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Polygon: Nintendo is already repeating the Wii U's mistakes with Switch
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
TalentAlwaysWins
Banned
The Wii appealed to people who didn't even play video games. They had the audience that has tablets and phones now for gaming. Are we really having this discussion about the Wii? We all know what happened.
The article is not "wrong" (it is actually quite wrong on a number of specific points, but I'll humor the author here) that Nintendo's messaging over the nitty gritty details when it comes to the OS and account system leaves something to be desired. Where it is wrong, completely so even, is that these are the mistakes that tanked the Wii U.
The problems with Wii U were, roughly in order of severity.
I'll tell you what nobody in the history of the mass market gave a shit about: the way the OS looked. If the writer of the article seriously thinks that's the major problem of the Wii U he's fucking delusional.
Now these other points, they're a fair game to see how well or poor the Switch stacks up to this. You'll find that the situation between Wii U and Switch is not at all the same, even though there is still room for improvement.
The problems with Wii U were, roughly in order of severity.
- Confusing name, what is a Wii U and how does it differ from the Wii
- Vision not clearly communicated, what is asymmetry and why would we want it
- Bad tooling for difficult architecture, 3rd party devs felt locked out of Nintendo secret sauce
- Nonexistent advertising
- Failure of Nintendo to grow their userbase preferences; coming off the Wii which was mostly fitness and party games, Nintendo released in the first year: a party game and a 2D platformer (november), a party game (january), a 2D platformer (June), a party game (June), an RTS (July), an unadvertised messy brawler (August), a remaster (October), party game (November) and fitness game (November). The market for the kind of games AAA devs make was completely absent. By the time Kart and Splatoon came out it was too late
- Obnoxious licensing and QA
- Price that stayed high
- A gadget that was old hat by the time it released
- A fisherprice controller
- Lack of robust friend system and partychat
- Problems with storage and digital content
I'll tell you what nobody in the history of the mass market gave a shit about: the way the OS looked. If the writer of the article seriously thinks that's the major problem of the Wii U he's fucking delusional.
Now these other points, they're a fair game to see how well or poor the Switch stacks up to this. You'll find that the situation between Wii U and Switch is not at all the same, even though there is still room for improvement.
Linkstrikesback
Member
I didn't mention the Wii. I questioned the logical fallacy of the concept of being in decline for X amount of time meant things won't change and they'll just get worse
This is just fucking stupid.
The only reason Nintendo games are so good is because:
A. They have a stable of developers they can afford to keep hired on year round and move between various teams as needed.
And
B. They have the fiscal and contractual freedom to develop, and even delay, games as long as necessary in order to polish them.
Say goodbye to both of those benefits if Nintendo stops being a platform holder. Say hello to only Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon forever.
I will never deny that the Switch launch is underwhelming and there remain some serious holes of information.
But I enjoyed the heck out of my WiiU, and I'm going to admit that as a multi-system user, I basically expect to mainly play first party games on the Switch just as I did on WiiU. So even if Nintendo drops the ball again, I still expect to get a lot of pleasure from the Switch.
But I enjoyed the heck out of my WiiU, and I'm going to admit that as a multi-system user, I basically expect to mainly play first party games on the Switch just as I did on WiiU. So even if Nintendo drops the ball again, I still expect to get a lot of pleasure from the Switch.
b00_thegh0st
Member
Do you really believe that's going to be the case?
And you're misinformed: OS has browsing capabilities, developers can use this.
Linkstrikesback
Member
You obviously meant the Wii though, come on. There's only been one point in time where Nintendo seemingly turned its home console business around from the decline. They'll get worse if they can't think of something radically different like the Wiimote was, and frankly, it doesn't seem to me that the Switch is.
well one of the major differences is that Nintendo has clearly communicated what the Switch is and there is no confusion as to whether or not this is a new console or an updated gamepad for their previous console. that alone is a major differentiator that cannot be understated.
TalentAlwaysWins
Banned
Considering they have been nothing but declining on their hardware releases since the N64 how is that fallacy? It's fact that they have been declining for generations. How is this going to be different? Obviously it's not out yet but with the supply constraints and it being available in other countries still is that supposed to instill confidence?
I hope not, but the OP mentions it so I was worried. It seeming to have a web applet that allows for hotel wifi would be great news.
RichiRamjag
Member
Confidence is not needed. The general consumer has confidence in everything. You see.... the general consumer is generally pretty general when it comes to general information. They don't care about such matters.
I'm being sarcastic btw
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
Considering Developers were given Switch Dev Kits last summer and Miyamoto stated we should be seeing them within a year, I expect E3 to be more about what third-party developers will be doing for Switch than concentrating on just Nintendo games.
Also, the marketing has been leagues better than the Wii U and Switch is a concept easily grasped and understood. Yes, when it comes to the online there are a lot of question marks, but Switch does not remind me at all of the Wii U.
Also, the marketing has been leagues better than the Wii U and Switch is a concept easily grasped and understood. Yes, when it comes to the online there are a lot of question marks, but Switch does not remind me at all of the Wii U.
Serenitynow
Member
Lol
Ah, you're looking for confirmation bias. Gotcha.
What I'm not seeing is what the differences are between the Wii U and Switch versions. Are there bonus levels/materials? What separates the two? Because as it stands, it just feels like Zelda, the 'big' release game for the Switch, is nothing special. More like a "let's port this to the new machine to make it look like we have a big first party game."
if the VC is drip feed releases again...I fear the worst.
not like im getting one with the insane price in Canada
Doesn't list how friends will work: true
Matchmaking: did you play Kart and Splatoon? Some of the easiest, most seamless matchmaking in the industry IMO, and no I'm not a Nintendo only gamer.
What can be done on the switch and what the app: er, that it actually does say. Not incredibly detailed, but the info is there.
We know online with Kart and Splatoon was pretty fantastic but also really barebones. Nintendo gave a number of bullet points what they're going to add, but the real experience, well we'll just have to wait and see. Should they have shown the real experience: yes, but it seems clear that it's not fully finished yet and some things are still going to change.
It feels like a complete moot point whether this slight unclarity will tank the system though. Especially when you compare how well Wii did next to Xbox 360.
There's really no proof to support this. Would I be any more right or write in saying:
A. How does that change by going third party? Their employee count is not that large.
B. Again, don't see why this would change. Their development process wouldn't be any different. As for software, Nintendo has already killed off many of their classic and niche series. Looking at the Switch, so far the lineup is almost entirely made up of entries in their most popular series...Hell it could just as easily be that by going third party and increased access to the variety of markets out there, we would be more likely to see an increased effort to release games in classic franchises rather than software that is meant to sell hardware.
JStein0222
Member
The answer to this is probably that it's portable. YMMV on how much that means to you
I mean obviously having more information as a consumer would be better than having less information, but I think it also partly boils down to Nintendo themselves waiting to announce full details until they themselves have all their answers organized and ready.
But that aside, this particular line...
...does this not seem like an odd leap in logic? Online has become increasingly important in the gaming landscape, I get it, but "no better litmus test?" It comes off sounding like this is the single biggest determinant of a console's success and I don't think I can buy that. Much worse went wrong with the Wii U than the way it handled online.
But that aside, this particular line...
...does this not seem like an odd leap in logic? Online has become increasingly important in the gaming landscape, I get it, but "no better litmus test?" It comes off sounding like this is the single biggest determinant of a console's success and I don't think I can buy that. Much worse went wrong with the Wii U than the way it handled online.
Lol.
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Miyamoto and Aonuma are already prepping up newer people and successor's in management. I don't think Nintendo relying heavily on nostalgia alone would've resulted in titles like Splatoon and ARMS.
As for brand loyalty, you could say the same for any other console hardware manufacturer.
RichiRamjag
Member
None of this is helpful information to me and I never said it would tank the system. I know you may be a Nintendo fan or whatever, but you're not telling me anything new and unless you've got a switch on hand, I don't need to hear the same points and have the same link to that site provided for the 50th time.
I'd like to know how I can play games with my kid should I have two switches. Can I even add him as a friend from the switch directly? Do I need an app? I'm not asking for anything crazy here and I'm annoyed as hell that people are acting like folks wanting to know is some crazy thing. If you don't have the direct answers to those questions with some visuals, then there's really no need to respond.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Of course no one ever knows what random things will catch on and sell well and find a new market.
They've definitely been on the decline with core console gamers for every generation, as other than the Wii ever console has sold less than the NES (and less than it's immediate predecessor). The Wii was a huge hit, but core gamers weren't the reason behind it (though they did buy it in probably higher number than other Nintendo consoles post NES).
They still haven't done anything to address that the core gamer market is dominated by western style games, and the few big Japanese AAA that appeal over here like Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS etc. So there's not reason to see that decline not continue.
So they can reverse sales trend again with Switch if it happens to expand the market, but it's unlikely to be hit with western core gamers as it just doesn't have the games they play, and is coming out mid generation when the one console folk are long since locked in to one of the competitors.
Lionel Richie
Member
It always amuses me when people portrait these huge multi billion companies as stupid, like they have these meetings in their huge multi billion headquarters and they have "nostalgia" written in a big multi billion whiteboard and everyone just nods their multi billionaire heads and go like yeah that's some good stuff.
reelbigtink
Member
The boo birds are out in full force today. Come on guys, try to enjoy the weekend. Can't we worry about online functionality when we actually know what's going on?
I'm really not a fan of the "Zelda instantly makes launch amazing" narrative that keeps getting tossed out. If you're excited for it, that's great for you, but not everyone is into Zelda. Calling out the launch line-ups of the PS4 and X1 doesn't really solve anything for anyone, it's okay that they all have bad starting selections. Well, not okay in the sense that it's a good thing, but okay as in "it is what it is". There's not a lot there, and not a lot coming over the next few months that tons of people will care about, but that's why we don't buy stuff at launch. "Yeah but Zelda" doesn't help anyone, and it doesn't make the criticism any less legitimate.
What do you mean by newer one?
I would say that all things considered (Mainly games line up considered tbh) the Switch launch has the ingredients for disaster at hand... but at this point I've learned better than to ever write Nintendo off no matter the scenario. Would not be surprised to see this thing fly off shelves as fast as Nintendo can make them for the rest of the year in spite of all the head scratching decisions that have been made surrounding it.
I think the problem is that we don't already know what's going on with less than 2 weeks until the console comes out.
I think the problem is that we don't already know what's going on with less than 2 weeks until the console comes out.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, it is very dismissive to think that's what they do.
They're just in a tough spot. The gaming market shifted westward and they failed to adapt and got left behind. They had a HUGE success with the Wii and DS, but that success was largely not core gamers and stuff like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Brain Age, Nintendogs unfortunately just furthered the "Nintendo is for the casuals and kiddos" image of their brand for many core gamers.
So now they're left trying to bounce back when their franchises, genres and art styles don't appeal to a large swatch of western core console gamers, and the casuals/family market,and a large portion of the portable market, have moved on to phones and tablets.
They aren't naively trying to capitalize on nostalgia. It's just their IP, genres and art styles are their strengths. They can't shift gears and just start pumping out exclusives that appeal to the CoD, Halo, Uncharted, Gears, GTA, AssCreed, Madden, FIFA, Forza, GT, God of War etc. crowd. That's not what they're about and they don't have strengths in those areas. They struggled with the transition to HD even with their more simplistic art designs. They aren't going to be easily able to make something like Horizon to Gears of War even if they wanted to and had put out powerful hardware.
So they're left hoping there's a big enough market that wants a console that's focused on their type of games and the Japanese exclusives that are similar in tone, art style etc. to justify their continuance as a hardware maker, while hoping to bring back some casuals with stuff like 1 2 Switch, Arms etc. Simple as that. They've openly said they aren't good at competing with Sony/MS for the market they target.
It's a hybrid portable device with some Nintendo games. That's their selling point at launch. If that's not enough for you, don't buy it at launch. They're not talkig about many details because their effectively treating this as a soft launch.
I think they've done a very good job driving that point home. Most people who know about the Switch get what it is. The Wii U didn't fail because Nintendo didn't release the exact hardware specs 2 weeks before launch. It failed because no one knew what it was.
I think they've done a very good job driving that point home. Most people who know about the Switch get what it is. The Wii U didn't fail because Nintendo didn't release the exact hardware specs 2 weeks before launch. It failed because no one knew what it was.
baxter2231
Member
I have been burnt to many times with Nintendo im gonna wait this one out, easy decision really.
Astral Dog
Member
I love Nintendo's mistakes
give me Bayonetta 3 and i will bite nintendo 
reelbigtink
Member
Sure, we should know more about online functionality but is the silence really enough to hit the panic button over? I'm not too worried about internet personally and figure they can patch a web applet in if there's not already one. Eh.
Yes because it's Polygons job to market Nintendos products for them.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
This I do agree with. While I'm not a fan of the hybrid concept (as a console/pc only gamer), and skeptical of it's mass appeal in the west, they have done a damn fine job of making clear what the Switch is and trying to make it appealing.
I'm very curious to see how well it sells. I'll most likely get one for the games eventually, but damn I'd love a cheaper console only version. With a gaming room/office I share with no one, no public transit usage and only traveling a few times a year I just don't have a use for portables anymore. Not to mention my aging eyes that hate small screens.
Aside from that I'm probably going to need a price drop, bundle with a game I want (official or retailer) or a retailer sell/$50 gift card with purchase etc. $300 is just too much for a third platform that I'd probably play 5 games a year max on, especially with it being underpowered as a console due ot the hybrid features (and motion control stuff) I don't need or want. But hey, maybe this will sell well and be the only sku and that's fine--as I said, I'll wait for a deal, bundle or both.
bumpkin
Member
They could solve all of this with a Direct this coming week, but I don't know if Nintendo are smart enough to realize that.
b00_thegh0st
Member
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
People are assuming that since it doesn't have a web browser at launch it won't work since many places open the browser to have you log in.
It may have some web applet that can pop up a window for those things though. But we don't know at that point.
MarineMountie
Member
When I don't need a phone app to chat online I will think about a Switch. Actually, I will probably just wait until Nintendo gives a shit at all about online play. If they did, we wouldn't need another device to do very basic things that other consoles have been doing for 2 full generations now. Pisses me off seeing how out of touch they are about gaming. Gaming is fun, relaxing, and SOCIAL. Nintendo skips over the social aspect every single generation.
The leaked dev documents indicated a web applet, right? So that's at least some indication in the right direction, at least.
I think the article makes some salient points in that Nintendo needs to be showing off the system's online functionality if they're going to be charging for it. I bought into the Wii U, but I can't justify repeating that mistake for a $300 package that comes with no online membership (aside from the beta), no games, and no SD card. Even the Wii U had a model that came with more internal storage and a game.
b00_thegh0st
Member
Yet they're the only company selling a system with 2 controllers right out of the box in 2017.
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