Slippery slope arguments suck because you can argue the reverse. Clearly the fact that employers can fire you for what you say at work has led to the slippery slope of them being able to fire you for what you say outside of work. Therefore in order to avoid that slippery slope from continuing, I argue we stop allowing employers to fire employees for what they say at work. My argument is even stronger because I don't have to depend on a "maybe" situation. Exactly what I declared will happen has happened.
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Racists Getting Fired
- Thread starter jon bones
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freeofgreed
Member
So being racist is equivilant to being in support of abortion, marching in a gay pride parade, or possessing positive views of atheism? The difference is, if you were fired for any of the later you would be able to sue the shit out of your employer and more then likely win, which is why no one in their right mind would fire you for any of those reasons. The same cannot be said for being a racist. Your slippery slope doesn't work.
The Incarnation
Member
The only thing worst than racists are people apathetic to that sort of behaviour, they're lower than scum in my eyes.
MLK sums it up best.
Over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negros great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another mans freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a more convenient season.
Yeah, I'll sit around and do nothing while racists get free reign to insult and dehumanise people.
MLK sums it up best.
Over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negros great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another mans freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a more convenient season.
Yeah, I'll sit around and do nothing while racists get free reign to insult and dehumanise people.
NilaDebila
Neo Member
Asking for a speech policing that influences your possibilities jobwise might not be a good idea for a world where discussion and conversation are (in my view) the resolution to ignorance. The result would be silent racism, where its effects would be a lot harder to discern and combat.
(Edited some stuff, gotta word my shit better/think my opinion through)
(Edited some stuff, gotta word my shit better/think my opinion through)
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
no problem here
……forgetit
Member
This isn't a thought policy, they said racist Shit, which is an action. Employers are perfectly allowed to fire you for something you say in your peesonal life and they already do.
Firing is not enough! To the gallows!
freeofgreed
Member
Who was punished by the law? Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequence. They're free to say whatever they want but they better be ready for the repercussions of their words.
Racist saying racist shit and paying the consequences. I don't see a problem with this. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence. It just means you have the right to say what you want without the government throwing you in prison or worse.
So what if some anonymous person is exposing racist. Good, stop posting racist shit out in public and keep it to yourself.
So what if some anonymous person is exposing racist. Good, stop posting racist shit out in public and keep it to yourself.
And it's pretty funny that the people who get fired because of this vote for the politicians who put those employment laws in place.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Let me get your thoughts on a hypothetical situation. Let's say you're the boss of someone who works at a daycare. On FB they have posted rather suggestive posts about how much they love little kids, posts that go into creepy territory and might even suggest pedophilia. They haven't done anything inappropriate with kids, don't have child porn or anything like that, but you, as their employer find out. Do you continue to have them working at your daycare?
Angelus Errare
Banned
I feel bad for racists, they should be a protected class. It's hard for them living in America where they're treated as second class citizens.
I'm surprised that not every company in America has social media training and explicit company policies.
I know when I started my new job in real estate last year, I got a big policy manual and about 4 hours of sit-down training.
Most of it is common sense stuff, but some people are so damn stupid they need to have it explicitly stated to them. Don't post this...don't post that...or you're fired.
I know when I started my new job in real estate last year, I got a big policy manual and about 4 hours of sit-down training.
Most of it is common sense stuff, but some people are so damn stupid they need to have it explicitly stated to them. Don't post this...don't post that...or you're fired.
Yep, these are not the kind of people you want to represent your business. Racism is a big issue and they made their opinions public.
How do you know they are white?
Yup. Which is why people arguing about "thought police!!!" gets a big rolls eyes from me.
No one is forcing these people to air out every shitty thought that crosses their mind. They are being horrible people of their own free will and letting the world know it.
EdibleKnife
Member
This is what get's me scratching my head about these arguments. These people are choosing to sit down and type out X,Y, Z into something that broadcasts it publicly. They aren't being forced or coerced into making their thoughts known, they are straight up just making their thoughts known of their own will. They either never thought anyone of the race that they reference or anyone sympathetic to the race they reference would see their public post or they thought about it and simply didn't care. They aren't sympathetic victims in my eyes either way.
NilaDebila
Neo Member
Sorry, English is not my native language so I might use the wrong words to express my sentiments. It might not me totally relevant for this discussion, but my argument boils down to that basing employment on expressing the right set of morals might not be a good idea for a free society. Solving repression by repression?
The pivots in this thread are baffling. I say racist bigots should continue to be cast away from society as the rest of the the world tries to move to bigger problems.
Freedom of speech =/= freedom from consequences of said speech
metalslimer
Member
If you meant oppression in your last sentence than LOL
I can't believe the people whining about "tattling" in here as if we're in fucking high school and someone was cheating on a test. If you are dumb enough to post anything to twitter or facebook under your real name you don't deserve an once of sympathy when your dumbass gets fired.
It's pretty hilarious. Even forgetting the fact that these people agreed and understood that this kind of action was not tolerated when they signed the employee agreement form.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
You'd be wrong on basically every point you made here. Employment laws in most states will not protect the type of scenarios I put forth: your political, religious, and sexual views are not protected in most states throughout the country. That's assuming they are foolish enough to list the true, controversial reasoning for firing you instead of listing any of the innocuous but prevalent employment violations that almost every employee in the country is guilty of. You could sue and you would lose: as someone who recently went through this in battling anti-LGBT bigotry at work, I'm painfully aware of the limits of employment laws in most states.
Ever found a picture of yourself at the bar that wasn't taken by you?
I'm beginning to wonder if some of you are even reading what you're quoting. I've made it quite clear that my positions and opinions in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with racism and everything to do with the precedent of allowing employers dominion over our personal lives under pain of termination.
Whether or not I can argue the merits of gay marriage, euthanasia, or religion should have no bearing on whether or not my employer could terminate me for having an opinion contrary to theirs.
You have to realize that you're talking about people who are against basic human rights. A company should have every right to set the standard of individual that they want to work for them. Why in the FUCK should they be expected to hold on to people who are openly posting racist rhetoric on social media? Some even with association of their employers posted as well.
"Ship the niggers back to Africa" is a far more dangerous ideology than a vague claim that "free society" is in danger from dealing with these individuals.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
This could all be prevented if people don't say these things.
……forgetit
Member
Having a poltical belief isn't the same as hating people for the color of their skin. Do you realize how bad having racists work for you can be for business. Literally half your consumer base are poc in the US and having some asshat at the front desk who looks down in someone for looking different can kill your business. Hands down if the employer knows you're racist they shouldn't hire you or keep you on.
metalslimer
Member
Right, I if I walk around town with a big sign that says "God hates fags" you better believe it would get back to my employer and they would fire the shit out of me.
I'm going to tell you the same thing that leftist economists tell Rod Dreher when he complains about the threat to religious liberty represented by same sex marriage: strengthen employment protection across the board. Or make employment less important to basic survival. Or both.
Trying to condemn the act of reporting someone's off-work conduct to their employer is helplessly futile. You can't inhibit this behavior with negative social pressure because the people reporting don't have to answer to you, because you don't even know who they are.
If they even read the employee agreement form...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I try not to be captured on film being really racist to other people, though.
spindashing
Banned
These people's Twitter posts are being posted on an open forum, not sneakily stolen from a private chat.
HuskerDutheDu
Member
Twitter is public. A lot of jobs require you to interact with other people. Being racist kinda forms your interactions with people. So it makes sense that not only would companies not want racists representing their company but it also impacts their ability to do their job.
I don't see how anybody can have a problem with this. Like the slippery slope argument holds zero water because the situations aren't really comparable. If something else pops up deal with it then. But it doesn't mean people shouldn't be held responsible for their actions now because something worse miiiight happen in the future.
I don't see how anybody can have a problem with this. Like the slippery slope argument holds zero water because the situations aren't really comparable. If something else pops up deal with it then. But it doesn't mean people shouldn't be held responsible for their actions now because something worse miiiight happen in the future.
I was fortunate enough to hear a conversation between a few lovely individuals over Thanksgiving dinner.
"It's sad these people can't get their acts together. I really thought we were past this."
"Have you noticed it's only them rioting, not us?"
"That's because we've moved past racism. They can't let it go."
I lean closer, and I know I shouldnt, but I have to ask.
"Who's they?"
"Niggers."
Uh, huh.
Times like that I wish I could hop in a plane and fly far away from everyone I know.
"It's sad these people can't get their acts together. I really thought we were past this."
"Have you noticed it's only them rioting, not us?"
"That's because we've moved past racism. They can't let it go."
I lean closer, and I know I shouldnt, but I have to ask.
"Who's they?"
"Niggers."
Uh, huh.
Times like that I wish I could hop in a plane and fly far away from everyone I know.
My response was in the fact that you placed, and still continue to place, hate speech on the same level as legit political opinions. It's a false equivalency. It's apples and oranges.
Yes literally everyone who said something stupid online is getting fired.
Everyone /oldman.
Not just some dumb fucks that chose to shout out their ignorance for the world to hear.
There are people in this thread that are confusing an Internal monologue with a spoken thoughts.
1. An internal monologue is a thought that you have consciously in your head to only yourself without broadcasting it to anyone else. NO ONE should face any repercussions for internal monologue.
2. A spoken thought is when you take your internal monologue and publicly and consciously make it known to an outside audience that does not reside in your mind.
If employers had a device that could extract an internal monologue without a employees consent and then fires said employee in relation to that internal monologue then THAT would be thought policing.
What is happening in reality is that there are idiots consciously consenting to publicly announce their racist views to a huge audience, knowing that their views are intolerable in todays society and are facing the consequences for stating said negative views in public.
There is absolutely NOT any thought policing whatsoever happening. Quite frankly, I find it really disgusting and even insulting that there are people that defend the bigots that are losing their jobs and that they should be criticized for their apathy as much as the racists' for their bigotry.
1. An internal monologue is a thought that you have consciously in your head to only yourself without broadcasting it to anyone else. NO ONE should face any repercussions for internal monologue.
2. A spoken thought is when you take your internal monologue and publicly and consciously make it known to an outside audience that does not reside in your mind.
If employers had a device that could extract an internal monologue without a employees consent and then fires said employee in relation to that internal monologue then THAT would be thought policing.
What is happening in reality is that there are idiots consciously consenting to publicly announce their racist views to a huge audience, knowing that their views are intolerable in todays society and are facing the consequences for stating said negative views in public.
There is absolutely NOT any thought policing whatsoever happening. Quite frankly, I find it really disgusting and even insulting that there are people that defend the bigots that are losing their jobs and that they should be criticized for their apathy as much as the racists' for their bigotry.
What if a terrorist is making you do it?
These racists aren't being punished by law, so your entire point is moot.
Ayup. It's that simple.
These people have made a statement in their own name with picture, name and enough additional information that people could make out their employer.
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