With Old Snake, Kojima ignored all of the development that the character had in MGS1 and MGS2 by returning Snake to his roots; a clueless soldier who only follows orders and has absolutely no idea of what is going on. The guy doesn't even say anything during the climax of the storyline, and on top of that, the spotlight is stolen from him by a character that was supposed to be dead.
So much for MGS4 being the latest chapter of the life of the legendary Solid Snake.
Kinda pathetic and unfunny honestly. The whole hillbilly voice was just too stupid, i could just imagine this nerd ass loser, angry at Amirox's post, with his nose pushed up, saying that out of spite.
With Old Snake, Kojima ignored all of the development that the character had in MGS1 and MGS2 by returning Snake to its roots; a clueless soldier who only follows orders and has absolutely no idea of what is going on. The guy doesn't even say anything during the climax of the storyline, and on top of that, the spotlight is stolen by him by a character that was supposed to be dead.
So much for MGS4 being the latest chapter of the life of the legendary Solid Snake.
With Old Snake, Kojima ignored all of the development that the character had in MGS1 and MGS2 by returning Snake to its roots; a clueless soldier who only follows orders and has absolutely no idea of what is going on. The guy doesn't even say anything during the climax of the storyline, and on top of that, the spotlight is stolen by him by a character that was supposed to be dead.
So much for MGS4 being the latest chapter of the life of the legendary Solid Snake.
I don't agree with that. The translator(who also did Snatcher) said did everything to make Kojima's loony writening less corny and to have as much sense as possible. He didn't translate word by word, for the better, as he cought the substance and sense of Kojima's script better then anyone else. Yeah, but after someone told Kojima the translator "sabotages" his work, the man got fired.
The same guy also helped with voice directing and thanks to that MGS1 has the most solid voicework in the series.
Later they rewrote the english script(to make it more direct translation) and re-recorded all the voice work for MGS1 reeditions and MGS Twin Snakes(without the guy ofcourse) and it lost most of the original's magic. Maybe you heard that?
Embarrasing for me that I don't remember hi name even thou I listened to his lenghty interviews. :lol It was Jeremy Blaustein, was it?
I think that the voice actors and script were far superior in The Twin Snakes. I also think that MGS2's script and voice acting was probably the worst, but it got better from there. MGS3 was the pinnacle of voice overs and scripts to me because the whole thing felt completely natural and never made me cringe or embarrassed to watch with someone else in the room. The voice acting in 4 was the best it could have been, but I think the script was maybe not as good (from what I remember).
MGS4 had me completely blown away, but then I was slapped into coherence by the final stupid scene.
From the point where they showed that Snake didn't really kill himself (completely out of character for him, btw) until the end of the stupid conversation with Snake and Otacon should have been removed and needs to be purged from public memory. These final moments of the game pissed away all the amazingly great things that happened in the game.
SMZC said:
I disagree.
With Old Snake, Kojima ignored all of the development that the character had in MGS1 and MGS2 by returning Snake to his roots; a clueless soldier who only follows orders and has absolutely no idea of what is going on. The guy doesn't even say anything during the climax of the storyline, and on top of that, the spotlight is stolen from him by a character that was supposed to be dead.
So much for MGS4 being the latest chapter of the life of the legendary Solid Snake.
Big Boss being alive and stealing the spotlight and effectively ruining the rest of the story
, but I don't understand why people seem to think Snake regressed into his old habits. He wasn't a clueless soldier one bit. Take a look at all of the briefings for each act; he was there with everyone helping devise their next course of action. Yes, in the end he was being manipulated (this has simply become a recurring theme in the story), but he didn't know it at the time. Snake was acting of his own volition to comply with a personal, unofficial request from his old friend Colonel Campbell.
Kinda pathetic and unfunny honestly. The whole hillbilly voice was just too stupid, i could just imagine this nerd ass loser, angry at Amirox's post, with his nose pushed up, saying that out of spite.
That was me, actually. I regret doing it to this day. Not because I was an angry fanboy (check the other ytmnd's by that account), but because its just so embarrassing.
It realy broke my heart and I won't ever forgive that dipshit who fired the script translator, writer for MGS1. It went downhill from there and MGS4 story was the grand shitty final.
Yeah MGS1 had the best translation FOR SURE. I have no idea why didn't Konami rehire the guy to be honest...
MGS1 also has the best voice acting in the series. MGS3's voice acting would be fine if it wasn't for Hayter's voice. Snake comes off like a retard half the time.
It is a fucking travesty but it seems the well researched blog post someone did about Solid Snake having no penis seems to have disappeared from the internet.
That was me, actually. I regret doing it to this day. Not because I was an angry fanboy (check the other ytmnd's by that account), but because its just so embarrassing.
With Old Snake, Kojima ignored all of the development that the character had in MGS1 and MGS2 by returning Snake to his roots; a clueless soldier who only follows orders and has absolutely no idea of what is going on. The guy doesn't even say anything during the climax of the storyline, and on top of that, the spotlight is stolen from him by a character that was supposed to be dead.
So much for MGS4 being the latest chapter of the life of the legendary Solid Snake.
So what should Snake have done to unravel all the things that were happening behind the scenes in MGS4? BTW, he was just as clueless in MGS2, the whole Tanker chapter was one giant setup to screw over Snake and Otacon.
Not that she had an abundance of lines throughout the game, but I thought she was pretty much on par with David Hayter every time she spoke. Really, just perfect for her character.
Not that she had an abundance of lines throughout the game, but I thought she was pretty much on par with David Hayter every time she spoke. Really, just perfect for her character.
Take a look at all of the briefings for each act; he was there with everyone helping devise their next course of action. Yes, in the end he was being manipulated (this has simply become a recurring theme in the story), but he didn't know it at the time. Snake was acting of his own volition to comply with a personal, unofficial request from his old friend Colonel Campbell.
Well, I think that the mere fact that he goes on his mission because of Campbell's request is very important. Why can't Snake go on his own? Why can't he decide to put an end to Liquid because he thinks that's the right thing to do? Instead of that, he needs other characters to tell him what to do.
MGS2's Snake does stuff because of his own ideals (even though he's manipulated there too!); Snake is his own person. In MGS4, Old Snake needs a reason imposed to him for everything, even for putting a gun in his mouth.
:lol Can't believe I disagree with so many people. Hayter is the best part of the Metal Gear series. No question.
And I really can't believe that so many people think MGS1 is so good for voice acting and script. I can barely stand to watch it by myself, and I just won't play it if someone else is in the room, lest I be made fun of for playing such a dorky dork game.
I'm always speechless when someone hates MGS4. I have come to the conclusion that if you don't like it, you don't deserve it. There is no other logical explanation.
You HAVE to feel sorry for not liking it and hide in a corner. It's like having an allergy towards sex or something. You can't come out and hate on sex and pretend it's just an opinion.
I'm always speechless when someone hates MGS4. I have come to the conclusion that if you don't like it, you don't deserve it. There is no other logical explanation.
Well, I think that the mere fact that he goes on his mission because of Campbell's request is very important. Why can't Snake go on his own? Why can't he decide to put an end to Liquid because he thinks that's the right thing to do? Instead of that, he needs other characters to tell him what to do.
MGS2's Snake does stuff because of his own ideals (even though he's manipulated there too!); Snake is his own person. In MGS4, Old Snake needs a reason imposed to him for everything, even for putting a gun in his mouth.
I think it might help if we knew what happened to Snake between 2 and 4. I got the impression that he had more or less given up, and his trampled spirit would be the reason for his relative passiveness compared to MGS2. But that's just me defending Snake's honor. :lol :lol
Also, why would he put a gun in his mouth if he didn't have a reason?
I'm always speechless when someone hates MGS4. I have come to the conclusion that if you don't like it, you don't deserve it. There is no other logical explanation.
I'm always speechless when someone hates MGS4. I have come to the conclusion that if you don't like it, you don't deserve it. There is no other logical explanation.
A fantastic game does not have 3 shitty chapters (out of 5 total!), nor the absolutely embarassingly bad writing/cinematics that MGS4. Now, I realize theres a fair share of cheese and LOL-worthy dialogue in all the games, but they look like Shakespeare compared to MGS4. I wanted to shoot myself during the wedding scene, and by the time Big Boss showed up to kill a wheelchair-bound senior citizen, I felt like I had already been put through enough agony.
I think it might help if we knew what happened to Snake between 2 and 4. I got the impression that he had more or less given up, and his trampled spirit would be the reason for his relative passiveness compared to MGS2. But that's just me defending Snake's honor. :lol :lol
Also, why would he put a gun in his mouth if he didn't have a reason?
The guy's lost most of his life to his situation. We can pretty much tell from the opening scene in MGS4 that Snake is a trampled spirit. If I were in my 40s(?) and looking and feeling like I was in my 60s or 70s I'd feel pretty worthless too. It doesn't come across as strong as it could have maybe, but Snake's got a deathwish the whole way through. He's doing this because he figures it's a good way to go out, even if he does feel that he has to stop Liquid too.
A fantastic game does not have 3 shitty chapters (out of 5 total!), nor the absolutely embarassingly bad writing/cinematics that MGS4. Now, I realize theres a fair share of cheese and LOL-worthy dialogue in all the games, but they look like Shakespeare compared to MGS4. I wanted to shoot myself during the wedding scene, and by the time Big Boss showed up to kill a wheelchair-bound senior citizen, I felt like I had already been put through enough agony.
Considering the amount of MGS fans who loved the first two/three games have turned on Kojima and the series since MGS4, there has to be something wrong with MGS4.
Maybe the MGS4-lovers don't see what was truly great about the first three, and as such see MGS4 as equal in some way. It would certainly answer the question as to how anyone who played the first three could like MGS4, and would also be a testament to their poor taste.
I'm always speechless when someone hates MGS4. I have come to the conclusion that if you don't like it, you don't deserve it. There is no other logical explanation.
Well, I don't know about others, but I do think MGS4 is a pretty good game. The reason I hate it is because, to me, it's ruined pretty much everything about the series that I loved. It goes beyond being a hyped game that ends up disappointing.
autobzooty said:
Also, why would he put a gun in his mouth if he didn't have a reason?
To end the cursed legacy of Big Boss, as the first trailers suggested. I really, really would have liked that. I think it would have been a great opportunity to give Snake some character development (something that he lacks in MGS4).
Considering the amount of MGS fans who loved the first two/three games have turned on Kojima and the series since MGS4, there has to be something wrong with MGS4.
Maybe the MGS4-lovers don't see what was truly great about the first three, and as such see MGS4 as equal in some way. It would certainly answer the question as to how anyone who played the first three could like MGS4, and would also be a testament to their poor taste.
I personally find it unbelievable that a metal gear fan that has been following the series for over a decade would be content with the way things develop/end in MGS4.
I personally find it unbelievable that a metal gear fan that has been following the series for over a decade would be content with the way things develop/end in MGS4.
I must be way to easy to please when it comes to the MGS series. I would consider them all A+ games. With only MGS2 being disappointing on first viewing.
I personally find it unbelievable that a metal gear fan that has been following the series for over a decade would be content with the way things develop/end in MGS4.
However, the fact that the franchise is so old is part of the problem, in honesty. It's weighed down by its own fiction and a lack of planning. MGS1 transitioned into MGS2 so well because Kojima had plans for a sequel.
MGS2 was supposed to be the end, and then MGS3 (set in the 60s so as to not step on MGS2's toes) was supposed to be the end. Their open-ended questions were not supposed to be answered, let alone meshed together and turned into a sequel. I think it's fair to say Kojima had a job on his hands to tie up all of MGS2's loose ends, and he achieved it rather horribly.
A clean slate is what the series needs (new era/different timeline or something like that), not a direct sequel. The series deserves better.
I think it might help if we knew what happened to Snake between 2 and 4. I got the impression that he had more or less given up, and his trampled spirit would be the reason for his relative passiveness compared to MGS2. But that's just me defending Snake's honor. :lol :lol
Also, why would he put a gun in his mouth if he didn't have a reason?
No, the difference between MGS2 and MGS4 snake is quite a leap. The easiest way to describe Snake in MGS2 is that he has his faith in humanity restored. Although he's still Mr.Grunt, he's actually pretty positive about things with wanting to protect humanity, and he's doing everything on his own terms with no one holding any strings above him.
Snake in MGS4 is basically a tool who doesn't give a shit. The actual problem is that Kojima totally hijacked his character to put across his themes that he doesn't give a shit about MGS anymore. The problem is that Kojima DOES give a shit, what he basically did was come onto GAF and say "I could care less" when he actually meant "I couldn't care less". Basically, Kojima is the primary character in MGS4, not Snake. Don't get me wrong, Kojima has always played a hand in Snake's motivations and ideas, but he basically jumped in without using any lube and we were the ones getting cornholed.
A fantastic game does not have 3 shitty chapters (out of 5 total!), nor the absolutely embarassingly bad writing/cinematics that MGS4. Now, I realize theres a fair share of cheese and LOL-worthy dialogue in all the games, but they look like Shakespeare compared to MGS4. I wanted to shoot myself during the wedding scene, and by the time Big Boss showed up to kill a wheelchair-bound senior citizen, I felt like I had already been put through enough agony.
I loved each and every chapter. Just because they didn't have you tip-toeing around a Shadow Moses-esque building, doesn't mean they weren't all good. Maybe you went in this game with certain expectations that weren't met because obviously the gameplay is unlike any other Metal Gear game, but that doesn't make it inherently bad. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, but acting like 3/5 of the game were completely unlovable by anyone is ridiculous.
And while there were scenes I didn't care for in MGS4, I didn't find anything wrong with the script. It was the very premise of certain scenes that seemed a little off to me, but I got over it in my own way.
selective memory
I didn't like the wedding scene because Meryl marrying Johnny was really stupid. She could have married anyone as long as it wasn't Snake and the point would have gotten across. But I did enjoy Otacon and Drebin's musings during the time, and "Snake had a hard life," is one of the high points of the game.
However, I will say again that there is nothing redeeming about the ending of MGS4. It was bullshit and I while I defend MGS4 here, I refuse to defend that scene, and I agree with what you said about it.
