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[Valhelm]

Chris Rock's definition of conservative is something interesting that I hadn't considered before.

 

[Zekes!]

It's weird that this is the thing in that interview that prompted the thread. I believe that was also the only usage of the term "political correctness" in the entire interview, as well.

It's a historically loaded term, and was poisoned early in its life much like "Social Justice Warrior" has been poisoned now. Hopefully when we repeat history further on in the 21st century, we'll remix the dumb shit with a little more aplomb than that particular example.

Usually what happens is the phrase "Political Correctness" is used, and that's more often than not a signal for people who think life's gotten more unfair now that marginalized people aren't willing to stay marginalized for the sake of you having a cheap ha-ha at their expense.

And I used the word "cheap" there on purpose. There's a reason. What stand-ups do isn't cheap, usually. It's work. It's their way of life. Rock mentions having to workshop his jokes. He doesn't just fart them out at work, or burp them up on twitter and call it a day. He works on his shit, and like he says, so does EVERY OTHER STAND-UP HE KNOWS.

When those guys are taking subjects that can be touchy, and trying to figure out how to mine legitmate laughs from them, that's not cheap. That's not thoughtless. They're putting a ton of thought into their art, and hoping it helps give their career more fuel to continue on, keeping them paid, keeping them secure.

This is not really all that comparable to you feeling upset because you shit up a thread with the first "edgy" thing that popped into your ass and people called you out on the stink.

And that's usually what happens when discussions about comedy and "political correctness" pop up. Because it's not really about comedy, or political correctness. It's just another avenue for whiners to whine about how unfair it is that they don't get to be giant fucking assholes to less fortunate people without repercussion.

Shit, took the words (and said them much better) right outta my mouth.

 

[diehard]

Wait, being overly aggressive in not wanting to offend people is conservative? lol wat

 

[soul creator]

I wish we coddled kids (and all citizens) with things like a better social safety net :/

That's the type of "coddling" I can get behind!

 

[kirblar]

Chris Rock's definition of conservative is something interesting that I hadn't considered before.

It's the type of thing that drives people to "both sides suck!" because both sides have a large number of obnoxious dogmatist types who are not fun to be around and are impossible to please.

 

[Archurro]

I hate how in threads like this devolve into "people are too sensitive these days" rants. Obviously if someone tells you that calling someone "black" in terms of African-Americans is wrong, they can fuck off.

But fighting "political correctness" doesn't give you an excuse to make fun of marginalized people. Not being able to say a joke about black/latino people is not "being oppressed by political correctness," it's called not being a shithole.

Obviously the "politically correct" line is subjective, but if people are constantly telling you to be "politically correct" and not say certain things, maybe it's because you're being a dick and not that everyone else is coddled.

This isn't a generation of babies who cry at everything. This is a generation of people stating "hey, what you're saying is fucked up and you should stop saying that."

 

[GameGuru59]

A man after my own heart.

Not in their political views — not like they’re voting Republican — but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody. Kids raised on a culture of “We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose.” Or just ignoring race to a fault. You can’t say “the black kid over there.” No, it’s “the guy with the red shoes.” You can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive.

YAAAASSS!

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I hate how in threads like this devolve into "people are too sensitive these days" rants. Obviously if someone tells you that calling someone "black" in terms of African-Americans is wrong, they can fuck off.

But fighting "political correctness" doesn't give you an excuse to make fun of marginalized people. Not being able to say a joke about black/latino people is not "being oppressed by political correctness," it's called not being a shithole.

Obviously the "politically correct" line is subjective, but if people are constantly telling you to be "politically correct" and not say certain things, maybe it's because you're being a dick and not that everyone else is coddled.

This isn't a generation of babies who cry at everything. This is a generation of people stating "hey, what you're saying is fucked up and you should stop saying that."

"People are too sensitive these days!" "How dare you call me cis-gender!" "Hating women does not lead to school shootings, how dare you say something like that! Hating women isn't the problem."

Are most of those people in a nutshell.

 

[GameGuru59]

Obviously the "politically correct" line is subjective, but if people are constantly telling you to be "politically correct" and not say certain things, maybe it's because you're being a dick and not that everyone else is coddled.

Or, alternatively, maybe it does. I can tell when someone is being intentionally harmful to another person. This is not always the case.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Or, alternatively, maybe it does. I can tell when someone is being intentionally harmful to another person. This is not always the case.

We need more positive discussion about wife beating and Holocaust revisionism around, don't we.

 

[GameGuru59]

We need more discussion about wife beating and Holocaust revisionism around, don't we.

You may need glasses because the bolded has nothing to do with me.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

You may need glasses because the bolded has nothing to do with me.

You hate the anti-Holocaust revisionism laws because "muh free speech" tho.

 

[GameGuru59]

You hate the anti-Holocaust revisionism laws because "muh free speech" tho.

I hate any law that prohibits expression of any idea. That is not Holocaust revisionism.

 

[richiek]

On the subject of 1 WTC:

It's OK To Say It: 1 WTC Kind Of Sucks

 

[GameGuru59]

On the subject of 1 WTC:

It's OK To Say It: 1 WTC Kind Of Sucks

Hell, the original WTC's pretty much sucked. There's a reason America's attitude toward the idea of "OMG tall building!" is basically "We off that shit." these days. To 1WTC's credit, it's better than the originals.

 

[JDSN]

Lol, its obvious who is reading what they wanna read and who is reading the whole thing, as if Chris Rock didnt stop doing the nigga/black thing a long time ago. I feel like im witnessing another spiral of internet stupidity, denial and cognitive dissonance like the one that spawned this baby.

 

[Satch]

i like this because people ripped his statement about political correctness right out of its context with regard to comedic work and its relation to the audience and then used it as a means of defending themselves after theyre racist or sexist or homophobic on neogaf dot com lol

 

[double jump]

While Chris is right I feel like those statements are going to backfire like his n**** vs black people joke.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Also, I go to college right now and none of the people in my classes ever talk about social issues and almost all of them use ableist, sexist, and homophobic language. We're going through a terrible year for rapes on campus and the man that suggested changing the fight song (which I thought was a dumb suggestion but w/e) got tons of death threats for doing so. I don't know if colleges are as socially progressive as people think. Dumb 20 year old kids who are on their way to the top 10% earners don't strike me as a progressive group in general.

Or maybe the U just has problems :/

i like this because people ripped his statement about political correctness right out of its context with regard to comedic work and its relation to the audience and then used it as a means of defending themselves after theyre racist or sexist or homophobic on neogaf dot com lol

Words and offense just shouldn't offend people, lol thin skin minorities who have to face discrimination from everyone.

And now, onto #GamerGate month 4 as people continue to demand Leigh Alexander's firing for an article with insults in it.

 

[harSon]

While Chris is right I feel like those statements are going to backfire like his n**** vs black people joke.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the comment. Political Correctness is probably one of the most abused concepts out there.

 

[stolin]

"Political correctness is the oppression of our intellectual movement so no one says anything anymore in case somebody else gets offended..."

Steve Hughes - What's wrong with being offended?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b48_1305790944

I really wish George Carlin was still alive today... honest direct language.

 

[Brazil]

Great interview. Thanks for the link

I find myself agreeing with him on basically everything he says.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I hate how in threads like this devolve into "people are too sensitive these days" rants. Obviously if someone tells you that calling someone "black" in terms of African-Americans is wrong, they can fuck off.

But fighting "political correctness" doesn't give you an excuse to make fun of marginalized people. Not being able to say a joke about black/latino people is not "being oppressed by political correctness," it's called not being a shithole.

Obviously the "politically correct" line is subjective, but if people are constantly telling you to be "politically correct" and not say certain things, maybe it's because you're being a dick and not that everyone else is coddled.

This isn't a generation of babies who cry at everything. This is a generation of people stating "hey, what you're saying is fucked up and you should stop saying that."

I'm one of those you would call marginalized and I think political correctness has gone too far. This oversensitivity hasn't really helped the cause for equality it has just helped sweep real racism under the rug. The more you satire and joke about racism, stereotypes, politics, or taboo subjects the more absurd they become.

The real racism/offensive shit is the shit that you will never see coming.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Really interesting read and great insight. Honestly social media has a major impact even on stuff you'd normally thought wouldn't be related.

"Social justice" is the new "politically correct." It's about trying to shout down anyone who says something that might be offensive to anyone else (regardless of whether you are personally offended), and it's about having absolutely zero sense of humor or irony.

I saw Lisa Lampanelli a few weeks ago. Packed house, tons of "problematic" humor. Everyone had a good time and it never really felt that hateful or mean-spirited. I kinda wonder what the point is in launching angry Twitter PR campaigns against Stephen Colbert over some uber-mild joke when there are still people like Lampanelli and Trey Parker/Matt Stone making careers out of pretty flagrantly racist and sexist material. I tend to just assume the social justice crowd is in such an echo chamber that they've forgotten about all the worst offenders.

I honestly believe slacktivism is the true root of evil. Slacktivism gives you the feel that you're doing something "good" to appropriate yourself, thinking that what you did matters due to the "every little bit helps" mentality.

 

[JCX]

I'm one of those you would call marginalized and I think political correctness has gone too far. This oversensitivity hasn't really helped the cause for equality it has just helped sweep real racism under the rug.

I agree that joking about race is important (being black, some of my jokes touch on race), but I don't see how allowing more voices at the table is stifling progress on race/gender/LGBT issues.

Someone saying "hey I don't like it when you call me a (insert derogatory term) is probably saying so because that term isn't intended to keep someone on an equal level.

The way I see it, in the past, you had one dominant set of norms curated by one subset of the population. Now, voices that were once silenced or dismissed as silly (she wasn't raped, she just didn't like the guy) are now at least treated with some bit of truth. I don't see how this is hurting voices that were once too scared to speak up and out.

Instead of asking "why can't I say/do thing that is now considered bad", try asking "why might that person and many other people now think this thing is bad?" odds are that the group thought the term/action was offensive before, but were too marginalized to risk speaking out.

It's troubling that empathy is considered a bad thing now.

The more you satire and joke about racism, stereotypes, politics, or taboo subjects the more absurd they become.

The real racism/offensive shit is the shit that you will never see coming.

It's not good to downplay the power of words, considering that our society moves due to language. Words do have power. Right now we're seeing Hannibal's bit finally causing serious discussion about Cosby's rape allegations. All from a stand-up set.

We don't need jokes to make racism absurd, because racism by its very nature is already absurd enough.

Our society maintaining a 1940's definition of racism is what stifles conversation. Nothing can be deemed racially motivated unless the person is running down the street yelling nigger in blackface with a noose in one hand and a burning cross in the other.

I wish we could finally address how discriminatory housing practices in the mid 1900s contributed to our segregated cities, or how disproportionate mass incarceration and drug law enforcement helps cripple communities of color, but because this is boring, slow, occasionally unintentional racism (and not cartoonish, obvious racism) we can't even agree that it's a problem.

 

[ronito]

Social media changed everything. Now squeaky wheel can become huge screaming wheels with little effort.

 

[ivysaur12]

I agree that joking about race is important (being black, some of my jokes touch on race), but I don't see how allowing more voices at the table is stifling progress on race/gender/LGBT issues.

Someone saying "hey I don't like it when you call me a (insert derogatory term) is probably saying so because that term isn't intended to keep someone on an equal level.

The way I see it, in the past, you had one dominant set of norms curated by one subset of the population. Now, voices that were once silenced or dismissed as silly (she wasn't raped, she just didn't like the guy) are now at least treated with some bit of truth. I don't see how this is hurting voices that were once too scared to speak up and out.

Instead of asking "why can't I say/do thing that is now considered bad", try asking "why might that person and many other people now think this thing is bad?" odds are that the group thought the term/action was offensive before, but were too marginalized to risk speaking out.

It's troubling that empathy is considered a bad thing now.



It's not good to downplay the power of words, considering that our society moves due to language. Words do have power. Right now we're seeing Hannibal's bit finally causing serious discussion about Cosby's rape allegations. All from a stand-up set.

We don't need jokes to make racism absurd, because racism by its very nature is already absurd enough.

Our society maintaining a 1940's definition of racism is what stifles conversation. Nothing can be deemed racially motivated unless the person is running down the street yelling nigger in blackface with a noose in one hand and a burning cross in the other.

I wish we could finally address how discriminatory housing practices in the mid 1900s contributed to our segregated cities, or how disproportionate mass incarceration and drug law enforcement helps cripple communities of color, but because this is boring, slow, occasionally unintentional racism (and not cartoonish, obvious racism) we can't even agree that it's a problem.

I agree with all of this. I also don't think Chris is talking about humor at the expense of a minority group or women, which I think some in this thread seem to believe. What he seems to be talking about is the misunderstanding of the context of a joke, or still trying to work a joke out that might be related to some truth yet still skirts a line on exactly how it should be delivered. This then gets to his larger point about social media -- it's too bad, too. The idea that phones might have to be banned in some comedy clubs is insane. Those who can't understand context are victims of their own stupidity. He's talking about a very specific world of standup comedy.

When people talk about political correctness, they're usually not talking about a lack of context when understanding humor or being too stupid/naive/unaware/stupid to understand any humor that talks about race/sex/sexual orientation/gender in a way that is meaningful. It's about not being able to say stupid shit about the women/POC/LGBT folks that used to be socially acceptable even a few years ago. This is not about being "overly sensitive" -- it's that we've finally gotten to a point where we listen to women/POC/LGBT folks on things that bother them. It's why we should at least have the empathy to understand legitimate emotions on why people might feel some way.

A lack of empathy is very, very dangerous. Empathy is one of our most important tools in understanding the plight of racial minorities, sexual minorities, and women. Saying that empathy is over sensitivity strikes me as something disturbing.

 

[PhantomHound]

Chris Rock's definition of conservative is something interesting that I hadn't considered before.

Yeah, it's usually what I would call a bleeding heart liberal.

 

[anaron]

(Sort of a tangent on comedy, and then I'll circle back): I don't really love the term political correctness or "social justice warrior" in general, because it seems to come from a place where people don't have a right to take issue with anything and a lack of empathy for groups who might have a justifiable issue with something. I generally see it as passive and dismissive.

That being said, comedy requires context, and most should be given an artistic license that can convey satire or the like. That doesn't necessarily mean that anything a comedian says should be shielded from any criticism, but many times critics of "controversial" comedy don't take the time to understand the context of that joke. In that sense, I don't see them as a victim of political correctness, but instead sheer stupidity.

Summed up my thoughts on it

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Chris Rock's definition of conservative is something interesting that I hadn't considered before.

"Conservative" and "liberal" have thuout their entire histories as words been incredibly maleable and everchanging, much to the horror and shame of those who define their politcal selves entirely by the aegis of those terms.

 

[HylianTom]

Really liked the part about Gone Girl vs Anchorman. A lot more people could have made Gone Girl work compared to making Anchorman work. Comedy is harder than drama, and yet it never gets the respect it deserves.

You aren't kidding. A failed attempt at drama is one thing - you get a product that's maybe boring or stilted, or maybe even comedic. But a bad attempt at comedy? That can hurt in horrible, unsalvageable ways.

To quote Mel Brooks: "when you die at the palace.. you really die at the palace!"

 

[akira28]

"Conservative" and "liberal" have thuout their entire histories as words been incredibly maleable and everchanging, much to the horror and shame of those who define their politcal selves entirely by the aegis of those terms.

Some dude wrote a book on that. Conservative and Liberal was invented in the 1960s by William F. Buckley Jr. when he got into politics and was working on revitalizing the Republican party image and framing the pro-federal Eisenhower/Roosevelt style of government (New Deal Liberalism) as detrimental to the longevity of the nation, etc, etc. And claiming that he and his "Conservative" ilk are the preservers of the Constitutional Republic, Libertarians and Anti-Communists like Goldwater used him and his media holdings as a sort of public relations resource and it sort of helped change the entire course of the Republican party.

starting but not stopping with how we talk and use the words conservative and liberal. Kind of 1984 spooky when you think about it. New speak and all that.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Some dude wrote a book on that. Conservative and Liberal was invented in the 1960s by William F. Buckley Jr. when he got into politics and was working on revitalizing the Republican party image and framing the pro-federal Eisenhower/Roosevelt style of government (New Deal Liberalism) as detrimental to the longevity of the nation, etc, etc. And claiming that he and his "Conservative" ilk are the preservers of the Constitutional Republic, Libertarians and Anti-Communists like Goldwater used him and his media holdings as a sort of public relations resource and it sort of helped change the entire course of the Republican party.

starting but not stopping with how we talk and use the words conservative and liberal. Kind of 1984 spooky when you think about it. New speak and all that.

Liberal was around well before 1960. Milton Friedman fought the war to take back "liberal" from Democrats for decades with plenty of others with him. It was kind of silly.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I tend to loathe the term "political correctness" in everyday life situations because it tends to be an excuse for people to say ignorant shit in professional settings. I think the term has a different, less loaded meaning with respect to comedy, and art in general. I don't get offended by comedians, and anyone who does needs to re-evaluate their priorities. We had this discussion a few months ago with respect to Sarah Silverman, who is somehow still rustling jimmies in 2014. Let it go.

If a comedian can tell an edgy joke that's funny, more power to him or her.

 

[Kreed]

While Chris is right I feel like those statements are going to backfire like his n**** vs black people joke.

It's unfortunate because the OP's quotes are great in full context in regards to comedians. But you are right, individuals who think they have been "persecuted" online and use variations of the term "Social Justice Warrior" in serious conversation will likely take these statements as Chris Rock supporting their mindset.

 

[BobbyRobby]

I kinda wonder what the point is in launching angry Twitter PR campaigns against Stephen Colbert over some uber-mild joke when there are still people like Lampanelli and Trey Parker/Matt Stone making careers out of pretty flagrantly racist and sexist material. I tend to just assume the social justice crowd is in such an echo chamber that they've forgotten about all the worst offenders.

I think they target people who they believe are susceptible to the attack.

Colbert caters to the liberal college crowd, and they butter his bread.

Matt and Trey have been targeted and they haven't backed down, so people have largely stopped trying.

 

[akira28]

Liberal was around well before 1960. Milton Friedman fought the war to take back "liberal" from Democrats for decades with plenty of others with him. It was kind of silly.

I'm talking in context of how the words are used today socially and in politics. i.e. "The Eternal Struggle" between Capital L Liberals and Capital C Conservatives that has controlled politics for the last 50 years. I mean yeah both words have been around for a while. Used as strong adjectives and power words, associations with liberty, security, etc. 19th Century style liberalism was a bit more laissez-faire, but early 20th century Republican conservatism would be considered a little soft for today's crowd. Certainly not the Type-A Captain America New Conservatives

anyway, that was my whole point. you rarely see anyone differentiating between little and big letter whatever, because they're both brands like Coca-Cola, and it was masterminded by Buckley. hahaha oh yeah Roger Ailes, the dude who heads Fox news was also instrumental in the branding.

 

[gohepcat]

People who think "political correctness" is an actual thing are amazing to me.

So when we stopped calling black people "negroes and coloreds" that's somehow not political correctness?

Times change, words become antiquated and offensive. Any one of you who think political correctness has gone too far, yet don't use the word phrase "colored people" are hypocrites.

Do you really not understand that people have been saying kids today are "coddled" from the dawn of time? ...but this time is different right?


My god it's like there is absolutely no knowledge of history...

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm talking in context of how the words are used today socially and in politics. i.e. "The Eternal Struggle" between Capital L Liberals and Capital C Conservatives that has controlled politics for the last 50 years. I mean yeah both words have been around for a while. Used as strong adjectives and power words, associations with liberty, security, etc. 19th Century style liberalism was a bit more laissez-faire, but early 20th century Republican conservatism would be considered a little soft for today's crowd. Certainly not the Type-A Captain America New Conservatives

anyway, that was my whole point.

Yeah, that is true and it really has been kind of weird. I misread your post.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I agree that joking about race is important (being black, some of my jokes touch on race), but I don't see how allowing more voices at the table is stifling progress on race/gender/LGBT issues.

Someone saying "hey I don't like it when you call me a (insert derogatory term) is probably saying so because that term isn't intended to keep someone on an equal level.

The way I see it, in the past, you had one dominant set of norms curated by one subset of the population. Now, voices that were once silenced or dismissed as silly (she wasn't raped, she just didn't like the guy) are now at least treated with some bit of truth. I don't see how this is hurting voices that were once too scared to speak up and out.

Instead of asking "why can't I say/do thing that is now considered bad", try asking "why might that person and many other people now think this thing is bad?" odds are that the group thought the term/action was offensive before, but were too marginalized to risk speaking out.

It's troubling that empathy is considered a bad thing now.



It's not good to downplay the power of words, considering that our society moves due to language. Words do have power. Right now we're seeing Hannibal's bit finally causing serious discussion about Cosby's rape allegations. All from a stand-up set.

We don't need jokes to make racism absurd, because racism by its very nature is already absurd enough.

Our society maintaining a 1940's definition of racism is what stifles conversation. Nothing can be deemed racially motivated unless the person is running down the street yelling nigger in blackface with a noose in one hand and a burning cross in the other.

I wish we could finally address how discriminatory housing practices in the mid 1900s contributed to our segregated cities, or how disproportionate mass incarceration and drug law enforcement helps cripple communities of color, but because this is boring, slow, occasionally unintentional racism (and not cartoonish, obvious racism) we can't even agree that it's a problem.

I understand what you're trying to say and agree with a lot of it especially the last part. However I feel like the pendulum has swung too far to the point that comedians, and artists in general are second guessing themselves. We need people to be edgy and push the line when it comes to everyone from sex, race, religion, stereotypes, politics, whatever. I'm Latino but I'm also an artist and nothing is more frustrating than having to change something you're making because someone thinks it offensive.

Phoenix, that's how I see it. I tend to separate art especially comedy and satire from regular life.

 

[LCGeek]

My god it's like there is absolutely no knowledge of history...

If that were only the case, ignorance and spite make for bad bedfellows.

 

[akira28]

Yeah, that is true and it really has been kind of weird. I misread your post.

yeah, you've gotta be out of school for a while to lose the old habit.

 

[ivysaur12]

I understand what you're trying to say and agree with a lot of it especially the last part. However I feel like the pendulum has swung too far to the point that comedians, and artists in general are second guessing themselves. We need people to be edgy and push the line when it comes to everyone from sex, race, religion, stereotypes, politics, whatever. I'm Latino but I'm also an artist and nothing is more frustrating than having to change something you're making because someone thinks it offensive.

Phoenix, that's how I see it. I tend to separate art especially comedy and satire from regular life.

That being said, I don't think saying you're an artist frees you from legitimate criticism -- something like a 2 Broke Girls has been under fire since its inception about its depiction of Asian men as a racist stereotype (one of their main cast members is an Asian man). Watching the show, I can't help but agree -- it's the worst kind of punching down, and the character serves no purpose besides to be the butt of a joke about him being short and Asian. There isn't anything honest being said about the immigrant experience in America, and the only reason this character is Asian is to use as a crutch for jokes at the expense of stereotypes about his race.

In that sense, I think it's a fair criticism and shrugging it off as yet another win for the PC/SJW crowd would be foolish and reductive towards discussion how comedy should insect with race.

 

[Scrabble]

Judging a comedian for their jokes, is like judging an actor for the role they're in.

 

[Jakten]

I understand what you're trying to say and agree with a lot of it especially the last part. However I feel like the pendulum has swung too far to the point that comedians, and artists in general are second guessing themselves. We need people to be edgy and push the line when it comes to everyone from sex, race, religion, stereotypes, politics, whatever. I'm Latino but I'm also an artist and nothing is more frustrating than having to change something you're making because someone thinks it offensive.

Phoenix, that's how I see it. I tend to separate art especially comedy and satire from regular life.

As an artist it is important to know what it is you are saying with your work. Obviously there is a degree to which you have to judge for yourself but once you let your work out you have no control over how people view it. If people are offended its possible that you don't know enough about what you are trying to say so it's probably not anything of worth. If what you meant to say is "look how edgy I am" maybe you don't really have much to say at all. I agree that no subject should truly be out of question for exploration but if you don't understand what you your self are saying then why are you trying to say it in the first place. It's very important to know the effect of what you say.

For instance with comedy, if the punch line of your joke is shallow or perpetuates negative stereotypes then you should be criticized. If you want to joke about a touchy subject make sure you know damn well what you are saying. This is why Chris Rock can joke about racism and be successful but a white person will most likely fail spectacularly. Being a comedian or artist doesn't give you a free ride to be an asshole.

 

[gogosox82]

It's weird that this is the thing in that interview that prompted the thread. I believe that was also the only usage of the term "political correctness" in the entire interview, as well.

It's a historically loaded term, and was poisoned early in its life much like "Social Justice Warrior" has been poisoned now. Hopefully when we repeat history further on in the 21st century, we'll remix the dumb shit with a little more aplomb than that particular example.

Usually what happens is the phrase "Political Correctness" is used, and that's more often than not a signal for people who think life's gotten more unfair now that marginalized people aren't willing to stay marginalized for the sake of you having a cheap ha-ha at their expense.

And I used the word "cheap" there on purpose. There's a reason. What stand-ups do isn't cheap, usually. It's work. It's their way of life. Rock mentions having to workshop his jokes. He doesn't just fart them out at work, or burp them up on twitter and call it a day. He works on his shit, and like he says, so does EVERY OTHER STAND-UP HE KNOWS.

When those guys are taking subjects that can be touchy, and trying to figure out how to mine legitmate laughs from them, that's not cheap. That's not thoughtless. They're putting a ton of thought into their art, and hoping it helps give their career more fuel to continue on, keeping them paid, keeping them secure.

This is not really all that comparable to you feeling upset because you shit up a thread with the first "edgy" thing that popped into your ass and people called you out on the stink.

And that's usually what happens when discussions about comedy and "political correctness" pop up. Because it's not really about comedy, or political correctness. It's just another avenue for whiners to whine about how unfair it is that they don't get to be giant fucking assholes to less fortunate people without repercussion.

Great post. Basically sums up my thoughts as well.

 

[HoJu]

Judging a comedian for their jokes, is like judging an actor for the role they're in.

if the actor writes the story/dialogue...

 

[JCX]

I understand what you're trying to say and agree with a lot of it especially the last part. However I feel like the pendulum has swung too far to the point that comedians, and artists in general are second guessing themselves. We need people to be edgy and push the line when it comes to everyone from sex, race, religion, stereotypes, politics, whatever. I'm Latino but I'm also an artist and nothing is more frustrating than having to change something you're making because someone thinks it offensive.

Phoenix, that's how I see it. I tend to separate art especially comedy and satire from regular life.

But we still can push the envelope! I'm a comedian and I think the fact that the audience can and will call me out for a bad bit is exciting. It forces me to make sure my jokes are air tight, instead of relying on lazy, tired tropes, or to reexamine a topic to find a new viewpoint.

Whenever I write a joke, I try to thing of who/what the target is and if it's worth telling. I've written some bits that killed, but because they felt unfair to the target, I let them go. Still have a right to say them, but I also feel a need to be inclusive. You can still fine valuable art by considering both of those aspects.

 

[Sesuadra]

And that's usually what happens when discussions about comedy and "political correctness" pop up. Because it's not really about comedy, or political correctness. It's just another avenue for whiners to whine about how unfair it is that they don't get to be giant fucking assholes to less fortunate people without repercussion.

not really. I am not an asshole. But I like to play with stereotypes/clichés. My girlfriend is polish I'm german. I get stupid jokes about being german from her and she gets stupid jokes about her being polish from me.
It is just humour, we think stereotypes and clichés. are dump, so we use them to make jokes.

You know you can take power from things when you start making fun about them? If you do not take something serious.

 

[Rajang]

Fantastic interview, thanks for sharing.