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[soldat7]

well, the alternative doesn't fuck me over.

So rampant piracy doesn't have any effect on legitimate users? I beg to differ.

Look, it's quite possible that Sony is making an ignorant move here. They've certainly demonstrated their boneheadedness in the past. However, I think a much more likely scenario is that they've discovered, either internally or externally, that having a user-installed OS as an option represents a security flaw of some sort.

 

[Tain]

So you're OK with the possible alternative? You're OK with the possibility of a security flaw that could lead to piracy on the PS3? Mkay...

Yes. I absolutely am.

The most knowledgeable people here say that Other OS has nothing to do with potential exploits, but even ignoring that, I'm completely okay with Other OS leading to executable homebrew code that can take advantage of RSX on old PS3s. It's a way better scenario than feature removal.

 

[wsippel]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure to use the geohot hack, you need to compile the source code and run it from linux. Then use pulse to a certain location on the motherboard.

Correct. The latter is the actual hole, the former just a convenient way to work with it. And pretty much completely useless in itself when it comes to piracy.

 

[AmericanNinja]

i don't use linux

i don't really care

agreed, same here.

 

[Afrikan]

So they told everyone 5 days in advance.......seems considerate.

so this really just affects people who used their PS3 for both gaming and Linux. I feel bad for said gamers, I know I would feel devastated if I was one of those type of people and I was used to the convenience.........everyone else pfff. bitching just to bitch. removing BC next right? :lol

again for the affected gamers, it might be worth just getting an extra slim for gaming.....or at least I would.

I know you shouldn't have to buy a second console....but there seems to be a valid reason why they feel they have to do this.

 

[soldat7]

Yes. I absolutely am.

The most knowledgeable people here say that Other OS has nothing to do with potential exploits, but even ignoring that, I'm completely okay with Other OS leading to executable homebrew code that can take advantage of RSX on old PS3s.

I'm sorry, but the most knowledgeable people here do not work for Sony R&D.

 

[MrPliskin]

Your labeling of hackers as "pirates" pretty much tips your hand as to your angle. Anyway, I'm sure you're right and the PS3 is the most secure piece of technology ever created, because Sony-sama Sony-sama Sony-sama.

Well, I certainly don't care about this feature at all (I use a Slim) and I don't feel like carrying on a fight with the already large crowd of Sony Soldiers that are disagreeing with me, so I'm outta here. Have fun, gang.

And your care free attitude toward what they do tips your hand to your angle.

No matter what hackers do, their "findings" are always exploited. Always.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I'm sorry, but the most knowledgeable people here do not work for Sony R&D.

Consumers > Corporations

 

[TheSeks]

So you're OK with the possible alternative? You're OK with the possibility of a security flaw that could lead to piracy on the PS3? Mkay...

Keyword: There has been shit done with the Hypervisor hack. JACK. SHIT. If it came to head, then yes patch it out it would be understandable. Raising a white flag and removing a feature is bullshit, and the reasoning behind it (right now) is double-bullshit.

sooo...you don't liek trophies?

Does it matter if I do or do not? It's a shitty comparison. A software feature versus a hardware feature.

 

[Tain]

Consumers > Corporations

It's really that simple.

 

[Anony]

part of the reason ps3 wasnt hacked is because day 1, you could install linux on it

i laugh if this blows up on sony's face when linux/hackers take this opportunity and run of it

 

[soldat7]

Keyword: There has been shit done with the Hypervisor hack. JACK. SHIT. If it came to head, then yes patch it out it would be understandable. Raising a white flag and removing a feature is bullshit, and the reasoning behind it (right now) is double-bullshit.

Ever consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Sony knows more about this particular security flaw than the public? We're all very used to Sony being reactive and not proactive. Maybe this is one of those rare cases?

 

[commissar]

I am really curious about required updates removing features and how this is covered under consumer law.

(not US fyi, so don't sweat telling me )

 

[jett]

Doesn't affect me as I have no intention of installing linux or messing around with the hardware inside the PS3.

random sony hate, since this thread seems appropriate: my dual shock 3 broke down again today(the spring in L2 broke...the one in R2 had broken before). Fuck you sony and your shit ass pseudo triggers.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Doesn't affect me as I have no intention of installing linux or messing around with the hardware inside the PS3.

random sony hate, since this thread seems appropriate: my dual shock 3 broke down again today(the spring in L2 broke...the one in R2 had broken before). Fuck you sony and your shit ass pseudo triggers.

Is it under a year old? Call Sony and bitch till they replace it.

 

[Master Z]

Anyway for my 2c, I am not sure this is piracy related at all.
It's a documented fact it was removed from Slim due to added maintenance costs, and phase-out pattern is virtually identical to PS2-hardware in PS3. It's entirely possible this would have happened with or without the hacks.

Interesting...

 

[patsu]

Lazy solution to a non existant problem as of now. Surley Sony should be able to find and fix the problem in code before anything serious happens on geohosts side.

We don't have data to say anything really. Sony network could be probed or under attack by hackers, but we may not know about it.

If you wait for them to mature/advance or find a way to install backdoor, it may be too late.

 

[Jayx77]

I think a lot of people bitching about this either have not or never intended to run linux on their PS3's.

I had it installed for a bit (YDL) and it was an exercise in frustration to get it running for a person (like me) who isn't familiar with linux. It definitely isn't the platform to try and learn on and definitely not a desktop replacement.

While I did have it on there, I was really unimpressed with the level of performance I was getting. It just felt like I was using a really old PC. My opinion of course.

That said, I don't think it's acceptable for them to remove any functionality from the console regardless of their reasoning.

 

[jett]

Is it under a year old? Call Sony and bitch till they replace it.

it's teh old. :| I'm considering scavenging my sixaxis for parts but I don't want to mess up the one good ps3 controller I have. I hate this generation, never before have I had so many problems.

 

[LQX]

I don't use the feature at all but I hate to lose it as their might have be a possibility in the future for it to be more useful.

Also, I have always felt if piracy was to ever take over the PS3 it would be because on the OS install feature.

 

[TheSeks]

We're all very used to Sony being reactive and not proactive. Maybe this is one of those rare cases?

Think that if it'll make yous sleep better at night, but anytime the PSP's firmware is cracked and opened for Custom Firmware, a new PSP firmware pops-out of Sony HQ a few days later.

I'd say this is Sony being reactive, once again, to a small minor development. But hey, keep thinking they're being proactive by gimping the PS3 I paid $600 for by removing features from it. Let's have this talk when PS2 BC is removed from my Peter Parker because the Slims don't have it and the Hypervisor is cracked again through a PS2 BC exploit.

Fuck you sony and your shit ass pseudo triggers.

Fuck turning those into triggers in the first place. So goddamn shitty, if you couldn't do it right, why bother putting in a half-ass solution? Give me my goddamn PS2 L/R2 buttons back, assholes.

 

[ReyBrujo]

at the people who think this is because of piracy. The PS3 has been hacked (even if it is a damn hard way to do it and that only a few thousands in the world are able to reproduce) but that doesn't mean we will have custom firmware available for everyone in a year. I am betting the PS3 won't be massively hacked before its death (if ever). Blank blu-ray discs and burners are still too expensive to ever consider making copies. It is just not viable.

Also, I doubt there are many outside using this feature either. Maybe just a couple of millions. Sure, you can create programs but unless you are creating something tailored for the PS3 (like a media center or similar) it is just a hobby.

However, as mentioned before, it is the fact that features are being removed compulsively from models that had them originally. You can't keep it if you want to connect to PSN, which isn't as "vital" as Xbox Live for the Xbox 360, but it is still much more important than the Nintendo Wi-Fi. For example, what if they decide to kill PS2 backwards compatibility in the original 60gb unit? Emulation is done via hardware, but there is nothing suggesting they cannot just do that with a firmware update.

A console is a closed platform, so we can't really decide for ourselves what it is supposed to do (we can modify it to do what we want to do later, but originally it is the company that decides what it should do). However, taking away existing features is nonsense. They could decide to block all the blu-rays of certain studios working in all their own blu-ray players. They could make all Bravia TVs to stop playing, say, a determined video format.

You bought a VW car. Now imagine tomorrow several mechanics arrive to replace your 5 speed stick with an automatic gear because it is more secure.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

it's teh old. :| I'm considering scavenging my sixaxis for parts but I don't want to mess up the one good ps3 controller I have. I hate this generation, never before have I had so many problems.

You should try anyway. It's over fifty bucks for god's sake.

Think that if it'll make yous sleep better at night, but anytime the PSP's firmware is cracked and opened for Custom Firmware, a new PSP firmware pops-out of Sony HQ a few days later.

I'd say this is Sony being reactive, once again, to a small minor development. But hey, keep thinking they're being proactive by gimping the PS3 I paid $600 for by removing features from it. Let's have this talk when PS2 BC is removed from my Peter Parker because the Slims don't have it and the Hypervisor is cracked again through a PS2 BC exploit.

While this is extremely unlikely, I could almost see this happening:


"Backwards compatibility? Who needs that! That's SD garbage, why not play something NEW HD AND EXCITING, which PUSHES GAMING FORWARD, like God of War® collection instead!"

 

[Somnid]

Consumers > Corporations

Without corporations there aren't really consumers, at least not at the level of micro-computers.

 

[racerx]

Correct. The latter is the actual hole, the former just a convenient way to work with it. And pretty much completely useless in itself when it comes to piracy.

You're not understanding how the hack works. How are you going to run the hack if you don't have access to linux?

To get hack to work - which is unrestricited read and write to the entire memory space - you need to boot into linux to run geohot's code. Then send a pulse to the motherboard. This then gives you access to the entire address space.

Without the other os feature, you can't utilize geohotz hack.

This update is totally because of geohot.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Without corporations there aren't really consumers, at least not at the level of micro-computers.

Without consumers, there are no one for those corporations to sell their little microchips to.

 

[Master Z]

I am really curious about required updates removing features and how this is covered under consumer law.

(not US fyi, so don't sweat telling me )

I'm pretty sure they cover their asses with the TOS agreement that every user is automatically binded to when they activate their PS3....did you know that you technically don't actually own the downloaded stuff on your console? You just bought a license to use it! :lol

 

[lyre]

I can't wait until someone finds an exploit involving a "The Dark Knight" bluray disc. The number of exploding heads will be legendary.

 

[patsu]

at the people who think this is because of piracy. The PS3 has been hacked (even if it is a damn hard way to do it and that only a few thousands in the world are able to reproduce) but that doesn't mean we will have custom firmware available for everyone in a year. I am betting the PS3 won't be massively hacked before its death (if ever). Blank blu-ray discs and burners are still too expensive to ever consider making copies. It is just not viable.

Also, I doubt there are many outside using this feature either. Maybe just a couple of millions. Sure, you can create programs but unless you are creating something tailored for the PS3 (like a media center or similar) it is just a hobby.

However, as mentioned before, it is the fact that features are being removed compulsively from models that had them originally. You can't keep it if you want to connect to PSN, which isn't as "vital" as Xbox Live for the Xbox 360, but it is still much more important than the Nintendo Wi-Fi. For example, what if they decide to kill PS2 backwards compatibility in the original 60gb unit? Emulation is done via hardware, but there is nothing suggesting they cannot just do that with a firmware update.

A console is a closed platform, so we can't really decide for ourselves what it is supposed to do (we can modify it to do what we want to do later, but originally it is the company that decides what it should do). However, taking away existing features is nonsense. They could decide to block all the blu-rays of certain studios working in all their own blu-ray players. They could make all Bravia TVs to stop playing, say, a determined video format.

You bought a VW car. Now imagine tomorrow several mechanics arrive to replace your 5 speed stick with an automatic gear because it is more secure.

The problem is PSN. A hacked system can destablize the service, which may affect me as an end user too. It's not a pretty solution, but I much prefer them to keep those uncertainty out of PSN. If they end up spending resources to play this cat-n-mouse security game, then requests have to be secured (which translate to slowness to all users). e.g., the dynamic themes are unsigned today, and geohot is said to exploit it.

One can argue PS3 has lost a feature, then again, it has also gained a lot of features since I bought it. I used to use PS3 Linux quite a bit. It's a loss to me too. However I really do prefer them to focus on games rather than security.

 

[Infinite Justice]

You should try anyway. It's over fifty bucks for god's sake.



While this is extremely unlikely, I could almost see this happening:


"Backwards compatibility? Who needs that! That's SD garbage, why not play something NEW HD AND EXCITING, which PUSHES GAMING FORWARD, like God of War® collection instead!"

the funny thing is that this already kinda happened with the removal of BC from later PS3s.

 

[Somnid]

Without consumers, there are no one for those corporations to sell their little microchips to.

Bingo, it's a feedback loop. This is why people should give a shit about Sony's side of the situation.

 

[CadetMahoney]

While my PS3 is a slim, and I couldn't care less about Linux anyway, it's rather cheeky of Sony to release an update that does nothing but remove features.

well it does do everything/ heh

However, as mentioned before, it is the fact that features are being removed compulsively from models that had them originally. You can't keep it if you want to connect to PSN, which isn't as "vital" as Xbox Live for the Xbox 360, but it is still much more important than the Nintendo Wi-Fi. For example, what if they decide to kill PS2 backwards compatibility in the original 60gb unit? Emulation is done via hardware, but there is nothing suggesting they cannot just do that with a firmware update.

I don't think they can kill ps2 emu with a firmware update, there would be no logic to it have a kill option on the first place.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Via Slashdot (from where I read the news and droped by here), Sony Computer Entertainment management said just a month ago Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm pretty sure they cover their asses with the TOS agreement that every user is automatically binded to when they activate their PS3....did you know that you technically don't actually own the downloaded stuff on your console? You just bought a license to use it! :lol

I have bad news for you there. ALL software you buy says that in the EULA. That's what EULA stands for: "End User Licensing Agreement". You don't OWN any software you buy, and you never have. Windows, Office, Photoshop, Gears of War, World of Warcraft, all of it. You purchase a LICENSE to use the software, you do not and never have purchased IT. The source code and compiled binaries themselves remain the intellectual property of the creators, what you pay money for is the legal right to launch and run the compiled binaries on your computer or game console or other electronic device. :lol

 

[Azerach]

Without consumers, there are no one for those corporations to sell their little microchips to.

With rampant piracy, there are no one for those corporations to sell their games to


case in point: psp.

 

[lupinko]

Apocalyps3 returns yet again on 2010-04-01. Mark your calendars boys!

 

[soldat7]

Without consumers, there are no corporations to sell their little microchips to.

It's an ecosystem that happens to include developers with a vested interest in a piracy-free PS3.

 

[TheSeks]

I can't wait until someone finds an exploit involving a "The Dark Knight" bluray disc. The number of exploding heads will be legendary.

Jett would have to be put on suicide watch?

This is why people should give a shit about Sony's side of the situation.

OH NOES DEM

Spoiler

IMAGINARY

PIRATES! RUINING THEM SONY CORPORATION THINGS.

Which I guess is how some people can see Sony's side of the situation.

Frankly, I can't give a shit about Sony's side of the situation when they give a bullshit excuse like that. I rather them be more honest "This is in regards to the Hypervisor hack and us protecting our work" instead of "security issues," but hey, I'm a curious person and don't like shady answers.

 

[-PXG-]

Seriously, it scares me how pro-corporation GAF is sometimes. Unless you guys are working for them or making money from investing, there is no reason why you should be defending them.

Saying piracy is the reason why Sony is taking away the OtherOS is flat out retarded. Piracy doesn't exist with the PS3. The hypervisor was JUST cracked. It would be ages until any kind of bootloaders, ISO rips or any REAL piracy would exist. Even if such things happened, Sony could simply come out with a patch to the GameOS, and BAM...back to square one.

Sure, could load emulators and ROMs of other consoles through Linux, but why should Sony care about what a very small percentage of people are doing with OTHER company's stuff? It's a waste of time. The time they put in disabling OtherOS could be time spent ADDING a useful feature to the system, adding value, encouraging people to legitimately obtain their products.

Taking away this feature is absolutely unnecessary. Sure, most people admittedly didn't use it or didn't utilize it to it's fullest. But that doesn't mean that it has to be eliminated.

 

[patsu]

Via Slashdot (from where I read the news and droped by here), Sony Computer Entertainment management said just a month ago Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.

That's before the geohot incident though. Plans can change in the face of threats.

Seriously, it scares me how pro-corporation GAF is sometimes. Unless you guys are working for them or making money from investing, there is no reason why you should be defending them.

I don't know. You sound as bad as the people who downplayed PS3 Linux loss.

Saying piracy is the reason why Sony is taking away the OtherOS is flat out retarded. Piracy doesn't exist with the PS3. The hypervisor was JUST cracked. It would be ages until any kind of bootloaders, ISO rips or any REAL piracy would exist. Even if such things happened, Sony could simply come out with a patch to the GameOS, and BAM...back to square one.

Sure, could load emulators and ROMs of other consoles through Linux, but why should Sony care about what a very small percentage of people are doing with OTHER company's stuff? It's a waste of time. The time they put in disabling OtherOS could be time spent ADDING a useful feature to the system, adding value, encouraging people to legitimately obtain their products.

Taking away this feature is absolutely unnecessary. Sure, most people admittedly didn't use it or didn't utilize it to it's fullest. But that doesn't mean that it has to be eliminated.

That's because you are only looking at the PS3 hardware as a standalone unit. With OtherOS hypervisor access, they can launch more sophisticated attacks on *PSN*

 

[ReyBrujo]

I don't think they can kill ps2 emu with a firmware update, there would be no logic to it have a kill option on the first place.

I don't think they would have left that up without a kill switch. Unless the PS3 changes to PS2 mode automatically (by hardware) whenever you insert a PS2 game, I am sure a firmware update could just return PS2 discs as "unreadable" before turning PS2 emulation on, ejecting the discs.

 

[racerx]

The problem is PSN. A hacked system can destablize the service, which may affect me as an end user too. It's not a pretty solution, but I much prefer them to keep those uncertainty out of PSN. If they end up spending resources to play this cat-n-mouse security game, then requests has to be secured (which translate to slowness to all users). e.g., the dynamic themes are unsigned today, and geohot is said to exploit it.

One can argue PS3 has lost a feature, then again, it has also gained a lot of features since I bought it. I used to use PS3 Linux quite a bit. It's a loss to me too. However I really do prefer them to focus on games rather than security.

Such a sensible post. I'm annoyed too, while I haven't used linux yet, I certainly wanted to fool around with it. Whether its banning users or removing unsecured features, MS and Sony are both in the right to do what it takes to secure their system. In the long run it's really what's best for the majority of consumers.

 

[TONX]

I have YDL installed and i havent used it in almost a year. I honestly don't care about losing Linux.

I just want to know what ADDED features are coming out of this update.

 

[-PXG-]

That's before the geohot incident though. Plans can change in the face of threats.



I don't know. You sound as bad as the people who downplayed PS3 Linux loss.



That's because you are only looking at the PS3 hardware as a standalone unit. With OtherOS hypervisor access, they can launch more sophisticated attacks on *PSN*

Has that ever happened? If so, then I guess that is a good reason to disable it.

 

[Tellaerin]

Taking away this feature is absolutely unnecessary. Sure, most people admittedly didn't use it or didn't utilize it to it's fullest. But that doesn't mean that it has to be eliminated.

Which is why it seems pretty obvious that it's being done for a reason, most likely to plug a security hole (which they're naturally not going to advertise). Otherwise why would they spend the man-hours coding a patch to remove it? Do you think they just decided to do this for the hell of it?

 

[Somnid]

Frankly, I can't give a shit about Sony's side of the situation when they give a bullshit excuse like that. I rather them be more honest "This is in regards to the Hypervisor hack and us protecting our work" instead of "security issues," but hey, I'm a curious person and don't like shady answers.

This is splitting hairs to an extreme. "Security Issues" isn't mislabeling anything, PS3 security has been compromised, the extent of which is not currently known. Maybe you just didn't understand? They aren't talking about viruses.

Also, people gave the same bullshit when Wii was first cracked. They wondered why Nintendo was so keen on trying to fix security exploits used only for homebrew until USB loaders showed up and the rest was history. OtherOS was Sony's olive branch to the homebrew community, and people just couldn't stop there, so now we have nothing.

 

[TheSeks]

Via Slashdot (from where I read the news and droped by here), Sony Computer Entertainment management said just a month ago Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.

*hahahaohwow.jpg*

Saying piracy is the reason why Sony is taking away the OtherOS is flat out retarded. Piracy doesn't exist with the PS3. The hypervisor was JUST cracked. It would be ages until any kind of bootloaders, ISO rips or any REAL piracy would exist. Even if such things happened, Sony could simply come out with a patch to the GameOS, and BAM...back to square one.

Yep, or simply remove the feature if you wanted to continue using PSN (which is what they're doing now instead of later), but hey: DEM PIRATES, MAN! DEM PIRATES!

Seriously, it scares me how pro-corporation GAF is sometimes.

Spoiler

I think some of them are kinda scared to say their true feelings on GAF due to the piracy quagmire/mods,

however yeah it's crazy how brainwashed some people are. Unless you have stock in the company why should you give two shits what they're doing on their side. You bought hardware that had promised featured. Removing features later is bullshit, even more so with a shady answer.

 

[soldat7]

Seriously, it scares me how pro-corporation GAF is sometimes. Unless you guys are working for them or making money from investing, there is no reason why you should be defending them.

Saying piracy is the reason why Sony is taking away the OtherOS is flat out retarded. Piracy doesn't exist with the PS3. The hypervisor was JUST cracked. It would be ages until any kind of bootloaders, ISO rips or any REAL piracy would exist. Even if such things happened, Sony could simply come out with a patch to the GameOS, and BAM...back to square one.

It's also scary how anti-corporation GAF is sometimes. And again, we don't know for certain what Sony's motivation was for removing this feature. We also can't assume to know what internal engineers at Sony know about this particular exploit.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Bingo, it's a feedback loop. This is why people should give a shit about Sony's side of the situation.

You...really aren't that bright, are you?

It's also scary how anti-corporation GAF is sometimes. And again, we don't know for certain what Sony's motivation was for removing this feature. We also can't assume to know what internal engineers at Sony know about this particular exploit.

What's scarier is how anti-consumer GAF is all the time.

 

[scotcheggz]

This doesn't really bother me, since I own a slim now, but I did run Linux on my old 60gb unit back in the day. It worked pretty well as a substitute whilst I was inbetween laptops, but doing anything outside of chat or internet browsing wasn't really very good anyway. Perhaps it has come a long way since then? Had watching videos improved at all? I remember trying to watch some avi files I had on it once, it was basically a nightmare, but they were quite high res, not HD, but not far off.

I guess I can understand some of the rage this will undoubtedly kick up though. Especially since sony used to boast about the linux capability quite a lot and how they give that freedom to the consumer. Also, if you did use Linux as a staple PC this would really stink, though I commend your patience if you did :lol

I suppose, to look at it in a positive light, it's swings and roundabouts. Lose a feature that was probably not used by many to improve the security and stop piracy... That is if this is the real reason Sony is removing this.