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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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What public reaction? Histrionics on here?

Three of these votes have been on the vanilla ice cream of GOP Cabinet-level posts.

I'm perfectly aware of the damage Trump can and will do.

Trying and failing to keep his Cabinet nominations in committee forever isn't going to do anything to prevent that. Voting no on the more reasonable of the nominees isn't going to prevent that.
On here only? Ahh the bubble still persists. Sure Shinra-bansho. Let's disagree on this. The sentiment is there. People are looking at Democrats in Congress to be part of the opposition. Remember the reports on the way they voted on Sanders amendment proposal? The way they went after Booker for cozying up to tillerson, etc, etc. There's a reason why those stories have traction. People are more engaged into politics than before, a lot of things that were ignored won't be getting the same treatment. Look at the OT, you have political threads up the wazzo. This isn't the only place like that, there are reasons for that.

Old days are over.
 
The federal Dems have deferred the act of spearheading the resistance to the states and major metropolitan mayors.

They don't seem to want to fight. They don't even want to present the perception that they're even interested in fighting. The DNC chair candidates (outside of Pete Buttigieg) felt it was a better use of their time to go to a donor retreat instead of marching with millions of outraged citizens on Saturday. Hollywood had to step in and be the voice of the Democrats in their absence. Props to the celebrities. Shame we can't vote for them.

It has been six days since the term started. SIX DAYS. Calm yourself good god. Politics move slow. The Federal Level Democrats will stand up to Trump when they can and when its smart too. If they just pick at and undermine every single little thing he does it'll only make people like you happy, who absolutely oppose Trump at every turn. The more mild mannered American isn't going to see it like that. They need to pick their battles, not come out looking like whiny children.
 
I'm sure that we'll see primary challengers from the Justice League to Elizabeth Forma and Saint Bernard of Vermont spring up tomorrow.

And only Gillary will be left standing.
 
It has been six days since the term started. SIX DAYS. Calm yourself good god. Politics move slow. The Federal Level Democrats will stand up to Trump when they can and when its smart too. If they just pick at and undermine every single little thing he does it'll only make people like you happy, who absolutely oppose Trump at every turn. The more mild mannered American isn't going to see it like that. They need to pick their battles, not come out looking like whiny children.
In what do you agree with Trump? What is there to agree? Gagging science? Destroying the environment? Be a fucking racist pig? His rampant corruption and nepotism? His sexual assault streak?
Tell me in what do you agree with him?
 

Wilsongt

Member
Is Trump defending Obama...?


2h
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Ungrateful TRAITOR Chelsea Manning, who should never have been released from prison, is now calling President Obama a weak leader. Terrible!
 

Kusagari

Member
What public reaction? Histrionics on here? Abstract "people"?

"People" don't care that Mattis was confirmed with some Democratic votes. I don't even know how many. I doubt anybody does without looking it up right now. Nor do people remember that 40 or whatever GOP Senators confirmed that evil monster murderer Hillary to be Secretary of State.

Three of these votes have been on the vanilla ice cream of GOP Cabinet-level posts.

I'm perfectly aware of the damage Trump can and will do.

Trying and failing to keep his Cabinet nominations in committee forever isn't going to do anything to prevent that. Voting no on the more reasonable of the nominees isn't going to prevent that.

The more reasonable picks are Mattis, Kelly, Haley, Chao and Shulkin. Three of those have been approved already.

Trying to act like people like Carson or Pompeo are "reasonable" because they said something reassuring in a hearing is madness.
 
In what do you agree with Trump? What is there to agree? Gagging science? Destroying the environment? Be a fucking racist pig? His rampant corruption and nepotism? His sexual assault streak?
Tell me in what do you agree with him?

Uh? I think you're putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate that at all. I don't agree with Trump. But challenging every single one of his cabinet appointments, which is really all that's happened at this point that you can challenge him on, isn't going to play like you think it is. But hey, you need to lump me in with everyone you hate? Go right ahead if that makes you feel better.

When his executive orders start taking affect, when he needs to run things through Congress for approval, yeah, they'll push back. Or at the very least that's when the real fight starts.
 
It has been six days since the term started. SIX DAYS. Calm yourself good god. Politics move slow. The Federal Level Democrats will stand up to Trump when they can and when its smart too. If they just pick at and undermine every single little thing he does it'll only make people like you happy, who absolutely oppose Trump at every turn. The more mild mannered American isn't going to see it like that. They need to pick their battles, not come out looking like whiny children.
Mild mannered people voted Republicans into congressional majorities and the presidency for exactly the behavior your cautioning dems against.

I wanna see the receipts on this sort of behavior actually tur ing off significant numbers of people.
 

UberTag

Member
It has been six days since the term started. SIX DAYS. Calm yourself good god. Politics move slow. The Federal Level Democrats will stand up to Trump when they can and when its smart too. If they just pick at and undermine every single little thing he does it'll only make people like you happy, who absolutely oppose Trump at every turn. The more mild mannered American isn't going to see it like that. They need to pick their battles, not come out looking like whiny children.
The Republicans spent 8 years behaving like whiny children and look at them now.
 
The more reasonable picks are Mattis, Kelly, Haley, Chao and Shulkin. Three of those have been approved already.

Trying to act like people like Carson or Pompeo are "reasonable" because they said something reassuring in a hearing is madness.
Yes, that's why I said three of them were vanilla.

Pompeo got notably less votes from Democrats than Mattis, Kelly and Haley.
Largely from red/purple state Senators.
 
The Republicans spent 8 years behaving like whiny children and look at them now.

Six days. You will get your defiance from Democrats, but it takes time. There's no point in calling for purity tests
Which I hate
when we haven't even seen how things are really going to play out yet.
 
Six days. You will get your defiance from Democrats, but it takes time. There's no point in calling for purity tests
Which I hate
when we haven't even seen how things are really going to play out yet.
Sure, give them a chance, but IMO anybody who voted yes on anybody is on thin ice. We have limited scandal capital (as in, we can only make a major issue out of so many things before most people tune us out) but there's 0 incentive to actually cooperate with the Republicans ever.

2018 primaries aren't that far off. By all means, five them a few more weeks, but anybody not in full resistance mode by March is somebody we should be looking at kicking out.
 
Sure, give them a chance, but IMO anybody who voted yes on anybody is on thin ice. We have limited scandal capital (as in, we can only make a major issue out of so many things before most people tune us out) but there's 0 incentive to actually cooperate with the Republicans ever.

2018 primaries aren't that far off. By all means, five them a few more weeks, but anybody not in full resistance mode by March is somebody we should be looking at kicking out.

Even if they stand against the really bad things but not every bad thing? What if they have great appeal in their particular district? What if the person we try to primary them with only appeals to the far left and has no right appeal? That sounds dangerously close to something like purity tests to me.

My example for this is Brianna Wu challenging Stephen F. Lynch. Even if, somehow, you got her to primary him it'd likely only be damaging things. He has massive appeal in my particular district because he can generally satisfy voters on both sides of the fence. I don't think individuals like that should be ousted just because they don't fight every single battle. At least not until we've defeated Donald Trump.
 
Sure, give them a chance, but IMO anybody who voted yes on anybody is on thin ice. We have limited scandal capital (as in, we can only make a major issue out of so many things before most people tune us out) but there's 0 incentive to actually cooperate with the Republicans ever.

2018 primaries aren't that far off. By all means, five them a few more weeks, but anybody not in full resistance mode by March is somebody we should be looking at kicking out.

So you'd be okay with primarying Bernie Sanders in 2018?
 
So you'd be okay with primarying Bernie Sanders in 2018?
M8 I'm no bernista. If he kowtows, go for it.

Even if they stand against the really bad things but not every bad thing? What if they have great appeal in their particular district? What if the person we try to primary them with only appeals to the far left and has no right appeal? That sounds dangerously close to something like purity tests to me.

My example for this is Brianna Wu challenging Stephen F. Lynch. Even if, somehow, you got her to primary him it'd likely only be damaging things. He has massive appeal in my particular district because he can generally satisfy voters on both sides of the fence. I don't think individuals like that should be ousted just because they don't fight every single battle. At least not until we've defeated Donald Trump.

I'm not saying we get stupid about it, we still need to do an okay job picking candidates. But yeah. If your elected official isn't unconditionally opposing the current administration, they're not doing their job. Never give Republicans an inch, IMO.
 
Being fair Republicans confirmed Obamas appointments to cabinet positions

If they cave on Sessions and Tillerson I will be tight there calling them spineless fucks
You should just do it now then. Because fellow Senators are going to confirm a fellow Senator. H. Clinton, Ken Salazar, Kerry. There've been others in the past that have been voice votes.
 

dramatis

Member
Once again, we need to thank the Breitbarts of the world for their relentless assault on her reputation.

For those of you who haven't watched it yet, here's a link to NYC Mayor de Blasio's press conference from earlier this afternoon.

The highlight for me...

50:29
Before you get all excited about de Blasio, you should know it's his reelection year and he's in NYC. What de Blasio does here cannot be emulated by people in Missouri or other states like it.

Some writer in NY even commented a couple weeks back that the election of Trump has revived de Blasio's career. Admittedly the reason he wasn't doing well was because of police stuff.

You say there's little significance to it, however public reactions prove that you and chichikov are wrong about this. So are they. This isn't the time for empty gestures. It's time for absolute resistance. Way to miss the plot. Then people wonder why Hillary lost. This fucking complacency and appeasement was tired 4 years ago. Heck, look at Obama and what he got from trying to be decent towards them.

As I said, keep fucking that chicken. It's like there's no self awareness of the existential threat that the GOP represents to all non-whites and the environment at large.

Signalling it's important. People want resistance, they want their representatives to resist, to be with them in the trenches, to have something, someone to rally around, while they are busy playing nice and courteous with the enemy.

There's no conciliation to be had. The GOP wants to erase all that opposes them.
The "public reactions" consists of Twitter screaming by millennials. Hasn't proven shit. The preoccupation of millennials with optics instead of rational thinking is what led to the current problem in the first place. Same fellows advocating votes for Stein and Johnson, same individuals who would have rather had accelerationism over Hillary—this is what they wanted, now they want full opposition? When they couldn't be bothered to unite when it actually mattered? When they were the ones who didn't come out and vote properly?

"Nothing but opposition" strategy is easy. But it's not a winning strategy for Democrats because they want to advocate doing things, not dysfunction. Proving the government doesn't work is much easier than proving government works.
 

Pixieking

Banned
M8 I'm no bernista. If he kowtows, go for it.

I'm not saying we get stupid about it, we still need to do an okay job picking candidates. But yeah. If your elected official isn't unconditionally opposing the current administration, they're not doing their job. Never give Republicans an inch, IMO.

There's a line that people should think about it, and it's this: Does your elected official supporting Trump and the GOP for objectively good things (like infrastructure spending) mean you are not going to support them?

People are going to have to think about whether they want their elected officials to oppose Trump regardless of the potential good or bad that may come out of it, or if they want people to give some thought to what is passing in front of them. Because I can totally understand (and in some way support) opposition for the sake of opposition, but it has the potential to backfire on Dems enormously. And not just with the people here, who pay attention to politics, but to every Joe out there.
 
Uh? I think you're putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate that at all. I don't agree with Trump. But challenging every single one of his cabinet appointments, which is really all that's happened at this point that you can challenge him on, isn't going to play like you think it is. But hey, you need to lump me in with everyone you hate? Go right ahead if that makes you feel better.

When his executive orders start taking affect, when he needs to run things through Congress for approval, yeah, they'll push back. Or at the very least that's when the real fight starts.
The point was, if you don't agree, then you should oppose him. that's all.

Before you get all excited about de Blasio, you should know it's his reelection year and he's in NYC. What de Blasio does here cannot be emulated by people in Missouri or other states like it.

Some writer in NY even commented a couple weeks back that the election of Trump has revived de Blasio's career. Admittedly the reason he wasn't doing well was because of police stuff.


The "public reactions" consists of Twitter screaming by millennials. Hasn't proven shit. The preoccupation of millennials with optics instead of rational thinking is what led to the current problem in the first place. Same fellows advocating votes for Stein and Johnson, same individuals who would have rather had accelerationism over Hillary—this is what they wanted, now they want full opposition? When they couldn't be bothered to unite when it actually mattered? When they were the ones who didn't come out and vote properly?

"Nothing but opposition" strategy is easy. But it's not a winning strategy for Democrats because they want to advocate doing things, not dysfunction. Proving the government doesn't work is much easier than proving government works.
Keep building monoliths. I'm neither of those things that you claim comprise the reactions and still disagree with them.However, I'm sure you can try using a larger brush to see if you paint me with it.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
LOL Spicer tweeted his @presssec password by accident? I mean, come on.
 

studyguy

Member
Fully expect hardline progressives to get angry again when his scotus pick comes through. He will end up getting someone on the bench regardless of what we do one way or another.

I get the feeling even if we block a pick and they are forced to compromise without the nuclear option being used, there will still be people mad we voted at all.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
What?

Holy shit.

Wow, that's what that was yesterday? People were making fun, thinking he had just made a post by mistake with some random characters.

Actually, he has done it two days in a row with different characters. Really bizarre. https://twitter.com/annalecta/status/824615628212428800

Is it his password? Secret messages? Just weird. Read through that twitter thread. It appears he's even using a gmail account as the place to receive his password restoration for that Twitter account. Isn't that against the law?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Brian Stelter Verified account
‏@brianstelter

14 minutes apart: Fox says "ungrateful traitor," Trump says "ungrateful traitor," Fox says "weak leader," Trump says "weak leader."
.
 

dramatis

Member
Trump supporters are willing to lie about his inauguration attendance to preserve their political identities. A new study explains how anyone can overcome this kind of knee-jerk partisanship.
d6b61f749.png

Trump voters were overwhelmingly more likely than Clinton voters to say Obama’s photo was actually Trump’s. What’s more, 15 percent of Trump voters told the researchers there are actually more people in the photo from Trump’s inauguration—the one with big, bare white patches that are clearly be-peopled in Obama’s photo.

“Some Trump supporters in our sample decided to use this question to express their support for Trump rather than to answer the survey question factually,” [researchers Brian Schaffner and Samantha Luks] wrote in The Washington Post recently.
Typically, being confronted with evidence only makes people cling more firmly to their beliefs on controversial topics like gun control, climate change, or vaccine safety. Similarly, in this study, Kahan found that science-literate conservatives were more likely to dispute humans’ role in global warming, while science-literate liberals were much more likely to acknowledge it. (People who didn’t know much about science were equally likely to agree and disagree, regardless of party.)

“We always observed this depressing pattern: The members of the public most able to make sense of scientific evidence are in fact the most polarized," Kahan said in a statement.
It's an amazingly illogical world.

Keep building monoliths. I'm neither of those things that you claim comprise the reactions and still disagree with them.However, I'm sure you can try using a larger brush to see if you paint me with it.
There is a certain irony in this statement considering your own tendency to paint Democrats with a broad brush.
 
While Bannon plots that in the background Trump will be busy distracting people by being an idiot.

If Bannon is in charge right now, we have took at every action as part of a bigger more sinister plot.

God I can't believe I sound like some crazy conspiracy theorist
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I don't for a second believe there's no obvious distance between 'nominee will be approved anyway' and 'i, democrat, will throw my vote in to prove _____'
 
The Nazis were much smarter than Trump is.

Trump wouldn't have used "this golfer I knew, he told me about how he wasn't allowed to vote just because he's not a U.S. citizen but the brown people were allowed to vote!" if he was trying to convince people to take away voting rights.

He's just not connected to reality.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cr...6-presidential-vote-a-look-down-in-the-weeds/

A closer look at the Pennsylvania results illustrates the problem that Clinton faced. While she slightly underperformed in Philadelphia compared to Obama’s 2012 showing, she over-performed in the Philadelphia suburbs. She swept all four suburban counties (Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Montgomery) by a combined margin of nearly 190,000 votes, 65,000 votes better than Obama’s suburban advantage four years earlier.

That gave Clinton a lead of more than 660,000 votes heading out of the Philadelphia metro area. Add an edge of nearly 110,000 votes for Clinton in Pennsylvania’s other major population center, Allegheny County (Pittsburgh), and she had an impressive lead of more than 770,000 votes — 65,000 votes larger than Obama’s in 2012 — to withstand a Republican counterattack in the rest of the state.

Obama had been able to do so easily, as Romney could trim only 400,000 votes from Obama’s lead in the vast swath of Pennsylvania outside the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh areas. But the Trump forces concentrated on the state’s interior, with its small and medium-sized cities, old industrial centers, small towns, and rural terrain. Much of the resource-rich territory had seen better days economically and was tailor-made for Trump’s pledge to “Make America Great Again.” While Romney carried seven counties in Pennsylvania with at least 70% of the vote, the number for Trump was 23.

The result was a Trump margin of more than 800,000 votes outside the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh areas, enough for a narrow statewide win. It was the first time that Republicans had carried the Keystone State’s electoral votes since 1988, and they did it with a different playbook than then. In the 1980s and before, the Republicans’ path to victory in Pennsylvania often started by building a big lead in the Philadelphia suburbs. Not so with Trump, who won both the state and the White House by following his own version of the path less traveled.

:(
 
Article discusses how the Dems should deal with Trump.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/democrats-trump-strategy-234206

What began as a high-minded discussion about how to position the Democratic Party against President Donald Trump appears to be nearing its conclusion. The bulk of the party has settled on a scorched-earth, not-now-not-ever model of opposition.

In legislative proposals, campaign promises, donor pitches and even in some Senate hearings, Democrats have opted for a hard-line, give-no-quarter posture, a reflection of a seething party base that will have it no other way.

According to interviews with roughly two dozen party leaders and elected officeholders, the internal debate over whether to take the conciliatory path — to pursue a high-road approach as a contrast to Trump’s deeply polarizing and norm-violating style — is largely settled, cemented in place by a transition and first week in office that has confirmed the left’s worst fears about Trump’s temperament.
 

GutsOfThor

Member
Actually, he has done it two days in a row with different characters. Really bizarre. https://twitter.com/annalecta/status/824615628212428800

Is it his password? Secret messages? Just weird. Read through that twitter thread. It appears he's even using a gmail account as the place to receive his password restoration for that Twitter account. Isn't that against the law?

It's secret code for, "Someone get me the fuck outta here!"
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Wow--The ENTIRE State Department Senior Management team resigned. Every single person. I had no idea.
It's the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that's incredibly difficult to replicate," said David Wade, who served as State Department chief of staff under Secretary of State John Kerry.
 
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