Support NeoGAF

[Tellaerin]

So true lol. "Other OS" is the only thing that kept the hackers that only want Linux from hacking the PS3 to get Linux on.

Except that this isn't going to magically disable the PS3 Linux boxes already out there. Anyone who 'only wants Linux' and bought the machine just to play with a Cell-based Linux box can skip the update. Sure, that means giving up PSN and online play, but if all they care about is hobby hacking, then that shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[JaseC]

This thread is amazing.

I've never before witnessed dozens of people running around screaming, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

 

[Shadow780]

Sucks for the minority, life moves on.

 

[Mako_Drug]

This is such a canned reaction to the extreme, speaking of the complainers.

It comes down to 2 things:

1) Nobody uses this shit. Nobody as in such a small proportion that it would not effect Sonys business to piss them off.

2) Everyone would pirate. If people believe Sony isn't in a good position now then what would it be like with a significant chunk of their software sales taken off.

This is a defensive move by Sony and I don't see how anyone could reasonably argue they should do anything else.

Imagine how compromised the trophy system, which way more people care about, would be if the system got hacked.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I repeat: if the best of the hacking community had been trying, the PS3 would have been cracked.

Now, I'm not saying the OtherOS was the main reason they haven't been trying, a lot of it has to do with the PS3 not being a very popular system in general for the first couple years, but this is pretty much throwing down the gauntlet.

Sorry, but I'm not so infatuated with Sony that I think their security is tighter than the Pentagon's.

Is this also why all other less popular systems weren't hacked?

Wait...

 

[Kittonwy]

The hyperventilating in this thread is pretty awesome. :lol

Fact: The PS3 Slim already had Linux support pulled. The writing was on the wall at that point. There are no longer any PS3s for sale which ever had Linux support.

Fact: The PS3 Linux implementation was so crippled as to be virtually useless. From the beginning, Sony thought about nothing but piracy and so the PS3 Linux was so locked down it was funny. Not even being able to pretend there was a GPU was the best part because the hypervisor saw to it that it didn't exist in the Linux environment.

Fact: Sony has been crazed paranoid about piracy ever since their experience with the PSP. It is not an exaggeration to claim that piracy was at least 75% of the nails in that machine's coffin. PSP hardware sales have never been poor, in fact it would be considered as quite successful by any metric other than Nintendo's insane portable sales numbers. What's killing PSP is nonexistent software sales, because everyone and their mother pirates PSP games.

So, these 3 facts point to an unavoidable truth. The moment that Geohot guy posted on the Internet that he had found an exploit to access the hypervisor from the Linux environment, it was over. Sony was not going to risk another PSP-like situation with the PS3, they would prefer to shut down the Playstation division and link all the PS3s in the world into Skynet and launch nuclear missiles to bring about the end of mankind rather than allow piracy on the PS3. That's how apeshit insane paranoid they are about piracy. Remember, this is the Sony that thought installing rootkits on the computers of Sony music CD owners was actually a good idea.

At this point I'm just glad that Sony isn't releasing firmwares that disable all phat PS3s entirely, requiring phat owners to trade them in for Slims at no charge if they wanted to keep using their consoles. :lol

Am I the only person who thinks Sony did the right thing attempting to crush any chance of people hacking the system through linux or any other means?

I don't want to see the system hacked, ever. I would love to see at least one console maker able to keep the system piracy-free at least for one generation.

 

[Crisis]

Oh, Sony.

This is only going to make the hackers actually try.

On the one hand this is how I feel about it. However on the other hand Sony literally cannot afford for PS3 to become a system where piracy runs rampant. They actually need to prevent piracy.

I have some questions for those of you complaining about this, and it is somewhat of a legitimate complaint. For those who have never used it what's the problem? Is it the perceived subtraction of features? They've never really advertised it as such - it's just been an interesting sidenote about PS3. For those of you who do use it, isn't it crippled beyond any really useful purpose? It's basically a novelty at this point anyway, unless you got a whole bunch of PS3s. At some point they have to do something about warding off piracy on this system and I think that's something we can all agree on. And yes I'm aware that right now there is no piracy on PS3. But apparently the key to the entire theoretical thing is to use an exploit through OtherOS. PS3 is the only system ever made that natively supported Linux out of the box - crippled or not. So when some asshole keeps trying to crack PS3 through the OtherOS function for the explicit purpose of piracy then doesn't Sony have an obligation to itself and to its developers and partners to stop that?

 

[Truespeed]

If this is their paranoid response to the useless and ineffective hack attempt then they need to be taken to task for this stupid decision. I really hope someone takes them to court so they can knock some sense into this backward thinking company. This company just can't seem to stop embarrassing themselves. It's just unfathomable that a company this large doesn't have the intelligence to discern what is right and what is wrong for the platform. Hey, Sony, that cat is out of the bag and those people that are using the Other O/S feature for purposes you didn't intend aren't going to install that update so your useless update equates to nothing more than another example or your incompetence.

Of course, the above verbal lashing is all based on whether this rumor is true or not.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

You are unfortunately wrong here. The PS3 hasn't been hacked because the pirates simply haven't found a vector. Every hack of a closed system requires a point of entry, a flaw that can be exploited. Actually, the 360's hypervisor hasn't been hacked either, all existing 360 hacks are done by exploiting the DVD-ROM drive, a vulnerable off-the-shelf component. There's no way to exploit the PS3's Blu-ray drive in the same way because it's a custom Sony drive which is only made for the PS3 and no other machine.

Both the PS3 and 360 have stood hard and fast against hacking because Sony and MS invested a lot of time and effort into locking that shit down airtight and the hypervisor was the key because it runs below the operating system level. 360 and PS3 firmware updates necessarily cannot update, modify, or even touch the hypervisor, they don't even know it exists. The operating system itself is managed code on the 360 and PS3, and game code runs on even tighter restrictions.

Having Linux on the PS3 was always inherently insecure, but Sony was willing to risk it before since they could check a checkbox or someshit when PS3 launched that MS couldn't. Now everyone knows PS3 Linux is a joke anyways, and the reality is that Sony loses money on every PS3 so any PS3 they sell to someone who wants to run Linux and not games, they are actually pissing money away, which is probably one reason why Linux support was already removed from the Slim.

Your labeling of hackers as "pirates" pretty much tips your hand as to your angle. Anyway, I'm sure you're right and the PS3 is the most secure piece of technology ever created, because Sony-sama Sony-sama Sony-sama.

Well, I certainly don't care about this feature at all (I use a Slim) and I don't feel like carrying on a fight with the already large crowd of Sony Soldiers that are disagreeing with me, so I'm outta here. Have fun, gang.

 

[TouchMyBox]

Well, that's one way to get people motivated to try and hack the system and open the floodgates to piracy...

 

[zerokoolpsx]

I guess I'm not updating for a while then.

 

[No_Style]

Are there actually individuals who are upset over this?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yeah, it's a portable system with a bad selection of portable games when compared to the competition (DS and iPhone, both also suffering pretty badly from piracy). Sony has also muddied the market by releasing the terrible PSP Go and removing all incentive for existing users to keep buying retail UMD games. Piracy isn't the problem with the PSP, it's the poor market positioning of the device and the general lack of public support because of it. Why should casual gamers buy a PSP? Nintendo and Apple have sold their devices well and reaped the benefits.

tldr - Piracy isn't the problem on the PSP.

Sorry for the off topic rant.

Nintendo DS: 125 million sold worldwide as of the end of 2009.

iPhone: 43 million sold worldwide as of 2010, and MOST are not used for games.

PSP: 60 million sold worldwide as of the end of 2009.

I'm sorry, but what the fuck else is Sony supposed to do to convince you the PSP is a successful hardware platform. The hardware has absolutely been a success, it's the fact that everyone steals PSP games which scares developers and publishers away and creates the bad selection of games. The hardware installed base is there, it's just that most of that hardware is running custom firmware and pirated games.

 

[Kittonwy]

Oh, Sony.

This is only going to make the hackers actually try.

They shouldn't, one day a console maker might rig the thing to blow the fuck up if you even tweak a screw on the outside.

 

[x3sphere]

Despite the fact that it may not be used by many, OtherOS is a nice perk and it's a shame to see it go. I have a feeling this could backfire on Sony, as hackers aren't exactly going to take kindly to the news. If anything, this will motivate them to step up their game.

 

[alr1ght]

Despite the fact that it may not be used by many, OtherOS is a nice perk and it's a shame to see it go. I have a feeling this could backfire on Sony, as hackers aren't exactly going to take kindly to the news. If anything, this will motivate them to step up their game.

I really doubt it. The Slim doesn't even have the OtherOS option, and it hasn't opened up the floodgates for linux nerds wanting to install it on their slims.

 

[No_Style]

If this move actually motivates hackers to try harder, so be it. At least Sony could say to their investors and other publishers that they tried their best to secure the system. Better to be proactive than to wait and hope nobody finds something via the OtherOS.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Your labeling of hackers as "pirates" pretty much tips your hand as to your angle. Anyway, I'm sure you're right and the PS3 is the most secure piece of technology ever created, because Sony-sama Sony-sama Sony-sama.

Well, I certainly don't care about this feature at all (I use a Slim) and I don't feel like carrying on a fight with the already large crowd of Sony Soldiers that are disagreeing with me, so I'm outta here. Have fun, gang.

ROFL, I specifically mentioned the 360 as well, a machine which has never supported Linux, which doesn't even have a web browser, and this is your response? I'm sorry, but good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the way out o this thread. You are utterly clueless. If you actually think anybody who thinks this isn't a bad idea is a 'Sony Soldier', I'm sorry, you are way too tentacle willing and I'm just not a tentacle rapist. :lol

 

[Kittonwy]

ITT: The doublethink train keeps rolling.

The first thing I did when I put a 250GB HDD in my launch PS3 was install Linux. It's convenient and it's good for coding practice. It'd never be a better computer than my old Q9450 w/ 4GB ram (which has now been long-sold), but where else would I practice my Cell programming?

I took my PS3 home in February and probably won't touch it until at least Summer 2011. After the ugly XMB redesign, whole calendar SNAFU and now this, I guess it'll be an offline-only machine from now on. Considering it was primarily used as a PS2 upscaler and BD player it's probably for the best too.

So you don't play any PS3 games at all?

 

[TheSeks]

Oh boy, I can't just wait for Sony to kill my ability to play PS2 games because the Slim doesn't have it. SOAWESOME.jpg

Spoiler

SMH, Sony, even if Linux was gimped by you yourselves

 

[K' Dash]

you couldn't be more wrong. i can tell you from first hand, second hand, and third hand accounts that piracy has scared off probably over 90% of potential development for psp. publishers and devs don't want to touch this machine anymore. there is an awful lot of software, good and bad, that would exist for the psp and doesn't specifically because of piracy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't the DS easier to pirate? piracy is not the main problem, bad marketing and poor choices made the system what it is today.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Never used the feature. Don't care.

 

[Lain]

Sony really sucked this generation.

Still, I don't know who's worse, Sony, constantly removing shit from the PS3, or the Sony loyalists and apologists.
A shitty move is a shitty move, I don't understand why it's so hard to admit it.

I still remember how people made fun of those "fools" buying avatars and themes on the X360, while the great Sony gave them away for free.
As soon as Sony started selling them as well, those people weren't unhappy, nope, they were quite happy.

And now, just as it was a good move in their eyes to remove BC from the PS3, it's a good move to remove more shit from the PS3, only this time they are removing something from the PS3 people bought years ago.

This reminds me my fuck you Sony thread. Once again, fuck you Sony.

 

[Duke Togo]

Manufactured outrage.

 

[C-Jo]

Never used the feature. Don't care.

Seriously.

 

[Costanza]

I hope this gets me my 10 gigs of space back.

 

[expy]

This thread's starting to feel like the underside of a bridge.

 

[Y2Kev]

This reminds me my fuck you Sony thread. Once again, fuck you Sony.

found gomu gomu's alt

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Hmm, I tried this function the day the PS3 came out, but I never used it outside of that. I do however still use the PS2 Backwards compatibility though.

 

[The Faceless Master]

it's almost as if Sony *wants* the PS3 to be hacked.

 

[Kittonwy]

Sony really sucked this generation.

Still, I don't know who's worse, Sony, constantly removing shit from the PS3, or the Sony loyalists and apologists.
A shitty move is a shitty move, I don't understand why it's so hard to admit it.

I still remember how people made fun of those "fools" buying avatars and themes on the X360, while the great Sony gave them away for free.
As soon as Sony started selling them as well, those people weren't unhappy, nope, they were quite happy.

And now, just as it was a good move in their eyes to remove BC from the PS3, it's a good move to remove more shit from the PS3, only this time they are removing something from the PS3 people bought years ago.

This reminds me my fuck you Sony thread. Once again, fuck you Sony.

Didn't Sony add in-game messaging and cross-game text chatroom? Did you tell Sony to fuck off then?

Personally I didn't think removing BC was a good move for the consumers, Sony simply couldn't afford to keep including the chip, actually you can still find free themes on PSN.

 

[Animator]

This is going to effect about %0.00000000000000001 of the userbase.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I hope this gets me my 10 gigs of space back.

i'm guessing no... unless you backup, format, restore.

 

[racerx]

You're comparing piracy to using OtherOS? Really?

actually, you don't have to initiate the firmware update. You can keep your old firmware with the other OS.

 

[lupin23rd]

Sony gets rid of Linux support?

Now we just need the companies who make Linux to do so as well.

But maybe this will be the reason for an upcoming price cut :lol

 

[TheFallen]

Sucks that they're removing features that enticed (some?) buyers. Doesn't matter to me though, I never used it.

 

[Kagari]

Yeah, don't care.

 

[Tellaerin]

Still, I don't know who's worse, Sony, constantly removing shit from the PS3, or the Sony loyalists and apologists.
A shitty move is a shitty move, I don't understand why it's so hard to admit it.

Some people can understand the necessity behind it. Others obviously can't. And considering how small a segment of PS3 owners seemed to have any interest in installing OtherOS, it strikes me as a little suspect how bent out of shape people are getting over this. Why this big outcry over losing Linux on the PS3? It's not even an option for Slim owners to begin with, and by all accounts, the PS3 isn't exactly the best Linux box in the world. So why is it that so many people are outraged? What do they feel Sony's depriving them of, exactly?

 

[expy]

Hackers can go all they want, and attempt to "hack" the PS3. This update doesn't stop them from doing so, they just won't have to update the firmware on their PS3s. They haven't figured a way to hack it yet, and it'll still be a long time before anything significant comes from their work.

 

[Azerach]

WTF is happening in this thread i dont even- !?!

 

[Massa]

Some people can understand the necessity behind it. Others obviously can't. And considering how small a segment of PS3 owners seemed to have any interest in installing OtherOS, it strikes me as a little suspect how bent out of shape people are getting over this. Why this big outcry over losing Linux on the PS3? It's not even an option for Slim owners to begin with, and by all accounts, the PS3 isn't exactly the best Linux box in the world. So why is it that so many people are outraged? What do they feel Sony's depriving them of, exactly?

Something they paid for.

 

[Master Z]

And now, just as it was a good move in their eyes to remove BC from the PS3, it's a good move to remove more shit from the PS3, only this time they are removing something from the PS3 people bought years ago.

You do realize that they got rid of PS2 BC because they were desperate to cut costs, right? Sony fucked up so they needed to do what they needed to do to survive. Sure losing PS2 BC sucks for some people but I'd rather see Sony stay in business and keep making games for me to play.

So on that note, if losing an obscure OS that I and most other people don't give a fuck about helps prevent piracy, then so be it. Cry moar.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Sony really sucked this generation.

Still, I don't know who's worse, Sony, constantly removing shit from the PS3, or the Sony loyalists and apologists.
A shitty move is a shitty move, I don't understand why it's so hard to admit it.

I still remember how people made fun of those "fools" buying avatars and themes on the X360, while the great Sony gave them away for free.
As soon as Sony started selling them as well, those people weren't unhappy, nope, they were quite happy.

And now, just as it was a good move in their eyes to remove BC from the PS3, it's a good move to remove more shit from the PS3, only this time they are removing something from the PS3 people bought years ago.

This reminds me my fuck you Sony thread. Once again, fuck you Sony.

:lol :lol

 

[K' Dash]

What do they feel Sony's depriving them of, exactly?

It was maybe the only way to get homebrew/piracy working on the console?

I'm just saying.

 

[Tellaerin]

Something they paid for.

Wrong. You can still use your PS3 as a Linux box, if that's what you want.

 

[∀ Narayan]

This would only be an April Fool's joke if the firmware update allowed for proper playback of PAL content on NTSC consoles.

 

[Truespeed]

"Howard, unless you want a penguin head in your bed, I would ask you to re-consider"

 

[x3sphere]

I really doubt it. The Slim doesn't even have the OtherOS option, and it hasn't opened up the floodgates for linux nerds wanting to install it on their slims.

Well, we'll see. The big difference is that everyone knew the slimline model did not have OtherOS support beforehand, Sony was upfront with that. Also, at the time, non-slimline units were still readily available. Those wanting Linux support could easily pick one up. Thus, no one got overly angry/vocal about it.

 

[Tain]

Not being able to play new games just because you want to keep a feature that was supposed to always be there is pretty bullshit.

 

[Massa]

Wrong. You can still use your PS3 as a Linux box, if that's what you want.

Right, I just can't do the other stuff I also paid for.

The fanboy logic is incredible.