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[Archie]

maybe the real question is why the gaming industry brings out the most nonsensical claims of them all?

Generally, gaming fans are younger than fans in other forms of entertainment. You can figure out the rest.

 

[rubso]

"The analog stick was introduced with the Emerson Arcadia controller, but did not reach popularity until the Nintendo 64, Sony Playstation, and Sega Saturn." --Wikipedia
:lol

 

[Error]

The controller was designed specifically for NiGHTS, in parallel, and was revealed with the game. The project began well before the N64 reveal.

:lol

 

[xaosslug]

Pet peeve.

Quite frankly, I think it's the opposite -- it's only fanboy blinders that cause people to try to come up with crazy explanations for how other hardware companies aren't just playing follow-the-leader with Nintendo as far as interface design, not the other way around.

But as someone said, Nintendo may have "pioneered" all these technologies but what would have come of them had a bigger hardware company not "copied Nintendo" and better implemented them? In the end, everything balances out.

Many might say Sony "pioneered" the casual/non-gamer market as a whole... does that mean Nintendo's "copying them" with Wii's supposed targeted demographic? ;p

Fanboy blinders don't only hinder one's ability to give credit where credit is due but it also hinders one's ability to give credit where credit is due...

 

[AniHawk]

The controller was designed specifically for NiGHTS, in parallel, and was revealed with the game. The project began well before the N64 reveal.

Game Boy came out before Lynx.

That's all I have to say.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

"The analog stick was introduced with the Emerson Arcadia controller, but did not reach popularity until the Nintendo 64, Sony Playstation, and Sega Saturn." --Wikipedia
:lol

Weird...I thought that the 5200 and Vectrex beat that to market.

 

[kaizoku]

:lol someone is actually trying to suggest Sega did not copy Nintendo?

Why bother? Their history is littered with Nintendo imitations/inspirations!

*cough*Sonic*cough*

Nintendo invented the games industry as we know it with the NES, SNES and GB and helped pioneer certain technical advances (as have others) - why dispute that?

 

[proposition]

:lol someone is actually trying to suggest Sega did not copy Nintendo?

Why bother? Their history is littered with Nintendo imitations/inspirations!

*cough*Sonic*cough*

Nintendo invented the games industry as we know it with the NES, SNES and GB and helped pioneer certain technical advances (as have others) - why dispute that?

People have managed to misinterpret my post even with clarification

My point is, what does it matter? Copying and adaptation and merging of ideas is important for the industry to survive. It is only beneficial to the gamer.

 

[GauntletPhantom]

.

 

[Kobun Heat]

But as someone said, Nintendo may have "pioneered" all these technologies but what would have come of them had a bigger hardware company not "copied Nintendo" and better implemented them? In the end, everything balances out.

Oh, I agree that it's only natural for everybody to jump on the next big idea. It's just odd that in this case it is, with few exceptions, a one-way street. If we're playing the "what if" game, I ask what would happen if, instead of simply playing catch-up with Nintendo, Sony/Microsoft/Sega had been pushing all the while to come up with better interfaces on their own? Surely there would be even more new and brilliant concepts.

Many might say Sony "pioneered" the casual/non-gamer market as a whole... does that mean Nintendo's "copying them" with Wii's supposed targeted demographic? ;p

This makes so little sense that I would advise you to simply pretend you never said it in the first place.

Fanboy blinders don't only hinder one's ability to give credit where credit is due but it also hinders one's ability to give credit where credit is due...

You just said the same thing twice, and I agree with you both times.

 

[drohne]

:lol someone is actually trying to suggest Sega did not copy Nintendo?

Why bother? Their history is littered with Nintendo imitations/inspirations!

*cough*Sonic*cough*

Nintendo invented the games industry as we know it with the NES, SNES and GB and helped pioneer certain technical advances (as have others) - why dispute that?

it took me a minute or so to decide that this post wasn't sarcasm. you really do believe that sonic takes its design cues from mario. and that "atari" is just a funny new name for infogrames.

 

[koam]

The controller was designed specifically for NiGHTS, in parallel, and was revealed with the game. The project began well before the N64 released.

Actually *fixed*

 

[littlewig]

What does Sega, Sonic, and the 3D pad have anything do with Sony ripping off Nintendo once again?

Lets stay on topic please.

 

[cartman414]

recent control pads have a lot of sony dna -- the handles, the dual analog, the tiered shoulder buttons. i suppose virtual boy had handles first, but we seem to be discussing influence rather than invention. the gamecube pad is a dual shock, and its "innovations" look more like pointless idiosyncracies. the waggle wand is a digression rather than a progression, though i'm sure many of you will resist that characterization.

Actually MS followed suit as well. And where Sony doubled up on the analogs in the former generation that were inspired by Nintendo, both Nintendo and MS IMO refined Sony's design by lengthening the grips and moving to the left analog to the leftmost position of the controller for sake of emphasis.

As for the Wii, the verdict is still out. More on that in just a moment.

nintendo was unquestionably a leader in console interfaces, but they ceded that position around the time they ceded market leadership -- and i don't think that's wholly coincidental.

That may have been the case last gen, but they're starting off fresh again this time around, with a concession to the tried and true in the form of the controller shell.

 

[proposition]

Oh, I agree that it's only natural for everybody to jump on the next big idea. It's just odd that in this case it is, with few exceptions, a one-way street. If we're playing the "what if" game, I ask what would happen if, instead of simply playing catch-up with Nintendo, Sony/Microsoft/Sega had been pushing all the while to come up with better interfaces on their own? Surely there would be even more new and brilliant concepts.

And we might have ended up with a load of rubbish, or console after console with gimmick interfaces.

Why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[mintosen]

actually.. didnt Nintendo invent life too?.. i think they have copyright on it...

or just close this thread.

 

[kaching]

The problem with a decal being read by a camera for orientation tracking is that once you've turned the controller a certain degree in two of three axis the camera is going to lose sight of the controller, at this point it'll have no idea how the controller is currently aligned. Basing orientation off of a decal on the front of the controller would limit tilt to the axis perpendicular with the camera lens, since users would have trouble controlling tilt in the other directions while stopping at a camera friendly angle.

I don't think full 360 degree tilt/pitch/rotation detection is the goal in this case though, because the player still needs to retain use of the primary gamepad functions and so would only be changing the orientation of the gamepad so much. Assuming the Eyetoy is well positioned, it should be more than adequate for detecting a decent range of motion. It'd really be no different than the way nudging an analog stick mere centimeters in one direction or another translates into more significant movement changes onscreen.

 

[Error]

man this thread is hilarious

it's kindergarten all over again.

 

[mashoutposse]

I guess this is how you stay market leader for so long. Sony doesn't seem to be afraid to admit when the competition has a good idea and they aren't so full of themselves that they won't try and bring their own version of it to their customers.

Apparently SCE is quite good at this copying thing -- while we will likely never get a Sony controller with a Z-button or a third arm, we did get a second analog stick, which in retrospect was a stroke of genius in its own right. I'm betting we're not going to see face buttons with odd shapes or clicking shoulder buttons this time around. So, this isn't exactly copying on the level of some bootleg Chinese operation.

If this news is true, let's see what Sony's take is going to bring to the table.

 

[SantaC]

man this thread is hilarious

it's kindergarten all over again.

Agreed. But the news itself isn't shocking.

 

[zink120]

And we might have ended up with a load of rubbish, or console after console with gimmick interfaces.

Why fix something that isn't broken?

This is so much better.....

Man, I'm very glad no one try to change it...:lol

 

[PkunkFury]

I don't think full 360 degree tilt/pitch/rotation detection is the goal in this case though, because the player still needs to retain use of the primary gamepad functions and so would only be changing the orientation of the gamepad so much. Assuming the Eyetoy is well positioned, it should be more than adequate for detecting a decent range of motion. It'd really be no different than the way nudging an analog stick mere centimeters in one direction or another translates into more significant movement changes onscreen.

good point, using the analog sticks while twisting the controller around would be a pain

 

[proposition]

This is so much better.....

Man, I'm very glad no one try to change it...:lol

All that modern phones have done is integrate the microphone into the handset. That is rather a different idea to a total reinvention.

 

[kaizoku]

it took me a minute or so to decide that this post wasn't sarcasm. you really do believe that sonic takes its design cues from mario. and that "atari" is just a funny new name for infogrames.

Twas tongue in cheek mate

I do believe he was designed to be a platforming mascot to rival Nintendo's kid-friendly mascot though. Sonic's cool-ness is far too deliberate and staged to be anything BUT a manufactured idol for the masses! Mario meanwhile - well...legend.

 

[Zweisy1]

Can't say im surprised.

Actually MS followed suit as well. And where Sony doubled up on the analogs in the former generation that were inspired by Nintendo, both Nintendo and MS IMO refined Sony's design by lengthening the grips and moving to the left analog to the leftmost position of the controller for sake of emphasis.

Yep. Microsoft and Nintendo both definitely improved on Dual Shock.. mostly because of actually having good and tight analog sticks though.

 

[jaundicejuice]

LAWL @ this "news", and the reaction it's garnered, specifically this post below...

Go to the Hell Sony. One again, what Sony can do in their life is only copy Nintendo.

And the incredible thing is that Nintendo had reason, because they have not annonced the Controller at the E3 2005, because "Our competitors will sure copy it".

And the amusing thing is that I have said that they were fool, but now it seems, if this news is true, that they had reason.

Anyways, I strongly think that the Boomerang with tilt sensors will NEVER have the precision of the Wiimote. the result will be only a bad copy of the original, exaclty like they have copied Nintendogs & Brain Training and ported then on PSP: the result was a shit, and this time will be the same.

Anyways, I don't remember the last time when Sony has not copied something. I still waiting for this event.

BITTER BITTER NINTY TEARS AM FALLING!

 

[proposition]

Twas tongue in cheek mate

I do believe he was designed to be a platforming mascot to rival Nintendo's kid-friendly mascot though. Sonic's cool-ness is far too deliberate and staged to be anything BUT a manufactured idol for the masses! Mario meanwhile - well...legend.

Well, from what I understand, Sega needed to make a game that would show their hardware's advantages, which is why Sonic is fast, then they made a mascot like Mario.

 

[BorkBork]

All that modern phones have done is integrate the microphone into the handset. That is rather a different idea to a total reinvention.

And switch from a rotary dialing system to an digital one. And made them cordless. And included letters on the digits. And provide things like voicemail and caller ID. But those are just gimmicks.

 

[proposition]

And switch from a rotary dialing system to an digital one. And made them cordless. And included letters on the digits. And provide things like voicemail and caller ID. But those are just gimmicks.

Haha, true, I didn't think of those. I was referring to the design of the handset.

You could in fact say that from the phone he shows there they added dialing, then analogue then digital dialling, then

 

[StRaNgE]

if only so many more asked themselves the same question. there are fanboys in every single area of technology, but people need to realize that our very human evolution and existence is dependent on adaptation.

if someone wants to call that copying to satisfy their own whims, so be it. but it doesn't change the fact that whenever rare innovations occur, it's only natural for other people and companies to use those techniques.

it's a part of human nature, and quite frankly, in the gaming arena Sony and every other console maker owes it to their customers and shareholders to remain competitive. no matter the industry, this will always be the case. maybe the real question is why the gaming industry brings out the most nonsensical claims of them all?

damn, i thought from your pic you were gunna spew some sony fanboy stuff but hot damn....


POST OF THE YEAR...

this guy makes serious good points!

 

[SantaC]

some news sites are reporting this rumor as well.

http://www.t3.co.uk/news/247/games/playstation_2/new_ps3_controller_design_next_week

The banana has been binned! Sony’s pre-E3 conference will see the unveiling of the final joypad design.

The controller will certainly be wireless, and we’ve heard one or two murmurs that suggest some kind of motion sensitivity might find its way in – a nod to Nintendo and its radical, revolutionary Wii controller, perhaps?

 

[zink120]

All that modern phones have done is integrate the microphone into the handset. That is rather a different idea to a total reinvention.

If you prefer :

 

[proposition]

If you prefer :

:lol

Yeah, we already established I was being dumb

 

[littlewig]

:lol

Yeah, we already established I was being dumb

 

[Zombie James]

You know what, i won't have any problem with motion detecting functionality if Sony integrates it into a Dual Shock design. Why? Because it'll be in a Dual Shock design (or, at least, i'd assume it would have the same functionality, like the batarang design). As long as the basic functionality of the controller remains the same and entire genres aren't crippled by it, i'm fine with it.

 

[Mrbob]

You know what, i won't have any problem with motion detecting functionality if Sony integrates it into a Dual Shock design. Why? Because it'll be in a Dual Shock design (or, at least, i'd assume it would have the same functionality, like the batarang design). As long as the basic functionality of the controller remains the same and entire genres aren't crippled by it, i'm fine with it.

This is what I'm expecting, and would like to see.

 

[cartman414]

It's more than possible that the Wii FHC inside the shell controller will already offer the best of both worlds.

 

[Mrbob]

It's more than possible that the Wii FHC inside the shell controller will already offer the best of both worlds.

No, because it is supposedly based off the GC controller design, which sucks.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

if only so many more asked themselves the same question. there are fanboys in every single area of technology, but people need to realize that our very human evolution and existence is dependent on adaptation.

if someone wants to call that copying to satisfy their own whims, so be it. but it doesn't change the fact that whenever rare innovations occur, it's only natural for other people and companies to use those techniques.

it's a part of human nature, and quite frankly, in the gaming arena Sony and every other console maker owes it to their customers and shareholders to remain competitive. no matter the industry, this will always be the case. maybe the real question is why the gaming industry brings out the most nonsensical claims of them all?

Patents. They exist to encourage innovation and to allow innovators to profit from their experimentation. They expire so entire industries can progress based on prior innovations.

Thus, you're right that Sony should implement this technology if it's truly a step forward. You're wrong, however, in that Sony is clearly wrong to steal this implementation this generation.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

No, because it is supposedly based off the GC controller design, which sucks.

But really though, who thinks that Sony would seriously do this? Their console will be batshit insane in price if so.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

No, because it is supposedly based off the GC controller design, which sucks.

Can you see beyond a brand name? Do you have an iota of imagination?

 

[jedimike]

The PS3 controller is one of my biggest E3 interests. They got bit with the Dual Shock by infringing on Immersions (Microsoft's) patents and there probably isn't much wiggle room before they start infringing on Nintendo's patents.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

The PS3 controller is one of my biggest E3 interests. They got bit with the Dual Shock by infringing on Immersions (Microsoft's) patents and there probably isn't much wiggle room before they start infringing on Nintendo's patents.

Or infringing on fruit shapes.








I kid...I kid...

 

[madara]

People have managed to misinterpret my post even with clarification

My point is, what does it matter? Copying and adaptation and merging of ideas is important for the industry to survive. It is only beneficial to the gamer.

As long as not done so fast and blantant that its puts the original creators out of said business financially or just lack of interest. Then you just have copycat company left that can no longer innovate because there is nothing to steal.

 

[charlequin]

This is... humorous

Spoiler

ly untrue

news.

I think my biggest feeling is that it's not really worth the effort for PS3 to include a tiny bit of motion detection (since it probably wouldn't be good enough for aiming, the #1 potential benefit of such an inclusion) and it's not worth the money to copy the Wiimote at this stage. I'd like to see waggling become standard eventually, but once it's been shown off effectively and perfected rather than half-assedly.

The "nuh uh didn't copy" debate is really funny, especially due to people's inability to accept that one company can do both good AND bad things. C'mon guys, Sony fucking copied the shit out of Nintendo for their controllers. And yet Nintendo got ownzed on the optical media. All three game companies pull underhanded maneuvers and make boneheaded mistakes. It's simple!

P.S. I'm glad to see that drohne is in here bashing the motion detection idea. It's good to see confirmation that he and drinky actually hate everything that nintendo stand for rather than blindly hating things because of their brand name. :lol

 

[Mrbob]

Can you see beyond a brand name? Do you have an iota of imagination?

I guess not, must explain why I own more DS games than PSP games at the moment.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I really hope this is true. Not because I care one way or the other, but because the reactions on both sides would be hilarious. Classic GAF in the making.

 

[Mike Works]

Nintendo fans pissed off at Sony potentially copying them again? Check.

Sony fans trying to mask their controller related insecurities and everything they've said about Nintendo's controller up until this day by attempting to divert attention to "look at those nintendo fans panic lol"? Check.

Mass hysteria less than a week before E3?

 

[Chrono]

The mass hysteria will really hit once nintendo reveals the other secret and counter-owns sony in less than 24 hours from their conference. Believe.

 

[Aryuken]

Thats why Ps3 dev Kits have DS2 controllers?