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S

Soulscribe

Member
I adore Royalan and every post he makes but I need to respond to this:

royalan said:
It's simple: Christina's not a hypocrite. Christina takes ownership.

Of course, Christina wears skimpy clothing (or no clothing at all), has posed for men's magazines and has plenty of songs about raunchy sex. But she owns this, and it is through this ownership that she flexes her own brand of power. Xtina is not the only one who does this. Britney owns it (or did). Gaga owns it. Madonna owns it. Rihanna owns it. Lana Del Rey owns it. Hell, fucking Ke$ha owns it. I think Xtina, above most, has made it a fundamental pillar of who she is, but I won't try to say she's the only one.

Beyonce is constantly in a state of wanting to be seen as a pillar of class, humility and propriety one week, and smearing her Illuminati-encrusted labia across my flat screen the next week. She has written songs and given interviews where she has prided herself on being a different type of female that doesn't have to stoop to peddling her goodies to get attention, all the while hoping the world doesn't realize that she has songs, videos and photo spreads where she does exactly that. well, sorry Beyonce, but that makes you a liar and a fake, and some of us aren't too far up your ass to call you out on it. If Beyonce wants to pop her pussy to the beat of an 808 to make her mark, so be it. Go right ahead and exercise your rights, girlfriend. But she does not get to claim to be a different type of star than the girls who pop their twats for coins and have the balls to be upfront about that. And she certainly doesn't have the wherewithal to bitch and moan about men defining sexy and the sexual objectification of women while directly contributing to that reality without being called out for being a hypocrite. That's what makes Beyonce different from the other pop stars. She tries to have her cake and eat it, too.

And these two twits have the nerve to talk about Beyonce and agency? This is the woman who had to invent a bullshit alter-ego to explain away her provocative stage acts. Because, you know, it couldn't be Beyonce. No, she's too innocent. It's Sasha Fierce.

And it's funny that you agree with the part of that article that I take the most issue with, because it asserts this bullshit idea that Beyonce should be given a pass for making her ass clap on my television screen because she's doing it "for her career." I'm sorry, but statements like those are just misguided and silly; and they're the kinds of statements that anti-feminists look to when they wanted to make the false claim that the modern feminist movement is less about being pro-women and more about being anti-men. It's obvious that Beyonce twerks for top 10 singles and to further her career. The part that I'm missing is where someone's putting a gun up to her fucking head and forcing her to do it.

Knock Knock Ding Dong Extra Extra Read All About It: Beyonce is making the choice to bill herself as a sex kitten and splay her breasts across magazine covers. No one's forcing her to do it and, more importantly, it's not as if this is the only avenue by which a talented female can become successful in this business. There are PLENTY of female entertainers who have achieved success in this industry without going nude at the sight of a flash bulb. Again, I reiterate that there is nothing wrong with being provocative, I for one think that there is GREAT power in it. But there's everything wrong with being provocative and trying to act like you're better than or that you're not contributing to "the problem" or that it's somehow "different" when you do it. And that's really what that "she does it for her career" bullshit is: people making up an excuse to continue to hold Beyonce up on a pedestal and claim that she's "classy" and different from all the Ke$ha's of the world when, really, she's exactly the same. Oh, poor Beyonce. She has to be super sexy and skanky to further her career in the male-dominated industry. She's really not like this, she just has to do these things to get ahead. Ch...please
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What constitutes "owning it" in the first place? Is it walking around a Walmart in the same skimpy clothes as your videos? Is it constantly reminding the press and your fans that you love sex and slathering your pooch all over a hardwood floor set?

Or is "owning it" simply the fact that they're DOING it in the first place? Beyonce owns it by actually being skimpy in her videos. It's not like her videos are off the record or meant to be private. Those videos are blasted all over the internet, viewed by millions, and performed by her in similar fashion on stages around the world. That's enough "owning it" to me for me to see that all those women take ownership of their skimpiness well enough.

Insulting Beyonce for carrying herself with dignity even though she's also showed her flirty, dirty side is more of a compliment than an insult. Actually, it IS a compliment, and it's an insult to Christina, and anybody else that you're insinuating are unable to distance their dirty side from their demure, normative, approachable side. Every person has those two sides, and I absolutely appreciate Beyonce for carrying herself with a certain level of class that reminds us that she isn't just a dirty dry-clit whore 24 hours a day. She's a regular woman who likes to be the sexual center of attention one day and an admirable, sweet-seeming woman the next.

And let's not throw out accusations of hypocrisy when Christina Aguilera, of all people, is the most guilty of blaring career inconsistencies in this last decade. Carrying yourself both as a "progressive" voice of the people while simultaneously exuding yourself as a stuck up cunt all the time is a way bigger crime than someone who leaves her sultriness for when the time allows. One of the most cringe-worthy things about Christina Aguilera (out of countless others to choose from, sorry) is that she thinks she can get away with preaching for equality and free expression while also being so obscenely unlikable, rude, and career-lazy that her entire agenda is nullified, and nobody takes her seriously because of it. Beyonce is passionate about social issues just like Christina is, except people take her a bit more seriously because outside of the sexualized videos there is still a woman who has enough passion and sense to know that there's a time and place for being sultry. It's called being a normal person. And she isn't even making claims of being holier-than-thou in the first place! She just doesn't dress like a Chlamydia monster at an inauguration ceremony. If you want people to see you for more than just a giant pair of breasts, then you need to take advantage of your versatility. And it's a damn good thing that she's versatile.

It seems like you're insulting Beyonce because she's not being one-dimensional enough.
 
B

Bladenic

Member
Marius_ said:
"Don't you worry, don't you worry, child.
See heaven's got a plan for you.
Don't you worry, don't you worry now."
Yeah!

WUB WUB WUB WUB
ib1BTZQuy0SDN8.gif
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omg yas stan. So sad they're breaking up, their songs always slay.

botty said:
By the way, I have something to ask you later. Can't do it on gaf, though. Maybe when you get the chance we can go to your plug room.
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pretty sure that room doesn't exist but i can make another lol
 
L

Leona Lewis

Banned
Soulscribe said:
I adore Royalan and every post he makes but I need to respond to this:

What constitutes "owning it" in the first place? Is it walking around a Walmart in the same skimpy clothes as your videos? Is it constantly reminding the press and your fans that you love sex and slathering your pooch all over a hardwood floor set?

Or is "owning it" simply the fact that they're DOING it in the first place? Beyonce owns it by actually being skimpy in her videos. It's not like her videos are off the record or meant to be private. Those videos are blasted all over the internet, viewed by millions, and performed by her in similar fashion on stages around the world. That's enough "owning it" to me for me to see that all those women take ownership of their skimpiness well enough.

Insulting Beyonce for carrying herself with dignity even though she's also showed her flirty, dirty side is more of a compliment than an insult. Actually, it IS a compliment, and it's an insult to Christina, and anybody else that you're insinuating are unable to distance their dirty side from their demure, normative, approachable side. Every person has those two sides, and I absolutely appreciate Beyonce for carrying herself with a certain level of class that reminds us that she isn't just a dirty dry-clit whore 24 hours a day. She's a regular woman who likes to be the sexual center of attention one day and an admirable, sweet-seeming woman the next.

And let's not throw out accusations of hypocrisy when Christina Aguilera, of all people, is the most guilty of blaring career inconsistencies in this last decade. Carrying yourself both as a "progressive" voice of the people while simultaneously exuding yourself as a stuck up cunt all the time is a way bigger crime than someone who leaves her sultriness for when the time allows. One of the most cringe-worthy things about Christina Aguilera (out of countless others to choose from, sorry) is that she thinks she can get away with preaching for equality and free expression while also being so obscenely unlikable, rude, and career-lazy that her entire agenda is nullified, and nobody takes her seriously because of it. Beyonce is passionate about social issues just like Christina is, except people take her a bit more seriously because outside of the sexualized videos there is still a woman who has enough passion and sense to know that there's a time and place for being sultry. It's called being a normal person. And she isn't even making claims of being holier-than-thou in the first place! She just doesn't dress like a Chlamydia monster at an inauguration ceremony. If you want people to see you for more than just a giant pair of breasts, then you need to take advantage of your versatility. And it's a damn good thing that she's versatile.

It seems like you're insulting Beyonce because she's not being one-dimensional enough.
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This...is everything I've wanted to say to Roy about this whole Beyonce thing. Beyonce's a terrible role model, but her sexuality has nothing to do with it.
 
K

Kyon

Banned
Marius_ said:
The already iconic and legendary Scream and Shout just wont let up

3 will.i.am - Scream & Shout (feat. Britney Spears) 0.6875
4 Justin Timberlake - Suit & Tie (feat. JAY Z) 0.6562

the fall just keeps coming

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SCREAMING.

Not it somehow still steady in the top 5. With 0 promo
 
K

Koodo

Banned
Marius_ said:
justkillmenowmsuze.png



thanks to the already iconic and legendary Scream and Shout, Will.i.am is probably heavily involved with Brits new album


you can thank the Kyons of the world for this
iyvM96Xlp0VaW.gif
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Shit.i.am better channel his Elephunk and Monkey Business self or the cunt will see the end of his days for fucking up a Britney album.

I trust the Holy Spearit will bring out the best in him. Big Fat Bass is the best song it has produced in years.
lol
 
R

royalan

Member
Soulscribe said:
What constitutes "owning it" in the first place? Is it walking around a Walmart in the same skimpy clothes as your videos? Is it constantly reminding the press and your fans that you love sex and slathering your pooch all over a hardwood floor set?
Click to expand...

Not at all. If that were the case many of the women that I described as "owning it" wouldn't be. To mean "owning it" implies a level of awareness that I just don't see in Beyonce. Not when she's bemoaning the harsh realities of women being expected to appear sexually available for men's enjoyment...while contributing to that very reality.


Or is "owning it" simply the fact that they're DOING it in the first place? Beyonce owns it by actually being skimpy in her videos. It's not like her videos are off the record or meant to be private. Those videos are blasted all over the internet, viewed by millions, and performed by her in similar fashion on stages around the world. That's enough "owning it" to me for me to see that all those women take ownership of their skimpiness well enough.

Insulting Beyonce for carrying herself with dignity even though she's also showed her flirty, dirty side is more of a compliment than an insult. Actually, it IS a compliment, and it's an insult to Christina, and anybody else that you're insinuating are unable to distance their dirty side from their demure, normative, approachable side. Every person has those two sides, and I absolutely appreciate Beyonce for carrying herself with a certain level of class that reminds us that she isn't just a dirty dry-clit whore 24 hours a day. She's a regular woman who likes to be the sexual center of attention one day and an admirable, sweet-seeming woman the next.
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I'm sorry sis, but no. I'm missing the part of this that is mutually exclusive to Beyonce. Beyonce isn't the only pop star who turns her sexy off when she's not "working." Pretty much EVERY star (except Gaga) reverts to "regular woman" when the curtain comes down. Soul-sis, you're displaying a lack of awareness of other celebrities here, and I know that isn't the case.

Christina:
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Britney:
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Rihanna:
mZ9W7TT.jpgp
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Madonna:
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The list goes on and fucking on.

In short: No, Beyonce is not special. She deserves no pat on the fucking back because she's not walking down the street in her Freekum Dress. NOBODY IS. But she deserves all the derision in the world when she performs songs and gives interviews where she subliminally attacks other women for reveling in their sexuality, and then puts out coochie-coated drivel like Videophone. She deserves to be questioned on a personal level when she bitches about sexual objectification in a magazine where she's profiting from objectifying herself. One could argue that she's taking agency and flexing control over her own image and brand, and sure that would be true. But this doesn't grant a pass to hypocrisy. At least the other girls demonstrate through their lives and careers that you can wear many hats and be proud of them all. Few other pop stars are flaunting their goodies while attacking other women for doing the same and/or implying they're somehow above it all. Other girls demonstrate that you can be demure AND be sexy and that you shouldn't have to hide any of it. Beyonce attempts to do the same while dousing her raunchier moments in a nice coat of shame. It's ok to be sexy, as long as you have an excuse for it. In Beyonce's case, her career is the excuse.

And let's not throw out accusations of hypocrisy when Christina Aguilera, of all people, is the most guilty of blaring career inconsistencies in this last decade. Carrying yourself both as a "progressive" voice of the people while simultaneously exuding yourself as a stuck up cunt all the time is a way bigger crime than someone who leaves her sultriness for when the time allows. One of the most cringe-worthy things about Christina Aguilera (out of countless others to choose from, sorry) is that she thinks she can get away with preaching for equality and free expression while also being so obscenely unlikable, rude, and career-lazy that her entire agenda is nullified, and nobody takes her seriously because of it. Beyonce is passionate about social issues just like Christina is, except people take her a bit more seriously because outside of the sexualized videos there is still a woman who has enough passion and sense to know that there's a time and place for being sultry. It's called being a normal person. And she isn't even making claims of being holier-than-thou in the first place! She just doesn't dress like a Chlamydia monster at an inauguration ceremony. If you want people to see you for more than just a giant pair of breasts, then you need to take advantage of your versatility. And it's a damn good thing that she's versatile.
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First off, I would say it's completely off-base that nobody takes Christina seriously for her messages:

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Secondly, I don't see how the current state of Christina's career or how subjectively "likable" she is has any relevance to this discussion or is in any way indicative of inconsistencies or contradictions in Christina's message. Just because her career is flopping now doesn't derail her message or her image, nor does it contradict what she's stood for: sexual freedom and independence. If anything, her flopping reinforces her message, because time and time again she's demonstrated a determination to live her life and navigate her career on her terms and under her own power no matter what. There is complete consistency there. Unlike Beyonce, who'll endorse whoever and take off whatever to get a fucking check and to nab a fucking cover, even if it directly contradicts whatever she was doing or saying just last week. An embarrassment.
 
K

Koodo

Banned
I keep seeing people claim Beyoncé has derided other women for their sexuality, but that statement never comes with a citation.
777ff663.gif
 
K

Kyon

Banned
Who cares what ridiculous hypocritical and thieveous act Beyondmywaytojailforstealing is committing?

Not that serious girls.
 
R

royalan

Member
Koodo said:
Is that it? Most of those seem like ridiculous reaching.

Here I was thinking I would get some hot tea to use against her for Album 5. Oh well.
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Ridiculous reaching? Call it whatever you want. But when Beyonce makes slut-shaming anthems and positions herself as being on higher moral plane for doing basically the same things, I call it tea. She when she displays complete lack of self-awareness like she did in that GQ article, I consider it tea.
 
S

Satch

Banned
royalan said:
Ridiculous reaching? Call it whatever you want. But when Beyonce makes slut-shaming anthems and positions herself as being on higher moral plane for doing basically the same things, I call it tea. She when she displays complete lack of self-awareness like she did in that GQ article, I consider it tea.
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i cant wait for your essay on Taylor Swift that will highlight her former hit single "You Belong With Me" celebrating the anti-feminine woman in direct opposition to femininity and her struggle with the nebulous concept of the FRIEND ZONE and how all of that pertains to her life and her influence on pop culture
iiMCJMtWo3lC.gif



Crispychickenfreshlettucethreecheesesranchdressingtina Wrappedupinatastyflowertortillalera's stans stay trying it
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
royalan said:
Not at all. If that were the case many of the women that I described as "owning it" wouldn't be. To mean "owning it" implies a level of awareness that I just don't see in Beyonce. Not when she's bemoaning the harsh realities of women being expected to appear sexually available for men's enjoyment...while contributing to that very reality.

I'm sorry sis, but no. I'm missing the part of this that is mutually exclusive to Beyonce. Beyonce isn't the only pop star who turns her sexy off when she's not "working." Pretty much EVERY star (except Gaga) reverts to "regular woman" when the curtain comes down. Soul-sis, you're displaying a lack of awareness of other celebrities here, and I know that isn't the case.

The list goes on and fucking on.

In short: No, Beyonce is not special. She deserves no pat on the fucking back because she's not walking down the street in her Freekum Dress. NOBODY IS. But she deserves all the derision in the world when she performs songs and gives interviews where she subliminally attacks other women for reveling in their sexuality, and then puts out coochie-coated drivel like Videophone. She deserves to be questioned on a personal level when she bitches about sexual objectification in a magazine where she's profiting from objectifying herself. One could argue that she's taking agency and flexing control over her own image and brand, and sure that would be true. But this doesn't grant a pass to hypocrisy. At least the other girls demonstrate through their lives and careers that you can wear many hats and be proud of them all. Few other pop stars are flaunting their goodies while attacking other women for doing the same and/or implying they're somehow above it all. Other girls demonstrate that you can be demure AND be sexy and that you shouldn't have to hide any of it. Beyonce attempts to do the same while dousing her raunchier moments in a nice coat of shame. It's ok to be sexy, as long as you have an excuse for it. In Beyonce's case, her career is the excuse.
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If we're talking about the GQ situation specifically and exclusively, then yes, Beyonce of course contradicted herself. Complaining that men define what's sexy and then posing in shredded sports gear and skimpy panties on the same page is a blaring contradiction, and that's something that she realizes now. But I think it's important to take a few steps back and evaluate this from a pragmatic standpoint, because afterall there's no real way to draw the proper criticism of someone unless we evaluate the circumstances surrounding HOW we were introduced to this contradiction in the first place.

I think this article perfectly encapsulates how I feel about Beyonce's GQ thing as well as feminism in pop culture (because at the end of the day, that's exactly what this is about):

independent.co.uk said:
If a superpower of a woman, who has never been known for feminist discourse and has no need to engage with it as long as she lives, chooses to, and is met with scepticism and harshness, why bother? Who are we, to hold it against Beyoncé, that she was not an unwavering feminist in 1996 and make it an inhospitable environment to her in 2013? Who are white middle class feminists to condemn Beyonce’s discussion of the pay gap (bigger for ethnic minority women I might add), to tell her she isn’t feminist enough? She contradicts herself because she is a woman, on a journey, living in a system designed to make women feel that they mustn’t question, that they have to be either, or; Madonna or whore, Angela Davis or Rihanna. There is a middle-ground full of uncertainty and I congratulate Beyoncé for stepping into it.

I contradict myself. You do too. But we get to do it in private. Thinking we have to be all or nothing is another tool of the patriarchy, used to discredit women’s experience and scare them from feminism. I don’t shave my legs but I pluck my eyebrows. That’s a contradiction of sorts, and one I’m happy to live with for now. But it is used to dismiss me. “Unless you’re doing The Kahlo, you’re not doing anything”. I don’t know what’s in my future, how far I will be comfortable challenging the confines of what is acceptable in our society. And neither does Beyoncé. But what I do know is that we need to be kind, open and non-judgemental if we want the message to spread.

Sometimes we contradict ourselves publicly too. Recently, Anne Hathaway has been lauded for her feminism, and rightly so! Her recent takedown of a talk-show host who tried to open an interview about her latest film with a question about her vagina is impeccable: “it kinda made me sad, on two accounts… I was very sad that we live in an age where someone takes a picture of another person in a vulnerable moment and rather than delete it, and do the decent thing, sells it. And I’m sorry that we live in a culture that commodifies sexuality of unwilling participants, which brings us back to Les Mis”.

Hathaway is a heroine. Case closed. No mention of the fact that she has posed nude to advertise her films. No umming and erring. Is this snobbery? She works in film, serious, lasting, dignified film - not the judge-central world of pop music of which everyone feels entitled to a piece. And let’s face it. She knows her shit. She’s also a beautiful white woman. An acceptable, non-threatening, white woman.

The race dimension of the disparity in the way these events have been interpreted is another article, but the fact Beyoncé is a black woman must not be side-stepped. In their criticism of Beyoncé, people have assumed she has brought nothing to feminism. But it is clearer than day that she brings something important to the lives of millions of women, millions of black women. She might not quote Bell Hooks in interviews, but as one of the biggest icons of the 21st century, she sure has some stuff to say. She has long been a champion of The Independent Woman, especially where finances are concerned, and if that’s how she understands and practices feminism it is not our place to outright condemn her. Remember, this interview comes shortly after she ended her business relationship with her father and gave birth to a daughter.

If we are so intent on building an accessible, inclusive feminism, why don’t we focus on what Beyoncé has to offer, rather than her all-too-obvious failings? For the sake of feminism? And all the women who have been inspired by her? I am one of those women.

When I look at the GQ spread, I do not see tits and arse. I see a formidable singer, performer and athlete who nursed me through my teens, inspired me to sing and dance, strut and survive. I see a woman who belonged to me and the black and Asian girls I went to school with, a woman with skin our colour and thighs we could relate to. I see a club where white people were the guests – a precious space in our homogenous media. I see the first woman in 20 years to headline Glastonbury. In Beyonce’s contradiction I see hope and progress. In the backlash I see negativity and narrow-mindedness. Next time, let’s look a little deeper.
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Honestly, her contradiction here is something that EVERY woman in Hollywood has committed at some point or another because this is unfortunately the natural gender normal. Accusing Beyonce for something that your fave, and everyone's faves here have done at some point or another is just as hypocritical as Beyonce's interview here seems to be. It's an unfortunate circumstance that higher profile women have to take the fall for patriarchal inconsistencies that have existed well before them, and will continue to exist well after they're dead and gone. In Beyonce's case, you have chosen to single her out, as if what she's saying and then posing for is not something that's existed in MILLIONS OF MAGAZINE ISSUES for decades upon decades.

I suppose it's a testament to her ability to grab attention and her astronomical celebrity, that she somehow became the sole target to your attacks. You after all have a loaded distaste for her that goes beyond an inconsistency that materialized out of patriarchal malice, but please do not ignore the fact that what you're complaining about is in the genetic CORE of the feminist struggle and is something that we will be privy to forever. It's irreparable damage unfortunately. But feel free to blame a lifetime of accumulated feminist frustration and inconsistency on Beyonce Gisele Knowles.

As if Christina Aguilera and Rihanna have never fallen victim to ubiquitous, sexualized expectations of women in their outfits and demeanor, or countered accusations of catering to the status quo by calling it "free expression." Absolute bullshit. They're just as much part of the gender construct. The only difference is that Beyonce at least seems to make the ATTEMPT to offer a versatile, respectable presentation of herself to the world because she realized that with all of her power, celebrity and wealth, she could still offer the opportunity to inspire. She's playing as noble a part as someone in her position ever could, and that's something I completely respect.


First off, I would say it's completely off-base that nobody takes Christina seriously for her messages:


Secondly, I don't see how the current state of Christina's career or how subjectively "likable" she is has any relevance to this discussion or is in any way indicative of inconsistencies or contradictions in Christina's message. Just because her career is flopping now doesn't derail her message or her image, nor does it contradict what she's stood for: sexual freedom and independence. If anything, her flopping reinforces her message, because time and time again she's demonstrated a determination to live her life and navigate her career on her terms and under her own power no matter what. There is complete consistency there. Unlike Beyonce, who'll endorse whoever and take off whatever to get a fucking check and to nab a fucking cover, even if it directly contradicts whatever she was doing or saying just last week. An embarrassment.
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She is just as inconsistent as any woman in the public eye ever was and will be. And I suppose if Christina had the appeal, likability or eye-for-success to have the opportunity to speak on feminism to open ears then she wouldn't hesitate to do so. In fact, if Christina was offered the potential to drive her career on a trajectory that would get her mainstream success and a self-actualized life, then yes, she would do it. Everyone would. Don't blame her inability to inspire or engage an audience on her "doing her own thing." I still see Christina as someone who's based her career hopes on exactly the kind of success that Beyonce's found, but her lack of vision of career-sharpness butchered her chances. Her absolute turd of a personality and the way she publicly composes herself puts a blatant stop-gap in her potential to be inspiring. At the end of the day however, nobody discussed in here is as successful as Beyonce, and thus, nobody will take as hard as fall for something that everyone else is doing every single fucking day. At the very least give Beyonce credit for trying to step in it and make a more versatile name for herself out of her acclaimed stardom. We could sit and wonder what Christina would have said if she was in the same situation, but sadly she was not invited to the photo shoot.
 
A

Artemisia

Banned
Satch said:
i cant wait for your essay on Taylor Swift that will highlight her former hit single "You Belong With Me" celebrating the anti-feminine woman in direct opposition to femininity and her struggle with the nebulous concept of the FRIEND ZONE and how all of that pertains to her life and her influence on pop culture
iiMCJMtWo3lC.gif
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let's not talk about that

G1gOY.gif
 
K

Koodo

Banned
The lyrics to Nasty Girl seem to reference hoodrats who degrade themselves to the point of being indistinguishable from prostitutes rather than women like Miss Piggy and their Stripped imagery. Beyoncé (or Xsphincta, for that matter) are not actual whores, so it seems dubious at best to claim Beyoncé is on the same level as the type of person being written about in the song.

Granted, the lyrics are unfortunately worded harsh enough to put the song in an uncomfortable position between holier than thou and girl don't fuck up, when it should be squarely in the latter; but I would chalk this up to Beyoncé's songwriters' ineptitude rather than bad faith.

Perhaps if Squints had written those lyrics there would be a good case for hypocrisy.
 
R

royalan

Member
Honestly, her contradiction here is something that EVERY woman in Hollywood has committed at some point or another because this is unfortunately the natural gender normal. Accusing Beyonce for something that your fave, and everyone's faves here have done at some point or another is just as hypocritical as Beyonce's interview here seems to be. It's an unfortunate circumstance that higher profile women have to take the fall for patriarchal inconsistencies that have existed well before them, and will continue to exist well after they're dead and gone. In Beyonce's case, you have chosen to single her out, as if what she's saying and then posing for is not something that's existed in MILLIONS OF MAGAZINE ISSUES for decades upon decades.

I suppose it's a testament to her ability to grab attention and her astronomical celebrity, that she somehow became the sole target to your attacks. You after all have a loaded distaste for her that goes beyond an inconsistency that materialized out of patriarchal malice, but please do not ignore the fact that what you're complaining about is in the genetic CORE of the feminist struggle and is something that we will be privy to forever. It's irreparable damage unfortunately. But feel free to blame a lifetime of accumulated feminist frustration and inconsistency on Beyonce Gisele Knowles.

As if Christina Aguilera and Rihanna have never fallen victim to ubiquitous, sexualized expectations of women in their outfits and demeanor, or countered accusations of catering to the status quo by calling it "free expression." Absolute bullshit. They're just as much part of the gender construct.
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I completely disagree with your assertion that accusing Beyonce of hypocrisy is an argument rooted in the feminist struggle and not just calling her out on being an opportunistic fraud. If that were the case I wouldn’t be praising women who have gotten just as raunchy as Beyonce (or even raunchier). I think you’re the one trying to make this a bigger case than it is. I also question the continued implication that cultivating a sexual image is something Beyonce had to do to achieve success in her field. It ignores the many women in the entertainment industry who have achieved success without sexing it up.

Claiming that Beyonce has been dishonest in the same way that everyone has been completely disregards my last post, where my exact position was that Beyonce is one of the few pop stars who has dabbled in these same realities as other pop stars without nearly the same amount of accountability and ownership. Girls like Christina and Rihanna navigate the realities of a male-influenced industry with awareness and ownership, and it is through this that they exercise their power. Beyonce wants you to believe she’s above popping her pussy…while popping her pussy.
The only difference is that Beyonce at least seems to make the ATTEMPT to offer a versatile, respectable presentation of herself to the world because she realized that with all of her power, celebrity and wealth, she could still offer the opportunity to inspire. She's playing as noble a part as someone in her position ever could, and that's something I completely respect.
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Again, I fail to see how this is a behavior mutually exclusive to Beyonce. Beyonce gets no credit for being “versatile.” She is by far not the only female celebrity who seeks to inspire and who offers up an example of the multifaceted female who can be sexy and completely demure and in either case socially inspiring:
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Other girls are just a lot more upfront about it than she is.
She is just as inconsistent as any woman in the public eye ever was and will be. And I suppose if Christina had the appeal, likability or eye-for-success to have the opportunity to speak on feminism to open ears then she wouldn't hesitate to do so. In fact, if Christina was offered the potential to drive her career on a trajectory that would get her mainstream success and a self-actualized life, then yes, she would do it. Everyone would. Don't blame her inability to inspire or engage an audience on her "doing her own thing." I still see Christina as someone who's based her career hopes on exactly the kind of success that Beyonce's found, but her lack of vision of career-sharpness butchered her chances. Her absolute turd of a personality and the way she publicly composes herself puts a blatant stop-gap in her potential to be inspiring. At the end of the day however, nobody discussed in here is as successful as Beyonce, and thus, nobody will take as hard as fall for something that everyone else is doing every single fucking day. At the very least give Beyonce credit for trying to step in it and make a more versatile name for herself out of her acclaimed stardom. We could sit and wonder what Christina would have said if she was in the same situation, but sadly she was not invited to the photo shoot.
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This is all speculative and baseless. Christina could have made even more of an impact if she had only bla bla bla. The level of Christina’s success, appeal, and likability has nothing to do with anything. It’s about what she’s done with the level of success and appeal she has attained (which is still formidable). And she’s done a lot. She’s been recognized for a lot. She’s been honored for a lot. It seems like what you’re arguing here is that Christina ought to be like Beyonce and compromise herself a bit more for the sake of being able to later inspire a bigger audience, and ain’t that just a damn shame?

The lyrics to Nasty Girl seem to reference hoodrats who degrade themselves to the point of being indistinguishable from prostitutes rather than women like Miss Piggy and their Stripped imagery. Beyoncé (or Xsphincta, for that matter) are not actual whores, so it seems dubious at best to claim Beyoncé is on the same level as the type of person being written about in the song.

Granted, the lyrics are unfortunately worded harsh enough to put the song in an uncomfortable position between holier than thou and girl don't fuck up, when it should be squarely in the latter; but I would chalk this up to Beyoncé's songwriters' ineptitude rather than bad faith.
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I would agree with this if the lyrics to "Nasty Girl" weren't so rooted in the appearance of the hoodrat in question. In the context of the song what "Nasty" is actually doing is almost irrelevant. It's about what she looks like she's doing. What is implied by her looks and appearance.

On another note:

Destiny’s Child star Beyonce Knowles tells The Sun despite her sexy stage acts, she draws the line at sharing a live girl-on-girl kisses like Madonna and Britney Spears did. “I have standards. There are things I will not do,” she said. “I always carry myself like a lady. I don’t feel like I ever do anything raunchy. Maybe people here have a different meaning of the word raunchy, but I’m not disrespectful or dirty or nasty. The movements to ‘Crazy In Love’ were inspired by a traditional African dance – I don’t think there’s anything TOO sexy about it. It’s entertainment and I believe God is OK with that. I honestly believe He wants people to celebrate their bodies, as long as you don’t compromise your Christianity in the process.”
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If this image isn't clear enough, it's a picture of Beyonce performing Video Phone, during which she lifts up her leg while a male dancer simulates taking a picture of her vaginal lips with a camera phone. Hmmm...I wonder what African tribe that dance is from...
 
D

Dr. Malik

FlatAss_
Has minus disabled the option of going into other people's folders, selecting some items and saving them in one of your folders, where in the end the items say "via _____ "


It aint working for me
i0ha5Lkznj5Qx.gif
 
Z

zankara

Member
royalan said:
On another note:

"Destiny’s Child star Beyonce Knowles tells The Sun despite her sexy stage acts, she draws the line at sharing a live girl-on-girl kisses like Madonna and Britney Spears did. “I have standards. There are things I will not do,” she said. “I always carry myself like a lady. I don’t feel like I ever do anything raunchy. Maybe people here have a different meaning of the word raunchy, but I’m not disrespectful or dirty or nasty. The movements to ‘Crazy In Love’ were inspired by a traditional African dance – I don’t think there’s anything TOO sexy about it. It’s entertainment and I believe God is OK with that. I honestly believe He wants people to celebrate their bodies, as long as you don’t compromise your Christianity in the process.”

GlzQ5.png

If this image isn't clear enough, it's a picture of Beyonce performing Video Phone, during which she lifts up her leg while a male dancer simulates taking a picture of her vaginal lips with a camera phone. Hmmm...I wonder what African tribe that dance is from...
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That article is TEN years old. People change.
 
D

Dr. Malik

FlatAss_
Koodo said:
This would be a pressing matter for you.

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ch.. I want some of these gifs from people who have their shit unorganized and its a hassle to search for the item at hand, I could just reupload them but instead it would be nice for minus to trace back the item back to its original uploader like it use it, aka "via _____"

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M

Mumei

Member
Soulscribe said:
But I think it's important to take a few steps back and evaluate this from a pragmatic standpoint, because afterall there's no real way to draw the proper criticism of someone unless we evaluate the circumstances surrounding HOW we were introduced to this contradiction in the first place.
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You mean it is possible that people make compromises with structural realities, that this situation is more complex than "She's a hypocrite!", that it is possible to make a structural critique of beauty standards even while participating in them through the sort of compromises that every female star that anyone is interested in seeing like that engages in and that this does not make you Beyoncétan?

Why, I never.
 
R

royalan

Member
Mumei said:
You mean it is possible that people make compromises with structural realities, that this situation is more complex than "She's a hypocrite!", that it is possible to make a structural critique of beauty standards even while participating in them through the sort of compromises that every female star that anyone is interested in seeing like that engages in and that this does not make you Beyoncétan?

Why, I never.
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Is it, though?

The rest of your post are things that I've already given at least 6 other pop stars credit for throughout the course of this argument. I don't know why people keep making the point that I'm arguing the fate of all women in the entertainment industry when I've made it very clear that I'm arguing Beyonce and her specific choices.
 
M

Mumei

Member
royalan said:
Is it, though?

The rest of your post are things that I've already given at least 6 other pop stars credit for throughout the course of this argument. I don't know why people keep making the point that I'm arguing the fate of all women in the entertainment industry when I've made it very clear that I'm arguing Beyonce and her specific choices.
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I know you're talking specifically about Beyonce.

I don't see what makes her uniquely bad in this situation compared to other women in the industry - aside from an interview ten years ago that doesn't say half as much as what you're choosing to read into it and a song - aside from your pressedness towards her. The extent to which she's been hypocritical is a way that most women are going to be hypocritical - by your measure any feminist who complains about male beauty standards and then chooses to wear make-up for her own reasons - whatever they might be - is somehow a terrible person for her hypocrisy.
 
B

botty

Banned
royalan said:
Is it, though?

The rest of your post are things that I've already given at least 6 other pop stars credit for throughout the course of this argument. I don't know why people keep making the point that I'm arguing the fate of all women in the entertainment industry when I've made it very clear that I'm arguing Beyonce and her specific choices.
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How else are they going to dispute your point?

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R

royalan

Member
Mumei said:
I know you're talking specifically about Beyonce.

I don't see what makes her uniquely bad in this situation compared to other women in the industry - aside from an interview ten years ago that doesn't say half as much as what you're choosing to read into it and a song - aside from your pressedness towards her. The extent to which she's been hypocritical is a way that most women are going to be hypocritical - by your measure any feminist who complains about male beauty standards and then chooses to wear make-up for her own reasons - whatever they might be - is somehow a terrible person for her hypocrisy.
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I think that's a really cynical way of looking at it, considering there are plenty of female pop stars who have a reached a level of success comparable to Beyonce's (or even greater than) who have either not had to sex up their image, or have done so without compromising and contradicting themselves to the almost comical degree Beyonce now has with this GQ article. I mean, we're talking about more than just a little makeup here.

At what point does it stop being swept under the rug as "poor brave Beyonce doing what she has to do to operate under the harsh conditions set by the patriarchy!" and start being accepted for what it most likely is: Beyonce maneuvering for her own success and gain with little thought paid to consistency or scruples? I mean, if it were just her sexy image under the microscope I could see the reason for wanting to give her to benefit of the doubt, but this is but one strand of many in the giant weave of hypocrisy known as Beyonce Knowles.
 
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