• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Project M Demo: Smash Bros. Brawl with Melee Gameplay! [Update: Out Now]

Anth0ny

Member




Satoru Iwata said:
Well, I had considered what I would do if you [Sakurai] turned me down and decided that I would need to take the existing Smash Bros. title, Super Smash Bros. Melee for the Nintendo GameCube, and try to make it Wi-Fi capable while preserving as much balanced game play as possible in the event you didn’t want to get involved.

For those who are intrigued: Project:M is possibly the most fun you can have with a Smash game, and that's certainly saying something. Every single person working on the project is here because we think we'll get something more out of this than we currently do with Brawl, Melee, or both. Furthermore, we love each and every one of you who gives this game a fair chance but decides against playing more. All we ask to anyone is that you don't, as the mantra goes, "Complain about games you haven't played." Rather, you can complain all you want after you try it. We're always open to constructive criticism (as long as you don't reiterate the same points 20 other people have made, that **** gets old fast) and our feelings will not be hurt if you say the game is not for you.

For those who recommend 'Just play Melee':

Hyrule Temple 64, Metal Cavern 64, Dreamland 64, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story, new moves on old characters, game balance, 300+ full-length pieces of music, and the ability to hack the game to put everything from Melee into Brawl, gaining everything that made Melee great without losing anything that makes Brawl unique.

For those of you who haven't read the official website: the demo has 29 characters and many stages. Rest assured that the full game will have 40+ characters, every stage from Brawl (including a bunch that have been edited to be more competitive), most of the ones that were removed from Melee, and even a few returnees from Smash 64. There is a difference between an unfinished demo containing a small selection of near-finished characters as opposed to a full, polished game.

For those who respectively disagree with what we're doing and recognize that this in no way, shape, or form affects them if they simply navigate to another window and put it out of their mind: Thank you for not being haters.

Masahiro Sakurai said:
"Melee is the sharpest game in the series," he wrote. "It's pretty speedy all around and asks a lot of your coordination skills. Fans of the first Smash Bros. got into it quickly, and it just felt really good to play."



Project M is a community-made mod of Brawl inspired by Super Smash Bros. Melee's gameplay designed to add rich, technical gameplay to a balanced cast of characters while additionally enhancing the speed of play. Project M employs new codes which seamlessly add in new, universal features to the entire cast to add technical variety to all characters.

Project M is playable on ANY Wii, without any hardware modification, and even without any longterm software modification. All that is needed to get started is an SD card and a copy of Super Smash Brothers Brawl.

Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects. It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone. The following is a list of the main aspects of Super Smash Bros. Melee that inspired and have carried over into Project M:

1. A fast-paced game
2. with flowing, organic movement
3. where the player has a great degree of control over his character due to the technical skill that he's achieved.
4. The balance of offense and defense changes depending on the exact matchup and playstyle, but overall tends to favor offense slightly.
5. Offstage edgeguarding is risky but rewarding, while on-stage edgeguarding is safer but less rewarding due to ledge techs.
6. Recoveries generally require great skill to use, with the advantage usually being with the edgeguarding player, with some exceptions.
7. The combos are challenging and spontaneous, with anything longer than 2-3 hits requiring a knowledge of both characters' options and some degree of prediction and/or a deep understanding of the mental aspect of the game.



I do not play Smash competitively, will this still be fun for me?

YES, this mod can still be very fun for every Smash player. Despite the competitive nature built around it, it has generated a lot of fun new ways for any player to enjoy characters they played in Brawl. From new stages like Hyrule Castle 64 to redone characters like Snake you will find something to enjoy here as a casual player. Matches overall become a lot more fun and way different than how they were in Brawl.

Ultimately, this mod is made for all players, competitive or not. Melee was enjoyed by both demographics, and this is no different.

Is there a release date for this project?


As of now, no. A release date would more likely than not result in a rushed game that isn't ready for public release.

If I bug the heck out of you, can I playtest plz?
No.

Will Mewtwo/Roy/Pichu/Dr.Mario/Young Link be in this?
The Project:M team will not half-ass the return of the Fallen Five from Melee. Young Link's and Dr. Mario's movesets have been integrated into the changes to Toon Link and Mario, respectively. This means that, for instance, the Mario you'll be able to play in the demo will have a fair with the vertical kill power of Dr. Mario's and the spiking sweetspot of Mario's. As for Roy, Mewtwo, and Pichu, there is currently no adequate way to insert these three into the game without overwriting an already-present character...but one is in the works.

What about [Brawl-Exclusive Character X]? What have you done with him/her?!
This demo is just a taste of what's to come. The 29 characters in the demo are all but completed and will be changed very little (if at all!) when the full game is released. The Project M team decided that the rest of the characters have not had enough work done to them to justify including them in the demo - rest assured that every character will be present in the full version.

Why are you making changes to Brawl-exclusive characters? What gives you the right to do this?

While it may seem a bit puzzling on why we are changing Brawl-exclusive characters so much it really shouldn't surprise many people. There are just some characters that rely too much on a few select moves or characters whose move set wasn't quite what was envisioned if the character was in Melee (for example Wario). Changing Brawl-exclusive characters brings richness to the gameplay and differentiates it from the original game so you're not just playing that same exact character and that same character has the same strategies; think of it as a new game. A big part of it is also to fit them within Super Smash Bros. Melee's physics, if they kept everything about themselves the same as in Brawl they would likely not feel very good or fit in at all making our goal impossible to reach if we left them alone.

Why are you replacing of all the stages? NOW THIS GAME IS JUST NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION HERP DE DERP

Settle down. Rest assured in the final release that all stages will (from Brawl) be playable as well as the newer stages. Newer stages include Saffron City 64, Dreamland 64, Metal Cavern, Dracula's Castle, a remade Hyrule Temple and many more! Giving new options is only beneficial, you shouldn't dismiss stages just because they lack hazards. New stages give a fresh feeling to the game and sets it apart from Brawl.

Although you've changed the engine to play like Melee, it still doesn't feel exactly like Melee. It's off a little. What gives?


Despite our best efforts, there are still a few things that have been resistant to editing. For example, when landing from a jump in Melee, most characters would not be considered 'on the ground' by the game until their feet were completely inside the ground and their shins touched it. This was changed in Brawl to having a character land when a specific, unmoving, invisible point below the centre of his body touches the ground. Though this point is normally near where characters' feet are, it causes them to effectively teleport to the ground when their bodies are positioned horizontally (ie during Mario's bair or Link's nair). Beyond making little sense, this change subtly but noticeably modifies the timing for some techniques and is undesirable to have; however, the Project M coders have not been able to revert it.... yet.

EDIT 4/15/2012: As of demo 2, this has been fixed. The game now feels and plays a great deal more like Melee. However, there are still a few bugs with certain actions and animations that have not been Melee-fied... yet.

Why do I see Melee models of characters and custom textures? Are these mandatory?
No. Project M comes standard with no custom textures. If you would like to customize your game, as seen in some of the screenshots below, head to Brawl Vault.

OH GOD, there has been a minuscule change to a Melee character. It isn't Melee, thus it is worse.
I'm gonna hit you.

I've come to the conclusion that I hate this project and everything it stands for. You guys should all just be playing Melee instead; this is Brawl. Is there anything I can do to stop you guys from making this?
No.



For a detailed list of General Changes (changes to the engine), click here.
For a breakdown of individual character changes so far, click here and on the desired character.



In order to play the game, you will need the following:

1) A Nintendo Wii
2) Super Smash Bros Brawl
3) An SD Card

Once again, no homebrew channel is required to play the game.

The Project M Demo is available through a simple easy-to-use installer.
This installer is available with the following options:

* Hackless Wii - Play Project M using an unmodified wii with just Brawl and a SD card!
* Gecko OS + Homebrew - Play Project M using the homebrew channel + Gecko OS (SD Card required)
* Riivolution + Homebrew - Play Project M using Riivolution (SD card or USB storage device required)

The Project M team does not support piracy, and the officially supported methods all require a legit copy of the game.

DOWNLOAD THE INSTALLER HERE

Instructions for how to play on a hackless wii:

1. Delete any custom brawl stage files on your wii and sd card! IMPORTANT!
2. Install the hackless wii files to your sd card.
3. Boot up brawl, Go to the stage builder.
4. Gecko OS will launch, press Launch game.
5. Enjoy Project M!

Instructions for how to play via Gecko OS or Riivolution

1. Install the files to your sd card.
2. Launch your wii, go to homebrew channel/Gecko OS or Riivolution.
3. Launch game and enjoy project m!





Dreamland 64 was missing from Smash Bros for the first time in Brawl. It has returned in Project M.


Yoshi's Story from Melee returns!


Hyrule Castle makes it's triumphant return to Smash Bros!


No items, Melee Fox only, Melee Final Destination. NOW THAT'S HARDCORE.


The beautiful Fountain of Dreams returns in Project M. Yes, they seriously didn't put it in Brawl. What the hell Sakurai.


Remember the Metal Mario stage from Smash 64 with the kick ass music? It's back!


New moves like Seismic Toss!


Shoryuken!


What's this?

*once again, textures are just for decoration and not included with Project M.



Project M Youtube Account
Sneak's Youtube Account
JCaesar's Youtube Account
Cubaisdeath's Youtube Account



The Official Project M Website
Brawl Vault (for pretty much all the custom textures, stages or music on the Internet.)

The Project M team:

Project Leader: Shanus
Lead Character Developments: SHeLL, Camelot, Strong Bad
Additional Coders: Dantarion, Yeroc, WindOwl, Almas, Standardtoaster
Character Design/Development: Shanus, Magus, jiang, Strong Bad, WindOwl, JCaesar, leafgreen386, Falco400, Plum, rPSI
Backroom Testers: Mango, Lucky, Lovage, Silent Wolf, KirbyKaze, unknown522, RaynEX, Amsah, Faab, BombSoldier, Captain Jack
Graphics/Menu Design: Orca, Guy, VectorAce
Stage Design: FrozenHobo, GameWatching, Mewtwo2000, Shadic
 

TreIII

Member
Great OP.

Now, it's merely just playing the waiting game. I've been waiting to get my hands on this game since I played the test beta some one brought on my nearby campus a few months ago. :D
 
Been following Brawl hacking since I first heard of the tripping removal code, and I've always been in favor of mods in general. It's no surprise that I'm eager to try this out, too.
 

fisheyes

Member
The prospect of a Mewtwo returning had me somewhat excited... until I saw no removed characters were returning. Lame.

Still, I will try this.
 

Anth0ny

Member
fisheyes said:
The prospect of a Mewtwo returning had me somewhat excited... until I saw no removed characters were returning. Lame.

Still, I will try this.

Dantarion has been recently putting in a lot of effort into a "Clone Engine," however...

Given what Dantarion has done for the project so far... I wouldn't lose hope ;)
 

TreIII

Member
fisheyes said:
The prospect of a Mewtwo returning had me somewhat excited... until I saw no removed characters were returning. Lame.

Still, I will try this.

It's not a definitive "no"....yet, at least.

They've said that if they can find a way to at least get Roy and Mewtwo in there, they'll do so. Until then, they're focusing on the base Brawl cast.
 

fisheyes

Member
Anth0ny said:
Given what Dantarion has done for the project so far... I wouldn't lose hope ;)

But Mewtwo isn't a clone, so I figured he had the longest odds of returning. Obviously I'm misunderstanding what this 'clone engine' is supposed to be.
 

Anth0ny

Member
_Bro said:
Uh, are those screenshots supposed to look like that? Looks kind of compressed and jaggy.

Taken in game with Brawl's camera, saved to SD card and converted to JPEG with a program. Unfortunately, this doesn't run on Dolphin, or I'm sure someone would have provided some crisp 1080p shots.

For now, this is the best I could do :(
 
Looks pretty awesome really. The stages alone are reason for me to be excited. Will definitely give the demo a shot when it comes out.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
It's been awhile since I played Brawl - did it always look that bad? Maybe those are just some bad shots in the OP, but damn, they're pretty uggo. Especially that weird pink-ish platform stage, yikes.

edit - Looks like this has already been addressed...sort of.
 

WillyFive

Member
Snuggler said:
It's been awhile since I played Brawl - did it always look that bad? Maybe those are just some bad shots in the OP, but damn, they're pretty uggo. Especially that weird pink-ish platform stage.

It's a user mod, don't worry about it. The stage doesn't look like that normally.

 

mugwhump

Member
Heh, I've been waiting for this all week. Then again, if they'd released it sooner, I probably would've flunked my math midterm, so it's all good. :p

Waiting for the rest of the cast is gonna be stupid though. What a dumb idea. Any ETA on the other 26 characters?
 
fisheyes said:
But Mewtwo isn't a clone, so I figured he had the longest odds of returning. Obviously I'm misunderstanding what this 'clone engine' is supposed to be.
Since no one addressed this I guess I'll take a stab at it. The 'Clone Engine' that's in the works isn't so much a system for making 'clone' characters as we know them from Melee or Brawl. It's being designed to clone a character in Brawl from which the new characters will be built off of. This way they can add new characters, add in a new icon on the Character Select screen without removing anybody. For example: let's say they want to add Roy. The Clone Engine can be used to create a second Marth of the CSS from which Roy will be built off of using an edited moveset, a vertexed character model, new textures and sound effects without removing the current Marth. Custom movesets and character models already exist for Roy and Mewtwo but right now the only way to implement them is to replace an existing character with them. At least this is how I understand it.

Here are some shots of the existing Mewtwo and Roy models.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/SyncSeduction/Brawl/al_100705_13242binout.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7884/al10092211407binout.jpg


Snuggler said:
It's been awhile since I played Brawl - did it always look that bad? Maybe those are just some bad shots in the OP, but damn, they're pretty uggo. Especially that weird pink-ish platform stage, yikes.

edit - Looks like this has already been addressed...sort of.
Something about the program that Anth0ny used to convert the screenshot files from Brawl makes them come out really ugly. It also doesn't help that most of the shots are of Smash 64. Also the Fountain of Dreams remake is still a WIP; the demo will include a more complete version of the stage than the one you see in that screenshot. The pink stage you're talking about is actually Final Destination from Melee pretty much exactly so if you thought it was ugly then I guess you'll think it's ugly now. It's being included mostly because the actual size if the stage and how the ledges work were deemed more beneficial for than Brawl's Final Destination. Plus it's a large defining part of Melee. I'm Brawl's FD will also be included in the final build. But if you don't like it then simply removing the stage file from your SD card will be easy enough.


timetokill said:
Very few items in the pics, not to mention just some weird looking stuff
:lol

Dude, you're just grasping at stuff you complain about here. If you want to play with items on high then by all means do so, no one is removing that.

mugwhump said:
Heh, I've been waiting for this all week. Then again, if they'd released it sooner, I probably would've flunked my math midterm, so it's all good. :p

Waiting for the rest of the cast is gonna be stupid though. What a dumb idea. Any ETA on the other 26 characters?
Well think of it like a demo released for a full retail game on XBLA or PSN. It's just a taste of what will be in the final game. The other characters and stages aren't finished yet so they wouldn't want to give us a bad impression with unfinished stuff. I'd rather have this demo than wait some more.

Great OP, very excited for Monday.
 

Firestorm

Member
omg dreamland 64 dreamland 64 dreamland 64
omg potential young link young link young link

I'll have to try this if they get YL in there :)
 

jman2050

Member
I approve of mods that actively attempt to add new (okay not really "new" in this case but you know what I mean) content and augment the experience. Certainly a far cry from something like Brawl+

I'll definitely check this out.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Big One said:
Will all of the Melee characters be added?

Updated the OP for clarification:

Will Mewtwo/Roy/Pichu/Dr.Mario/Young Link be in this?

The Project:M team will not half-ass the return of the Fallen Five from Melee. Young Link's and Dr. Mario's movesets have been integrated into the changes to Toon Link and Mario, respectively. This means that, for instance, the Mario you'll be able to play in the demo will have a fair with the vertical kill power of Dr. Mario's and the spiking sweetspot of Mario's. As for Roy, Mewtwo, and Pichu, there is currently no adequate way to insert these three into the game without overwriting an already-present character...but one is in the works.
 
What is wrong with Balanced Brawl? Is there really an obsession to change Brawl back into Melee so you can play with the "new" characters and "levels"? I get that some of Brawl's stuff was stupid even to non-competitive players (tripping, etc), but this seems like it's borderline obsession. Respect for getting a project like this done (when it is done), but I don't get the huge desire to go this far versus what was accomplished over a year ago with Balanced Brawl/Brawl Plus. Rather than trying to make Melee again, I would have been more impressed with the creation of new characters and a new balanced roster - Balanced Brawl let you create new models, new movesets, and new physics. At least that would have shown some creativity. Either way, whatever. As long as I can hack in my custom characters, stages, and music, I will enjoy any of these Brawl mods.

Seriously, it will never be as awesome or fun as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yybd02LrYJs
or this (the character matchup, not the level since it's in Project M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvEN24xeoQ&feature=related
 
TSA said:
What is wrong with Balanced Brawl? Is there really an obsession to change Brawl back into Melee so you can play with the "new" characters and "levels"? I get that some of Brawl's stuff was stupid even to non-competitive players (tripping, etc), but this seems like it's borderline obsession. Respect for getting a project like this done (when it is done), but I don't get the huge desire to go this far versus what was accomplished over a year ago with Balanced Brawl/Brawl Plus. Rather than trying to make Melee again, I would have been more impressed with the creation of new characters and a new balanced roster - Balanced Brawl let you create new models, new movesets, and new physics. At least that would have shown some creativity. Either way, whatever. As long as I can hack in my custom characters, stages, and music, I will enjoy any of these Brawl mods.

Seriously, it will never be as awesome or fun as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yybd02LrYJs
*Ahem*

From the OP said:
For those who respectively disagree with what we're doing and recognize that this in no way, shape, or form affects them if they simply navigate to another window and put it out of their mind: Thank you for not being haters.
Missed that line did we?

No one is stopping you from playing your copy of Brawl with any mods that you want. Plus any of those mods can also be used with Project M. So we can enjoy the same mods as you but with Melee gameplay.
 

mugwhump

Member
TSA said:
What is wrong with Balanced Brawl? Is there really an obsession to change Brawl back into Melee so you can play with the "new" characters and "levels"?
Because some people liked Melee's gameplay better? I mean, duh!
 

Loam

Member
Wait, how are they accomplishing this without having the need for a hacked Wii? Can you really edit that much with only a modified save?
 

mugwhump

Member
Wren said:
Wait, how are they accomplishing this without having the need for a hacked Wii? Can you really edit that much with only a modified save?
No, every time you run one of these "no-hack" mods, it utilizes exploits and shit to get the mod started, but it doesn't change anything in your Wii.
 
Wren said:
Wait, how are they accomplishing this without having the need for a hacked Wii? Can you really edit that much with only a modified save?
Everything is loaded off of your SD card. Your Wii doesn't need to be hacked but you still need a Wii compatible SD card. The Homebrewless method involves loading up Brawl and entering the Stage Builder (all custom stages must be deleted for this method to work including the pre-built demo stages). Using an exploit in the Stage Builder it will then load the data on the SD card to run Project M.

So simply put:

1. Turn on Wii and Brawl.
2. Run Stage Builder.
3. You have Project M.
 

dvolovets

Member
How easy is it to go back to regular Brawl? Is a patch actually applied to the game, or does Project M just run from the SD card?
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Anth0ny said:
Taken in game with Brawl's camera, saved to SD card and converted to JPEG with a program. Unfortunately, this doesn't run on Dolphin, or I'm sure someone would have provided some crisp 1080p shots.

For now, this is the best I could do :(
Doesn't work on Dolphin? Thats strange.
 

Anth0ny

Member
dvolovets said:
How easy is it to go back to regular Brawl? Is a patch actually applied to the game, or does Project M just run from the SD card?

Just SD card. As mentioned above, you'd have to go to stage builder and load Project M from your SD card. When you turn off your Wii, everything resets back to regular Brawl.
 
Drkirby said:
Doesn't work on Dolphin? Thats strange.
I'm sure that it could be adapted to work on Dolphin but I'm not sure if the Project M team is supporting it or will in the future. They might not want to be associated with the possible advocacy of piracy even if some people do legitimately rip their own games.
 
Hey.

Just wanna let you guys know how awesome i think this is and i wish you all the luck in seeing your vision through.

now i just need to get my wii outta hock :p
 

vertopci

Member

Solune

Member
TSA said:
What is wrong with Balanced Brawl? Is there really an obsession to change Brawl back into Melee so you can play with the "new" characters and "levels"? I get that some of Brawl's stuff was stupid even to non-competitive players (tripping, etc), but this seems like it's borderline obsession. Respect for getting a project like this done (when it is done), but I don't get the huge desire to go this far versus what was accomplished over a year ago with Balanced Brawl/Brawl Plus. Rather than trying to make Melee again, I would have been more impressed with the creation of new characters and a new balanced roster - Balanced Brawl let you create new models, new movesets, and new physics. At least that would have shown some creativity. Either way, whatever. As long as I can hack in my custom characters, stages, and music, I will enjoy any of these Brawl mods.

Seriously, it will never be as awesome or fun as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yybd02LrYJs
or this (the character matchup, not the level since it's in Project M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvEN24xeoQ&feature=related

Because the current mods aren't as fun and don't allow for stuff like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AkW5gD-CE

I'm sure others will agree and attest to the argument that Brawl simple does not allow for enough hitstun to perform juggles or combos. There are actually some things that I don't agree with in Project M like changing Marth's Shield Breaker back to Melee state, I think it should be the same animation but his normal attacks should have buffed range which has been restored going by the information on the site. We shall see after the demo is released though.

I actually like Brawl but there are too many limitations currently in any Brawl mod that don't make it as fun as Melee imo of course. Now of course I should just "go play Melee" if I want to so bad. But hopefully Project Melee will provide the best of both worlds.
 

WillyFive

Member
Perhaps better screenshots are needed with a better screenshot program.

This is what I could take from the game's own screenshot program way back in 2008:



Shame I lost whatever extracting program it was.

vertopci said:
Plus the gameplay is still complete and utter

Hey now, you may prefer Melee's gameplay, but there are still a great deal who see Brawl as having superior gameplay than Melee in just about every way, including me.
 
Top Bottom