those constraints, and it's quite good game design in terms of getting more 'mileage' out of a smaller game area.
So, I would probably recommend to anyone to stick with the classic camera... it takes a while to get used to, and you have to play it differently than a standard action game, but the game is much better for it. Its gameplay and map designed really are not designed for a standard third-person camera.
Other than that haha Snake Eater is probably my 3rd favorite game overall so it can do no wrong... And I've never particularly liked its combat.
I always found its controls crippling -- not bad or negative, but just constrained on purpose in a tactical sense. But in a weird way, the constraints the camera puts on you actually makes you feel more vulnerable, and that vulnerability - nakedness, even (snake pun intended) -- was always one of the strengths of the top-down games.
When you get in a vulnerable situation in a lot of standard-control, standard-camera games you can always power through... hide a few rooms back... somehow utilize advantages over aiming or enemy tacking and AI to survive. MGS though it says, OK you have superior AI... you can always outsmart the enemy, outshoot the enemy -- well we're going to even the field by stripping you of your line of sight -- give the the same line of sight as the AI.
It's a purposefully controlled and limited control to make you more vulnerable, and though that can be frustrating or even feel crippling, it makes for a more harrowing infiltration imo.
It's sort of like when you remove the draw distance fog in San Andreas... suddenly you realize how tiny the map actually is. The lack of view distance in GTA SA, or MGS3, actually sort of artificially add a sort of mystique or fog that help their atmospheres, their exploration. The entire reason why MGS3 or GTA SA were able to feel so big is because of those constraints, and it's quite good game design in terms of getting more 'mileage' out of a smaller game area.
So, I would probably recommend to anyone to stick with the classic camera... it takes a while to get used to, and you have to play it differently than a standard action game, but the game is much better for it. Its gameplay and map designed really are not designed for a standard third-person camera.
Other than that haha Snake Eater is probably my 3rd favorite game overall so it can do no wrong... And I've never particularly liked its combat.
I always found its controls crippling -- not bad or negative, but just constrained on purpose in a tactical sense. But in a weird way, the constraints the camera puts on you actually makes you feel more vulnerable, and that vulnerability - nakedness, even (snake pun intended) -- was always one of the strengths of the top-down games.
When you get in a vulnerable situation in a lot of standard-control, standard-camera games you can always power through... hide a few rooms back... somehow utilize advantages over aiming or enemy tacking and AI to survive. MGS though it says, OK you have superior AI... you can always outsmart the enemy, outshoot the enemy -- well we're going to even the field by stripping you of your line of sight -- give the the same line of sight as the AI.
It's a purposefully controlled and limited control to make you more vulnerable, and though that can be frustrating or even feel crippling, it makes for a more harrowing infiltration imo.
Already posted. You could have bothered to read the thread, it's not that long. Besides, there's always gonna be incredibly competent players in every game, regardless of how poorly it controls.
That's not how it works.
Just as an aside... every Metal Gear was voice directed by Kris Zimmerman in English. Every single mainline installment.
Also, most series überfans would argue shoehorning MGS2's first person aim into MGS1 (Twin Snakes) reduced the difficulty quotient to near-zero.
Yup.
Those "git good" arguments aren't worth anything. I played MGS2-5 a lot, yet this is the only one where the controls annoyed me.
broncobuster
Banned
Always confused by the crouch walk complaint in MGS3 threads. It's the RE4 move and shoot complaint. It's unnecessary. The game isn't balanced for it.
Blueingreen
Member
I must have skimmed past it, I was just trying to convey the skill ceiling in MGS3 I believe I read a comment saying the gameplay was half baked, nonetheless my mistake
Look at this horse shit.
Because EVA uppercutting Ocelot with a motorcycle is less absurd than Snake backflipping off a missile amirite
(No, I'm kidding, Twin Snakes' cutscenes were trash.)
enixbelmont
Member
I thought this topic was about the pre-subsistence version.
That game was way, way worse. Ran like shit, the camera made NO sense with the gameplay, etc.
I think people's opinions have been way more colored by rereleases which vastly improve the game in every way. I thought it was worst in the series as someone who got snake eater day 1 and it made me skip subsistence. Then I played the remaster and I finally got it.
That game was way, way worse. Ran like shit, the camera made NO sense with the gameplay, etc.
I think people's opinions have been way more colored by rereleases which vastly improve the game in every way. I thought it was worst in the series as someone who got snake eater day 1 and it made me skip subsistence. Then I played the remaster and I finally got it.
I'd understand complaints about the top-down perspective from the original Snake Eater release, but the standard third-person camera from Subsistence and every subsequent release works great besides the pressure-sensitive buttons. Even so, from before the end of the Virtuous Mission, I was headshotting like a champ.
The controls work in MGS3 because it's a stealth game first, action game second. Since MGSV is the opposite, comparisons between the two have little value.
The controls work in MGS3 because it's a stealth game first, action game second. Since MGSV is the opposite, comparisons between the two have little value.
I NEVER go back to loved games like this.
They rarely age very well and you're just gonna destroy fond memories.
MGS is one of my favorite series but boy will I stay the fuck away from them now.
In regard to MGS3: Keep in mind that people considered it slow and clunky even back in the day so yeah, not surprising you're having a tough time.
They rarely age very well and you're just gonna destroy fond memories.
MGS is one of my favorite series but boy will I stay the fuck away from them now.
In regard to MGS3: Keep in mind that people considered it slow and clunky even back in the day so yeah, not surprising you're having a tough time.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
MGS1,2,3 are all kinda goofy and nuanced in their absurd control schemes and game functions, but that's part of the fine; learning how these game systems operate, mastering them, and experimenting beyond to see how the game world and its many systems react to your behaviour.
In that respect I honestly feel MGS3 is a masterpiece. It's the most accomplished iteration of the MGS1,2,3 series of game systems wrapped in a huge campaign that strings you through an incredibly impressive variety of meticulously crafted setpieces and sequences. To me MGS3 and Resident Evil 4 are the two standing console gems of that era that really highlight the strengths of beautiful crafted AAA single player games.
MGSV absolutely plays better in control and responsiveness. It's a far more accommodating and sensible game in that respect. It adopts a lot more traditional (for good reason) means of interactivity, buffed by modern standards. But, as much as I like playing MGSV, I really feel one of its greatest flaws is that it doesn't have that puzzle-like game system experimentation and discovery that MGS1,2,3 so openly embrace.
In that respect I honestly feel MGS3 is a masterpiece. It's the most accomplished iteration of the MGS1,2,3 series of game systems wrapped in a huge campaign that strings you through an incredibly impressive variety of meticulously crafted setpieces and sequences. To me MGS3 and Resident Evil 4 are the two standing console gems of that era that really highlight the strengths of beautiful crafted AAA single player games.
MGSV absolutely plays better in control and responsiveness. It's a far more accommodating and sensible game in that respect. It adopts a lot more traditional (for good reason) means of interactivity, buffed by modern standards. But, as much as I like playing MGSV, I really feel one of its greatest flaws is that it doesn't have that puzzle-like game system experimentation and discovery that MGS1,2,3 so openly embrace.
Accurate.
Shadow Ranger
Member
Metal Gear Rising has some wonky camera work. Even Bloodborne has its moments. And FFXV is almost guaranteed to have issues so nah, I don't think shitty cameras are things of a day gone past at all.
WouldYouKindly
Banned
Indeed, MGS 1 is the Metal Gear game I replay the most and never get tired of it.
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Keep trying, you'll get use to it, for me it's the best before V
Do we need a new thread for boss's funeral?
I think esoteric is accurate for the series' pre-4 control schemes - though I don't remember 2 and 3 being anywhere near as obtuse as Twin Snakes; mainly because of the way the latter had to contort itself to fit the Gamecube controller. They weren't too much of an obstacle, but still not the most optimal.
Also, good timing:
Do we need a new thread for boss's funeral?
Of course.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I hated the controls and the gameplay, I didn't give a shit about the story and I care fuck all for Big Boss and the other characters. It's easily the worst of the bunch of MGS 1-4 for me.
I'm apparently one of those outliers that think the earlier games in the series, namely Snake Eater and especially Sons of Liberty, have an incredibly satisfying responsiveness and a generally good feedback to their gameplay. The controls are tight, even if getting a good handle on them can require more in terms of finger dexterity than many other games might, The Phantom Pain included. The items and weapons being tied to L2 and R2 respectively was a stroke of genius.
Good god first post nails it perfectly.
Peaking out the corner then holding you gun to a soldiers head was a nightmare.
MGS2 did feel good compared to 1 but didn't nearly reach the highs MGSV does. Everything in that game feels incredible, even tip toe'ing.
I need to go replay it.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Replayed it twice when Phantom Pain was announced, I fell in love with the game all over again and mainly for the gameplay. It takes a while to get used to, but once it all works in your favor it's fantastic, It's absolutely held up in my opinion.
I gotta say though, I've now replayed MGS3 4 times, once with the original, once with subsistence when it came out and now twice in the HD collection but man...the 3D subsistence camera really ruins a lot of the game in my opinion. Original the end fight versus Subsistence the end for example are COMPLETELY different. Reminds me of how easy the Ocelot battle is in Twin Snakes because the added FPS mechanics broke the game balance.
It took me over an hour to kill The End in 2004, every time since has taken about 10, the new camera angle just totally kills that fight. To a lesser extent it takes away from the final fight as well. It's very very easy to track where Boss ran off to, compared to not knowing where the hell she could have gone in the original.
I gotta say though, I've now replayed MGS3 4 times, once with the original, once with subsistence when it came out and now twice in the HD collection but man...the 3D subsistence camera really ruins a lot of the game in my opinion. Original the end fight versus Subsistence the end for example are COMPLETELY different. Reminds me of how easy the Ocelot battle is in Twin Snakes because the added FPS mechanics broke the game balance.
It took me over an hour to kill The End in 2004, every time since has taken about 10, the new camera angle just totally kills that fight. To a lesser extent it takes away from the final fight as well. It's very very easy to track where Boss ran off to, compared to not knowing where the hell she could have gone in the original.
This is going to sound insane, but there's a way around the awkwardness of the crawling animations:
When crawling with the third person camera, the Snake model is always checking collision with everything around him all along the length of his body. Trying to rotate Snake around in a tight spot will often cause issues because his feet or length of his body will collide with objects around him and the game will keep trying to streamline the animation so he doesn't just pinion spin on the spot.
HOWEVER
When in first person mode, the actual collision volume for Snake is a single point near his head. You can be locked in a tube, unable to turn around in 3rd person, but just pop into first person, spin the camera around, come out in 3rd person and he will have magically become facing the other way.
Interestingly enough, you can actually use this to hide from some guards, as when you are in 3rd person, your feet can be sticking out of a corner and a guard can see you. If you pop into first person, your feet disappear (as your only collision volume in first person is your head) and they can't see you.
So in summary: when needing to turn or, especially, turn around while crawling, going into first person, spin around then come out of first person.
FUN FACT:
In MGS5, the camera position when going from 3rd person to first person is actually the center of Snakes body, around the hips. This creates idiotic situations where you can have Snake's head over the ledge while crawling on the roof and then go into first person and you will be a foot back from the edge. Additionally, if the roof edge has a raised lip, you can position Snake's head over the lip, go into first person, and the lip will be blocking your view. Irritating as hell.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
MGS3 is probably the best game of all time.
OP, your experience is wrong.
OP, your experience is wrong.
I own the HD collection on 360. They do weird button combos for every pressure-sensitive action
I honestly can't tell if this is a joke post. I really hope it is, cause, damn, what a conceited thing to say.
I replayed MGS2 an MGS3 last year and had some real trouble with MGS2 at first, even without playing MGSV beforehand. The controls have not aged well and are really clunky and convoluted by today's standards. By the time I got to MGS3 though, it wasn't really a problem anymore.
The thing is, you have to adapt your playstyle to these controls. You can't just try and play the games like you would play MGSV, or any other modern action/stealth game for that matter. It's much more methodical, with a slower pace. If you play it like that, it will start to click eventually and from there you will get better at it.
The thing is, you have to adapt your playstyle to these controls. You can't just try and play the games like you would play MGSV, or any other modern action/stealth game for that matter. It's much more methodical, with a slower pace. If you play it like that, it will start to click eventually and from there you will get better at it.
Monocle
Member
I'll be honest. I preordered the game and then ran into the exact same problem. I'm ashamed to say I haven't even finished it.
Ground Zeroes feels so intuitive in comparison. The controls actually make sense, and there's impact and feedback for each action.
I just can't seem to get into games with weird or touchy controls.
Ground Zeroes feels so intuitive in comparison. The controls actually make sense, and there's impact and feedback for each action.
I just can't seem to get into games with weird or touchy controls.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Snake Eater was the last MGS I had a proper attempt at playing, having already tried and failed with 1 and 2. I always found the gameplay frustratingly cumbersome and unintuitive. It's probably the main reason I gave up on the series.
I actually had a hard time believing it when everyone started praising TPP's gameplay as highly as they did. Now I kind of want to give it a go and see for myself.
I actually had a hard time believing it when everyone started praising TPP's gameplay as highly as they did. Now I kind of want to give it a go and see for myself.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Got the game on my vita played it and finished it in 3 sittings.
Controls seemed fine.. story was amazing
Bought mgs5 day 1 played till mission 14 never touched it again.
Every damn mission felt the same.
Oh well...
Controls seemed fine.. story was amazing
relationship with mom, intro and all the cast
Bought mgs5 day 1 played till mission 14 never touched it again.
Every damn mission felt the same.
Oh well...
Well, as I just mentioned, I replayed MGS2 an 3 last year and had real trouble with the controls initially. About half a year later I played through Ground Zeroes and then started MGSV and it's a complete revelation compared to the older titles. It feels way more intuitive and natural and there's no clunkiness involved. It clicks within minutes of play.
Monocle
Member
Yeah, this is exactly my experience.
This is probably heresy, but I kind of wish I could experience the whole MGS series with GZ/MGSV's controls. I just know I'd appreciate the games so much more if they felt intuitive to play.
marcbret87
Member
Haven't played 3 in a while,but I can imagine how the controls for Snaker Eater would feel aged after playing V.
Given the open spaces, I definitely think that game would greatly benefit from a re-make using the same engine as used for The Phantom Pain.
Given the open spaces, I definitely think that game would greatly benefit from a re-make using the same engine as used for The Phantom Pain.
Sanctuary
Member
And some of us were wondering if there would ever be another Metal Gear game that relied on gameplay, instead of ten hours worth of cutscenes.
I agree with the bolded, but would add Metroid Prime, Ninja Gaiden Black, Zelda TP (if you want to classify it as a GC game) and maybe a couple more if I spent a little time thinking about it.
But yeah, MGS is a great game in every respect, definitely in my top 5 of that generation. The controls are quirky, but they work very well within the context of that game. It's such a well crafted experience overall. It totally blew my mind back in the day.
I messed with it again not long ago, and came away feeling like I definitely want to do another play-through some time in the near future. In some respects the gameplay hasn't aged that well, but it still works just fine within the context of the challenges the game puts in front of you.