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[Blanquito]

More hardware/GPU features that were baked in, coming in the next weeks as well -- straight from Cerny.

Speaking to developers on site, several aspects of the checkerboard technology came into focus. Up until now, we've seen it as a software post-process upscale, but in actual fact, it's one of a number of new custom features backed into the PS4 Pro's GPU and as such comes with zero cost to game developers. We also understand that while it is a hardware feature, game-makers do seem to have a certain level of control - which may perhaps explain why different games exhibit varying levels of artefacting.

To its credit, Sony understands that a certain level of scepticism will persist here and to that end, several Sony developers on site told us that lead architect Mark Cerny will be going into the specifics of the custom hardware features in the next few weeks. Enticingly, we were also told that there was more to the GPU enhancements mentioned than just the checkerboard upscaler, so the details there should be fascinating.

Taken from Digital Foundry's excellent article, I thought it would be nice to focus on the development/hardware side of things.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-three-hours-with-playstation-4-pro

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

This is the tech Quantum Break used to get "1080p", correct?

 

[JeffGrubb]

This is the tech that Rainbow Six Siege used to get to 1080 on both consoles.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

okay so that is interesting .
Looking forward to reading about hardware in the up coming weeks.

 

[Blanquito]

This is the tech Quantum Break used to get "1080p", correct?

I believe so.

And also Rainbow 6 seige as well I think.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

This is the tech Quantum Break used to get "1080p", correct?

I believe it is.

 

[Hoje0308]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1275456

 

[killatopak]

Wasn't this already talked about in the leaked documents of NEO?

 

[Blanquito]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1275456

Right, that's focusing on the games themselves and general impressions. I think discussing this new news about how checkerboard rendering is offered in hardware at no cost to devs is important/cool information to get out in its own thread.

Wasn't this already talked about in the leaked documents of NEO?

I don't remember them saying that checkerboard rendering would be baked into the hardware, just that it was suggested that it be used. I could be wrong though.

 

[RoKKeR]

Glad we got some baking after all.

 

[codswallop]

DF goes into some detail on checkerboard upscaling in an older article: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-we-built-a-pc-with-playstation-neo-gpu-tech

(Edit: And I just noticed they link that article in their own article)

 

[etta]

Does this method result in a blurrier image in motion and sharper when still?

 

[Lord Error]

This is the tech Quantum Break used to get "1080p", correct?

It's the evolved version of the rendering tech used in the new Rainbow 6. I don't think think QB used the same technique (and what it had, ended up looking worse)

 

[Blanquito]

Does this method result in a blurrier image in motion and sharper when still?

From codswallup's link above, DF says about checkerboard rendering:

But what about the quality? Well, there is a slight softness in motion and hard aliased edges have an interesting dither pattern ... But the overall quality level holds up very well indeed

(Also as mentioned above, I think it's also used in Quantum Break and it is for sure used in Rainbow Six Seige, so if you've played one of those then you've seen it in action -- or maybe not for QB, according to Lord Error)

 

[SlimySnake]

Ummm. Quantum break looked blurry as Fuck. Rainbow six looks soft as well compared to uncharted and infamous.. No thanks.

 

[HTupolev]

Does this method result in a blurrier image in motion and sharper when still?

By itself, no; the checkerboard approach can technically stand alone with no temporal component. In practice, I imagine it'll probably tend to be combined with temporal reconstruction, which will cause image quality changes in motion.

 

[Ushay]

So this is what OnQ was going on about when he said it's more 'efficient' rendering instead of upscaling.

I'm sure there will still be a stark difference between native and this method?

 

[BigTnaples]

This is the tech Quantum Break used to get "1080p", correct?

It's what Shadowfall used to get the 1080p multiplayer that no one realized was not 1080p until months after launch.

 

[chubigans]

Ummm. Quantum break looked blurry as Fuck. Rainbow six looks soft as well compared to uncharted and infamous.. No thanks.

Both of those were sub 1080p games, which you're comparing to native 1080p games.

The difference here is that you're starting with a base of 1080p, which is huge. Basically, think of it as a sharper looking Uncharted and Infamous.

 

[Rocketz]

This is the tech that Rainbow Six Siege used to get to 1080 on both consoles.

Wait Seige is 1080p on XB1 because of this?

 

[BigTnaples]

I'm sure there will still be a stark difference between native and this method?

Well if you read the article the OP is about and links to, it states multiple times that although it looks a tad softer than native 4K, much of the benifits are still present and it is still a colossal upgrade over 1080p.

 

[HTupolev]

It's what Shadowfall used to get the 1080p multiplayer that no one realized was not 1080p until months after launch.

Tons of people realized the IQ was lower in MP. It just wasn't called out as spatially half-res because pixel counters were still relying on screenshots from static conditions. The argument that it didn't have significant IQ compromises because people didn't know what was causing the artifacts is silly.

This technique should be more powerful than Shadowfall's though, and the baseline resolution is much higher.

The difference here is that you're starting with a base of 1080p, which is huge.

A base of 2x1080p, actually.

 

[Foxxsoxx]

Wait Seige is 1080p on XB1 because of this?

900p I believe

I really hope they push showing the new hardware on TVs at Gamestops and Best Buy because I really want to see this in motion before committing to upgrade.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Ummm. Quantum break looked blurry as Fuck. Rainbow six looks soft as well compared to uncharted and infamous.. No thanks.

What your forgetting is that the sample sizes used were sub HD. In the hardware, the sample sizes are all around UHD, which will resolve the picture by itself infinitely better. And they have units inside to resolve the artifacting as well.

 

[Forever Changes]

It's what Shadowfall used to get the 1080p multiplayer that no one realized was not 1080p until months after launch.

Yes they did. I remember the thread.

 

[Hoje0308]

Right, that's focusing on the games themselves and general impressions. I think discussing this new news about how checkerboard rendering is offered in hardware at no cost to devs is important/cool information to get out in its own thread.



I don't remember them saying that checkerboard rendering would be baked into the hardware, just that it was suggested that it be used. I could be wrong though.

The focus of your thread is mentioned in the OP of the other, original thread.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yes they did. I remember the thread.

that was temporal upscaling.

 

[Milly Osworth]

The rise of checkers games on consoles?

 

[Rocketz]

900p I believe

This makes more sense because it sure doesn't look 1080 playing it.

 

[Caayn]

So this is what OnQ was going on about when he said it's more 'efficient' rendering instead of upscaling.

I'm sure there will still be a stark difference between native and this method?

He was talking about his magic "uprender" which he kept swapping the definition of depending on the situation and never managed to explain it clearly. The type of rendering talked about in the article was a thing long before the first Neo leak and onq123's magic "uprender" nonsense.

 

[BigTnaples]

Yes they did. I remember the thread.

The going theory was that it was a different form of AA. We knew the IQ was different, point is, the technique was good enough that it confused us as to what was different.

And as stated, these games will be starting off with a much higher base resolution of 2x 1080p, with evolved tequniques.

These games should look fantastic, and by all accounts they do.

 

[Leonidas]

Is it known whether the PS4 Pro will support 2560x1440 displays via settings?

With 1/2 of 4K being 12% higher resolution than 2560x1440 wouldn't this allow for a native 2560x1440 image with some downsampling?

Really hoping the support is there...

 

[Odrion]

I think that sort of scaling is extremely impressive, there's a difference between native and that but it's much better than the other scaling solutions I've seen.

With that + rendering games at 1440p or 1880p I think you'll get a noticeably better image quality on a 4K television than normal 1080p.

 

[onQ123]

#TeamDPU #TeamCU-Reservation #TeamMicrocode #TeamHardwareUpRenderingonyouBitches

 

[onQ123]

He was talking about his magic "uprender" which he kept swapping the definition of depending on the situation and never managed to explain it clearly. The type of rendering talked about in the article was a thing long before the first Neo leak and onq123's magic "uprender" nonsense.

I was right accept it

 

[GhostTrick]

I was right accept it

As right as Jeff Rigby. This isn't a more efficient way to render at 4k. It has its trades in IQ. Deal with it.

 

[onQ123]

As right as Jeff Rigby. This isn't a more efficient way to render at 4k. It has its trades in IQ. Deal with it.

Your comment don't even make sense. how is it not a more efficient way to get 4K when they are achieving 4K when everyone said they couldn't?

 

[HTupolev]

Your comment don't even make sense. how is it not a more efficient way to get 4K when they are achieving 4K when everyone said they couldn't?

It is not native spatial 4K rendering.

They're rendering 2x1080p, and guessing the other 2x1080p pixels based on the real spatial samples. It's literally upscaling.

 

[Forever Changes]

The going theory was that it was a different form of AA. We knew the IQ was different, point is, the technique was good enough that it confused us as to what was different.

But it was different in a negative way.

It is not native spatial 4K rendering.

They're rendering 2x1080p, and guessing the other 2x1080p pixels based on the real spatial samples. It's literally upscaling.

You won't get through to him lol.

 

[Caayn]

Nvm, I'm not going to talk to a wall.

 

[Reallink]

PSFauxK

 

[vpance]

It is not native spatial 4K rendering.

They're rendering 2x1080p, and guessing the other 2x1080p pixels based on the real spatial samples. It's literally upscaling.

Not quite though is it? It's guessing them with some knowledge vs stretching pixels, basically

 

[HTupolev]

Not quite though is it? It's guessing them with some knowledge vs stretching pixels, basically

There's not really a difference. You can use different sample patterns and different resolve filters, but it's all basically the same thing.

The checkerboard method being discussed here is quite nice; it gets good results, and should play very well with temporal AA.

 

[GhostTrick]

Your comment don't even make sense. how is it not a more efficient way to get 4K when they are achieving 4K when everyone said they couldn't?

Because they're not ? It's not native, the IQ isn't as good, it's a temporal/upscaled/callitwhateveryouwant, case closed.
Also, not everyone is saying they can't achieve native 4K. They definitely can. But not on all the games, that's for sure and that's already a reality.

 

[Odrion]

There's not really a difference. You can use different sample patterns and different resolve filters, but it's all basically the same thing.

The checkerboard method being discussed here is quite nice; it gets good results, and should play very well with temporal AA.

Yes, but it's a very good up-scaling method and we should welcome it.

 

[JustenP88]

Because they're not ? It's not native, the IQ isn't as good, it's a temporal/upscaled/callitwhateveryouwant, case closed.

That was never a possibility on games like the ones they showed today.

It seems to produce a pretty impressive effect, unless we think the DF guy is totally full of shit for some reason... Don't really see the need to be so smug and pedantic. This is as good as could have reasonably been expected.

 

[HTupolev]

Yes, but it's a very good up-scaling method and we should welcome it.

That was never a possibility on games like the ones they showed today.

It seems to produce a pretty impressive effect, unless we think the DF guy is totally full of shit for some reason... Don't really see the need to be so smug and pedantic. This is as good as could have reasonably been expected.

Nobody is disagreeing that it's a cool technique that gets good results.

 

[KnightimeX_Legacy]

Any screenshots or videos of this technique in action?

 

[Bishop89]

Are there examples of this being used vs not?
Don't really get what this is

 

[HTupolev]

Don't really get what this is

In a rough, very small nutshell.

Render the red pixels.
Calculate everything else.