anexanhume
Member
I mentioned all first party exclusives, you talk about framerate differences.
Waaah?
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PS4 is quite the engineering marvel
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
I mentioned all first party exclusives, you talk about framerate differences.
Waaah?
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
The console sure does catch up IN SOFTWARE effeciency, but that doesn't make it an engineering marvel.
To be fair, from what I've read the 4 core variant would work well enough for general laptops at well. It's more or less a bargain model though, and is thus aimed at netbooks.
Between the extra cores, and the fact that the PS4's going to be running off a less bulky, more efficient OS, the CPU will be fine.
Also, I'd only call the GPU mid-range, if you're the sort of person that considers to nVidia Titan a viable and legitimate card for high end users. Exclude the absurd cards that cost well over five hundred dollars, and the PS4 GPU suddenly falls into the high end camp.
The more modest side of the high end, sure, but still.
amstradcpc
Member
600 Gflops of difference or 2 Xbox 360 of difference.PS4 could draw two CODs in the rear mirrors of Forza while the X1 mirrors are blank...
Eclectic Jabber Monkey
Member
I have 3 friends with PS3 fats that died, I'd prefer a console thats bigger and has better airflow to one that skips a few inches for a smaller design.Personally, I'd wait a couple years before making a call on the engineering. Lost too many consoles last generation.
It'll be interesting to see the innards of the PS4 and how they are handing cooling, especially if the power supply is internal. The Xbone prototype has a massive heatsink, hopefully the PS4 with its more powerful GPU does as well.
Well guess what, it does.
Can't say this isn't a nice piece of tech. I don't agree with calling it an engineering marvel though. Putting some components together is no groundbreaking new invention and any decently educated engineering team can pull this off. There are far more impressive things out there, although I have to say those can be hard to understand for the more common folk.
SneakyStephan
Banned
They put this gpu in laptops... without the 2cus disabled and with higher clockspeed, and the cpu is a laptop gpu.
There is nothing impressive about this.
If they fit a 7970 equivalent in small box with some innovative cooling system that would be impressive, laptop hardware in a case 4x thicker than a laptop is not.
But as usual, people comparing things to other consoles instead of with proper perspective.
Same kind of people who are blown away by 1080p (in 2013 lol) or being able to do some basic multitasking (again in 2013, lol)
If I was your boss and saw this boss I'd hire someone new
There is nothing impressive about this.
If they fit a 7970 equivalent in small box with some innovative cooling system that would be impressive, laptop hardware in a case 4x thicker than a laptop is not.
But as usual, people comparing things to other consoles instead of with proper perspective.
Same kind of people who are blown away by 1080p (in 2013 lol) or being able to do some basic multitasking (again in 2013, lol)
If I was your boss and saw this boss I'd hire someone new
Modern times Cairn
Banned
-Motherboard 25$
-GPU 75$
-CPU 75$
-Memory 100$
-Blu-ray 25$
-Hdd 50$
-Gamepad 25$
-Case, box, cables, etc 25$
=400$
-GPU 75$
-CPU 75$
-Memory 100$
-Blu-ray 25$
-Hdd 50$
-Gamepad 25$
-Case, box, cables, etc 25$
=400$
AranhaHunter
Banned
Fuck guys, I want a Wii sized PS3 now!! Damn it
Lol sorry, I was just thinking that because AFAIK the GPU and CPU are still separate on the PS3 and still 40nm. I was just throwing that out there lol I'm not even sure the PS3 could be reduced to Wii size due to required HDD, unless the HDD was replaced by non upgradable SSD. I'm not even sure Sony is gonna bother further reducing the PS3 due to wanting to reduce the PS4 for its inevitable revision.
The fact that the PS4 is not BC, having a wii sized PS3 would be ace though as it wouldn't take much space on the stand next to your ps4.
And I'll ask this again because of the impressive PS2 - PSTwo picture:
Do we have a similar picture for:
PS3 fat, PS3 slim, PS3 latest slim
360 fat, 360 slim, 360 mini
Wii, wii mini
Handhelds too, if you can (i.e. DS, 3DS, PSP), but if not that's ok.
amstradcpc
Member
Your memory figures are wrong.
You have no idea what you're writing about.
amstradcpc
Member
Then X1 design is a disaster as its GPU is almost a tablet one.
anexanhume
Member
Those parts are also heavily binned. They only need to make tens of thousands of them. Not millions. The ones that don't pass that strict binning become 7850's. The ones that don't pass ps4 binning go in the trash. They can't afford to bin it like that. Not comparable.
Do you realize that the top end single card GPU TDPs have doubled since the Xbox 360 launch? Go compare a X1900 to a Titan or 7970. That's why consoles can't fit top end GPUs anymore, it's because the GPUs have ballooned to 200 to 250W by themselves. It's simply not possible.
Indeed.
VanquishUK
Member
Yeah no.
blitzcloud
Banned
speaking of volumes...
the ps3 was 9m^3
the xbox one is 7m^3
the ps4 is 4,5m^3
And thats not counting that the xbox one is gonna need a powerbrick.
Jesus.
I think they thought more about the 80-90% of launch consoles that are probably dead by now due to overheat. Their solution seems lazy and risky. The vents on the ps4 are either on the back side or protected by the top roof.
the ps3 was 9m^3
the xbox one is 7m^3
the ps4 is 4,5m^3
And thats not counting that the xbox one is gonna need a powerbrick.
Jesus.
I think they thought more about the 80-90% of launch consoles that are probably dead by now due to overheat. Their solution seems lazy and risky. The vents on the ps4 are either on the back side or protected by the top roof.
It's not really surprising when you think about what it has in it. The real question is why is the Xbox One so damn big? They have a ton of empty space in the case. These components do not have a high power or cooling requirements.
Man, the PS3 was a behemoth. CELL was a huge mistake.
blitzcloud said:
Man, the PS3 was a behemoth. CELL was a huge mistake.
It has to be, all the connector ports [except power] are on the top half of the console.
:lol
Oh, it's possible, it's just not a good idea since it would involve very hot, very expensive, very high TDP consoles. We should all be glad Sony and Microsoft went the way they did; Sure, they're not beating high end PCs, but that really hasn't been the norm since hardware acceleration took off. Even in '05/'06, it only "kinda-sorta-barely" happened.
Probably. It's the only logical explanation apart from Sony using some weird I/O riser card with a trapeze fetish.
They're just playing it safe after the RROD..
partime
Member
What are you talking about, the Xbox One is MASSIVE in person, and that's not even looking at the power brick.
What are you comparing it to, a full sized desktop computer?
That's a good HTPC you got there.
That's what consoles are nowadays.
Yep, that's all I said. I didn't address the technical or power side that was exactly what we were talking about there.
High five.
SneakyStephan
Banned
They use an underclocked, partly disabled chip , that in its full ungimped form in a laptop uses 65watts of peak power, not 100+watts (let alone 200+watts as you love to imply)
They don't need to bin these parts for ps4 because they underclock them to begin with. (and disable 2 cus)
Your argument doesn't hold up at all since this gpu is not a 200 or even 150+W high end desktop gpu , that is the whole frigging point, and that is why it isn't impressive.
These baseless comparisons to geforce titans and gtx 580s etc are really annoying, it's the same useless argument that was made before we got the first spec leaks for ps4/xb-one for why we supposedly couldn't have anything equivalent to a gtx 580 in the console boxes.
Because people just went hurrrrrrrrrrrr gtx 580 300w chip durrrrr, ignoring that it's a high clocked 40nm based chip.
A low voltage low clockspeed 28nm smaller die gpu does not use much power, that's why it's used in laptops...
Anyhow, back to the original point: if they couldn't easily cool a <100W gpu and a low clocked laptop cpu (both frigging designed to be cooled inside a laptop shell at higher clocks) in a box that is 4x the volume then something would be very very wrong.
anexanhume
Member
599 US dollars too. The market can't handle that.
No to all of that. It's not "underclocked" or "partially disabled". This is a custom part designed to run specifically at the frequency they're using it at and with exactly 18 CUs. It's unlikely they're adding die space just to disable some CUs for yield. That's a desktop strategy where disabled CUs can become another part (7970 to 7950 e.g.). That doesn't happen here.
Also, the part is definitely 100W, see here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7970M.72675.0.html Since it is stringently binned, you can assume most parts would run above 100W. (Granted, the card includes the RAM, but that's less than 10W).
It's a completely separate, custom die from the 7850. I don't know what else to tell you there.
That's not even the basis of my argument. I'm sorry you don't get that.
The console market is very price sensitive. The high end enthusiast GPU market is not. Again, sorry you don't get that either.
Here, I'm going to ignore number of transistors and die size and then make a claim based on process size, voltage and clock speed. What could go wrong????
Right i know nothing about cpus and gpus but would a laptop gpu and a gaming console customised version of that same laptop gpu not be entirely different?
due to just well everything since the laptop gpu would have the same overheads as a pc which is why if you want a gaming experience on a pc/laptop on par with a gaming console,
it costs far more since you account for overheads since pcs/laptops do everything while gaming consoles are focused on gaming
so even though the gpus are the same the efficiency aren't the same due to customisation
in both hardware and software departments?
am i right in thinking that or is that not how it works?
due to just well everything since the laptop gpu would have the same overheads as a pc which is why if you want a gaming experience on a pc/laptop on par with a gaming console,
it costs far more since you account for overheads since pcs/laptops do everything while gaming consoles are focused on gaming
so even though the gpus are the same the efficiency aren't the same due to customisation
in both hardware and software departments?
am i right in thinking that or is that not how it works?
Quote.
My 60GB launch PS3 is now running a 320GB HD, runs like a champ.
(knock on wood)
PS4 Day One for me.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
If that behemoth falls your apartment is screwed
CornBurrito
Member
Good to know. How long would it reasonably take for PC components to drop in price enough to make something with specs for a similar (or cheaper!) price?
Like you could ever get close to building a PC with these specs at the same size and slimness. The power supply alone would take a massive chunk of the space, as would the GPU.
And they included the broadband adapter
I wonder how much of that saved space was occupied by ps1 hardware, maybe they developed a super small S.O.C. or something?
mostly talking out of my ass on this one as I have very little idea of the internal architecture of the ps1/ps2 or how these things work.
Nemesis121
Member
Compared to XB1 it's a fucking marvel...
I can understand that the PS4 is small due to the APU they used. that plus hard drive, BRD, and RAM chips... shouldn't take up too much space.
What I don't understand is why the XBone is so friggin HUGE with a similar APU and similar size RAM chips, optical and hard drive. what is going on in that box? (Yes I've seen the pics of the inside). Is the motherboard way bigger to make room for extra chips dealing with the HDMI input and video manipulation? Did they throw in a way bigger fan than the PS4 so they could run it slower and make it more quiet?
And then, above all this, they didn't have room for an internal power supply!
I guess we'll need to see teardowns side by side to get an answer. But now, I just don't see why the XBone couldn't be about the same size of the PS4 - or at least the 360 slim.
What I don't understand is why the XBone is so friggin HUGE with a similar APU and similar size RAM chips, optical and hard drive. what is going on in that box? (Yes I've seen the pics of the inside). Is the motherboard way bigger to make room for extra chips dealing with the HDMI input and video manipulation? Did they throw in a way bigger fan than the PS4 so they could run it slower and make it more quiet?
And then, above all this, they didn't have room for an internal power supply!
I guess we'll need to see teardowns side by side to get an answer. But now, I just don't see why the XBone couldn't be about the same size of the PS4 - or at least the 360 slim.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Only it's as much 400 dollars as that 199 dollar iphone with the verizon plan is a 199 dollar phone... (another uncomfortable truth that usually gets some backlash on here)
If it really was 400 euros/dollars I would buy one, as I have bought a ps3, ps2 and 2 psxes in previous gens.
For the cost of ps4 and a full gen of paywall I can upgrade my pc and have money left over.
Why are you moving goalposts nib, isn't the OP's thread gushing about how the size of the box is a technological marvel? Isn't horse's post about that too? So why do you attack his post based on price?
Make it blue to fit the color scheme and it is good.
About 4 months I'd guess.
People comparing it to laptops are being silly, laptops don't have internal power supplies. Many of them also don't even have optical drives. You pull those two things out and they could have made it half as thick. Considering the price point, the fact that it will probably be pretty quiet, and that it's going to be manufactured by the millions, they did a pretty amazing job. Especially compared to the XBox One which is huge for no reason at all.
If you're going to include the price of PS+ for the whole gen, you should include the value add from a whole gen of PS+ games as well. It would be quite a lot.
I know it's an ironic pic but I'd love a display there, to show notifications, online friends or other stuff
This.