Son of Sam
Banned
I'm confused on why everyone here is so confused.
Chances are the game is gutted so bad because DLC
Chances are the game is gutted so bad because DLC
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Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
megamerican
Member
I don't even know why Bungie is trying to debunk this. It's like arguing that they totally made the story shitty on purpose.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Pretty much the only way to really salvage to story at this point is a massive retcon or reboot. They could go back and redo everything from the base game (it's happened before in some MMOs), or they could release Destiny 2, Electric Boogaloo, and have time travel or whatever result in a whole new story. Neither solution is particularly elegant, but I'm inclined to favor the former as it's less cliché-ridden.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I think the DLC being the gutted parts of the game is a resault/side effect OF the shit that went down, not the cause of it.
But how though? Is the DLC gonna give the game plot? Are you saying then the Plot couldn't be released with the game? Because to me that what would be implied by Bungie if that's the case. And why? Because it wasn't done? Because they didn't finish the cutscenes? Was it because they got greedy and decided to extort money out of customers if they wanted a Story?
In all honesty this game is really destroying all the credibility and good will Bungie came into this with. I'm not sure if a lot of people are going to be able to trust Bungie after this.
AusRoachman
Member
Yup , not a great way to start your 10 year franchise. I would have preferred a single complete story and then multiple dlc that showed other sides of the conflict if that's how they wanted to do it.
-Stick with the rasputin story for base game.
-Introduce the exo chick and her storyline in an upcoming dlc
-Introduce the black garden and the reef in another dlc.
Would have been better then the crap we have now. Essentially the reef was just a singular cutscene anyway.
It was the best cutscene though.
Garrett 2U
Member
Something else had to have happened.
The original plan wasn't DLC after a couple months.
It was a game packed with content, and then a huge expansion the following year.
This thread is just making me yearn for what could have been now.
AusRoachman
Member
The best cutscene unless you were an awoken . LOL
Poodlestrike
Banned
Honestly, I don't mind using the first game to set up plot threads for subsequent DLC or expansions, but you also have to have a worthwhile story in that first game. Most TV shows do it, one of my all-time favorite book series set up plot threads in the third book that haven't really been resolved or even touched on 12 books later, and even in gaming you see more conventional MMOs and RPGs pull it off.
Destiny's problem was not one of fundamental structure IMO, but of execution.
Call me cynical, but I believe there are far too many coincidences in this story to entirely discredit it. While the way the facts are presented are plausibly false, the facts themselves stand by themselves far too easily.
Little things like, as has been mentioned many times over now, big budget voice actors for what amounts to cameos, references to characters/locations/events that are non-existent in retail release, the disjointed story bordering on almost not there, and what I think is most of all important, an entirely different experience than one that was experienced at E3 2013.
The loss of the lead story writer round around this time ties everything in nicely. He leaves after being unhappy with the way the story is headed after pressure to cut to meet deadlines, higher ups have their way and begun cutting left right and centre to reduce work needed, before packaging everything left behind into a nice little package for the DLC. The amount of content we are getting over the two announced so far is, at least in my opinion, quite a substantial amount for what really is only a few months behind retail release.
This may sadly become another case of pressure form higher up to hit deadlines. It seems Bungie's overall goal was perhaps a little bit too lofty, and in aiming for the stars they have in fact hit Earth rather quickly. It was always going to be a long term investment, and perhaps Activision needed to fully believe in this to help Bungie release the game they wanted to release. The best move they can do now is reboot the story, ala FFXIV, and offer a free 2.0 version to all buyers as an apology and thank you. They need to look long term, and try not to patch the holes so much we eventually end up with a game that is nothing remotely like what they wanted to release.
Anyway, /rant over. Apologies, didn't have very many friends who felt the same about this
Little things like, as has been mentioned many times over now, big budget voice actors for what amounts to cameos, references to characters/locations/events that are non-existent in retail release, the disjointed story bordering on almost not there, and what I think is most of all important, an entirely different experience than one that was experienced at E3 2013.
The loss of the lead story writer round around this time ties everything in nicely. He leaves after being unhappy with the way the story is headed after pressure to cut to meet deadlines, higher ups have their way and begun cutting left right and centre to reduce work needed, before packaging everything left behind into a nice little package for the DLC. The amount of content we are getting over the two announced so far is, at least in my opinion, quite a substantial amount for what really is only a few months behind retail release.
This may sadly become another case of pressure form higher up to hit deadlines. It seems Bungie's overall goal was perhaps a little bit too lofty, and in aiming for the stars they have in fact hit Earth rather quickly. It was always going to be a long term investment, and perhaps Activision needed to fully believe in this to help Bungie release the game they wanted to release. The best move they can do now is reboot the story, ala FFXIV, and offer a free 2.0 version to all buyers as an apology and thank you. They need to look long term, and try not to patch the holes so much we eventually end up with a game that is nothing remotely like what they wanted to release.
Anyway, /rant over. Apologies, didn't have very many friends who felt the same about this
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah. They'd have to pretty much burn down most of the mission and story content they have. I doubt most of the issues will really be addressed outside of the DLC and sequels.
Agreed. Wonder how'd that will affect character transfers though.
Yep, best thing is to not comment in regards to this kind of thing.
Has anything like that ever happened before? Putting out a crappy first game and then have the sequel be a reboot. It would be interesting to say the least.
Son of Sam
Banned
What credibility? Bungie hasn't made a decent PVP experience since Halo 2. And only two of the campaigns out of 5 were any good.
Frankly, i think they overachieved with the gameplay of this PVP. The story blows more than anything i could have imagined so i'll give you that and that's probably because they were more focused on delivering on constant raid/mission updates and DLC expansions.
They ran out of time for the story. It hit the chopping block in the end.
Lucent
Member
Call me cynical, but I believe there are far too many coincidences in this story to entirely discredit it. While the way the facts are presented are plausibly false, the facts themselves stand by themselves far too easily.
Little things like, as has been mentioned many times over now, big budget voice actors for what amounts to cameos, references to characters/locations/events that are non-existent in retail release, the disjointed story bordering on almost not there, and what I think is most of all important, an entirely different experience than one that was experienced at E3 2013.
The loss of the lead story writer round around this time ties everything in nicely. He leaves after being unhappy with the way the story is headed after pressure to cut to meet deadlines, higher ups have their way and begun cutting left right and centre to reduce work needed, before packaging everything left behind into a nice little package for the DLC. The amount of content we are getting over the two announced so far is, at least in my opinion, quite a substantial amount for what really is only a few months behind retail release.
This may sadly become another case of pressure form higher up to hit deadlines. It seems Bungie's overall goal was perhaps a little bit too lofty, and in aiming for the stars they have in fact hit Earth rather quickly. It was always going to be a long term investment, and perhaps Activision needed to fully believe in this to help Bungie release the game they wanted to release. The best move they can do now is reboot the story, ala FFXIV, and offer a free 2.0 version to all buyers as an apology and thank you. They need to look long term, and try not to patch the holes so much we eventually end up with a game that is nothing remotely like what they wanted to release.
Anyway, /rant over. Apologies, didn't have very many friends who felt the same about this
Exactly this.
I really hope we get to the bottom of this. 404 guy sounds legit to me but theres no proof. Seeing as though the game is all ate up story wise, 404 may be spot on. Really feel like we got played. Reviews coming out so late, seems like they were up to some shady shit and didnt wanna hurt sales for the most hyped up game this year. All just seems so shady, how can they get away with making such a shitty story and hauling in piles of cash for it. Hype is a terrible thing.
AusRoachman
Member
Probably hard to do if they plan on letting you keep your characters/gear e.t.c (which i assume they wouldnt reboot).
Maybe the vex teleport you back to before the ghost awoke you and we start all over again with a decent script and an amazing solar system and then the ghost says you were dreaming all along.
At this point though how many people from Destiny 1 are gonna buy the sequel? Especially if they leave the first one the way it is.
The next game might as well be a reboot cause the only thing we really did in this game was reawaken the Traveler. That's it.
I will be waiting to see for the next game for sure.
People buy call of duty yearly.
Lucent
Member
Yeah basically. I feel like the people who buy FPS games all the time won't care as much, but I do.
The PVP isn't the only aspect of the game. Regardless of it's quality at least Halo 3, ODST and Reach had stories that you could have an opinion on. At least there was something there.
AusRoachman
Member
Destiny 2 : Wake Up Guardian it was a dream
Didn't we just stop the thing keeping it from awakening? Like its still trying to heal to the point where it can wake up?
Literally nothing happened then haha.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Realm Reborn was pretty much this situation.
Seriously, there isn't anything to reboot story wise. Nothing fucking happened.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I'm withholding judgment until I see how the DLC and updates pan out. If they demonstrate notable improvement and show that yes, they do still remember how to write, and yes, they do know how to properly integrate the MMO elements they saddled themselves with, then I'll pick it up after reviews. Otherwise...
They need to drop that aspect, and focus more on being a shooter, back to basics for Bungie.
marianitten
Banned
The IGN FINAL FANTASY XIV: A REALM REBORN REVIEW have this beatiful words in it:
There is no shame in doing that.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think people are forgetting how drastic Halo 2 changed from the first OXM article to the final game, so it's not like this a new thing for Bungie. The main difference is even in it's reduced form, Halo 2 turned out pretty great, while Destiny landed on the more "just ok" side of things.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Eh... not really. FFXIV in it's original incarnation was arguably even more flawed than Destiny, and as a part of a long-standing flagship franchise, was in a much better position to get the time and attention it required. Destiny's in a much more precarious situation.
Thats for multiplayer though. I don't really hear or see many people enjoying Destiny's PvP
Poodlestrike
Banned
Final fantasy 14 was a completely different situation though. They had no 10 year plan other than trying to get people to subscribe for as long as possible. Bungie and activision have a set plan to keep making sequels and dlc. FF14 had to make the best out of what they had so it wasn't a complete financial diaster. Plus Destiny has already sold better than many games so after being out for a year. So it's not like they are hurting from no profits.
I'm with you here. Tell you for sure I'm not gonna preorder Destiny 2 if the the opportunity comes. Not making that mistake again.
Sure the story is...whatever? Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are.
I've been thinking about this whole thing: what was Borderlands about? How about any COD? Spec Ops the Line had an awesome story that I do remember but the others I have no clue. I know we all want this story to be better but its just not. I played a few months of Final Fantasy 14 and barely remember the story but I dam well remember partying up and adventuring. Lets put it this way. If I had to choose between lack of story or six months of broken game, ahem BF, I choose crappy story.
I've been thinking about this whole thing: what was Borderlands about? How about any COD? Spec Ops the Line had an awesome story that I do remember but the others I have no clue. I know we all want this story to be better but its just not. I played a few months of Final Fantasy 14 and barely remember the story but I dam well remember partying up and adventuring. Lets put it this way. If I had to choose between lack of story or six months of broken game, ahem BF, I choose crappy story.
Played the multiplayer for over an hour today since the game released. Out of all multiplayer team deathmatch games, Destiny's is the worst to me. The only satisfaction I had was hoping I got some good loot. Saw a guy get 22 kills and 8 deaths and he didnt recieve any loot lol.
Destiny's story problem is that it's almost completely non-existent. Nothing you do in the world really matters cause they never give you a reason to care even in the moment. You don't say "the story is up there with Star Wars" and deliver absolutely nothing.
Well Crucible loot is random so kills don't really matter. I actually really like Destiny's pvp, favorite part of the game for me.
If you look at the original leaked contract here:
http://documents.latimes.com/bungie-activision-contract/
Destiny was supposed to come out in 2013, so it looks like it was already delayed one year.
Section 11.4 shows every quarter the game is delayed Bungie's royalty gets reduced by 10% (2% of 20% etc.). So does that mean a 4 quarter delay (1 year) = Bungie's royalty got cut by 40%? No wonder they shipped the product then in the current state. Am I reading the legalese right?
There is also a bunch of legalese about 33% of "key members" leaving, which would be "Critical Risk", and could lead to a potential "material breach". Was Joseph Stanton a key member?
It sure sounds like the way the contract was worded, Bungie development was way behind and they just had to ship because it risked losing more and more of their Destiny royalties if they did not. Am I right or wrong in this interpretation? Please some lawyer read this.
http://documents.latimes.com/bungie-activision-contract/
Destiny was supposed to come out in 2013, so it looks like it was already delayed one year.
Section 11.4 shows every quarter the game is delayed Bungie's royalty gets reduced by 10% (2% of 20% etc.). So does that mean a 4 quarter delay (1 year) = Bungie's royalty got cut by 40%? No wonder they shipped the product then in the current state. Am I reading the legalese right?
There is also a bunch of legalese about 33% of "key members" leaving, which would be "Critical Risk", and could lead to a potential "material breach". Was Joseph Stanton a key member?
It sure sounds like the way the contract was worded, Bungie development was way behind and they just had to ship because it risked losing more and more of their Destiny royalties if they did not. Am I right or wrong in this interpretation? Please some lawyer read this.
Just because you have a terrible memory doesn't mean everyone else does. Also BF doesn't have a story (who plays the single player) so it's a pretty poor comparison.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Alright, let's play this game again. Destiny's story isn't just lacking, it's actively bad. Like, worse than most MMOs. Your not paying attention to the stories in various other games is... sort of secondary. For some people (such as myself) Destiny failed your one requirement, to impart a sense of where we are. It also failed on basically every other level, including unobtrusiveness.
And seriously, false dichotomy much?
They don't have a choice.
I'm pretty sure when developers make an MMO they want it to last as long as possible. FFXI has been around for 12 years and Square is still charging a monthly fee for it. FF14 had to be completely redone because the launch version was a disaster. The current version is going to do well for them for a long time.
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