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[Matt]

Excuse me but... what?

Basically, XBO sales have been particularly bad amoung the higher informed, more tech savvy userbase, who gravitated to PS4 early on. The UHD player was put in to try and appeal to that marketplace, who MS have determined are often "tastemakers."

Basically MS needed that bullet in their gun more than Sony does.

 

[border]

I don't know. If the average consumer that walks into a Best Buy or Walmart and asks why is the Pro $100 more than the slim likely get told because it's the most powerful and provides the best graphics. Not sure the conversation ever actually goes into the nuance of needing a 4K tv with HDR to get the best picture. I suspect in that situation a lot of people would look at the extra $100 being worth it for the PS4 that gives them the best graphics.

At this point, I feel like the people that will be swayed by the "most powerful" argument have already bought a console. If you stayed on PS3/360 for three years into a new generation, your primary concerns are mostly gonna be software library, affordability, and where your friends play. If you cared that much about power, you would have already bought the basic versions of XB1 or PS4. The reason for budget gamers to upgrade at this point is that their favorite franchises are no longer appearing on last generation consoles in proper form, and most people on their Friends list are playing on a different platform.

This will be a hurdle for the Scorpio as well, though.

 

[Salty Rice]

You're right. Sony is not MS. MS doesn't really benefit from supporting UHD at all, except by enticing people with a cheap player.

But Sony sells 4k TVs, they sell UHD discs, and they receive royalties from the format in general, so any success the format has, benefits them.

UHD disc sales are dependent on 4KTV sales, and 4K Player sales right? And Sony are missing an opportunity to increase the number of potential players out there. Plus, I don't think you could even buy players until this year, at least in any shops in AU.

Market isnt ready for the giant push of 4k blu ray yet to favor it for a much more cheaper price in Sony eyes. And they have the numbers so they would know.

 

[Ashtrax]

Market isnt ready for the giant push of 4k blu ray yet to favor it for a much more cheaper price in Sony eyes. And they have the numbers so they would know.

Exactly, the price to enter the UHD market is still substantially high vs full HD streaming.

And while everyone is going on about the lack of a player in the PS4 Pro, they will then be asking themselves after picking up an Xbox One Slim, "But the games will run better on PS4 Pro and I could have had that for just a little more."

Whether or not Sony intentionally, or mistakenly left the UHD drive out, the market is now split. People will decide whether they want a more powerful gaming device, or a UHD player.

The way I see it, it will land in Sony's favor for the next year, and possibly even into the release of the Scorpio, because MS will now have to consider the price point in their build.

 

[Crayon]

I think if sony included the uhd player, they system would have still had to be 399 and they would just have to eat the cost of the drive. But like Matt said, they didn't really need it so they just pocketed the money. Plus it'll be a handy feather in the cap of the future Pro-Slim.

 

[Platinum_D]

Imagine if Sony releases a cheaper PS4 Pro when the Scorpio launches and with a UHD 4K Player lol

 

[LostDonkey]

Imagine if Sony releases a cheaper PS4 Pro when the Scorpio launches and with a UHD 4K Player lol

PS4 ProPlus

 

[Rembrandt]

Basically, XBO sales have been particularly bad amoung the higher informed, more tech savvy userbase, who gravitated to PS4 early on. The UHD player was put in to try and appeal to that marketplace, who MS have determined are often "tastemakers."

Basically MS needed that bullet in their gun more than Sony does.

i think it's really interesting you're somehow an insider for both sony and microsoft.

i would also love to hear about where you heard that and the differences between this gen and the previous one.

 

[statham]

Imagine if Sony releases a cheaper PS4 Pro when the Scorpio launches and with a UHD 4K Player lol

that will increase the costs, Sony seems to be all about the profits right now. And I would imagine they want the Pro to be cheaper then Scorpio.

 

[Crayon]

i think it's really interesting you're somehow an insider for both sony and microsoft.

i would also love to hear about where you heard that and the differences between this gen and the previous one.

Oh no looks like Matt's on the shit list.

 

[shouamabane]

Imagine if Sony releases a cheaper PS4 Pro when the Scorpio launches and with a UHD 4K Player lol

I hope they do something along those lines.

 

[TheYanger]

Remember though...Sony doesn't even manufacture a consumer UHD bluray drive...I doubt they would source one from someone else for the PS4.

We know Sony tends to be on the expensive side of consumer electronics..it's likely we wouldn't be dealing with a simple $15 increase




No...

You can't simply throw out the HDD size...these are gaming machines, and the HDD size matters...the closest match to the Pro that MS has on the market spec for spec, is the 1tb Xbone S...period...

The S absolutely IS 150% competition to the Pro...The S is MS' current top console...the Pro is Sony's...they are in DIRECT competition..

The Scorpio is not competing with anything, because that is vaporware at this point

The HD size doesn't matter all that much when you can just add infinite space with more hard drives. Only Sony makes the HD size matter.

 

[Metfanant]

The HD size doesn't matter all that much when you can just add infinite space with more hard drives. Only Sony makes the HD size matter.

Wait...MS doesn't offer the S with 3 different HDD sizes?

So HDD doesn't matter to MS? Only Sony?

 

[Platinum_D]

I hope they do something along those lines.

If they do add it i can see it happening a year from now the UHD become cheaper and to counter the Scorpio but people would still complain..

 

[Robot Pants]

Makes no difference to me. If I buy a new 4K TV they will probably throw in a 4K bluray player as part of the deal.

Haha well you're delusional

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If you want further evidence- just look at PC gaming. The RX480 is priced at a "mainstream" price point of $199 and it selling gangbusters to a very "discerning" and "passionate" group of gamers that are willing to build their own PCs.

Except it's actually not. The nearly twice as expensive GTX 1070 is absolutely slaughtering the RX 480 in sales. The old conventional wisdom of the "mainstream" in PC gaming being the $200-300 price bracket was shattered last generation by the GTX 970 ($330) and this generation the top seller is the GTX 1070 ($380). The "mainstream" has moved up to the $300-400 price bracket, because PC gamers are in fact "discerning" and "passionate" and the sales prove it.

I thought about making a thread about this because the August 2016 Steam Hardware and Software Survey data is now available. It's clear that people don't understand how the "mainstream" has shifted in PC gaming so maybe I should.

 

[Sjefen]

MS really did a number on Sony by including a 4k blu ray player in the xbox one S. No one would have bothered otherwise.

 

[Metfanant]

MS really did a number on Sony by including a 4k blu ray player in the xbox one S. No one would have bothered otherwise.

What number did they do exactly?

 

[Sjefen]

What number did they do exactly?

number one

 

[Jesb]

Is it technically possible to make a patch for 4k support?

 

[Ashtrax]

What number did they do exactly?

S = 5? 4? Wait, wait wait, I can get this...

360?

 

[Tainted]

Is it technically possible to make a patch for 4k support?

No

 

[Bsigg12]

Is it technically possible to make a patch for 4k support?

Not if the drive isn't capable of supporting UHD discs. They are different from standard blurays

 

[thuway]

MS really did a number on Sony by including a 4k blu ray player in the xbox one S. No one would have bothered otherwise.

Which number is this? The one where Xbox is still not selling any better in terms of hardware and software worldwide. OR Is the number where Microsoft is massively discounting Xbox One S with 'limited time only PROMOTIONS' alongside aggressive bundles to try and remain relevant in the broader conversation when Playstation Pro dictates the console conversation until Scorpio launches 12 months later?


I'd argue the Playstation Pro has done quite a number on Xbox One S because it exists in a land where it's key differentiating feature is 4k UHD bluray playback.

 

[longdi]

At this point, I feel like the people that will be swayed by the "most powerful" argument have already bought a console. If you stayed on PS3/360 for three years into a new generation, your primary concerns are mostly gonna be software library, affordability, and where your friends play. If you cared that much about power, you would have already bought the basic versions of XB1 or PS4. The reason for budget gamers to upgrade at this point is that their favorite franchises are no longer appearing on last generation consoles in proper form, and most people on their Friends list are playing on a different platform.

This will be a hurdle for the Scorpio as well, though.

I feel the 399 price is an attractive one. People buys tons of tech toys these days. Xbox sales got a boost with the S model. The 4pro will give a more tangible improvement. No Blu-ray 4k disc, no problem for most of us.

4pro is just expanding the mid-gen refresh, not much difference from previous PlayStation, one more option is better for all, besides for the developers i guess.

Sony has clearly communicated this to us, publishers and developers, their plan is laid bare. They are also open to iterative no-gen consoles, but right now the 4pro is handled the same as the past.


Scorpio on the other, we are not sure about where MS is heading with their consoles, UWP and all, coming off the disaster of Xbox 1 and their w8/10 mobile push.

 

[belteshazzar]

This is indeed a pretty dumb decision seeing they want to push 4k forward... and that they own the 4k blu rat format...

 

[Gitaroo]

MS really did a number on Sony by including a 4k blu ray player in the xbox one S. No one would have bothered otherwise.

The thing that pushed the sales the most is probably the price more than anything. Now that the ps4 is also 300 with a slimmer box, the real fight begins.

 

[AgeEighty]

Andrew House, who heads up all things PlayStation, sez no.

This article appears to refute what House said.

 

[Crayon]

Which number is this? The one where Xbox is still not selling any better in terms of hardware and software worldwide. OR Is the number where Microsoft is massively discounting Xbox One S with 'limited time only PROMOTIONS' alongside aggressive bundles to try and remain relevant in the broader conversation when Playstation Pro dictates the console conversation until Scorpio launches 12 months later?


I'd argue the Playstation Pro has done quite a number on Xbox One S because it exists in a land where it's key differentiating feature is 4k UHD bluray playback.

 

[Matt]

This article appears to refute what House said.

Was that written by Jeff Rigby?

 

[dano1]

Ok. Who has even bought a regular blu Ray lately? Thought so.

Do you remember this thing called CD..

It all going digital people!!

And Sony knows it. Because they have the numbers.

 

[Tainted]

Ok. Who has even bought a regular blu Ray lately? Thought so.

You are delusional. Lots of people are buying Blu-rays....just because you aren't dont assume everyone isn't

Not everyone has super fast internet speeds to stream 4k (and in alot of cases HD) content still.

 

[Fredrik]

Imagine if Sony releases a cheaper PS4 Pro when the Scorpio launches and with a UHD 4K Player lol

Day 1 buyers would not be happy about that, PS4Pro is already bad enough for lots of people.

 

[rokkerkory]

Ok. Who has even bought a regular blu Ray lately? Thought so.

Do you remember this thing called CD..

It all going digital people!!

And Sony knows it. Because they have the numbers.

Guess there are still quite a few

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-bluray-sales-chart

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Ok. Who has even bought a regular blu Ray lately? Thought so.

Do you remember this thing called CD..

It all going digital people!!

And Sony knows it. Because they have the numbers.

Sorry, but no. People haven't bought any Blu-ray because there is no need to. UHD is what was suppose to make me buy 4K Blu-ray discs. I believe everyone who owns a current gen console, if given the option to purchase UHD Blu-ray and enjoy 4K, would get it. Sony blew it, plain and simple. It's a a shame that this could've made me buy more movies on 4K.

Digital media SUCKS when it comes to 4K. There is no way my internet or your internet or any streaming service has the capacity to push 100MB/S bitrate. So yeah, go ahead and enjoy your compressed digital movies.

PS3 and PS4 is my choice of blu-ray player. PS4 brings nothing new to the Blu-ray medium and I along with others see no need to dwelve into discs that are outdated.

 

[longdi]

Day 1 buyers would not be happy about that, PS4Pro is already bad enough for lots of people.

Why 4pro is bad for lots of people?
People loved that ps3 slim, pstwo, psone...

 

[Robot Pants]

This article appears to refute what House said.

Very interesting. I hope it's true but I sense Jeff rigby levels of conspiracy.

Edit: haha beaten

 

[tiredheadcrab]

This article appears to refute what House said.

Its been said in this thread that the article is inaccurate. No there will not be a firmware update to let the system play 4k blue rays.

 

[Ashtrax]

I'd argue the Playstation Pro has done quite a number on Xbox One S because it exists in a land where it's key differentiating feature is 4k UHD bluray playback.

Exactly! The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Everyone right here are now at a crossroads. Sony has manipulated the narrative here.

Do they pick up the Xbox One Slim for UHD Playback, knowing that Scorpio is about a year away?

Do they pick up the PS4 Pro, forfeiting the UHD Player, but get better gameplay experience on PS4 games and PSVR?

And then they think about what happens in a year for Scorpio, which if it is aiming for Native 4K, is going to cost an arm and leg?

 

[c0de]

This article appears to refute what House said.

W T F

 

[Hawk269]

Ok. Who has even bought a regular blu Ray lately? Thought so.

Do you remember this thing called CD..

It all going digital people!!

And Sony knows it. Because they have the numbers.

Then why is Sony planning to release a UHD Standalone player? Why has Sony already released UHD Movies on Disk? If Sony is so into the know and it is all going digital, why is Sony doing physical UHD disks and a player???

 

[Robot Pants]

Sorry, but no. People haven't bought any Blu-ray because there is no need to. UHD is what was suppose to make me buy 4K Blu-ray discs. I believe everyone who owns a current gen console, if given the option to purchase UHD Blu-ray and enjoy 4K, would get it. Sony blew it, plain and simple. It's a a shame that this could've made me buy more movies on 4K.

Digital media SUCKS when it comes to 4K. There is no way my internet or your internet or any streaming service has the capacity to push 100MB/S bitrate. So yeah, go ahead and enjoy your compressed digital movies.

PS3 and PS4 is my choice of blu-ray player. PS4 brings nothing new to the Blu-ray medium and I along with others see no need to dwelve into discs that are outdated.

THANK YOU. At least someone gets it.
If you spent the money on a 4K tv and knew that you really weren't getting all you could out of it with streaming (in fact you are only getting last-gen levels of quality), wouldn't you feel short changed?
If you had a UHD player and the movies cost the same, AND it looked better and REALLY showcases what your tv can do, wouldn't you use it? Of course you would.
They blew it.

 

[Matt]

Then why is Sony planning to release a UHD Standalone player? Why has Sony already released UHD Movies on Disk? If Sony is so into the know and it is all going digital, why is Sony doing physical UHD disks and a player???

Because the economics might be worth it for a stand alone player, but not as a part of the PS4.

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[etta]

Basically, XBO sales have been particularly bad amoung the higher informed, more tech savvy userbase, who gravitated to PS4 early on. The UHD player was put in to try and appeal to that marketplace, who MS have determined are often "tastemakers."

Basically MS needed that bullet in their gun more than Sony does.

Microsoft chose an UHD drive to appease enthusiast gamers who chose PS4 over the Xbox One due to better GPU?
Couldn't Microsoft have chosen something more, relevant?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Then why is Sony planning to release a UHD Standalone player? Why has Sony already released UHD Movies on Disk? If Sony is so into the know and it is all going digital, why is Sony doing physical UHD disks and a player???

Honestly? I would buy my favorite shows and movies if they're released in 4K and if I own a 4K player. Plain and simple! I'll pay top dollar for Mr. Robot on 4K, Star Wars Saga on 4K, Band of Brothers on 4K, Game of Thrones on 4K, and many many more.

Only in 4K because I have already experienced them in regular HD.

Xbox One S looks mighty pleasing...

 

[mrg6290]

This thread is going in circles and will repeat infinitely. I argued at length yesterday before I realize it was of no value.

A bunch of folks: "Why the outrage? Why do you care so much about a thing I don't care about. Sony obviously doesn't care about it either. How could you think it makes sense for it to be included?"

And the other side, who made the thread to discuss this in the first place: "I'm upset because Sony left out something I care about. It doesn't make sense for it to have been left out. Why don't others understand why this is important and ridiculous?"

These 2 sides will never meet because people won't allow themselves to be convinced one way or the other. Throw in a bit of console wars and it becomes an even bigger deal.

And just so I'm being transparent, I'm on the side that thinks this is a big omission and I'm butthurt about it. But I'm not going to argue until everyone on the internet agrees with me. I'm just going to buy a Pro and be sad about it and get UHD elsewhere, or not buy one and be sad about it and get UHD elsewhere.

 

[icespide]

This thread is going in circles and will repeat infinitely. I argued at length yesterday before I realize it was of no value.

A bunch of folks: "Why the outrage? Why do you care so much about a thing I don't care about. Sony obviously doesn't care about it either. How could you think it makes sense for it to be included?"

And the other side, who made the thread to discuss this in the first place: "I'm upset because Sony left out something I care about. It doesn't make sense for it to have been left out. Why don't others understand why this is important and ridiculous?"

These 2 sides will never meet because people won't allow themselves to be convinced one way or the other. Throw in a bit of console wars and it becomes an even bigger deal.

you just described the entirety of neogaf

 

[Ashtrax]

Then why is Sony planning to release a UHD Standalone player? Why has Sony already released UHD Movies on Disk? If Sony is so into the know and it is all going digital, why is Sony doing physical UHD disks and a player???

Ah... to cater to the high end Home Theater enthusiast market that has a huge 4K Dolby Vision projector, Dolby Atmos Receiver and 11 speakers, and standalone players for their separate content?

The general majority is not that market. They are not the ones to spend lots of money on replacing their entire library with UHD discs at $40 a pop. It is a niche market that turns a sizable profit for them for it's very low install base.

The PS4 market is not that. They want bang for buck. They want affordable entertainment for their kids.

Sony knows this, and this is why the PS4 Pro is $399 US. If Scorpio cannot get that cost down when it launches, it's going to be very interesting if people are willing to add another device as part of their regular upgrade cycle.

 

[mrg6290]

you just described the entirety of neogaf

Haha. You're probably right.

 

[foolishoptimist]

With that logic though, you would THINK, that Sony would be offering a stand alone UHD Bluray player...but they are not, and won't be in the near future...

So OBVIOUSLY...they do not feel that the market is currently ready to push these drives into people's homes..

If people are not buying these things at a high enough rate, it would do more harm than good to take on the R&D, and production costs associated with the hardware...

And Sony ARE continuing to put out UHD discs.
But Sony ARE making a player, announced as coming this Financial year.
So OBVIOUSLY they feel that there IS a market for players?

And OBVIOUSLY, having more players out there would increase that market.