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[royalan]

Are you really comparing the bumps and bruises of getting arrested to getting a hose of pepper spray in your throat?

Not to mention these kids aren't exactly fighting back. It wouldn't exactly be difficult business. The cops don't want to do it because it would be messy and a ton of paperwork that they'd have to deal with. This way is just so much easier.

You damn right I am. As someone who's been tackled onto concrete before I can tell you that shit isn't slight.

And the kids were fighting back, or did you miss that part in the earlier videos where the kids were linking arms and snatching them back when the cops grabbed for them?

 

[Zabka]

And being pinned to the concrete, arms forced behind your back, and bound by skin-tight metallic handcuffs doesn't hurt?

Are you also saying that the temporary sting of pepper spray is worse than an arrest that will be on your record for years?

They were pepper sprayed AND arrested, so yes. I don't think a lot of people here understand how powerful pepper spray is. Maybe from watching too many movies where super badasses spray it on their chicken dinners.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

This kind of manufactured controversy really gets to me. It's that cry for attention, for addition talking points, that comes off as so damn low to me.

The policemen aren't giving us talking points by simply arresting people and leaving? Let's force them into a situation where they're cornered and have to resort to forceful measures.

It's not good enough. The police aren't without fault here, but damn, we shouldn't pat these protestors on the back either. I mean, seriously, "don't shoot students?" "Don't shoot your children?" Where do they get off? Fuck that.

 

[nib95]

So why was it illegal for them to sit around and peacefully protest? Maybe they should have fought back aggressively too. You know in other countries when Police and Government steps out of line the people get serious. They riot and fuck shit up and that's how you really send a clear message. Maybe you American's and your passive tactics against brutal aggressors need to switch up to their level. Because you get treated as though you were violent back either way.

Also, did the principle resign or get removed yet? How about the professor(s) that wrote that damning letter to him? He needs to burn for this.

And the kids were fighting back, or did you miss that part in the earlier videos where the kids were linking arms and snatching them back when the cops grabbed for them?

Holy shit lol. Might as well spoon feed through a law that lets Police beat you down without a reason. Or maybe have it so a flinch constitutes as aggression or fighting back too.

 

[thezerofire]

You damn right I am. As someone who's been tackled onto concrete before I can tell you that shit isn't slight.

And the kids were fighting back, or did you miss that part in the earlier videos where the kids were linking arms and snatching them back when the cops grabbed for them?

lol at thinking that linking arms and avoiding grabs equals fighting. Have you been in a fight before?

 

[ClassyPenguin]

I guess it's people thinking we're back in the Sixties and earlier.

 

[Fusebox]

And the kids were fighting back, or did you miss that part in the earlier videos where the kids were linking arms and snatching them back when the cops grabbed for them?

You and I have different views of what constitutes fighting.

 

[KHarvey16]

It spreads out over distance. That's the whole point of it having a designated range. It's more concentrated if you use it at point blank range. It's not some super-soaker that keeps the same stream of water over range, it's a cone.

Concentrated? That doesn't make any sense. The liquid doesn't separate into its component parts. The liquid is the same at 2 feet as it is at 20 feet. You are not making any sense here.

 

[royalan]

lol at thinking that linking arms and avoiding grabs equals fighting. Have you been in a fight before?

I have been in a fight before. You however, clearly don't understand what a cop is legally allowed to consider resistence. Here's a clue: they don't have to wait until you're actually throwing blows in their direction.

 

[Freakinchair]

Well, this changes things.

Another reminder not to use social media as a source of information.

Those students are morons. Nothing like chanting "Fuck the police" and obstructing justice to get your point across! Pepper spray was the best course of action in this situation imo. Trying to displace them all physically could potentially put the police and the students in a much worse situation.

Kids should've all gone to jail though, they're pretty lucky they didn't.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

So why was it illegal for them to sit around and peacefully protest? Maybe they should have fought back aggressively too. You know in other countries when Police and Government steps out of line the people get serious. They riot and fuck shit up and that's how you really send a clear message. Maybe you American's and your passive tactics against brutal aggressors need to switch up to their level. Because you get treated as though you were violent back either way.

Also, did the principle resign or get removed yet? How about the professor(s) that wrote that damning letter to him? He needs to burn for this.

I'd just like to quote this so that it exists on the Internet forever, the viewpoint of Nib95.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Cough up blood? You know they don't force the can down their throats, right?

“When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. … One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed … was still coughing up blood. … I write to you … to demand your immediate resignation.”

"I had my eyes closed," he says. "My arm was around my girlfriend. I kissed her on the forehead, and then all hell broke loose. My entire body was eventually covered in pepper spray. My entire body. I was coughing up blood. I was puking."

You could at least have read a few of the articles. My point isn't that the protestors aren't idiots (the video shows that they probably are), but that police violence for the purposes of control is not an acceptable procedure in this society.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

So why was it illegal for them to sit around and peacefully protest? Maybe they should have fought back aggressively too. You know in other countries when Police and Government steps out of line the people get serious. They riot and fuck shit up and that's how you really send a clear message. Maybe you American's and your passive tactics against brutal aggressors need to switch up to their level. Because you get treated as though you were violent back either way.
.

That would've ended a lot worse. I mean, rubber bullets, tear gas, tazers, water cannons, the whole shebang. In the end, it would work against the protesters.

 

[thezerofire]

Concentrated? That doesn't make any sense. The liquid doesn't separate into its component parts. The liquid is the same at 2 feet as it is at 20 feet. You are not making any sense here.

I don't think you understand aerosol sprays. Have you used spray paint? When you spray at right next to what you're painting, you get a little dot. When you back up, that dot enlarges. It's because the aerosol particles are spreading out in the air. That's what's happening here. Except the particles don't have any time to spread out, since they directly hit the students' faces.

I have been in a fight before. You however, clearly don't understand what a cop is legally allowed to consider resistence. Here's a clue: they don't have to wait until you're actually throwing blows in their direction.

that's clearly part of the problem. When you are allowed to redefine violence to fit an agenda, there is something wrong.

 

[nib95]

I'd just like to quote this so that it exists on the Internet forever, the viewpoint of Nib95.

You're British aren't you? Lets be honest Rez, if this happened in the UK the Police would be fucked or at least come under serious heavy fire or scrutiny, maybe even crowd reaction. In-fact, it wouldn't happen at all in the UK because Police usually know not to take the piss with extreme measures of unfair or disproportionate brutality against noble or peaceful causes such as this. I think countries like the UK, France and much of Europe have a decent balance. Both sides have power and Police fear the might of the people despite people having more of a fear of Police. And that's how it should be.

In the US it seems somewhere along the line things got lost in translation and the Police have ultimate power. Possibly why you see so many examples of undue Police brutality all the time. Constantly.

That would've ended a lot worse. I mean, rubber bullets, tear gas, tazers, water cannons, the whole shebang. In the end, it would work against the protesters.

Course it would. But it sends a wider message. It sends the message that no this is not acceptable and no the people as a whole will not stand for it. Same as it did all over with the Arab Spring, in the UK, France, the Flotilla's etc.

 

[RyanDG]

The new video really does turn things a bit.

When I first saw the initial clips, I was disgusted with the action that was taken, but now I'm just simply disgusted at the outrage that the students and some of the professors of the university are now showing the police and the actions that occurred.

Obstructing an officer from making a valid arrest and threatening the officer that they will not be allowed to leave if their 'friends' aren't let go is no longer civil disobedience and is no longer a valid form of protest. Period. There is a reason why most proponents of civil disobedience understand that if you are going to be arrested, you should accept that arrest. Because to not accept the arrest and the consequences of your civil disobedience, you are not only escalating the situation, but you also begin to lose the moral high ground that civil disobedience needs to have in order to be successful.

Did the officers handle this the best way possible? That's definitely a debate to have. But I don't think that there are any questions remaining that the protesters culpability in the actions that occurred is a lot higher than what was previously reported.

 

[KHarvey16]

You could at least have read a few of the articles. My point isn't that the protestors aren't idiots (the video shows that they probably are), but that police violence for the purposes of control is not an acceptable procedure in this society.

Why would we just take their word? There has been a lot of exaggeration and inaccuracies coming out of this situation. Coughing up blood is not a side effect of pepper spray. Not to say it's impossible, but it is very unlikely.

I don't think you understand aerosol sprays. Have you used spray paint? When you spray at right next to what you're painting, you get a little dot. When you back up, that dot enlarges. It's because the aerosol particles are spreading out in the air. That's what's happening here. Except the particles don't have any time to spread out, since they directly hit the students' faces.

The PURPOSE of pepper spray is for it to hit the face, get in the eyes and the mouth and cause intense irritation. It becomes aerosolized and inhaled. THAT IS THE IDEA. This will occur whether it is sprayed from 2 feet or 20. Spraying from further away doesn't change anything! Whether I get a dot or a drippy splotch, to use your paint analogy, the chemical is still ingested and gets into the eyes. You are reaching and failing.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Those students are morons. Nothing like chanting "Fuck the police" and obstructing justice to get your point across! Pepper spray was the best course of action in this situation imo. Trying to displace them all physically could potentially put the police and the students in a much worse situation.

Kids should've all gone to jail though, they're pretty lucky they didn't.

Yes, the police officers benevolence and generosity is truly the news story here.

"Christmas is coming early this year, kids, here's your present."

 

[Zabka]

It's ok to hurt people as long as you don't leave a mark seems to be an acceptable line of thought for some people.

 

[royalan]

that's clearly part of the problem. When you are allowed to redefine violence to fit an agenda, there is something wrong.

Some would argue that that is exact what you're doing. The police have a legal definition of what they are to consider violence or resistence that doesn't change very often.

And imagine how much more dangerous their jobs would be if they had to wait until they were being actively attacked before legally being allowed to use force. Man, people really have zero respect for how potentially dangerous the average day is for a cop.

Cops are trained, hell mandated, to stay in control of a situation at all times. That means that if you resist them without cause, they are legally allowed to apply force.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Why would we just take their word? There has been a lot of exaggeration and inaccuracies coming out of this situation. Coughing up blood is not a side effect of pepper spray. Not to say it's impossible, but it is very unlikely.



The PURPOSE of pepper spray is for it to hit the face, get in the eyes and the mouth and cause intense irritation. It becomes aerosolized and inhaled. THAT IS THE IDEA. This will occur whether it is sprayed from 2 feet or 20. Spraying from further away doesn't change anything! Whether I get a dot or a drippy splotch, to use your paint analogy, the chemical is still ingested and gets into the eyes. You are reaching and failing.

If you'd like to discount several eye witness accounts rather than, I don't know, your gut I guess, then that's certainly your right.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Course it would. But it sends a wider message. Same as it did all over with the Arab Spring, in the UK, France, the Flotilla's etc.

This situation is very unlike the others. Also, the UK riots was a mess not even worth defending.

Also, it seems like LA is learning how to deal with this a lot better than it did before.

 

[KHarvey16]

It's ok to hurt people as long as you don't leave a mark seems to be an acceptable line of thought for some people.

Physical confrontations are dangerous. I cannot fathom why anyone would suggest that option is preferable. The ignorance is astounding.

 

[RyanDG]

If you'd like to discount several eye witness accounts rather than, I don't know, your gut I guess, then that's certainly your right.

The problem is that the first accounts of the protesters is extremely one-sided and at this point shown to be lacking some extremely important details of how the events actually played out based on the second video. Because of that, I no longer take their accounts at face value, as it was obvious that the purpose of their actions was to solicit a specific response.

 

[thezerofire]

The PURPOSE of pepper spray is for it to hit the face, get in the eyes and the mouth and cause intense irritation. It becomes aerosolized and inhaled. THAT IS THE IDEA. This will occur whether it is sprayed from 2 feet or 20. Spraying from further away doesn't change anything! Whether I get a dot or a drippy splotch, to use your paint analogy, the chemical is still ingested and gets into the eyes. You are reaching and failing.

It will occur with different intensities from different ranges. There's a reason why the cans say "Use from distances of at least 15 feet."

Some would argue that that is exact what you're doing. The police have a legal definition of what they are to consider violence or resistence that doesn't change very often.

And imagine how much more dangerous their jobs would be if they had to wait until they were being actively attacked before legally being allowed to use force. Man, people really have zero respect for how potentially dangerous the average day is for a cop.

Cops are trained, hell mandated, to stay in control of a situation at all times. That means that if you resist them without cause, they are legally allowed to apply force.

I'm sure the average day of the UCPD is filled with just about no danger, and especially in this case. Oh shit kids sitting down with linked arms are so dangerous, those cops were in fear for their lives.

 

[KHarvey16]

If you'd like to discount several eye witness accounts rather than, I don't know, your gut I guess, then that's certainly your right.

Coughing up blood not being a side effect of pepper spray isn't my gut feeling. I can easily be swayed by evidence.

 

[KHarvey16]

It will occur with different intensities from different ranges. There's a reason why the cans say "Use from distances of at least 15 feet."

No, the intensity will not be different. For some reason I cannot understand, you think the parts of the chemicals separate the further away the point of contact is and the effect of the spray becomes lessened. This is nonsense and you should stop thinking it. It's a homogenous liquid, and whether it travels 2 feet or 20 feet it does not matter.

 

[RyanDG]

Oh shit kids sitting down with linked arms are so dangerous, those cops were in fear for their lives.

At that point in the video, it wasn't just kids sitting down linking arms. It was a build up of events where direct ultimatums were given to the officers and they were being prohibited from making valid arrests by a crowd that had not only encircled them but were also becoming increasingly confrontational and boiling towards inciting a specific reaction out of the officers.

There has to be some acceptance of cause and effect here. It wasn't just kids sitting down casually.

 

[Zabka]

Physical confrontations are dangerous. I cannot fathom why anyone would suggest that option is preferable. The ignorance is astounding.

Physical confrontations with bears and guys on angel dust can be dangerous. I'd love to hear your examples of cops being injured during the thousands of arrests that have occurred since OWS started.

 

[nib95]

This situation is very unlike the others. Also, the UK riots was a mess not even worth defending.

Also, it seems like LA is learning how to deal with this a lot better than it did before.

Not really. These people were protesting peacefully at the end of the day. Among the students were professors and lecturers. I'm sorry but there's no risk to health, danger or real cause to actually move them lest with actual force.

It's just a small snippet at just how much power government and police have over your liberties and freedoms or right to exercise a show of protest, even peacefully.

Protests like this take place ALL the time in the UK. Across Uni's, and just like this one, professors and teachers etc also often join in. And no they are not stamped out by Police, especially brutally. There's crowd control but the people are just left to protest so long as there's no violence. And that's EXACTLY how it should be.

I get the feeling that were these protests about something else, this shit wouldn't have gone down. In any case, the whole situation is fucked and further evidence that a lot needs to change.

 

[Plumbob]

That means that if you resist them without cause, they are legally allowed to apply force.

The UCPD actually had specific protocols limiting the use of force beyond that:

http://www.ucop.edu/ucophome/coordrev/ucpolicies/documents/policepol_adminproc.pdf

"[Arrestees and suspects] shall not be subject to physical force except as required to subdue violence or ensure detention. No officer shall strike an arrestee or suspect except in self-defense, to prevent an escape, or to prevent injury to another person."

The passive resistance in the video doesn't meet any of those criteria.

 

[RyanDG]

Physical confrontations with bears and guys on angel dust can be dangerous. I'd love to hear your examples of cops being injured during the thousands of arrests that have occurred since OWS started.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/17/ows-protesters-ready-for-day-of-action-across-all-5-boroughs/

Let's not completely ignore the fact that when you get mob mentality in place, shit happens, regardless of any admirable beliefs going into the mob.

 

[KHarvey16]

Physical confrontations with bears and guys on angel dust can be dangerous. I'd love to hear your examples of cops being injured during the thousands of arrests that have occurred since OWS started.

I'm not talking about just cops. The danger to everyone is increased when you physically engage someone and again, this situation is precisely why police and others use pepper spray. Physical force increases the chances of accidents or unnecessary violence from both participants. Pepper spray is MUCH safer than grabbing someone and dragging them out.

 

[thezerofire]

No, the intensity will not be different. For some reason I cannot understand, you think the parts of the chemicals separate the further away the point of contact is and the effect of the spray becomes lessened. This is nonsense and you should stop thinking it. It's a homogenous liquid, and whether it travels 2 feet or 20 feet it does not matter.

it's an aerosol spray, not a liquid stream. If you watch the videos, you can see the particles cloud about after they've been sprayed. At greater ranges, that cloud is bigger, and the pepper spray-to-air ratio is lower. the chemicals don't separate, but the aerosol particles spread out. That's how aerosol sprays work. I don't understand why this is so hard.

At that point in the video, it wasn't just kids sitting down linking arms. It was a build up of events where direct ultimatums were given to the officers and they were being prohibited from making valid arrests by a crowd that had not only encircled them but were also becoming increasingly confrontational and boiling towards inciting a specific reaction out of the officers.

There has to be some acceptance of cause and effect here. It wasn't just kids sitting down casually.

the point is that the police aren't supposed to use this kind of force unless they are being physically attacked, or to prevent someone else from being attacked. Those conditions aren't met.

 

[royalan]

I'm sure the average day of the UCPD is filled with just about no danger, and especially in this case. Oh shit kids sitting down with linked arms are so dangerous, those cops were in fear for their lives.

Now this is just plain ignorance.

There are literally hundreds of court cases and dozens of youtube videos detailing acts of violence committed by people who looked perfectly normal and harmless... right up until the point they were bashing someone's skull in on the subway. Or right up to the point that they're pulling a gun out and firing at a cop who merely stopped them for a busted tail light.

Cops would be absolute fools if they applied your logic. What may look like a harmless kid to you could be someone concealing a knife or gun. They might be a biter just ready to snap. They could be strung out on drugs or in other ways mentally unhinged to the point that attacking a police officer might seem like a totally acceptable course of action. That might not be worth considering to you, but to a person who's job involves literally putting their lives on the line daily you can bet your ass that those possibilities are something worth considering, and something they're trained to take into account.

 

[nib95]

Now this is just plain ignorance.

There are literally hundreds of court cases and dozens of youtube videos detailing acts of violence committed by people who looked perfectly normal and harmless... right up until the point they were bashing someone's skull in on the subway. Or right up to the point that they're pulling a gun out and firing at a cop who merely stopped them for a busted tail light.

Cops would be absolute fools if they applied your logic. What may look like a harmless kid to you could be someone concealing a knife or gun. They might be a biter just ready to snap. They could be strung out on drugs or in other ways mentally unhinged to the point that attacking a police officer might seem like a totally acceptable course of action. That might not be worth considering to you, but to a person who's job involves literally putting their lives on the line daily you can bet your ass that those possibilities are something worth considering, and someone their trained to take into account.

This culture of fear seriously needs to stop along with Governmental or Police excuses of undue or un-warranted violence, aggression, even war. The idea or chance of these peacefully protesting students and lecturers suddenly turning violent without being antagonised is ludicrous.

I cannot BELIEVE how much leeway some of you Americans give to Politicians, media, corporations, Police etc. It boggles the mind.

 

[Fusebox]

No, the intensity will not be different. For some reason I cannot understand, you think the parts of the chemicals separate the further away the point of contact is and the effect of the spray becomes lessened. This is nonsense and you should stop thinking it. It's a homogenous liquid, and whether it travels 2 feet or 20 feet it does not matter.

It's a spray, so of course the intensity will be different. If I farted right into your nose, it would stink worse than if I farted in your direction from 15 feet away.

 

[Zabka]

I'm not talking about just cops. The danger to everyone is increased when you physically engage someone and again, this situation is precisely why police and others use pepper spray. Physical force increases the chances of accidents or unnecessary violence from both participants. Pepper spray is MUCH safer than grabbing someone and dragging them out.

I'm sure that the arrestees were very happy to know that several hours of their blindness and pain saved the campus from incidental injuries as they were grabbed and dragged out.

Also, pepper spray of the strength they used at that distance will actually burn your skin in a way that nothing but time will heal.

 

[royalan]

The UCPD actually had specific protocols limiting the use of force beyond that:

http://www.ucop.edu/ucophome/coordrev/ucpolicies/documents/policepol_adminproc.pdf

"[Arrestees and suspects] shall not be subject to physical force except as required to subdue violence or ensure detention. No officer shall strike an arrestee or suspect except in self-defense, to prevent an escape, or to prevent injury to another person."

The passive resistance in the video doesn't meet any of those criteria.

Good thing they weren't spraying the kids they actually arrested then.

 

[KHarvey16]

it's an aerosol spray, not a liquid stream. If you watch the videos, you can see the particles cloud about after they've been sprayed. At greater ranges, that cloud is bigger, and the pepper spray-to-air ratio is lower. the chemicals don't separate, but the aerosol particles spread out. That's how aerosol sprays work. I don't understand why this is so hard.

Pepper spray is a liquid. You fail.

 

[thezerofire]

Now this is just plain ignorance.

There are literally hundreds of court cases and dozens of youtube videos detailing acts of violence committed by people who looked perfectly normal and harmless... right up until the point they were bashing someone's skull in on the subway. Or right up to the point that they're pulling a gun out and firing at a cop who merely stopped them for a busted tail light.

Cops would be absolute fools if they applied your logic. What may look like a harmless kid to you could be someone concealing a knife or gun. They might be a biter just ready to snap. They could be strung out on drugs or in other ways mentally unhinged to the point that attacking a police officer might seem like a totally acceptable course of action. That might not be worth considering to you, but to a person who's job involves literally putting their lives on the line daily you can bet your ass that those possibilities are something worth considering, and someone their trained to take into account.

they have their arms linked. There is literally no way they can assault anyone in that position. That's why people use that position.

I go to a UC. I see the UCPD every day. Situations like you describe don't really happen. They are not putting their lives on the line every day.

Pepper spray is a liquid. You fail.

not the one they're using. commercial pepper spray is a liquid. Military pepper spray is a spray. Watch the videos.

 

[Fusebox]

Pepper spray is a liquid. You fail.

 

[royalan]

This culture of fear seriously needs to stop along with Governmental or Police excuses of undue or un-warranted violence, aggression, even war. The idea of chance of these peacefully protesting students and lecturers suddenly turning violent without being antagonised is ludicrous.

But there is a chance, nonetheless.

Hell, how many more incidents of school shootings and acts of mass violence on campuses do we need to have in this world before people understand that the "student" label does not bar someone from being violent and/or unpredictable?

they have their arms linked. There is literally no way they can assault anyone in that position. That's why people use that position.

I go to a UC. I see the UCPD every day. Situations like you describe don't really happen. They are not putting their lives on the line every day.

The arms linked position is used to keep from being separated. Kinda why it's called "linking" your arms, and not using them as a shield.

And UC campuses aren't that drastically different from other college campuses in the US, so I understand the threat of danger doesn't seem as real in sequestered campus bubble. But that doesn't completely cancel out the risk, and it's the risks that cops prepare for.

 

[nib95]

But there is a chance, nonetheless.

Hell, how many more incidents of school shootings and acts of mass violence on campuses do we need to have in this world before people understand that the "student" label does not bar someone from being violent and/or unpredictable?

Fucking hell...just fucking hell...

You're literally throwing your liberties away at the most insignificant chance of danger or violence possible. In-fact, ironically, the kind of tact (Police being able to use violence even at the very sniff of a possibility of trouble) you are defending is more likely to cause the kind of dangers you speak of tend fold over.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'm sure that the arrestees were very happy to know that several hours of their blindness and pain saved the campus from incidental injuries as they were grabbed and dragged out.

Several hours of blindness? Oh, don't forget to mention the sterilization and loss of limbs! Maybe even genetic maladies passed down to their progeny!

I thin I'm just about done. You and the other brain surgeon over here are not interested in hearing facts. Every police department in this country will use pepper spray if they can avoid physical confrontation. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The fact you refuse to recognize this, and the reasons for it, is a testament to your inability to look at this objectively. Your mind was made up.

 

[KHarvey16]

That is an aerosolized liquid. Getting sprayed with that further away doesn't change anything because it's still the same chemicals and it hits your face as a liquid.

not the one they're using. commercial pepper spray is a liquid. Military pepper spray is a spray. Watch the videos.

Yes the one they are using. I don't have time to give you a chemistry lesson. It is a liquid that can aerosolize. Again, this changes nothing.

 

[royalan]

Fucking hell...just fucking hell...

You're literally throwing your liberties away at the most insignificant chance of danger or violence possible. In-fact, ironically, the kind of tact (Police being able to use violence even at the very sniff of a possibility of trouble) you are defending is more likely to cause the kind of dangers you speak of tend fold over.

I'm sorry, but I really don't get what you're advocating here.

 

[Zabka]

Some weird dudes in this thread. Temporary blindness is part of the reason why pepper spray is so effective, and water doesn't wash it out like it does with mace (the chemical, not the brand).

 

[thezerofire]

That is an aerosolized liquid. Getting sprayed with that further away doesn't change anything because it's still the same chemicals and it hits your face as a liquid.


Yes the one they are using. I don't have time to give you a chemistry lesson. It is a liquid that can aerosolize. Again, this changes nothing.

That's why they have a minimum distance, right? Who you do you think knows more about that pepper spray: you or the people who manufacture it? It's still the same chemicals, but at a lower parts-per-million. You can actually get some air if there's some air in the stream. If it's only pepper spray, you can't breathe in addition to the chemical burn, making it even worse. And it appears like I was off on the 15 feet, but 6 feet is still more than what they used.

 

[KHarvey16]

Some weird dudes in this thread. Temporary blindness is part of the reason why pepper spray is so effective, and water doesn't wash it out like it does with mace (the chemical, not the brand).

Temporary doesn't mean "several hours."