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RedBox Going to War With Xbox One (And Loading Ammo For PS4)

Jun 26, 2008
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Renting games is what concerns me the most. I am a regular user of Redbox...I have marathon gaming sessions when my wife is out of town and I can get a game and finish it in a day or two. I will really miss this option if it is taken away...

I do the same thing when I go to my parent's house. Trust me, publishers aren't going to miss us. Though I do buy my fair share of games for $20 and under. A $60 games once in a while too.
 

Proven

Member
Jan 19, 2007
7,241
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I agree, but I think you're understating how established these platforms are and how un-free these supposedly free markets are.

As an example, do you remember when, about two years ago now, Microsoft raised prices on XBL even as competition in the online gaming space grew more fierce, and services like PSN and Steam were catching up to or even exceeding XBL in provided services?

How could Microsoft do this? Even more importantly, how could they get away with it? The answer is that this free market isn't as free as we'd all like to believe. Microsoft is aware that many customers are stuck on their platform in a way that will be difficult to pull out from. If I wanted to switch from Xbox 360 to (for example) PC, that transition is not especially easy. If I want to keep playing the games I own, I will need to rebuy all of them over again. If I want to keep playing with the friends I've made, I'll need to convince all of them to move with me en masse over to the PC so we can stay together. I may even need to buy a whole new PC if my current one does not play the games I want.

Many of these same basic concepts still apply today. While this is an easier time to switch platforms than it is mid-generation, it is still true that most of my friends would likely be on XBL. It's true that my gamerscore (or trophy list) will be reduced to zero. This isn't a completely free market where consumers can readily and easily switch between producers at little or no cost to themselves.

To be fair, it was exactly when they were raising the price that I just quit Xbox Live. Every 360 game I bought from then on was $30 or less and single player.
 

3rdamention

Member
Oct 27, 2006
7,996
2
1,005
Maybe you can go to a Redbox machine, sign up, and they will add you to their Family....$2 a night and you remain a family member and can play all their games that others aren't currently playing.......when you stop paying, you are kicked out of their family..



There you go Redbox, you are welcome..
 

scitek

Member
Aug 23, 2005
17,119
13
1,400
El Paso, TX
twitch.tv
A blip that me and everyone I know uses on an extremely frequent basis. I think RedBox has more pull culturally then people give them credit for. $1 a night movies, $2 a night games? It's amazing.

If I had those deals growing up I would have been in heaven. Instead I got stuck with Holloywood video and Blockbuster both of which were overpriced, assholes about returns, and constantly tried to upsell on shit I didn't need.


edit:
I go to peoples houses I see those redbox discs holders on people tables and next to their TVs. When I was in college you would see those cases everywhere. I don't know, I think until streaming becomes as affordable --amazon instant will charge me 3 to 5 dollars for the same movie -- RedBoX is here to stay. They are everywhere. Gas Stations, convenient stores, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, ect..

Yeah, I'm currently in school and my roommates use Redbox all the time. It's great. They're also sending out emails, BTW. I got one earlier tonight. I think an email from Redbox pertaining to this issue could do wonders for reaching the general audience that has never been on a gaming forum in their life.
 

J_Lee

Banned
May 26, 2013
596
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From what comments I looked through on the Red Box site I am surprised it seems the public is more pissed about renting and borrowing games then we are. Who would of thought that?
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
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0
Saint Louis / New York City
From what comments I looked through on the Red Box site I am surprised it seems the public is more pissed about renting and borrowing games then we are. Who would of thought that?

I certainly see your position, but I am not that surprised. Extremely dedicated consumers have highly inelastic demand curves. That is, we will pay virtually any price to get what we want.

Sort of like a highly dedicated movie buff who has an extensive Blu Ray collection would grumble considerably if Blu Ray prices increased 40% across the board, while the typical consumer would grumble even louder, and might stop buying Blu Rays altogether. The casual consumer is much less invested, and are more capable of cursing the market and walking away if they don't like what's going on.
 

Arksy

Member
Aug 5, 2011
7,171
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This is a mere side point...

But I wonder if there are any antitrust implications for Microsoft's move. I don't practice law in a US jurisdiction and I'm not intimate with the full extent of the Sherman Antitrust Act 1890 in which there is judgment against Microsoft for bundling their browser.

I took a quick look and it seems prima facie that there is at least a question to explore here.

RedBox and all those Mum & Pop game stores should really be contacting their lawyers right about now. They probably are, and if they're not they're probably just waiting until the end of E3.

I know for a fact that this sort of practice would technically be fine in Australia from an antitrust point of view. (We've got really weak measures that allow companies to hold much bigger market shares in Australia)...Although I strongly suspect that they fall foul of several sections of consumer law.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
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From what comments I looked through on the Red Box site I am surprised it seems the public is more pissed about renting and borrowing games then we are. Who would of thought that?

Basically what a few of us have been saying all along. The ones who borrow/rent/trade/sell/buy used are the more casual gamers and kids before they get their first real job. Almost all of us have been there at one point or another and maybe still are. The people who trade into gamestop most of the time are not the core gamers but the more casual gamers. They trade in a few games to help pay for the new COD or Madden. The mother who buys some used games for the kids. The college student who uses gamefly ect. This industry was built on the practices that MS wants to stop or control. Those casuals won't just smile and take the restrictions. They will find either other ways to game like tablet/PC or find a new hobby. All this will do is shrink the console market by a lot and will lead to a crash if Sony follows suit. The publishers and MS are being short sited this is not 1990 when there was more limited choices in entertainment and gaming. Cheaper alternatives are all around and what do they do. They basically raise the price of gaming by a huge margin.
 

Arksy

Member
Aug 5, 2011
7,171
12
605
Basically what a few of us have been saying all along. The ones who borrow/rent/trade/sell/buy used are the more casual gamers and kids before they get their first real job. Almost all of us have been there at one point or another and maybe still are. The people who trade into gamestop most of the time are not the core gamers but the more casual gamers. They trade in a few games to help pay for the new COD or Madden. The mother who buys some used games for the kids. The college student who uses gamefly ect. This industry was built on the practices that MS wants to stop or control. Those casuals won't just smile and take the restrictions. They will find either other ways to game like tablet/PC or find a new hobby. All this will do is shrink the console market by a lot and will lead to a crash if Sony follows suit. The publishers and MS are being short sited this is not 1990 when there was more limited choices in entertainment and gaming. Cheaper alternatives are all around and what do they do. They basically raise the price of gaming by a huge margin.

it will be a contained crash limited to AAA games space.

I hope there will be a huge grassroots campaign if Sony follows suit. This sort of information needs to reach the mass market and I'm worried that it won't.
 

Valnen

Member
Aug 4, 2009
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Citrus Heights
Greenbox vs Redbox. Fight!

I get the feeling Redbox isn't gonna get it's way. Either that or they'll heavily push Playstation games if Sony makes an announcement that they aren't following in Microsoft's footsteps.
 

wumster3000

Member
Mar 28, 2010
2,169
0
750
California
Good. I'm glad someone in their position is fighting back against this garbage.

You do realize that it's not about the gamers, but about them keeping money in their pockets. Please, don't think that corporations give a damn about what people think about them. It's about the bottom line. Redbox is about Redbox. Just like Microsoft is about Microsoft and Sony for Sony.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
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You do realize that it's not about the gamers, but about them keeping money in their pockets. Please, don't think that corporations give a damn about what people think about them. It's about the bottom line. Redbox is about Redbox. Just like Microsoft is about Microsoft and Sony for Sony.

I don't care why they are doing it. I just care they are spreading the word to people about what MS and its cronies want to do. I have nothing against redbox they provide a solid service for a fair price. I think I will even rent a movie this week from them as a way to show support. I love this hobby and don't want to see it destroyed by short sited companies who can't adjust to the new market.
 

The Lamp

Member
Nov 6, 2010
17,176
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Adapt or die.

I suppose this is one way of adapting.

EDIT: Also, title should reflect that the PS4 is mentioned as well.

This is like telling a goldfish to adapt to the desert.

Microsoft isn't giving any room for adaptation. The rental market will simply be destroyed at this point.
 

IrishNinja

Member
May 12, 2009
40,052
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Vice City
i value Redbox & Gamefly both, so here's to them

Adapt or die.

MS is the one tryin to change shit to their terms and call it "future", i hope the backlash forces them to adapt, not consumers

Only a temporary stub as we await final confirmation PS4 won't be like XBO at E3.

i wish i had your optimism here, starting to think after EA walking back online passes/etc that the best i can hope for is sony leaves it up to the pubs/devs
 

CDX

Member
May 31, 2012
2,756
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From what comments I looked through on the Red Box site I am surprised it seems the public is more pissed about renting and borrowing games then we are. Who would of thought that?

Looking through the comments I see a lot of mothers with children unhappy about this.

It's kind of nice seeing mothers get informed about this issue.

They are probably a demographic that's unlikely to be reading the negative online news articles about it, or reading the message boards.

But to see them, mothers who don't follow this stuff, equally as pissed off as core gamers. Seeing that, it really makes me hopeful Microsoft won't be successful with implementing this DRM crap. Mothers will have a strong say what does and doesn't get bought for their children this holiday season.

Props to Redbox for doing this, even if it's only for their own businesses self interest.
 

LupinTheThird

Banned
May 24, 2013
23
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Good for Redbox. It won't make any difference though as the Xbone has 2 core philosophies:

1) Steal from the Consumer.
2) Upload audio/video of the consumer illegally, violating their privacy.

Hopefully Sony will listen however.
 

Brad Grenz

Member
Sep 28, 2009
4,200
1
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Salem, OR
www.gamerblahhhg.com
RedBox always struck me as a short term enterprise in their current form. The kiosk format could obviously replace 99% of a brick and mortar rental shop's business at 1% of the cost, but it was never a forever thing. They're working on their own streaming service because they know physical discs are a dead end. I think they thought expanding into games would forestall that inevitability, but there's no easy way to prolog the practice once console enforce DRM the way Xbox One has.

They can try and cut deals directly the way GameStop obviously has with the platform holders and publishers, but if those parties want rentals to exist they would probably prefer to offer digital only versions directly. It also doesn't make a lot of sense for RedBox to try and build or acquire their own PC digital distribution service. I think ultimately their interest in the gaming market has an expiration date.
 

LupinTheThird

Banned
May 24, 2013
23
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Still surprised gamefly hasn't said anything yet. I have never used Redbox for games, but I'm sure this direction has them sweating bullets.

Agreed. Maybe they are keeping heads down to play nice in hopes MS will cut them in somehow but it just won't happen. Will it really hurt them though? Especially with the BBC, Time, Wall Street Journal, Forbes and other such news media taking MS's anti-consumer stance to the masses it will impact most, unlike NEOGAF and such that cater to the hardcore crowd. The customers most dependent upon redbox and Gamefly are learning this week that MS doesn't want them as customers, has been spying on them since 2007, and basically doesn't think they're even worth being treated like a human being. This console might make N-Gage sales look amazing; Gamefly and Redbox might not have a problem as long as Sony doesn't stupidly follow suit.
 

urge26

Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,453
0
865
Cincinnati, OH
Agreed. Maybe they are keeping heads down to play nice in hopes MS will cut them in somehow but it just won't happen. Will it really hurt them though? Especially with the BBC, Time, Wall Street Journal, Forbes and other such news media taking MS's anti-consumer stance to the masses it will impact most, unlike NEOGAF and such that cater to the hardcore crowd. The customers most dependent upon redbox and Gamefly are learning this week that MS doesn't want them as customers, has been spying on them since 2007, and basically doesn't think they're even worth being treated like a human being. This console might make N-Gage sales look amazing; Gamefly and Redbox might not have a problem as long as Sony doesn't stupidly follow suit.

Is this really just MS we're talking about? Or all the publishers in this industry? Anyone thinking Sony won't take the same step I believe is just sticking their head in the sand. EA getting rid of their online pass I think shows clearly what's happening with the next gen. I'd truly be stunned if they did something different then MS. For some reason I believe that MS just chose to get the bad press out of the way while Sony is trying to garner some favor back in their court until it's time for the truth to be told (god knows they've handled things horribly in the past with consumers and I think they're smart with being mum on the complete subject). I'd love to eat crow on that.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,891
2
0
Windsor, UK
This isn't a free market. If it were, surely Redbox would be free to provide consumers with a service they clearly want? Surely competitors could open their own separate stores on the Xbox One, similar to Greenmangaming and Good old Games competing against Steam?

We don't know that they won't yet. It is possible that MS or Sony will allow third par stores to sell digital codes, just like GMG, amazon do with steam codes. Any already does that with amazon the US and GAME do it in the UK. Broadening that would be a logical thing to do.
 

Red-Shift

Neo Member
Aug 15, 2012
137
0
0
Can't you rent digital PC games on Gamefly? I'd imagine they might have a similar deal with MS and Sony. Maybe the fact they are a privately held company gives them some wiggle room refocusing their business, since they don't have any shareholders breathing down their neck.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
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Still surprised gamefly hasn't said anything yet. I have never used Redbox for games, but I'm sure this direction has them sweating bullets.

I fully expect to hear from gamefly soon if Cboat is right like usual and rentals will never happen. Maybe gamefly was still hoping to get a deal and will find out no deal can be made. Or they want to partner with either Nintendo or Sony and are working on a deal.

The comments on the site are priceless in site into what regular people think of all of this. There is a lot of pissed off people who hate all of this.
 

Liamario

Member
Feb 5, 2012
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577
1,070
Ireland
I think it also extremely short sighted of gamestop, if they think they aren't being pushed out of the market. What do they think is going to happen next gen (assuming there is a next gen).