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[Son_of_Zardoz]

I'm all for the 2 console model IF they handle/price it right. I have no doubt they will make it work well, technically, but the pricing worries me. The Lockhart needs to be $299 (by that point I would expect the entire Xbox One line to have a pricecut) but I would still consider it at $350. Any higher than that compared to the Anaconda (guessing $500) and what's the point?

I will definitely be getting the Anaconda, but my sons play on 1080p screens so we'll definitely get Lockharts for them (when we upgrade their stuff) so long as the pricing works.

 

[Clear]

Putting in a cheaper APU isn't going to lower the price by much in itself. Its going to be a $50 saving at best, so there'll have to be a lot of other nips and tucks in order to make it meaningfully less expensive.

 

[mckmas8808]

• Half the GPU power for lockhart compared to Anaconda, but both will be using the same architecture. The differences will be ram, resolution and so on.
• Zen2 CPU for both consoles
• Lockhart will be aimed marketing wise to 1080p( hence why it will be cheaper).
• Anaconda is still gonna be 499 most likely.
• Lockhart will be between 299 and 349 most likely.
• Brad also stated that Xbox One Sales are around 50 million. Zhuge stated that Xbox One sales were around 41 million at the start of the year

​

I personally think Lockhart should be $299 and not $349.

So why those GPU and RAM differences alone are with $150 to $200 difference. Unless Lockhart also won't have a disc drive.

 

[mckmas8808]

It’s also very possible Microsoft can pull a fast one on Sony and launch the Lockhart model at a lower than expected price point of around $300.

I think Microsoft’s long term goal is obviously game pass and a powerful next gen console at current console price would be a market shaking event.

Microsoft can afford to do this kind of stuff — I don’t think PlayStation can.

This post proves that people don't read financial reports. Why would you think Sony couldn't sell the PS5 at a lost at this point? And what makes you think MS will sell their next-gen Lockhart (1080p) console for $299, when the Xbox One: SAD is being sold for $250 today?!?! And that's a 900p-1080p console with "TODAY'S" games.

 

[klosos]

Maybe Xbox are shuffling there Consoles around a bit Maybe

1. Lockheart £299 - lowest SkU - 1080p Ready
2. .Xbox X £399 - Medium SKu - 4k Ready / 30fps
3. Anaconda £499 - 4k 60 fps Plus

I don't think Microsoft will just drop the X , not how good and silent it is . BTW just spit balling

 

[mckmas8808]

Maybe Xbox are shuffling there Consoles around a bit Maybe

1. Lockheart £299 - lowest SkU - 1080p Ready
2. .Xbox X £399 - Medium SKu - 4k Ready / 30fps
3. Anaconda £499 - 4k 60 fps Plus

I don't think Microsoft will just drop the X , not how good and silent it is . BTW just spit balling

Why would the X1X cost more than Lockhart?

 

[klosos]

Why would the X1X cost more than Lockhart?

Well if Lockheart is only a 1080p machine , the parts compared to the Anaconda will be much lower end (eg 1080ti - 1060ti etc ) the same generation of APU just much less capable . a big if ' obviously but if it is then that would leave a gap in between the Lockheart & Anaconda , thats all.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Why would the X1X cost more than Lockhart?

Yeah, there is the conundrum Microsoft is facing. It really screws up the messaging when your last generation system is still more expensive and more capable than one of your next gen skus. Microsoft gained very little from the X. Truthfully, the X should be the backbone of what would be Lockhart, but they screwed that up.

 

[Ceadeus]

Now THAT is something that WOULD split the usebase.
No i cant se that.

Ahah yeah that's for sure. Well then, a more expensive console over the ps5 for offering this Cloud service, and to counter the Google project.

 

[NickFire]

Why would the X1X cost more than Lockhart?

Because

 

[Elfstar]

Again, this website has a serious problem with garbage clickbait biased tread titles and OPs.

 

[Elfstar]

edit

 

[metareferential]

In regards to 1080p vs 4k. Interesting analysis from last year from the steam survey.

That's just useless.

It's not like 1080p is preferred, it's just that it's still a sweet spot. Especially so since you can game at 1080p but with a much, much higher framerate than on consoles.

So pc gamers prefer to spend their gpu budget elsewhere, while on consoles devs just push for the higher res at 30fps.

 

[Vasto]

I like the 2 console way.

Right now I own a Xbox One X and my 14 year old owns the Xbox One S. Its good to have a cheaper system for kids and some people really dont care about having he best. Thats why lower end GPUs out sell the higher end GPUs.

 

[DrumNBassDanTTV]

Two consoles is stupid with one being stronger than the other. Everyone always want the stronger console, especially the hardcore. When launching no one who wants an Xbox is going to want the weaker system. Especially at the start of the generation.

Well thats not everyone is it? The cheaper console is good for parents that want the cheaper option for kids.

 

[mckmas8808]

I like the 2 console way.

Right now I own a Xbox One X and my 14 year old owns the Xbox One S. Its good to have a cheaper system for kids and some people really dont care about having he best. Thats why lower end GPUs out sell the higher end GPUs.

Yet it will eventually hold Xbox Next games back from fully acheiving what's possible though.

 

[Vasto]

Yet it will eventually hold Xbox Next games back from fully acheiving what's possible though.

The difference is only supposed to be in resolution. Thats what the rumor is anyway.

 

[xool]

The difference is only supposed to be in resolution. Thats what the rumor is anyway.

So we finally get the lockhart xbox 1080 (1080p ~= 360+360+360 geddit?) .. and the other (snek) is called the xbox 4k ..

It sort of makes sense until you realise that devs will use the 4k machine to push just over 1920x1080 and use temporal/checkerboard etc to make it up to 4k frame by frame .. which leaves the 4tf where ? .. yep pushing 640x480 ..

.this isn't gonna work out for MS if true ..

 

[Vasto]

So we finally get the lockhart xbox 1080 (1080p ~= 360+360+360 geddit?) .. and the other (snek) is called the xbox 4k ..

It sort of makes sense until you realise that devs will use the 4k machine to push just over 1920x1080 and use temporal/checkerboard etc to make it up to 4k frame by frame .. which leaves the 4tf where ? .. yep pushing 640x480 ..

.this isn't gonna work out for MS if true ..

They said the Xbox One X would not do 4K in AAA games and look how that turned out. What I want to know is will the X still be supported next gen.

 

[xool]

They said the Xbox One X would not do 4K in AAA games and look how that turned out. What I want to know is will the X still be supported next gen.

mmmh "they" ...

I mean with 6tf XoneX vs 1.8tf PS4 (3.33x) - it was always going to have a good chance to reach 4k

.. but the issue I see is that the X "adds more cream and sugar to the coffee" whilst Lockhart will be taking a plain latté and trying to remove stuff .. it's easy to add features, but when the base set is barely functional (like most console releases) and you're trying to remove features/use less power - it's going to taste like mud. [extended mixed metaphor]

 

[mckmas8808]

The difference is only supposed to be in resolution. Thats what the rumor is anyway.

Oh boy the post below completely speaks to what I've been saying on GAF for like a week now.

So we finally get the lockhart xbox 1080 (1080p ~= 360+360+360 geddit?) .. and the other (snek) is called the xbox 4k ..

It sort of makes sense until you realise that devs will use the 4k machine to push just over 1920x1080 and use temporal/checkerboard etc to make it up to 4k frame by frame .. which leaves the 4tf where ? .. yep pushing 640x480 ..

.this isn't gonna work out for MS if true ..

Thank you! Some people don't understand that you can't just act like an extra 10 TFs of power and 12 GBs of RAM will be used to uprez a game from 1080p to 4K with a few bells and whistles. And you didn't even include RayTracing. A game designed to use raytracing (like we seen in Minecraft lately) but to run at 1440p using CB rendering will look and run like BUTT on the Xbox Lockhart.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Going full 64 CU's for Anaconda and using the failed duds in Lockhart would be a clever way of maximising performance in the high end machine with much less risk.

 

[Insane Metal]

Snek = $499
Lock = $399
One X = $349

 

[Stuart360]

I love the fact that so many people think next gen wont be targeting 4k, even though we already have much less powerful machines in the X and Pro already targeting 4k.
Yes i'm sure Microsoft and Sony are going to release '4k ready' machines in the X and Pro, then go back to 1080p with 2-3 times more powerful next gen consoles.
Why do you think Microsoft is releasing 2 consoles in the first place?.
Its going to be so sweet when the meltdowns start happening when the first next gen games start being shown, and thy look like high end PS4/XB1 games like Foirza Horizon 4, GOW, and Horizon, at 4k.

 

[mckmas8808]

Snek = $499
Lock = $399
One X = $349

Don't forget that this will be in the Fall of 2020. You still think the X1X will be worth $350, 18 months from today?

I love the fact that so many people think next gen wont be targeting 4k, even though we already have much less powerful machines in the X and Pro already targeting 4k.
Yes i'm sure Microsoft and Sony are going to release '4k ready' machines in the X and Pro, then go back to 1080p with 2-3 times more powerful next gen consoles.
Why do you think Microsoft is releasing 2 consoles in the first place?.
Its going to be so sweet when the meltdowns start happening when the first next gen games start being shown, and thy look like high end PS4/XB1 games like Foirza Horizon 4, GOW, and Horizon, at 4k.

Do you mean the average game first gen games on the PS5 and Xbox Anaconda will look like Forza Horizon 4, God of War, etc in 4K? If so that's awesome!

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Yes, that’s perfect for me. Above $500 is suicide

Be smart and don't buy launch systems. Or wait for exclusives!

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Don't forget that this will be in the Fall of 2020. You still think the X1X will be worth $350, 18 months from today?

Rakuten already had the X1X at 320. So nope. Walmart had em at 350 last month. So I'm thinking sub 290.

 

[SonGoku]

Maybe Xbox are shuffling there Consoles around a bit Maybe

1. Lockheart £299 - lowest SkU - 1080p Ready
2. .Xbox X £399 - Medium SKu - 4k Ready / 30fps
3. Anaconda £499 - 4k 60 fps Plus

I don't think Microsoft will just drop the X , not how good and silent it is . BTW just spit balling

Yep, that's a mess alright
Not gonna backfire at all for MS! This is fine!

 

[Journey]

X1X $299
Lock $399
Ana $499

Seems legit.

 

[Stuart360]

Don't forget that this will be in the Fall of 2020. You still think the X1X will be worth $350, 18 months from today?



Do you mean the average game first gen games on the PS5 and Xbox Anaconda will look like Forza Horizon 4, God of War, etc in 4K? If so that's awesome!

Dont. You know there are a lot of people just looking at the rumoured 12+tf numbers, and not taking into account 1080p vs 4k. Meltdowns will happen if next gen games look just like high end PS4/XB1 games at 4k, when we start seeing next gen games. You yourself have already drooled over the rumoured TF numbers and talked about how devs can just do much lower resoltuons than 4k and just use checkerboarding to achieve amazing looking games.
Devs will be targeting 4k on the main next gen Xbox and PS5. All those juicy terraflops will be eaten up faster than candy in a sweet shop hostng a school trip.

 

[Mista]

Be smart and don't buy launch systems. Or wait for exclusives!

I can’t. I tried a lot but always failed. Luckily all my launch systems still working today

 

[mckmas8808]

X1X $299
Lock $399
Ana $499

Seems legit.

So what happens if the PS5 is $449?

Dont. You know there are a lot of people just looking at the rumoured 12+tf numbers, and not taking into account 1080p vs 4k. Meltdowns will happen if next gen games look just like high end PS4/XB1 games at 4k, when we start seeing next gen games. You yourself have already drooled over the rumoured TF numbers and talked about how devs can just do much lower resoltuons than 4k and just use checkerboarding to achieve amazing looking games.
Devs will be targeting 4k on the main next gen Xbox and PS5. All those juicy terraflops will be eaten up faster than candy in a sweet shop hostng a school trip.

I'm willing to believe the better devs will be smarter than forcing 4K in their games, if it looks exactly like this gen's games.

 

[Journey]

So what happens if the PS5 is $449?

With PS4 Pro @ $399 vs X1X @ $499, you would think it would be a slaughter then, correct?

 

[Insane Metal]

Don't forget that this will be in the Fall of 2020. You still think the X1X will be worth $350, 18 months from today?

Oh, you're right! I priced it for today haha. So this is it:

X1X $299
Lock $399
Ana $499

Seems legit.

 

[Stuart360]

So what happens if the PS5 is $449?



I'm willing to believe the better devs will be smarter than forcing 4K in their games, if it looks exactly like this gen's games.

Its not forcing 4k, both next gen consoles have the power to do 4k comfortably, like the PS4 could do 1080p comfortably and most of its games were 1080p. I'm not saying all games will look like high end PS4/XB1 games at 4k, just that there will be a lot of games that do, especially from lesser talented studios. I'm just saying that a lot of people are looking at the 1.3/1.8tf numbers of XB1/PS4 and comparing them to the 12+tf rumoured numbers of the next gen consoles, and drooling over the possibilites, without taking into account 1080p vs 4k, and just how much juice 4k will eat up.

 

[Silent Viper]

Two consoles is stupid with one being stronger than the other. Everyone always want the stronger console, especially the hardcore. When launching no one who wants an Xbox is going to want the weaker system. Especially at the start of the generation.

So people who bought GTX 960 over 980Ti are stupid? Everyone has different requirements and budget.

A solid 1080p console which runs games at 60 fps at good quality graphics will appeal to those who still play at 1080p tvs

 

[Silent Viper]

This right here is a tragedy, meaning the baseline for next gen will have half the gpu power of what it could have had, if it indeed comes to fruition. I pray it's not true or I'll hate ms forever and will never forgive them.

Devs will have to make sure all next gen games runs on this weak gpu that is in 'lockhart' greatly limiting devs vision and freedom.

Games are made for high end PCs which are even stronger than any Anacondaa and then it scales to different hardware. Dont post nonsense if u don't know how games are made.


Lockhart will have weaker gpu but same cpu n ram which means only resolution will be affected but not frame rate and other world details.

 

[SonGoku]

Its not forcing 4k, both next gen consoles have the power to do 4k comfortably, like the PS4 could do 1080p comfortably and most of its games were 1080p. I'm not saying all games will look like high end PS4/XB1 games at 4k, just that there will be a lot of games that do, especially from lesser talented studios. I'm just saying that a lot of people are looking at the 1.3/1.8tf numbers of XB1/PS4 and comparing them to the 12+tf rumoured numbers of the next gen consoles, and drooling over the possibilites, without taking into account 1080p vs 4k, and just how much juice 4k will eat up.

You are being disingenuous by just looking at TF numbers without taking into account other variables

• New arch that is more efficient and has new features and tricks, makes comparing TF alone pointless. Like comparing two different CPUs based on clockspeed without looking at ipc and other arch advantages
• CPU
• Memory capacity and bandwidth
• Dynamic resolution choices
• Last but not least: games designed around 13tf vs ported to 4.2tf

I think exclusives and midgen third parties will look and play mighty impressive. Crossgen will look like last gen with a new coat of paint but that has always been the case in previous gens.

Games are made for high end PCs which are even stronger than any Anacondaa and then it scales to different hardware.

Wrong, games are made for consoles and then ported to PC

Lockhart will have weaker gpu but same cpu n ram which means only resolution will be affected but not frame rate and other world details.

If it has the same ram (minimal gap) and cpu config. I could see that being the case
But the GPU needs to have enough headroom to brute force the same graphics at 1080p otherwise downgrade.

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

I just don't see the point of there only being $100 difference between Snek & Anaconda. Seems waaaay to narrow for them to stand out.

My hopes and dreams:
$500 Anaconda
$300-350 Snek
$250 X1X
$200 X1S
$150 X1D

That's a lot of SKUs, will be interesting to see which of the Xbox One(s) MS kills first. If I were them I'd kill the X because it's going to be confusing and that way there's not so much carryover (4K) between the gens. Slash prices on the others as far as you can. I'm saying this as somebody who has an X1X and loves it. In dreamworld it would be great if it could become the default Xbox One moving forward but I would imagine it's going to take a lot longer to get the prices down to a point where that would make sense.

 

[Stuart360]

You are being disingenuous by just looking at TF numbers without taking into account other variables

• New arch that is more efficient and has new features and tricks, makes comparing TF alone pointless. Like comparing two different CPUs based on clockspeed without looking at ipc and other arch advantages
• CPU
• Memory capacity and bandwidth
• Dynamic resolution choices
• Last but not least: games designed around 13tf vs ported to 4.2tf

I think exclusives and midgen third parties will look and play mighty impressive. Crossgen will look like last gen with a new coat of paint but that has always been the case in previous gens.

Well i'm getting a bit tired of repeating the same thing everyday, and explaining why. We will know soon enough as next gen game screens and footage will start trickling out soon, maybe even at E3. I'm sure we will be blown away by amazing tech demos and first party game footage, but we will see the 'truth' when 3rd part stuff starts getting shown.

 

[SonGoku]

Well i'm getting a bit tired of repeating the same thing everyday, and explaining why. We will know soon enough as next gen game screens and footage will start trickling out soon, maybe even at E3. I'm sure we will be lown away by amazing tech demos and first party game footage, but we will see the 'truth' when 3rd part stuff starts getting shown.

You haven't explained anything, quite the opposite, when your mindset is challenged you just look away and hope nobody notices.

 

[Stuart360]

You haven't explained anything, quite the opposite, when your mindset is challenged you just look away and hope nobody notices.

Check my post history from the last few days. Its people like you who keeps looking away and either does a laugh smilie without refuting anything, or keeps saying stuff about the cpu and ram, things that have little to do with the quality of graphics we will see.

 

[mckmas8808]

Games are made for high end PCs which are even stronger than any Anacondaa and then it scales to different hardware. Dont post nonsense if u don't know how games are made.


Lockhart will have weaker gpu but same cpu n ram which means only resolution will be affected but not frame rate and other world details.

Lets be fair here. PC games for at least 4-5 years have been held back due to the PS4 and Xbox One. Higher end PCs aren't getting games that they should be getting because almost nobody makes PC exclusive games anymore. Lockhart will hold back Anaconda.

If it has the same ram (minimal gap) and cpu config. I could see that being the case
But the GPU needs to have enough headroom to brute force the same graphics at 1080p otherwise downgrade.

Rumor is Lockhart will only have 12 GBs of RAM since it's a 1080p console, but Anaconda is supposed to be 24 or 32 GBs of RAM.

 

[MightySquirrel]

Games are made for high end PCs which are even stronger than any Anacondaa and then it scales to different hardware. Dont post nonsense if u don't know how games are made.


Lockhart will have weaker gpu but same cpu n ram which means only resolution will be affected but not frame rate and other world details.

Today's multiplats have to run on a gpu comparable to HD7850 720p 30fps because of xbox1 and ps4. Sure you get higher rez and framerate, draw distance, shadows and some nicer effects etc, but game assets are made for lowest spec. [the amount of polygons that devs can target will be commanded by lowest spec, you'll only get better draw distance from better system]

If there's half perf gpu in one of sku's then devs will have no choice but to target weakest system. Multiplats and xbox exclusives will suffer greatly because of that.

 

[SonGoku]

Check my post history from the last few days. Its people like you who keeps looking away and either does a laugh smilie without refuting anything, or keeps saying stuff about the cpu and ram, things that have little to do with the quality of graphics we will see.

No need to, all the arguments we engaged in on this topic end with you looking the other way when your argument is challenged, so far you haven't refuted anything i said.

If there's half perf gpu in one of sku's then devs will have no choice but to target weakest system. Multiplats and xbox exclusives will suffer greatly because of that.

Not necessarily, it makes more sense for devs to develop around PS5/Snek as base hardware and then downport (make sacrifices if needed ) to lockart kinda like what they do with ps4/xbone and switch

 

[Stuart360]

No need to, all the arguments we engaged in on this topic end with you looking the other way when your argument is challenged, so far you haven't refuted anything i said.

What?, i have replied to you loads of times, and you just have your head firmly stuck in the sand. You dont need to get so defensive, its alright to not agree you know. No one has refuted anything i have said countless times over the last few days. I have tried to explain why i have said what i have said, as much as possible, and in detail. All you have said is about a better cpu and better ram, but neither of those have anything to do with polygon counts, texture quality, lighting, shadows, etc, all that is down to the gpu. The cpu and ram will help with loading times, streming assets in games, higher framerates (if devs chose that route), but not actual graphics quality.

 

[SonGoku]

Rumor is Lockhart will only have 12 GBs of RAM since it's a 1080p console, but Anaconda is supposed to be 24 or 32 GBs of RAM.

If that's really the case then lockart wont be able to maintain parity at 1080p, it will have to go through downgrades in some cases drastic downgrades like using a different GI setup, but i doubt MS is going to be that dumb to fragment Xbox like that.

 

[Dabaus]

Reads like damage control to me. Hence on the "maybe." He either doesnt know the price, or he knows its not 299 but cant say it yet for obvious reasons.

Question for those of you much smarter than myself. Lets say the Lockhart and Anaconda both use Navi technology, have the same cpu, and different ram configurations. How Does MS go about saving 100-200 dollars if other than the ram, its the same system? Would they use a different Navi GPU and how/why would it be cheaper by simply being weaker or underclocked? Thanks.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Next gen is the one to really confuse the market. 2 tiers launching, 2 years later a slim model and then a mid gen refresh lol

 

[SonGoku]

What?, i have replied to you loads of times, and you just have your head firmly stuck in the sand. You dont need to get so defensive, its alright to not agree you know. No one has refuted anything i have said countless times over the last few days. I have tried to explain why i have said what i have said, as much as possible, and in detail. All you have said is about a better cpu and better ram, but neither of those have anything to do with polygon counts, texture quality, lighting, shadows, etc, all that is down to the gpu. The cpu and ram will help with loading times, streming assets in games, higher framerates (if devs chose that route), but not actual graphics quality.

You know how conversations work right? its a back and forth not a one sided thing
The fact that you reduced my argument to cpu and ram, proofs that either
a) You don't read
or
b) You are being willfully dense

Im still waiting for your reply on these

Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS

I really hope these rumors are true. 12-13 TF with games designed for it from the ground up and not having to support a weaker console too would be awesome. dont expect that til mid cycle. most games are gonna be crossgen for a loong time

www.neogaf.com

Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS

I really hope these rumors are true. 12-13 TF with games designed for it from the ground up and not having to support a weaker console too would be awesome. dont expect that til mid cycle. most games are gonna be crossgen for a loong time

www.neogaf.com

I'll condense them here for you
Since you seem fixed on the GPU front

• New arch that is more efficient, makes comparing TF alone pointless. Like comparing two different CPUs based on clockspeed without looking at ipc and other arch advantages
• New features and tricks
• Games designed around 13TF vs Ported to 4.2TF
• Dynamic resolution settings.

Things such as: NextGen arch customizations, FP16 (RPM) as base hardware means devs can develop around it to take advantage of it which is an extra 15 to 30% added performance depending of the scenario.
Variable rate shading and RT.
Can make the GPU punch above its weight compared to PS4 & PS4Pro.

CPU and Memory will help with LoDs, FoV, Distance Draw, more expansive and interactive worlds (bigger and more alive), destruction and physics. That impacts on the look and presentation of the game

Memory and bandwidth impact on the more complex types of lighting solutions, volumetric lightning, GI etc. Memory also impacts on texture quality.
There are also transparency effects and other bandwidth heavy effects that could be used with 880GB/s to push graphics further (see PS2 and 360 for reference on how bandwidth can affect graphics)
Anisotropic Filtering will greatly benefit from added bandwidth. Which does impact presentation