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[Kenshin001]

Closure also did pitifully on PSN. Pretty sure Joe Danger 2 also but probably for other reasons.

Allowing self publishing is a worthy move by Sony but devs have to realise all the promotion falls on their shoulders. Sony doesn't help much. If a dev is going to release their game as an exclusive or timed exclusive going to PC then I think it's only fair Sony help out with the marketing.

 

[Carl]

Bought it and love it. shame it didnt do well

 

[test_account]

This game also had a small PS+ discount if i remember correctly. I wonder how that works regarding the developer getting payed.

 

[kurtrussell]

Here is the fundamental problem:

Why would I want to invest any more money into PS3 DD purchases when the next PS4 is 12 - 24 months away and incompatible with cell? Basically any money I've invested to this point is lost the moment the PS4 is released and my aging PS3 finally dies with no possible hope of recoup through resale.

Yet again, digital distribution inconveniences the customer more than physical distribution.

 

[Schlachtor]

Kotaku reports


Sad story really, given that he sings Sony's praises in terms of support. Seems like PSN is becoming a bit of a feast or famine and with fresh complaints about the new PSN store. I wonder how long will PSN be attractive to indies up against Steam and iOS?

Has nothing to do with PSN or SONY.

It's his own "fault", to be honest....

 

[Protome]

The game was decidedly mediocre, it had a really nice art style though. Maybe a better timed release would have sold better.

 

[Bedlam]

I wonder how he managed to spend 63k on the development of this game. This looks like an indie game someone would make in his spare time, tbh.

 

[Joni]

Kassatsu's weekly threads are like the only way to know whats out and where most of the time, take that concept and make it even more interactive.

Aside from of course the blog posts.... Sony already has a complete list of what is out per region each week.

I wonder how he managed to spend 63k on the development of this game. This looks like an indie game someone would make in his spare time, tbh.

Because he didn't make it in his spare time, but probably spent actual time on it instead of working. And dev kits naturally.

 

[test_account]

Here is the fundamental problem:

Why would I want to invest any more money into PS3 DD purchases when the next PS4 is 12 - 24 months away and incompatible with cell?.

To be able to play the games now

Basically any money I've invested to this point is lost the moment the PS4 is released and my aging PS3 finally dies with no possible hope of recoup through resale.

Yet again, digital distribution inconveniences the customer more than physical distribution.

I wouldnt say that it is all lost if you got your money worth to begin with. There are several of digital download games that i bought years ago that i most likely will never play again due to low interest. It is a loss if i'm not able to play the game again because i cant redownload it indeed, but it is not something that would bother me a lot in most cases.

That said, i agree with that phyiscal media is much better in this regards. I pretty much always buy the physical version if it excist. Mostly for collection purposes, but also that it is nice to know that i dont have to rely on losing the games digitally.

 

[kassatsu]

Aside from of course the blog posts.... Sony already has a complete list of what is out per region each week.

Planets Under Attack is out this week. What do you know about it?

 

[mclem]

I wonder how he managed to spend 63k on the development of this game. This looks like an indie game someone would make in his spare time, tbh.

Seems a reasonable figure for a year's wages + devkits (I gather he had sponsorship for the first year?)

 

[Joni]

Planets Under Attack is out this week. What do you know about it?

Only what I have seen of it on the official site, YouTube, and what I have read in reviews of the Steam version. And tomorrow I'll see if it is in the Store update.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Only what I have seen of it on the official site, YouTube, and what I have read in reviews of the Steam version. And tomorrow I'll see if it is in the Store update.

Congrats, you're the consumer that actively seeks out information on every single game and has the time to do so. The average consumer isnt too fond of web-digging themselves though, hence the existence of things like LMGTFY.

And honestly, the PS Blog isn't really part of my weekly internet rounds while NeoGAF is. If I switch on my console without visiting either though, I'm going to not know what the shit is going on other than maybe one or 2 big placards, the rest falling to the wayside.

 

[Joni]

And honestly, the PS Blog isn't really part of my weekly internet rounds while NeoGAF is. If I switch on my console without visiting either though, I'm going to not know what the shit is going on other than maybe one or 2 big placards, the rest falling to the wayside.

But that is different from claiming Sony doesn't offer the information. You want it expanded and on the PS3, okay. That I understand. But they already offer something rudimentary.

 

[Protome]

I wonder how he managed to spend 63k on the development of this game. This looks like an indie game someone would make in his spare time, tbh.

The art was made by creating papercraft models and then sending them off to some other company to get them scanned and made into 3D models for the game. That probably cost a bit.

 

[Aaron]

The art was made by creating papercraft models and then sending them off to some other company to get them scanned and made into 3D models for the game. That probably cost a bit.

And very silly when the result looks like normal 3D models with a nice filter applied.

This topic makes me wonder how the former XBLA exclusives like Mark of the Ninja have done on steam.

 

[Haunted]

And very silly when the result looks like normal 3D models with a nice filter applied.

This topic makes me wonder how the former XBLA exclusives like Mark of the Ninja have done on steam.

I really wish we had a better way of tracking digital sales across all platforms.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Who the fuck had the bright idea to release it next to AC3, Halo 4 and Blops 2?

They've only got themselves to blame.

 

[Withnail]

You guys wanting Sony to hold back games are completely nuts. Nobody moans at Gamestop for releasing too many retail games in November. Release dates are a publishing decision and that's the way it should stay.

Once Derrick the Deathfin cleared QA the dev would have been free to choose a release date. If he wanted to hold his game back to avoid the rush then he was perfectly able to do so. The fact is he probably needed to release it when he did because he needed to start selling the game to get some income. Why would you want to take that choice away and force a cash strapped indie to wait an arbitrary length of time before they can release a finished game? What if Sony had held it back two months, the dev had gone even further into debt, then they released it and it still failed? How is that better?

Unfortunately the failure of his game is not because he released it the same week as some other stuff, it's because there was zero marketing and the few reviews we've seen have not been very good. It's not nice to say but if he has got himself into financial difficulty then it's simply a failure of project management.

 

[Tizoc]

Who the fuck had the bright idea to release it next to AC3, Halo 4 and Blops 2?

They've only got themselves to blame.

...the game was released BEFORE BlOps 2 and Halo 4.
Yes it was released at the same time as AC3, but it was priced for under $10, I think 7-8 dollars.

 

[funkystudent]

Sorry it didn't work out for him but the game looked dumb and not in a good way.


Release timing did not help ether but i don't think it would have set the charts on fire if it was released earlier

 

[Carl]

Yes it was released at the same time as AC3, but it was priced for under $10, I think 7-8 dollars.

No it wasn't. It was released at the beginning of October. 10th to be exact.

 

[Impeccable]

You have to blame the game itself, sorry. Just because it is exclusive doesn't make the game more appealing. Especially after seeing the trailer.

It just looked bad... coming from someone with 60+ PSN titles on my PS3.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

How did the game cost $63,000 unless he was paying himself a salary?

Indie devs pretty much have to live in their parents' basement while they make their game or work double time (regular job + their game in spare time). I certainly wouldn't go tens of thousands of dollars into debt just to make a game, especially not my first major release.
At this point there are so many indie titles out there that unless you have considerable buzz, you need to earn some cred by gradually releasing great titles.

 

[bluemax]

hey failing indies: releasing everything on Steam.

There are enough stories out there that say that JUST releasing on Steam isn't the answer.

This guys biggest problem, as has been already mentioned, is the lack of publicity.

Go search on Gamasutra and you can find people who released on everything from iOS to Dasura who got zilch for sales because they did jack all for advertising. And then of course there are people who actually paid for some advertising and still got zilch.

Releasing a game as an Indie is kind of a crap shoot. There is no one stop Panacea to get yourself more sales.

I mean shit, from personal experience I can tell you that even having good word of mouth, excellent critical reviews AND backing from a major publisher aren't enough to assure yourself that your Indie game will become a major success.

 

[Melchiah]

In an email, Midwood told me he couldn’t share exact numbers, but development has cost “significantly more than has been made back so far”. Even after making a deal with Sony to help get the game on PlayStation 3.

“Sony have been very supportive throughout the process of completing and promoting the game,” Midwood said. “They loved the concept from the first time we pitched it to them and they have been to very easy to work with since then. The publishing and promoting is on our shoulders though, as we can’t afford to pay anybody professional, ha!

So, how exactly it would have been better on 360 or Wii? I don't get it how it's supposedly Sony's fault it didn't do well.

 

[spats]

The head developer guy was on the PSNation podcast a week or two ago. Seems like a very cool guy, shame their game hasn't been more successful. Hope they can recoup the cash on Steam or maybe mobile platforms.

 

[TriGen]

I watched the GB QL and it seemed okay, but if it cost him a lot of money he didn't have to make this I'm not surprised he didn't make it back. It's hard for single platform indie games, especially if that platform isn't Steam.

 

[LiquidSolid]

It's a bit counterintuitive to a common gamer to wish for less releases. But that's not what Kassatsu was asking for in that thread in the first place. Our money and attention is limited. If the store has scheduled weekly updates there's an expectation from the customer to have interesting content releasing every week, if not, the customer loses interest and stops visiting the store altogether. Spreading the releases will keep the user visiting the store just to keep up with the content. It's not rocket science and I'm sure people that make these decisions at Sony know this, but there must be something in the decision process that doesn't let them achieve this. Whatever that is, Sony should quickly fix it.

Are people still going on about this? No, it's still stupid. Microsoft's slot system fucking sucks and has screwed over a number of developers that just want their games out. It SHOULD be the developer or publishers decision when their games come out and if they happen to fuck that part up, that's their fault.

Why people are saying this when Steam is by far the most successful DD service and doesn't bottleneck releases, is beyond me.

Anyway, I would've bought this game but seeing as it never came out on the Aus/NZ PSN, I didn't exactly have a choice. Not to say I blame the developer for that, as SCEE should have recognised this problem YEARS ago and come up with a solution (preferably incorporating the ratings board costs into the cert fees), but it still pisses me off. Sucks that he's put himself in so much debt though.

 

[staticneuron]

i don’t care. i love Derrick. i’m deliriously happy that Ron & i managed to finish the game and make it so beautiful and fun too. i would do it again tomorrow.

just don’t tell my family i said that.

Seriously have to respect that. I hope this situation turns around for the guy.

 

[drizzle]

Greenlight it, Indie Bundle it (It doesn't need to be Humble Bundle. Royale or Gala are good enough) and you're set.

Here is the fundamental problem:

Why would I want to invest any more money into PS3 DD purchases when the next PS4 is 12 - 24 months away and incompatible with cell? Basically any money I've invested to this point is lost the moment the PS4 is released and my aging PS3 finally dies with no possible hope of recoup through resale.

Yet again, digital distribution inconveniences the customer more than physical distribution.

Because all those non-digitally distributed games will be compatible with the next Playstation? Who knew!

 

[szaromir]

honestly I think that if you already released on PSN that's probably enough exposure to make Valve pay attention, maybe even possibly skip greenlight. Many examples out there

Your beloved Valve dumped their traditional submission model. You can only submit on Greenlight.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

It probably needed 20k sales to break even I imagine?

Who knows they might put it on PS+ and save the developer a little bit more down the road.

 

[Shurs]

Isn't Sony's Pub Fund available to indie developers to avoid this sort of thing?

 

[Shiloa]

THE GAME DOESN'T HAVE A DEMO

That's the reason it did so badly. I was interested, but there is no way you can actually tell what the game is or how it plays. The store has one low quality trailer which makes it impossible to even tell it's got a unique visual style.

I want to support it. I would buy it if I enjoyed the demo. But no.

 

[Joni]

THE GAME DOESN'T HAVE A DEMO

That's the reason it did so badly. I was interested, but there is no way you can actually tell what the game is or how it plays. The store has one low quality trailer which makes it impossible to even tell it's got a unique visual style.

I want to support it. I would buy it if I enjoyed the demo. But no.

Tokyo Jungle was the best selling game of the month. Also no demo. It is promotion and marketing that is necessary.

 

[Shurs]

THE GAME DOESN'T HAVE A DEMO

That's the reason it did so badly. I was interested, but there is no way you can actually tell what the game is or how it plays. The store has one low quality trailer which makes it impossible to even tell it's got a unique visual style.

I want to support it. I would buy it if I enjoyed the demo. But no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSWNXoQ0snk

 

[Gentleman Jack]

honestly I think that if you already released on PSN that's probably enough exposure to make Valve pay attention, maybe even possibly skip greenlight. Many examples out there

Tell that to Farsight Studios.

 

[Shiloa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSWNXoQ0snk

You know what I mean.

 

[Kenshin001]

So, how exactly it would have been better on 360 or Wii? I don't get it how it's supposedly Sony's fault it didn't do well.

I think they could do a better job at promotion and marketing of indie titles that sign on though. Looking at the storefront now and it's just random stuff everywhere when they could have one section that highlights full games, one section for indie/DD games, one for movies etc.

Not sure if it's because of Sony or the gaming press but some PSN games get hardly any reviews. RCR, which seemed to get a lot of exposure, has 7 reviews on PS3, Derrick currently has 5 reviews.

 

[Shiloa]

Tokyo Jungle was the best selling game of the month. Also no demo. It is promotion and marketing that is necessary.

Tokyo jungle is a unique enough game that WoM can make popular quite simply - it just sounds so interesting.

 

[NemesisPrime]

You might want to look that up, as far as I remember the numbers for iOS and XBLA aren't as pretty as most make them out to be. (don't know much about Steam, nor does it interest me)

Check this for iOS

http://www.streamingcolour.com/blog/2011/09/28/results-ios-game-revenue-survey/
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/173068/congratulations_your_first_indie_.php

I am an Indie developer and there is no way I would touch PSN. Only XBLA, iOS and Steam are worthy platforms depending on what type of game you make. You can port to PSN but going exclusive is a death sentence. Yes there are plenty of failures on those platforms as well, but he already started out gimped IMHO.

And with the quality he has put into this game.... I can almost guarantee he would have made his money back if he had picked a different platform.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

THE GAME DOESN'T HAVE A DEMO

That's the reason it did so badly. I was interested, but there is no way you can actually tell what the game is or how it plays. The store has one low quality trailer which makes it impossible to even tell it's got a unique visual style.

I want to support it. I would buy it if I enjoyed the demo. But no.

Yup, no demo = no buy for me. The only game I broke this rule for was Journy and even then was weary about it.

Tokyo Jungle was the best selling game of the month. Also no demo. It is promotion and marketing that is necessary.

I skipped Tokyo Jungle because it didn't have a demo.

 

[Htown]

You might want to look that up, as far as I remember the numbers for iOS and XBLA aren't as pretty as most make them out to be. (don't know much about Steam, nor does it interest me)

Uh, Steam is pretty important. You shouldn't be proud of not knowing anything about that platform in a thread talking about indie game sales.

 

[SparkTR]

Who the fuck had the bright idea to release it next to AC3, Halo 4 and Blops 2?

They've only got themselves to blame.

It's not a death sentence, Natural Selection 2 released during the same timeframe and it put up respectable numbers (144k as of last week).

 

[Pranay]

It's not a death sentence, Natural Selection 2 released during the same timeframe and it put up respectable numbers (144k as of last week).

Well thats true i dont think retail changes a lot.

Problem with Derrick the deathfin is that released in the same week along with 8 more games

 

[Kenshin001]

I am an Indie developer and there is no way I would touch PSN. Only XBLA, iOS and Steam are worthy platforms depending on what type of game you make. You can port to PSN but going exclusive is a death sentence. Yes there are plenty of failures on those platforms as well, but he already started out gimped IMHO.

And with the quality he has put into this game.... I can almost guarantee he would have made his money back if he had picked a different platform.

Would be interested to hear about your sales figures.

Your post seems kind of contradictory though, you say there are plenty of failures on those platforms but he would have been guaranteed to have made his money back. How does that work?

 

[Carl]

THE GAME DOESN'T HAVE A DEMO

That's the reason it did so badly. I was interested, but there is no way you can actually tell what the game is or how it plays. The store has one low quality trailer which makes it impossible to even tell it's got a unique visual style.

I want to support it. I would buy it if I enjoyed the demo. But no.

Lots of games have no demos and sell ridiculously well

Journey had no demo at launch.

 

[Samus4145]

I honestly thought the game was a PS mini title. I don't even recall seeing it in the PAN store.

 

[kerrak]

Tokyo Jungle was the best selling game of the month. Also no demo. It is promotion and marketing that is necessary.

Marketing is important, but dont underestimate the correlation between a good game and good sales figures.
Tokyo Jungle is a very good game (not for everybody for sure), and Derrick probably isn't.