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RedBox Going to War With Xbox One (And Loading Ammo For PS4)

Uno Venova

Banned
Jan 24, 2011
21,974
0
0
Brooklyn, NY
Steam, Amazon, Gamersgate, and Greenmangaming make pc gaming so incredibly cheap it's not even funny..... Tomb Raider day one, 27 bucks....I can't speak outside of the US, but there seems to be new sales every second. I don't read people bitching about the fact you can't resale that digital content, all I'm saying.
Digital content yes, I don't see the problem.
 

CDX

Member
May 31, 2012
2,756
0
0
A blip that me and everyone I know uses on an extremely frequent basis. I think RedBox has more pull culturally then people give them credit for. $1 a night movies, $2 a night games? It's amazing.

If I had those deals growing up I would have been in heaven. Instead I got stuck with Holloywood video and Blockbuster both of which were overpriced, assholes about returns, and constantly tried to upsell on shit I didn't need.

I feel sorry for everyone that didn't have a Phar-Mor nearby to rent from


50 cent week long NES rentals were my life

Even into the 90s I think the 16-bit games were like $1 or something really cheap compared to Blockbuster.

69 cent movie rentals too.

RIP Phar-Mor
 

Bornstellar

Member
Jan 18, 2012
7,361
0
0
Daily deals.

These are still specials, not normal pricing. And while it's been a while since I've looked, hasn't Microsoft been doing weekly GoD sales?

Redbox's problem is entirely caused by a much larger company (namely, Microsoft), deliberately trying to push them out of the market for their own gain. That strikes me as a very significant distinction.

I call BS on that. I sincerely doubt the designers on the Xbone got together and said - "yeah, screw those guys!". Furthermore you are continuing to ignore the very real possibility that the PS4 will not support game rentals or used games. This is the result of an entire market shift.

Digital content yes, I don't see the problem.

The disk you buy. It is a vassal for digital content. The composition of the disk itself has no value whatsoever. It is ALL digital content.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?
 

harSon

Banned
Oct 20, 2007
43,523
0
0
awesomelybadcinema.wordpress.com
The point I'm trying to make is that there is a substantial difference between a problem of your own making and a problem caused by a large corporate conglomerate trying to bully you out of a market.

If Redbox was simply incompetent and couldn't figure out how to deliver game rentals to consumers in a financially responsible way, there would be much less sympathy for their plight. But that isn't what is going on. Their problems are not caused by a lack of consumer demand in rentals, nor is it caused by their inability to figure out how to be profitable delivering that product to consumers.

Redbox's problem is entirely caused by a much larger company (namely, Microsoft), deliberately trying to push them out of the market for their own gain. That strikes me as a very significant distinction.

And? My point is that "adapt and die" pertains to situations not having to do with shifts in consumer tastes, not whether some scenarios where companies are forced to adapt are different/more sympathetic than others.

It isn't hypocritical. Customers are willing to accept the removal of some features (e.g. the inability to resell) if new features are introduced to replace them (for example, lower prices and free online portals). People get upset when features are removed with no substantial benefits to replace them.

I can only go by the points that people are pushing. I know the real reason that many people are pissed, but those aren't the talking points that are being pushed a lot of the time. It's 100% a financial issue with a significant portion of the console's detractors, instead of the ethical/moral one that a lot of them seem to be pushing. Not everyone falls under this umbrella obviously, and there are a lot of people who care more about the morality of upholding consumer rights than financial effects alone, but those aren't the people I'm talking about.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
Steam, Amazon, Gamersgate, and Greenmangaming make pc gaming so incredibly cheap it's not even funny..... Tomb Raider day one, 27 bucks....I can't speak outside of the US, but there seems to be new sales every second. I don't read people bitching about the fact you can't resale that digital content, all I'm saying.

Again, I think people would be much more willing to accept a no-reselling future if they seemed to be getting something for it in return.

As it is, this isn't give and take, where companies give some features (e.g. lower prices, free online platforms, etc.) and take some (game reselling). It's take and take, not give and take.
 

Rising_Hei

Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,968
5
565
Spain
twitter.com
Sigh.... But I bought Mass Effect 3 disc for 7.99, once the key is entered into Origin, does that disc mean shit? No!!! Xbone, PS4 are following that path.

Why is everyone assuming PS4 will do the same? let's wait until we actually know for sure.

And, this isn't like PC or Steam, stop this nosense
 

NullPointer

Member
May 4, 2006
44,302
3
0
San Francisco
Getting worse? I see no uproar in the pc community. Xbone and PS4 are glorified fucking pcs!
I'm going to start breaking things.

PCs are PCs and are glorified by choice, options, power, flexibility, for customers, publishers and devs alike. The Xbone is a closed proprietary ecosystem littered with restrictions and only the faintest situational upsides.
 

urge26

Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,453
0
865
Cincinnati, OH
Again, I think people would be much more willing to accept a no-reselling future if they seemed to be getting something for it in return.

As it is, this isn't give and take, where companies give some features (e.g. lower prices, free online platforms, etc.) and take some (game reselling). It's take and take, not give and take.

Consumers decide whats successful in a free market.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
19,725
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Gamestop and these other businesses should consider not even selling XBOX hardware. Obv these guys are out of luck but a point in general....
 

eorl

Banned
Apr 23, 2013
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www.ausgamers.com
eorl Call of Duty is a difficult example, because Activision rarely discounts it (nor do they need to) but most well received AAA titles are 75% off within 9 months. There are better examples.
True there, CoD is a pretty bad example because it blatantly rips off people. The big problem in regards to Australian pricing on Steam is that even in these deals we still get ripped off which is just plain annoying.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
And? My point is that "adapt and die" pertains to situations not having to do with shifts in consumer tastes, not whether some scenarios where companies are forced to adapt are different/more sympathetic than others.

This is a fairly straightorward idea: we don't want companies to need to adapt to larger companies pushing them around. We want them to have adapt to their own inefficiencies and competencies. Inefficiencies like being incapable of making a profit on their product, and competencies like understanding consumer demand. Those are situations we want people to adapt to.

Redbox is efficient (they make money consistently) and competent (they are clearly producing a service that consumers want).

I can only go by the points that people are pushing. I know the real reason that many people are pissed, but those aren't the talking points that are being pushed a lot of the time. It's 100% a financial issue with a significant portion of the console's detractors, instead of the ethical/moral one that a lot of them seem to be pushing. Not everyone falls under this umbrella obviously, and there are a lot of people who care more about the morality of upholding consumer rights than financial effects alone, but those aren't the people I'm talking about.

It can still be an ethical issue (consumers want a give and take, not a take and take), but generally I agree.
 

Woggerman

Banned
May 7, 2012
146
0
0
Maybe they could distribute licenses that expire after a certain number of days. There could be a key for 1, 3, and 7 day rentals.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
Consumers decide whats successful in a free market.

This isn't a free market. If it were, surely Redbox would be free to provide consumers with a service they clearly want? Surely competitors could open their own separate stores on the Xbox One, similar to Greenmangaming and Good old Games competing against Steam?
 

smr00

Banned
Dec 19, 2011
7,166
0
0
This is a silly argument. Steam sales are special events. Most of the year, games have the same price on Steam that they have everywhere else. Any discounts are also at a publisher's discretion.
Except there are about 4-5 other big sites that almost always have daily/weekly deals on steam games for crazy prices on new and old games like GMG, Amazon, Gamefly, GG etc.

You can always find great and crazy prices on games new and old every single day. Even Steam itself has a daily deal and bigger deals on the weekend. Steam sales aren't just "special events" Yeah, they do even crazier sales during summer/winter but you can almost always get brand new released AAA titles for 40-50% off what 360/ps3 charge. I got Bioshock preordered for $35 before it released, Tomb Raider for $30, xcom for $30 etc. All $59.99 on xbox and you would be lucky to find a new copy of bioshock or tombraider for those prices on consoles right now.
 

EatinOlives

Member
Oct 23, 2011
16,849
0
0
Couldn't there actually be legal ramifications for this? I'm probably talking out of my ass here but companies like Redbox and Gamefly could cite the Xbox One's policies and Microsoft's collusion with GameStop as anti-competitive behavior, couldn't they?
 

Glorified G

Member
Jan 24, 2012
7,966
0
0
Getting worse? I see no uproar in the pc community. Xbone and PS4 are glorified fucking pcs!

You didn't see it because retail games were/are practically non existent in pc gaming. All you heard for years was how "pc gaming is dead" until dd became popular. Retail as it is on consoles is not even comparable to what was/is on pc.

Consumers decide whats successful in a free market.

Yup, and consumers have decided that retail gaming without any bullshit is really popular on consoles.
 

turtle553

Member
May 20, 2005
1,870
0
0
42
NJ
Will each disk have a serial number on the disk itself or will there be a key that needs to be entered? If it is the disk itself, then Redbox could probably make a deal for a serial number that allows for unlimited installs and only works with the disk inserted for rentals.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Jul 1, 2009
18,852
2,439
1,220
Greensboro, NC
Getting worse? I see no uproar in the pc community. Xbone and PS4 are glorified fucking pcs!

yes, PC's with all the negatives and none of the benefits.

The PC community embraced things like sales, free online, ability to mod, virtually infinite backwards compatibility, free dlc, platform competition, etc. Consoles are now shitted up with paid online services, even more restrictive DRM than the PC, and all the disadvantages that come with closed platforms like lack of competitive pricing and companies shutting down online servers for anything they want.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
I do want to point out that one of the common defenses people have when the PC platform is compared to XBL or PSN is to compare XBL exclusively to Steam, when of course Steam does not represent the entirety of PC Gaming (the biggest PC games of the last 10 years -- Dota 1, World of Warcraft and League of Legends -- are all completely unavailable on Steam, although DotA 2 may join them one day).

If Sony and Microsoft allow competitors to establish competing stores on their consoles and offer their own sales with great prices, I am again confident that the complaints about resale would be significantly muted.
 

fallagin

Member
Feb 26, 2009
6,704
0
0
Consumers decide whats successful in a free market.

No, not really. Consumers are bombarded with advertising, are given fewer choices through anti competitive behavior, Laws are passed by lobbyists that hurt consumer rights. Small companies are completely overshadowed by big corporations, games journalism is fed by ad revenue from major publishers.

So I'd really have to disagree with you on this one.
 

Klocker

Member
Apr 1, 2006
8,143
0
1,285
Arizona
I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.

so a not for profit business model? ;)


I agree that PS4 will not have 24 hr lock but used and game trading is going to be dodgy... have to wait and see.

as for rentals... I think they should just get the GF and RB to cut them in like the movie studios get a cut and call it a day, unless they are both planning a digital rental PS+ XB+ type rental subscription. yes please
 

Hex

Banned
Nov 14, 2009
20,121
1
0
Florida
twitter.com
Again, I think people would be much more willing to accept a no-reselling future if they seemed to be getting something for it in return.

As it is, this isn't give and take, where companies give some features (e.g. lower prices, free online platforms, etc.) and take some (game reselling). It's take and take, not give and take.

Correct, and it is not entirely no reselling just limited.
But I believe that it is all moot at this point, I do not see it in the near future but it IS what the missing piece of their formula.
 

Mass Effect

Member
Apr 24, 2011
11,120
4
0
I call BS on that. I sincerely doubt the designers on the Xbone got together and said - "yeah, screw those guys!". Furthermore you are continuing to ignore the very real possibility that the PS4 will not support game rentals or used games. This is the result of an entire market shift.

Oh please. You're kidding yourself if you don't think a major reason to enact these DRM policies was to also stop renting in addition to used games.

I guess we'll just have to see what Gamefly has to say about it.
 

Bornstellar

Member
Jan 18, 2012
7,361
0
0
Except there are about 4-5 other big sites that almost always have daily/weekly deals on steam games for crazy prices on new and old games like GMG, Amazon, Gamefly, GG etc.

You can always find great and crazy prices on games new and old every single day. Even Steam itself has a daily deal and bigger deals on the weekend. Steam sales aren't just "special events" Yeah, they do even crazier sales during summer/winter but you can almost always get brand new released AAA titles for 40-50% off what 360/ps3 charge. I got Bioshock preordered for $35 before it released, Tomb Raider for $30, xcom for $30 etc. All $59.99 on xbox and you would be lucky to find a new copy of bioshock or tombraider for those prices on consoles right now.

Best PC DD price on Black Ops 2 = $59.99

Available at Kmart for 360/PS3 for $39.99

It's a convenience thing. Which is why I'm curious to see if Microsoft will allow 3rd parties to sell keys alone.
 
Apr 7, 2011
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Best PC DD price on Black Ops 2 = $59.99

Available at Kmart for 360/PS3 for $39.99

It's a convenience thing. Which is why I'm curious to see if Microsoft will allow 3rd parties to sell keys alone.

I highly doubt that MS will allow 3rd parties to sell keys. They want full control of the market that they are trying to create for the Xbox One.
 

tatotiburon

Banned
Oct 15, 2010
97
0
650
Bogotá
Oh please. You're kidding yourself if you don't think a major reason to enact these DRM policies was to also stop renting in addition to used games.

I guess we'll just have to see what Gamefly has to say about it.

they are not going to STOP used games and rental, they (publishres) want to make a profit from used games and rental, that is what it's all about
 

Mushroomer25

Member
Jan 5, 2012
9,900
1
0
twitter.com
It's an interesting tactic. While it seems like the DRM war is simply corporation-vs-consumer, it's interesting to see when major players take the smaller side of the fight.
 

Raxus

Member
Sep 17, 2007
39,341
0
0
As free as Microsoft and Sony are to determine how the ecosystems they build are managed.
And if the mighty publishers enable the customer peons to trade their diamond encrusted games made out of pixie dust and dreams.
 

NullPointer

Member
May 4, 2006
44,302
3
0
San Francisco
they are not going to STOP used games and rental, they (publishres) want to make a profit from used games and rental, that is what it's all about
Or both. Restrict used and/or rentals during the release window, and take a cut of the proceeds afterwards.

Its always seemed short-sighted to look at publisher logic as either or when it almost always tends to be *both*.
 

Naythan

Member
Feb 14, 2012
325
0
0
ATL
Adrian Nurse June 8, 2013 at 7:35 pm

Personally neither my wife or I have ever gamed. I would be happy NOT to receive any information about gaming. Thank you.

My favorite reply on their website so far.

EDIT: This one is good too

Elyn June 8, 2013 at 7:35 pm

It sounds fun. From game cassette to online stream, video game has become more easier. But hope we still can play the old super Mario game in this new stream.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
Look, I'm not defending it. I don't really buy used because I've found you can buy new if you wait/shop around. I don't like the fact that selling would be difficult, but truth be told I don't have to purchase these systems.

I agree, but I think you're understating how established these platforms are and how un-free these supposedly free markets are.

As an example, do you remember when, about two years ago now, Microsoft raised prices on XBL even as competition in the online gaming space grew more fierce, and services like PSN and Steam were catching up to or even exceeding XBL in provided services?

How could Microsoft do this? Even more importantly, how could they get away with it? The answer is that this free market isn't as free as we'd all like to believe. Microsoft is aware that many customers are stuck on their platform in a way that will be difficult to pull out from. If I wanted to switch from Xbox 360 to (for example) PC, that transition is not especially easy. If I want to keep playing the games I own, I will need to rebuy all of them over again. If I want to keep playing with the friends I've made, I'll need to convince all of them to move with me en masse over to the PC so we can stay together. I may even need to buy a whole new PC if my current one does not play the games I want.

Many of these same basic concepts still apply today. While this is an easier time to switch platforms than it is mid-generation, it is still true that most of my friends would likely be on XBL. It's true that my gamerscore (or trophy list) will be reduced to zero. This isn't a completely free market where consumers can readily and easily switch between producers at little or no cost to themselves.
 
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As a Steam user for years, I don't have a problem with anything MS is doing except for that check-in requirement every 24 hours. If Sony does all the same stuff but doesn't require me to check-in daily, I'll give them my money. I was probably going full digital anyway.

Adapt? That's what Microsoft should be doing

It's not a businesses job to adapt. It's to forge ahead. Wisely, one would hope.
 
Apr 7, 2011
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And if the mighty publishers enable the customer peons to trade their diamond encrusted games made out of pixie dust and dreams.

Diamond encrusted games made of pixie dust and dreams... That shits expensive publishers gotta make back a profit somehow.