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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)

Right before the Neo's unveil, how do you feel about the system?


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Oct 30, 2011
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There is no way Neo will be $499. My guess is the slim will be $299 and Neo will be $449.
Agreed.

I think they may have thought about doing a smaller Neo @ 399, but decided to make it more powerful for $449. The simple matter is that a $100 difference isn't a large enough delta, but I'd say $150 is.

Microsoft at E3 revealed they were going the expensive route with Scorpio, so there's not too much risk doing the same.
 

funkystudent

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Agreed.

I think they may have thought about doing a smaller Neo @ 399, but decided to make it more powerful for $449. The simple matter is that a $100 difference isn't a large enough delta, but I'd say $150 is.

Microsoft at E3 revealed they were going the expensive route with Scorpio, so there's not too much risk doing the same.
I wouldnt say MS is going expensive. I think next year they can pull of 6tf next year for $399.

But by then the NEO will be 350 or lower.


I also think NEO launches at 399 and the PS4 Slim is sub 300. Maybe 250 if they REALLY want to go nuts but 299 would be my bet.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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I wouldnt say MS is going expensive. I think next year they can pull of 6tf next year for $399.

But by then the NEO will be 350 or lower.


I also think NEO launches at 399 and the PS4 Slim is sub 300. Maybe 250 if they REALLY want to go nuts but 299 would be my bet.
I guess we'll have to see. I don't see Sony going below $299 (exception being Holiday deals) for the Slim. I also don't see the pricing difference being $99. Seems far too small.

I don't think Scorpio will be a 6 TF GPU + New CPU (Zen) + additional RAM/bandwidth for $399 or less next year. I'd be very surprised.
 

Primethius

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Slightly OT: I personally think the price for the PS4 Slim will be $299. And that's why I think MS were really smart with the XB1 S pricing and feature inclusion.

It's a pretty safe wager for MS. Include features like UHD and 4K with their Slim which invariably boosts the base price up knowing that Sony, being in the commanding position they are (OG PS4 is $349 3 years in) won't set the slim price too low despite having none of these features. $299 as a safe bet and $249 at the lowest is probably what MS thought.

This allows them to be price competitive while having a couple of features to tout marketing wise, mitigating what would otherwise be a continued slaughter in sales (NA of course, WW they are screwed anyways).
 

thelastword

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Apr 7, 2006
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Do you remember the PS3 announcement? They won't go there again, so there's no way it'll be more than $499.

I don't see why it can't be $399.

Because the original PS4 was premium at launch, wasn't it? What's so hard to understand?
We've never had such a recent GPU in a console box have we. The polaris RX 480 just launched and we don't know what they've settled on CPU wise or have knowledge of the entire chipset and features of the system. I don't think NEO is scheduled to meet mass market expectations so early, that's what the slim is for.

The 7850/70 that the PS4's GPU is based on was released in March of 2012 and the PS4 was released in November 2013, so that's one year and 8 months after. RX 480 launched on June 29th, so if NEO releases in October this year, it will be roughly 3 months 2 weeks since the 480 GPU was on shelves, so yes, that changes the dynamic as it relates to price....Hell, even if NEO releases in March of next year (2017), polaris 10 would have been on shelves for only 9 months, that's still much sooner than the divide in time from PS4's GPU.

That was only GPU though, if Sony decides to go with a better CPU, then it's not even a debate and they might be operating at a loss at $500.00 if that is the case.

Not sure I understand this.
Why would Neo be higher priced when PS4 will be getting dropped in price?
The Slim is for the mass market this holiday, the NEO if it debuts will not be.
 

BRSxIgnition

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Sep 12, 2014
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I wouldn't think this would be the case because the original PS4 was intended to be marketed to everyone and accessible for everyone @ $400. Sony is now segmenting their market - the slim is intended to fill the role of the original PS4 and be something that everyone can get, meanwhile the Neo is designed as the high-end experience... which will probably come with a high-end price tag. It's not for everyone and they don't expect it to be the bulk of their sales.

PS4 = Profitable from day one, affordable for most people = $399.99
PS3 = high-end machine for it's day = $599.99

The problem with the PS3 was that even though it was a high-end experience, many people just wanted to play games and weren't comfortable with the high price tag. There was a cheaper $499.99 model with a smaller hard drive (20gb) and no chrome accents but that was still considered kinda pricey at the time.
I still think that $499 would be pushing it, and I also believe that the base model will get a price cut as well.

Knowing this, I think the Slim and NEO will be $259-299 and $459 USD respectively. (Max)

A base, even more affordable model, and an advanced, premium, higher-end model for $150-200 more; Both available by the end of October, like many here have predicted.
 

onQ123

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Bound for PSVR will render at 2688 x 1512 on the PS4 I know it has simple graphics but it look amazing & that's over half of 4K resolution running on PS4 at 60FPS on a nice looking game.


Ya'll still don't think it's possible for Neo to run good looking 4K games?
 

ganaconda

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Jul 16, 2007
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I still don't understand that comment.
Are we talking about the uncompressed pixel comment? Definitely not a standard phrasing that I've heard, but I would assume what was meant there was HDR (10 or 12 bit pixels) versus the 8 bit pixels that you get with SDR, i.e. everything prior to displays that support HDR. More color depth, brighter brights, darker darks, etc.

I guess as a tech guy I didn't find the comment that confusing, but I definitely could see how the average consumer would.
 

Lady Gaia

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Compress vertex code into FP16 instead of FP32 then fit 2 FP16 into FP32 then decompress the vertex code when you're doing the pixel shading.
You really are trying to become the next Jeff Rigby, aren't you? Throw around a bunch of terms you half understand in the hopes that it will turn out to be a brilliant insight?

Taking code written for single-precision floating point math and converting arbitrary values to half-precision is a disasterously lossy proposition that would dramatically compromise rendering quality all over the place. Do you understand how horribly limited the range and precision you're talking about is? Developers are explicit about when they're manipulating single-, double-, and half-precision values for very good reasons.

The recently uncovered patent is an interesting peek at a technique likely intended to reduce bandwidth contention in getting vertex shader results to fragment shaders. Packing two 16-but values in a single 32-bit word doesn't involve format conversion or loss of precision, it's just a basic packing operation. Chances are it's being performed here to allow random access to memory to be efficiently cached without the usual cache line assumptions about access patterns.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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Do you remember the PS3 announcement? They won't go there again, so there's no way it'll be more than $499.

I don't see why it can't be $399.

Because the original PS4 was premium at launch, wasn't it? What's so hard to understand?
No the PS4 was not a premium model at launch. It as the ONLY model. With a budget PS4 Slim I think they can be a bit more flexible in pricing. Not $599 again, but they should not feel obligated to not go above $399 either. If someone doesn't want to pay more than $399 then buy a Slim or keep your current PS4.

Also LOL at anyone that believes Scorpio will be $399 with the supposed latest AMD GPU and CPU technology. Something has to give there. Both companies are calling these upgrades "premium" for a reason. Premiums don't come cheap.
 

SolidSnakex

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Here's who House said the Neo is targeted at

The new console, which is codenamed “Neo”, will target hardcore gamers, he said, as well as consumers with a 4K television set looking for more high-resolution content.
That's the same market that they sold the PS4 to (obviously aside from the 4K user). That hardcore gamer is willing to jump in day one for a new console and then upgrade that console. But Sony's also seen that there's a "ceiling" that those gamers find acceptable as far as pricing goes. They saw it when they launched the PS3 and they saw it when MS launched the Xbox One. So with that in mind, why would Sony want to push against that ceiling again?
 

wbEMX

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Apr 7, 2014
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Has there been any word if they are only talking about consoles? I wonder if they would talk about additional unannounced game titles which could serve as potential killer apps for the Neo.
 

AmyS

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Aug 22, 2012
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There is no way Neo will be $499. My guess is the slim will be $299 and Neo will be $449.

Yeah, I would be okay with those prices.
$449 Neo / $299 Slim would still be a good mix. Neo being a comfortable $150 more than Slim, and also $50 more than PS4's original launch price, enough to be a premium, high-end PS4, without being overly expensive.
 

Iacobellis

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Jun 25, 2012
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Has there been any word if they are only talking about consoles? I wonder if they would talk about additional unannounced game titles which could serve as potential killer apps for the Neo.
I have a feeling the PlayStation Meeting will be a blowout for the Neo, with PSX being more focused on game announcements.
 

Tagyhag

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Aug 21, 2013
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Bound for PSVR will render at 2688 x 1512 on the PS4 I know it has simple graphics but it look amazing & that's over half of 4K resolution running on PS4 at 60FPS on a nice looking game.


Ya'll still don't think it's possible for Neo to run good looking 4K games?
It depends what you mean by "good looking".

Something like Journey? Sure.

Uncharted 4? No.
 

onQ123

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You really are trying to become the next Jeff Rigby, aren't you? Throw around a bunch of terms you half understand in the hopes that it will turn out to be a brilliant insight?

Taking code written for single-precision floating point math and converting arbitrary values to half-precision is a disasterously lossy proposition that would dramatically compromise rendering quality all over the place. Do you understand how horribly limited the range and precision you're talking about is? Developers are explicit about when they're manipulating single-, double-, and half-precision values for very good reasons.

The recently uncovered patent is an interesting peek at a technique likely intended to reduce bandwidth contention in getting vertex shader results to fragment shaders. Packing two 16-but values in a single 32-bit word doesn't involve format conversion or loss of precision, it's just a basic packing operation. Chances are it's being performed here to allow random access to memory to be efficiently cached without the usual cache line assumptions about access patterns.

Read the patent
 

Pennywise

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Jun 20, 2009
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Has there been any word if they are only talking about consoles? I wonder if they would talk about additional unannounced game titles which could serve as potential killer apps for the Neo.
Of course games will be part of it, but you can be sure that they won't overload it as the focus in on the console first and foremost.
Tech demos, some already released games with a NEO mode, and one or two announcements. Plus maybe a few NEO trailers for already announced games.

My own prediction is :
Uncharted 4, Killzone or Infamous and some popular 3rd party franchise like CoD or Destiny for the older titles with a NEO mode.
Deep Down, Horizon, God of War as part of the announced but not released titles.
Not sure about the games that could be announced alongside the NEO.

Rumors about RDR3 are there, but it could easily overshadow the NEO. On the other hand, it would create an insane amount of attention.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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Here's who House said the Neo is targeted at



That's the same market that they sold the PS4 to (obviously aside from the 4K user). That hardcore gamer is willing to jump in day one for a new console and then upgrade that console. But Sony's also seen that there's a "ceiling" that those gamers find acceptable as far as pricing goes. They saw it when they launched the PS3 and they saw it when MS launched the Xbox One. So with that in mind, why would Sony want to push against that ceiling again?
We don't know that the ceiling is $399. It could have been priced at $449 and still sold extremely well. There is huge gulf between $399 and $599. No console manufacturer has ever really attempted this so we really don't how consumers will react to this new model. And we don't know how many Neo units Sony projects to sell. We know 20 million sold is goal for the year, but I believe the Slim will be the main driving force to hit that number, especially at number like $250. Would not surprise me if Neo projection was 5 million or less.
 
Sep 27, 2005
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Has there been any word if they are only talking about consoles? I wonder if they would talk about additional unannounced game titles which could serve as potential killer apps for the Neo.
Sony was rumored to have been waiting for quality Neo footage awhile back, we will likely see things like BF1 and Horizon footage.

Obviously no Neo exclusive games, but Neo is rumored to have some cool feature(s) that hasn't leaked yet.
 

SolidSnakex

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We don't know that the ceiling is $399. It could have been priced at $449 and still sold extremely well. There is huge gulf between $399 and $599. No console manufacturer has ever really attempted this so we really don't how consumers will react to this new model. And we don't know how many Neo units Sony projects to sell. We know 20 million sold is goal for the year, but I believe the Slim will be the main driving force to hit that number, especially at number like $250. Would not surprise me if Neo projection was 5 million or less.
They know $400 works. Now they may be able to go a bit higher, but this time around they don't have another console to directly compare it to in order to make their pricepoint look better. So why push into the unknown when they're already trying to get gamers to buy into something that hasn't been done in console gaming before?

House did say that they want the Neo to help them hit their 20m target. So while they may expect the slim to pull most of the weight, I don't think they want the Neo to be some sort of slow burner.
 

Primethius

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They know $400 works. Now they may be able to go a bit higher, but this time around they don't have another console to directly compare it to in order to make their pricepoint look better. So why push into the unknown when they're already trying to get gamers to buy into something that hasn't been done in console gaming before?

House did say that they want the Neo to help them hit their 20m target. So while they may expect the slim to pull most of the weight, I don't think they want the Neo to be some sort of slow burner.
If we go by how much PS4 is up YoY just so far and assuming Sony lands at the 20 million target, the Neo will sell about 1 to 1.5 million by March 2017.

Just think about what a tough task Scorpio has if those are the launch Neo numbers.
 

jeff_rigby

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You really are trying to become the next Jeff Rigby, aren't you? Throw around a bunch of terms you half understand in the hopes that it will turn out to be a brilliant insight?

Taking code written for single-precision floating point math and converting arbitrary values to half-precision is a disasterously lossy proposition that would dramatically compromise rendering quality all over the place. Do you understand how horribly limited the range and precision you're talking about is? Developers are explicit about when they're manipulating single-, double-, and half-precision values for very good reasons.

The recently uncovered patent is an interesting peek at a technique likely intended to reduce bandwidth contention in getting vertex shader results to fragment shaders. Packing two 16-but values in a single 32-bit word doesn't involve format conversion or loss of precision, it's just a basic packing operation. Chances are it's being performed here to allow random access to memory to be efficiently cached without the usual cache line assumptions about access patterns.
He did almost quote part of the patent in it's entirety so how wrong can he be? This is not something that I'm up on. It appears to be more than "Packing two 16-but values in a single 32-bit word".

This is what you innately understand

By way of example, and not by way of limitation, where the parameter values are stored as 32-bit floating point attribute variables, it may not be possible to compress the parameter into 16-bit numbers for storage into one 32-bit value without losing the original data as a result of the 32-bit subtraction.
The compression scheme is not just packing two 16 bit values into a single 32 bit word.

In the technique 200b depicted in FIG. 2B, the vertex shader 210 may perform vertex shader computations 214, which may include manipulating various parameters of each vertices in the image. The resulting parameters may be compressed at 240 into a smaller data format so that bottlenecks associated with storage and throughput of large numbers may be minimized. The compressed parameters P0', P1', P2' may be written to a parameter cache 236 for temporary storage, and may occupy a smaller amount of the total cache than uncompressed parameters to thereby minimize potential bottlenecks in the cache hardware. The compressed parameters P0', P1', P2' may be copied to a local memory unit 237 on a GPU, which may be memory unit known as a "local data share" (LDS). The compressed parameter values may be accessed from the local data share with a pixel shader 212 implemented by a GPU.
a compression scheme according to various aspects of the present disclosure that allows for the original parameter values to be preserved and decompressed so that they may be accessed by the pixel shader. In the illustrated implementation, parameter interpolation hardware that traditionally performs the subtraction or entire interpolation may be omitted, disabled, or bypassed so that the parameter values may be compressed and decompressed without losing the original parameter values.
 

DavidDesu

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Sony was rumored to have been waiting for quality Neo footage awhile back, we will likely see things like BF1 and Horizon footage.

Obviously no Neo exclusive games, but Neo is rumored to have some cool feature(s) that hasn't leaked yet.
I'm just wondering, how much do you think it costs now for the PS1, PS2 and PS3 "chips"? You know like what the PS3 had to run PS1 and 2 games, before they released a cheaper console minus the PS2 element... If there's one thing it would be cool to implement, although far from a dealbreaker for most, surely it would be full backwards compatibility, effectively a true "PlayStation" console that literally can play any and every game... I don't think it will happen personally BUT if it was something they wanted to do then this Premium PS4 would be their ideal opportunity. Adds to the value proposition further justifying the higher pricetag and appeals to the hardcore gamer who does value the ability to play all the older games they wanted. Imagine that announcement... HYPE :p
 

vivftp

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I start my new job the same day as this event an I'm DAMN bitter over that. Chances are I get home 2-3 hours after the event starts... I wonder if I would be able to find a stream of the event to enjoy it before I run into any spoilers.
 

Rotch Crot

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They have to take a shot at MS's pixel comment in their conference. They have to. Cmon Sony.

I always imagine users like this as seeing a small window and then going overboard with it.

Just because the floor is dirty doesn't mean you can take a shit on the floor.
 

Lockjaw333

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Jul 29, 2014
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Neo has to be $399. No way they go $449. Part of the reasom why the slim helps them is that they can make a clear differentiation between the two in pricing.

Neo $399

Slim $249
 

Da_Bears

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Oct 27, 2013
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The Slim is for the mass market this holiday, the NEO if it debuts will not be.
Agree with this, but when the PS4 was launched, it was the premium console. Against even the competition and still came in at 399. Now with the slim being 299 or less, the Neo would be premium priced at 399. Still have your mass market sku and still be able to get launch pricing on a premium sku. At least this is how I hope it works out.
 

cooldawn

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PS4 Slim reduced in price to normal PS4.

PS4 Neo same price as current PS4.

Demon Souls remake debut.

Any games announced for this year i.e. Battlefield 1, and shown at this meeting means PS4 Neo out this year in time for said games.

Possible.
 

Lockjaw333

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Jul 29, 2014
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This is my bet as well. Makes perfect sense.
I really don't think they would cross the $399 US threshold again. It just seems to be the sweet spot in terms of what customers are willing to pay for a new console. Als the optics of a $449 price point just seem slightly high considering its well known that they sold PS4 at a profit at $399.

Its been 3 years, and the specs in the Neo are not groundbreaking, expensive numbers in 2016. The Neo will be $399, it has to be.

The more questionable price to me is the slim. $249 makes sense. A $299 price point and I think its just too close to the Neo. A $150 price difference makes more sense.

I also think both are releasing this year. Nothing to go by there other than it just feels right. An early 2017 release feels too late / too close to scorpio. Savvy buyers will just wait the extra 6 months to get a much more powerful console.

Slim on sale Sep 7th at $249

Neo on sale November at $399, preorders starting Sep 7th after the conference.

Do it Sony.
 

Theonik

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Aug 14, 2010
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Sony's account activation is bullshit. It has been causing me some serious frustration lately.
I find it really annoying how much Sony has regressed in terms of online since the PS3 launch. 5 equal concurrent activations for PSN content was really fair later reduced to 3. Then you have the PS4 nonsense which is just bad if you travel and keep multiple systems which was why I subscribed to PS+ in the first place. The loss of free online play was also painful though as mentioned I was already on PS+ by then.
 

Rotch Crot

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For events like this, are there any good text feeds of exactly what's going on?

Blogs something?

I'm temporarily in a place where the Internet is just way, way too slow to stream.
 

Theonik

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For events like this, are there any good text feeds of exactly what's going on?

Blogs something?

I'm temporarily in a place where the Internet is just way, way too slow to stream.
Due to it clashing with Apple's event I don't think many mainstream press will actually cover it and provide a text feed, but twitter is a good place for that if you can find a gaming site you know will be there. They will likely tweet highlights as it happens. There will also probably be a GAF conference thread you could use provided the site doesn't crash.
 

Rotch Crot

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I find it really annoying how much Sony has regressed in terms of online since the PS3 launch. 5 equal concurrent activations for PSN content was really fair later reduced to 3. Then you have the PS4 nonsense which is just bad if you travel and keep multiple systems which was why I subscribed to PS+ in the first place. The loss of free online play was also painful though as mentioned I was already on PS+ by then.
I'm overseas for fora few months and decided to bring my ps4 for the downtime. The Internet is excruciatingly slow. But I guess when I upgraded my hard drive a while back, I didn't deactivate my ps4 before the upgrade (because I didn't know any better).

So I get over here and have 0 access to any of my games. All locked because this isn't my activated primary console. Even games I brought physical copies of were useless because I had DLC for them.
Eventually I got the ps4 to start working with the awful Internet just to sign in to allow my games to work.

I tried deactivating my "old" ps4 (pre-hard drive switch) to my "new" ps4 and Sony wouldn't allow it. I was getting errors about having already used a deactivation. I emailed Sony the request for a deactivation and got an email back saying it was denied.

The first month here my ps4 was a paperweight. Now I can sign in to allow access to my games.
But when the Internet goes down, as it frequently does here, it becomes useless again.
 
Mar 15, 2014
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For events like this, are there any good text feeds of exactly what's going on?

Blogs something?

I'm temporarily in a place where the Internet is just way, way too slow to stream.
Several of the big gaming sites will probably have live updating coverage. I normally go with Eurogamer.
 
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