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[Heckler456]

You mean they critique and give their opinions which you disagree with.

This is some fanboy garbage.

I'll never understand why people become so emotionally attached to games not even out yet. And anyone says anything bad about it is "bias" or they hate video games or are terrible at them.

Fuck off. People will feel differently than you will about things. Grow up and realise their opinions just opinions.

Same way some enjoy the "bad" controls in these games.

Speaking of emotionally attached...

 

[The Omega Man]

Those negatives are positives to me. I want this game more now, dat Ueada game feeling.

 

[Dargor]

I think the argument for it's a team ICO game and there's meaning behind the awkward controls is kind of bs... Inside has a child as a main protagonist, it makes it feel like a child but in no way does that game suffer from the controls... The controls are fluid, as is the animation. And that's an indie game from a ten person team... Not a giant studio that's had limitless man-hours poured into its game.

This game's development started x years ago, but they didn't continuously worked on it for x years.

 

[Cave Johnson]

I don’t know if this makes for a good game, but it did make for an interesting experience. The AI seems rather sophisticated, and Trico could very well be the most realistic creatures to appear in a video game. While that realism might wear on some players’ patience, it made the game more immediate. You are dealing with an animal and all that entails.

This, by far is what separates Team ICO from most AAA developers. Just like ICO and SOTC to defy gaming conventions, Uwda is once again allowing the medium to shine with new forms of interactivity.

 

[talkingood]

I must be missing something. Why does it invalidate the writer's opinion if all of Team ICO's previous games have played similarly? If the writer feels the game's controls are frustrating, pointing to historical precedent doesn't seem like any kind of justification. Still, the majority here seem to feel differently.

 

[Neuromancer]

Opinions are like assholes. I'm not sure what he expected considering this game was started a hundred years ago. I'm just happy were finally going to get to play it.

 

[travisbickle]

I thought "concern" was passé now, and we're on to being worried about "the optics" as the new way to get hits?

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Why is this nonsense still spread?

The game has not been in active development for 15 years.

It was put on hold, and returned to.

Who said it had?

The time frame alone shows they have had significant issues with the creation of the game. Be it lack of ideas, hardware problems, or whatever else.

 

[Newtype-001]

Polygon, ladies and gentlemen...

Id agree if the writer was the same one playing doom.

That thread was pretty funny tho.

 

[Nocturno999]

Polygon, ladies and gentlemen...

Took 5 pages. I'm disappointed.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I've been expecting this since it was reannounced, sadly.

Team Ico games are masterpieces, but they're also niche as fuck and deliberately clunky. This is not a game for 99%+ of players, it's just been built upto almost mythical status by its production problems.

 

[Heckler456]

I must be missing something. Why does it invalidate the writer's opinion if all of Team ICO's previous games have played similarly? If the writer feels the game's controls are frustrating, pointing to historical precedent doesn't seem like any kind of justification. Still, the majority here seem to feel differently.

Whether it's true or not, there is a definite difference when the controls are deliberately the way that they are. Unless they're absolutely non-functional, there's no rule saying that controls can't be the way that they are in Team ICO games.

 

[Loris146]

"Feels like a PS2 game" doesn't even make sense in my book, what's that supposed to mean?

There are PS2 games whose controls feels great and some are terrible, like any video game console i ever played.

They needed an "attractive" headline to gain some clicks. Feels like a PS2 game is perfect.

 

[LeleSocho]

So if a studio releases enough games with the same flaw they are beyond criticism?

No but if someone can't recognize a stylistic choice from a flaw perhaps his/hers opinion shouldn't be held highly.
That type of movements in the Ico series is sought-after and not an oversight, an obvious example is the moving animation of the main characters which in the whole series is never clean but floaty/wonky with limbs often flailing.

 

[Ludens]

Phil Kollar plays the Last Guardian at TGS and says it "feels like a PS2 game". He also says the gameplay loops seems solid, so it's a mixed reaction.



http://www.polygon.com/2016/9/15/12914554/last-guardian-gameplay-video-tgs-demo-hands-on

Well, Shadow of the Colossus did the same thing, or at least they tried something similar in the vanilla PS2 game and they failed (with success, imho) Bluepoint tried to fix that and the PS3 version is almost unplayable if you aim to do all time trials. I did and it was frustrating like hell because physics are fucked up and also Wander's grip sucks so much on PS3.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

No matter how TLG turns out, sadly it just won't be able to live up to the 10 year hype.

Saying that though, I still think it will be a good game, probably very old school like ICO and SotC but that might not do it any favours with reviewers in 2016. At this point I'm expecting a 7/10 game, good but not the best game ever, would love to be proved wrong though and unless its a complete broken mess, I'm still enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Polygon, ladies and gentlemen...

Baby's first FPS lol.

I must be missing something. Why does it invalidate the writer's opinion if all of Team ICO's previous games have played similarly? If the writer feels the game's controls are frustrating, pointing to historical precedent doesn't seem like any kind of justification. Still, the majority here seem to feel differently.

It doesn't. Some writers may get it, some won't. This is the beauty of having multiple sources to check when looking at reviews. For full disclosure, I don't like polygon in general, I think it's a shit site, but the guy is entitled to his opinion, there's no right and wrong in it.

 

[messiaen]

What about Inside makes the protagonist control like a kid? People, kids especially, are clumsy and many aren't well coordinated.

Have you played Inside? I would highly recommend you do if you haven't.

The controls feel a little heavier and slower than you first expect. There's also the pacing of his standard run. He is very clumsy while running, nearly falling or losing his balance when attempting a jump and when jumping from a high height his landing is very awkward and foreboding... Inside does an amazing job of making the character feel vulnerable, which is the feeling you'd want to give a child in a game like that and TLG, I would believe.

However; it does all of this while feeling and controlling like a game in the modern era and in fact, many praise the controls and animation in the game.

It should also be mentioned that Inside originally started development as a last gen title.

This game's development started x years ago, but they didn't continuously worked on it for x years.

Is there a source for this? I've been following this game's development pretty closely and over the years when Sony was asked about it they constantly said it was still in active development, which in turn is what led to the frustration that the game was a constant no-show at trade events.

 

[Servbot24]

I must be missing something. Why does it invalidate the writer's opinion if all of Team ICO's previous games have played similarly? If the writer feels the game's controls are frustrating, pointing to historical precedent doesn't seem like any kind of justification. Still, the majority here seem to feel differently.

If he believes Ico and SOTC were bad (or significantly flawed) games then I'm fine with him thinking TLG will be too. He should probably state that background in the preview though.

 

[black070]

It's telling that not only was this one preview singled out into its own thread, but also has five times the number of comments as the preview thread - doom and gloom gets hits.

 

[Calm Mind]

ico and sotc were PS2 games and they were great games.

For their time. They haven't exactly aged well.

 

[driver116]

Polygon, ladies and gentlemen...

 

[Kinyou]

Sounds like a Team Ico game. Controls are really the least of my worries. This game will rise and fall depending on if the relationship with the creature works.

 

[hobblygobbly]

The game seems to have a hard time determining what you actually want it to do from button presses alone. On several occasions, I tapped the jump button to reach a swinging rope, only to have the main character instead shift direction and climb on top of a nearby railing.

Like a real dog, Trico often does what it wants, refusing to listen to your commands until it's good and ready. On the one hand, there's a clever nod to real interactions with pets there that I appreciate. On the other, jamming on a button over and over to get Trico's attention isn't super compelling gameplay.

These complaints seem legitimate and it has nothing to do with the "signature" of their previous games. I never found the previous games to be frustrating to play - sure they weren't "snappy" and "tight" but had weight to movement. The above seems like frustrating controls in general.

Those complaints are legitimate and have nothing to do with the any sort of "signature" Team Ico design. Kotaku has mentioned similar as well.

 

[Toxi]

It's telling that not only was this one preview singled out into its own thread, but also has five times the number of comments as the preview thread - doom and gloom gets hits.

I think you mean DOOM and Polygon.

 

[Guymelef]

For their time. They haven't exactly aged well.

I'm not sure what that means.

 

[Servbot24]

For their time. They haven't exactly aged well.

Yes they have. The controls sucked then and they suck today. But that was never what made people excited about those games.

 

[wapplew]

It's telling that not only was this one preview singled out into its own thread, but also has five times the number of comments as the preview thread - doom and gloom gets hits.

Other media outlet have similar concern, they just don't use that as a headline.

 

[wild wild rice]

lmao

 

[cackhyena]

So people wanna invalidate the opinion as if the game that started a decade ago shouldn't have to update controls?

 

[dark10x]

I actually think weighty controls and animation priority worked well in previous Team ICO games as they, in turn, drew inspiration from titles like Another World, Flashback and Prince of Persia - other games which placed an emphasis on animation priority.

I think it works fine in some games and I'm hoping that it feels good here as well.

I expect this game to be quite the gem with a look and feel unlike anything else on the market. It comes from a time before engines and techniques were homogenized so it should really feel unique.

Yes they have. The controls sucked then and they suck today. But that was never what made people excited about those games.

I don't think the controls suck at all. How do you define that? The games FEEL great to control but differ greatly from your average title. I never found it difficult to perform actions in ICO. SotC had its tough moments but it worked in the face of what they were attempting. I expect Last Guardian to feel less frustrating than SotC to most since it doesn't focus on climbing moving objects. It'll probably play more like ICO.

 

[backflip10019]

I must be missing something. Why does it invalidate the writer's opinion if all of Team ICO's previous games have played similarly? If the writer feels the game's controls are frustrating, pointing to historical precedent doesn't seem like any kind of justification. Still, the majority here seem to feel differently.

Because people liked those games, and it's totally fine that there's no evolution across two generations of consoles with decades more experience and technology to create better controls.

 

[Neuromancer]

For their time. They haven't exactly aged well.

I played Ico a year or two ago and it's still fantastic in every way. I disagree completely.

 

[Auctopus]

A thread that actually has "concerned" in the title, destined for greatness.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

To be honest, my hype for the game deflated during the gameplay demo they had a few E3s ago. Just didn't look all that interesting mechanically. I'm hoping it turns out great in the end though.

 

[dark10x]

Because people liked those games, and it's totally fine that there's no evolution across two generations of consoles with decades more experience and technology to create better controls.

...but there is very clearly evolution. The animation is more refined and complex and the game is attempting pretty impressive physics interactions that we don't often see. The environment size and detail is also far beyond the scope of a PS2 game and even a PS3 game, if we're honest.

Just because the game chooses to focus on animation priority doesn't mean it's "outdated".

 

[Complicated]

Weighty controls and animations do not have to be tedious or cumbersome. Sounds like there are some issues which shouldn't be shocking for this game.

 

[Toxi]

For their time. They haven't exactly aged well.

The only part of Shadow of the Colossus that's not aged well is that atrocious framerate. Which isn't much different from loads of other classic games. N64 Zelda games anyone?

The controls are fine. Yes, swinging a sword is awkward; that's purely for aesthetic purposes, since you never have to swing a sword in the game, instead either using your bow or doing an imprecise stab while clinging. Yes, Argo will seem odd to control at first; that's because the horse actually has some AI and is meant to feel like controlling a real horse, doing things like slowing down and curving around as you approach ledges or walls without being urged forward.

The controls work as fine as they did when the game was released. It's not like game controls suddenly got better after 2005 and every game played that way back then, Shadow of the Colossus controls the way it does as a specific game design decision.

 

[Trojan]

You mean they critique and give their opinions which you disagree with.

This is some fanboy garbage.

I'll never understand why people become so emotionally attached to games not even out yet. And anyone says anything bad about it is "bias" or they hate video games or are terrible at them.

Fuck off. People will feel differently than you will about things. Grow up and realise their opinions just opinions.

Same way some enjoy the "bad" controls in these games.

Honestly man, I wish more people around here felt this way.

Unfortunately this stuff exists in every form of fandom. Whether it is fiction, sports or videogames and board games.

People get too emotionally invested in it and cannot see the forest for the trees.

Definitely keep calling the shitty immature behavior out, hopefully one day the people spewing the nonsense start to figure it out.

I'm with both of you. I want this game to be great because I loved the others, but it could be a pile of shit and those are the breaks. Having a 10 year dev cycle makes this whole thing worse too because some people have been literally waiting a decade for TLG.

 

[xrnzaaas]

So to summarize this thread...
Fans of ICO and Shadows of the Colossus don't understand why would someone not like a "classic" control scheme. The rest don't understand why The Last Guardian doesn't have smooth controls like most modern games.

 

[backflip10019]

...but there is very clearly evolution. The animation is more refined and complex and the game is attempting pretty impressive physics interactions that we don't often see. The environment size and detail is also far beyond the scope of a PS2 game and even a PS3 game, if we're honest.

Just because the game chooses to focus on animation priority doesn't mean it's "outdated".

I'm talking here about the controls. I'm not denying that it has impressive looks or that the physics are better. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous how people are dismissing the writer's concerns about the controls because they liked how Ico controlled over a decade ago. It's childish to think that way about anything.

 

[ShinAmano]

To be honest, my hype for the game deflated during the gameplay demo they had a few E3s ago. Just didn't look all that interesting mechanically. I'm hoping it turns out great in the end though.

My thoughts.

 

[10k]

Not surprised. Gameplay hasn't looked too hot. They should have just silently released this game at $40.

 

[Salty Rice]

After half-hour with Polygon articles, i´m concerned.

 

[darkwing]

I'm sure what he's saying is accurate, and I have my apprehensions about TLG too, but remember this is the guy who gave The Last of Us a 7.5.

7.5? yikes

 

[potatohead]

Only a Polygon dude would say this about a Team ICO game.

Just confirms I will enjoy it.

 

[Rezae]

Won't live up to the hype regardless, but the hype train should be driven with caution these days with Sony titles, IMO.

That aside, I have little interest in this title so far. We'll see how it turns out. I've gone through SotC and ICO (platinumed the remaster) multiple times and love Team ICO, but nothing I've seen from this game has excited me. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[ScOULaris]

I'm talking here about the controls. I'm not denying that it has impressive looks or that the physics are better. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous how people are dismissing the writer's concerns about the controls because they liked how Ico controlled over a decade ago. It's childish to think that way about anything.

They're dismissing it because some people hated Ico/SotC's controls, but most of us who liked the games had ZERO issues with them. So it stands to reason that the phenomenon is occurring again with TLG.

The way that Team Ico designs control systems around its characters is unique to them and maybe not for everyone, but we've had enough experience with them in the past to know that critiques of the controls are to be taken with a grain of salt. You can just watch the gameplay videos and see that it simply controls just like SotC, and plenty of people (myself included) love those controls and have no difficulty with them whatsoever.

 

[black070]

Not surprised. Gameplay hasn't looked too hot. They should have just silently released this game at $40.

With Ratchet & Clank finding massive success at that price point, they actually did have a basis for it - but then again it is a pretty apples and oranges comparison.. The Last Guardian is a much more niche, and possibly more expensive production, and the fact of the matter is, the target audience will happily pay $60 for it.

 

[Tain]

Maybe if the dude could more accurately pinpoint what he didn't like about the movement mechanics people would be more receptive.

Saying that it "feels awkward" and that the main character "lurches" doesn't sound far off from common complaints about "archaic" control schemes, so it doesn't surprise me that so many aren't putting much weight into his impressions.