Kai Ozu
Member
Is PS4 Pro being marketed to the average consumer?
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
Is PS4 Pro being marketed to the average consumer?
It also plays blurays. Just a reminder.
Your missing the point. The average consumer might be interested in 4K content, but not necessarily in Physical media. Netflix 4K, and premium download services (like Sony's own) offer an experience that is far more convenient and user friendly than investing into an entirely new disc format. Also the quality benefits of "4K UHD Bluray" is no where near the benefit when we jumped from 480p to 1080p.
I think the fact that Sony has no intention of even releasing a consumer UHD Bluray player until 2017 at the earliest is telling enough about their stance on the format itself...
Did I expect the Pro to be their first player? I did..it surprised me to find out it wasn't...but when you break it down, it makes more sense
Sure; I don't personally think this is a big mis-step.
Many Sony fans really wanted this thing to have BR UHD.. hence the disappointment.
I don't see too many people acting like this was a huge mistake that will cost Sony dearly; it's just a bit odd considering the focus on 4k and the relatively small cost for them to support it. Although some people underestimate how much $10-15 BOM matters to Sony; they aren't 2006 Sony throwing money down the drain for format wars. They are post-deep in the red Sony with a board of directors not willing to support big loss leaders anymore.
But the topic overall is pretty simple; people would rather the PS4 Pro support UHD BR. Fin.
Salty Rice
Member
It still does.
paperspace
Member
Eh, sure. A headphone jack has never been absolutely necessary, just like a phone has never been.
It's just semantics.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
At 399, sure.
Got the Shakes
Member
I guess we really don't know yet. The reveal obviously wasn't, but come time to actually advertise to the general public via tv and in store ads I wouldn't be surprised if they market it to the masses.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
yes
It's the price of the launch PS4, and the launch PS4 was marketed to the average consumer.
For Sony to maintain the same profit margin, sure. But for Sony to still make money off each console, I think they could have included a UHD drive. None of us can know for sure one way or the other.
I wanted one in a PS4 I plan on purchasing. I expected it to be there. I'm butt hurt (not outraged) and just really confused by the omission. The other thing I find surprising is how many people keep arguing people upset about this are somehow wrong, and those justify its absence or "gaming focus" are somehow right. It's all opinion and what each of us as an individual customer wanted. For many in this thread, Sony messed up.
MaulerX
Member
Come on bro, years went on because that's how long it took for Bluray to win the format war. By that time it was pointless to include it in the 360 because DVD's actually spun faster and Blurays were slower and that would had created an incompatibility problem with games already released.
At this price point? Yeah I think to an extent it is...the PS4 shows that you can move BIG numbers at $399
Obviously they will sell more Slim's...but at only $100 more, you're definitely going to still attract a lot of the "average" buyers come black Friday, and Christmas time
Agreed man. There is a radical belief that 4K Bluray is necessary and pivotal to the success of any machine going forward. The reality is- I implore those users who are championing the format to actually go to a store and compare 4K Bluray HD and 4K Streaming with HDR and compare the two. I've done this, and I've found the experience to be strikingly similar and almost not worth the hassle of getting a disc into a box.
I'm also a rare minority because I actually own a 144 inch 2.35:1 Widescreen custom projection screen and a 70 inch television. I have a 7.2 Setup and I just purchased FIVE more speakers to be Atmos ready- so 4K UHD Bluray HDR could benefit me far more than the "average" consumer. The point though is - even I'm becoming quite abrasive to the idea of another disc format. The real answer is to have a service that offers high quality UHD media w/ high bitrates and let users download it.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Except the 500GB Xbox One S is 100$ less than the PS4 pro, so it is 100 more. Also, the One S is not a competition to the Pro, but to the Slim as they are the exact same price. The competition to the Pro is the Scorpio and that will only be released next year.
Remember though...Sony doesn't even manufacture a consumer UHD bluray drive...I doubt they would source one from someone else for the PS4.
We know Sony tends to be on the expensive side of consumer electronics..it's likely we wouldn't be dealing with a simple $15 increase
No...
You can't simply throw out the HDD size...these are gaming machines, and the HDD size matters...the closest match to the Pro that MS has on the market spec for spec, is the 1tb Xbone S...period...
The S absolutely IS 150% competition to the Pro...The S is MS' current top console...the Pro is Sony's...they are in DIRECT competition..
The Scorpio is not competing with anything, because that is vaporware at this point
No. Thats why you ask.
-_- Creating artifical paramters to somehow specify a "competition" is not how it works.
Why do people say this? The PS4 Pro, PS4, and Xbox One S are all competing for your wallet. In fact, I'd throw shade at Sony too for being stupid enough to have a one hundred dollar delta between the PS4 Pro and PS4 Slim.
The PS4 Pro makes both the PS4 and Xbox One S looks like terrible values, and we don't know the price of the Scorpio just yet.
IchigoSharingan
Member
receipts?
PeterLegend
Member
Technically the Xbox One S, PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro are all competing for your money.
Why? Well shit they're available at the same time come November at very comparable prices, I mean $100 difference lol
Why? Well shit they're available at the same time come November at very comparable prices, I mean $100 difference lol
How is a $399 box not aimed at the mainstream? Sony deliberately chose this price because it's the one that got them 40 million users.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
This whole thing has been such a kneejerk, overreacted, non-issue, imo. It's been like watching people thoughtlessly pass "the wave" at a soccer game.
By the time I started getting interested in buying Blu-ray's of my favourite films into the PS3's lifespan there were already lots of other cheaper BR players. For the amount of times I used my PS3 for Blu-Ray movies I could have done away with the $600 price tag, but I wasn't bemoaning Sony's decision to include it, just liked I'm not pissed at the palatable $400 for the Pro. Either route has benefits and in today's tech environment, the effects will be marginal if anything... Nowadays there's Netflix et al to scratch that shiny 4K itch if one gets curious.
I really don't understand the outrage. At the end of the day it's just a gaming machine.
By the time I started getting interested in buying Blu-ray's of my favourite films into the PS3's lifespan there were already lots of other cheaper BR players. For the amount of times I used my PS3 for Blu-Ray movies I could have done away with the $600 price tag, but I wasn't bemoaning Sony's decision to include it, just liked I'm not pissed at the palatable $400 for the Pro. Either route has benefits and in today's tech environment, the effects will be marginal if anything... Nowadays there's Netflix et al to scratch that shiny 4K itch if one gets curious.
I really don't understand the outrage. At the end of the day it's just a gaming machine.
The launch PS4 was the cheapest point of entry for anyone looking to get into next generation content, and had the advantage of being much less expensive than the competition.
The PS4 Pro is competing against two consoles that are $100 cheaper. The average consumer will take the cheaper option, especially if the reason for buying the more expensive version is "Well if you have a 4K TV then some games will like upscale to 4K and you can watch some Netflix stuff in 4K."
Ashtrax
Member
Basically came down to this in another forum. And I apologies for the pricing discrepancies as I'm in Australia.
So you're telling me right now, that you are willing to pay an additional cost of upwards to $100 for that feature (which Sony would have done to include the drive), to bring the console closer to $650 AUD and on top of that, let's say 2 movies a month for the next year.... picking the cheaper UHD Blu-Ray price of $35. That's around $70 per month.
Now ask that same question to the mass market where streaming is now a thing, and although not able to achieve 4K quality, comes in at $550 plus roughly $15 a month for a single subscription, $40 if you include all the main Australian services (Netflix, Presto and Stan).
So you're telling me right now, that you are willing to pay an additional cost of upwards to $100 for that feature (which Sony would have done to include the drive), to bring the console closer to $650 AUD and on top of that, let's say 2 movies a month for the next year.... picking the cheaper UHD Blu-Ray price of $35. That's around $70 per month.
Now ask that same question to the mass market where streaming is now a thing, and although not able to achieve 4K quality, comes in at $550 plus roughly $15 a month for a single subscription, $40 if you include all the main Australian services (Netflix, Presto and Stan).
foolishoptimist
Member
Never expected this to be honest.
Maybe i did because i thought of it as a gaming console. ¯\_(ツ_/¯
So, even after the XB1s was announced to support it at $299?
You didn't expect SONY, to support a format they're one of the biggest supporters/beneficiaries of?
Salty Rice
Member
You forgot Apple Watch 2.
Sony is not Microsoft. Also they have the numbers of 4k blu ray disc sales to know if they really need it or cut the price.
I'd argue the average consumer that is even remotely tech savvy will choose the PS4 Pro as opposed to the PS4 Slim and Xbox One S if the prices remain what they are. A machine that is nearly 2.5-3X more powerful for only a 100 dollars more with benefits across the board even at 1080p is going to be attractive to people even if they only buy Madden and COD.
PeterLegend
Member
is that a console? It can't even do 1080p son
While there's a lot of consumers left to sell to, those are undoubtedly a lot of the "I usually wait until consoles are much cheaper" crowd.
The "willing to spend $400 on a console" crowd has largely already put their foot in the ring. Like you said, 40 million already have a PS4.
So it is a bit of a weird situation IMO from a marketing standpoint; might be a lot of double dippers and not so many new consumers. And then you MIGHT turn off some of the "cheaper" consumers by having a better SKU out that isn't affordable to them.
You're argument is contradictory. You are talking about the "average" consumer and then bringing up specific power ratios and 1080p. Things that the average consumer don't understand or really care about.
Crayon
Member
You'd lose all your money because noone would be talking about it as it would no longer be a political football if they both had it.
Except it doesn't require a 4k TV at all...and all you need to tell the average gamer is "CoD will look and play better"
You realize it still plays bluray though right? Because THAT is still the same format that Sony created...I doubt Sony makes any more money on UHD disc sales...actually probably less because the combo packs generally include both discs...
As I've said eleventy times now...SONY DOESNT EVEN SELL A STAND ALONE UHD BLURAY PLAYER!...and they wont until at least 2017...
That is a CLEAR AS DAY indication of how much of a market they think there is for UHD Bluray right now...
The average consumer is smart enough to see the difference between an original PS4 and a PS4 Pro if you were to have a large UHD HDR Television and have side by side comparisons. That alone will speak far more than any technical jargon.
Got the Shakes
Member
I don't know. If the average consumer that walks into a Best Buy or Walmart and asks why is the Pro $100 more than the slim likely get told because it's the most powerful and provides the best graphics. Not sure the conversation ever actually goes into the nuance of needing a 4K tv with HDR to get the best picture. I suspect in that situation a lot of people would look at the extra $100 being worth it for the PS4 that gives them the best graphics.
I think there'll be plenty of people willing to fork over $399 for a machine if they have invested in a 4K television with HDR. This console's success really ultimately relies on the success of 4K HDR teleivsion sets.
shinjimimura
Member
...but PS4 didn't have a 100$ cheaper model with almost the same name and capable to play exactly the same games available to pick, did it? They're not discontinuing the base PS4, so PS4pro is, by definition itself, NOT targeting the average consumer.
foolishoptimist
Member
You're right. Sony is not MS. MS doesn't really benefit from supporting UHD at all, except by enticing people with a cheap player.
But Sony sells 4k TVs, they sell UHD discs, and they receive royalties from the format in general, so any success the format has, benefits them.
UHD disc sales are dependent on 4KTV sales, and 4K Player sales right? And Sony are missing an opportunity to increase the number of potential players out there. Plus, I don't think you could even buy players until this year, at least in any shops in AU.
The price point is targeting the mainstream GAMER. I guess it's how you also define mainstream consumer. The consumer I speak of is a typical gamer. The mainstream CONSUMER is the grandmother that walks into Walmart on Christmas to buy a gift for her son would be the target for PS4 Slim.
If you want further evidence- just look at PC gaming. The RX480 is priced at a "mainstream" price point of $199 and it selling gangbusters to a very "discerning" and "passionate" group of gamers that are willing to build their own PCs.
Adam Tyner
Member
Blu-ray launched in June 2006. Sony didn't have their first standalone player, the BDP-S1, on the market until December 2006 -- nearly six months after launch. Since Sony didn't bother to have a standalone player for sale at/near launch, does that mean they didn't have any confidence in Blu-ray as a format either? Remember, Ultra HD Blu-ray is only six months old now too.
Yes, their first Ultra HD Blu-ray player is lagging even further behind, but that doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does.
Definitely. I just think a lot of those people are already PS4 owners.
It's all a pretty unique scenario; dropping a console with tons more power and a competitive price 3 years into your very successful generation.
Excuse me but... what?
LostDonkey
Member
It's also benefits MS. They are on the board of directors of the Blu Ray Disc Association.
They benefit as much as Sony do and the other 20 odd members.
With that logic though, you would THINK, that Sony would be offering a stand alone UHD Bluray player...but they are not, and won't be in the near future...
So OBVIOUSLY...they do not feel that the market is currently ready to push these drives into people's homes..
If people are not buying these things at a high enough rate, it would do more harm than good to take on the R&D, and production costs associated with the hardware...
paperspace
Member
... that's marketing to average consumer.