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RedGamingTech - More PS5 "very unverified" info: Zen 3, SmartShift, Geometry Engine

Whitecrow

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Video here, timestamped:


Key points about the PS5 info:

-GPU sits a max frequenci (2.23GHz) 95% of the time, dropping to 2.1 GHz under heavy CPU load, and that happens "for less than one frame"
-Smartshift can change frequency multiple times for only one frame.

-CPU have 8 MB of unified L3 cache, and this is the "Zen 3 feature", but cores are Zen 2.

-The geometry engine is the secret sauce of the system. Yeah, it has VRS, but at early stages of the rendering pipeline (this means better, because then the rest of the pipeline have already less work).
-It's hardware based, so we do have another PS3 with its SPUs case. A tricky puzzle (is harder to code for it than for the DX12U version of it) that when solved can give great results.
-No game seems to be using it as for now, since it will take time to learn and profit from it. Expect some jaws on the floor with ND a SSM games.

I think, that in the case that all this is true (I'm almost sure it is), gives the PS5 the strenght to really punch above its weight.
As always, the first lineup of games will not be using PS5 at its full power, but later on, using the GI, and more nexgent-coded engines and better smartshift profiling and optimization, PS5 games will really shine.
Then add the Tempest Engine on top.

And as I always say, seems like PS5, beyond its raw specs, is a beautifuly crafted piece of tech and engineering.

Here's more interesting info from the replies:
Smartshift through AMD itself is known to be able to shift every 2ms, so for a 60fps game that's 8 alterations in a 16ms frame. It's not like it dips for minutes or hours or anything like that, it's constantly shifting so both parts can stay near their higher clocks.
The leak also claims 8 and 4 bit integer support for the GPU like XSX.
EDIT
Also, go give the man a like for his work, he deserves it : 3
 
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reforen

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Drewpee

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Video here, timestamped:


Key points about the PS5 info:

-GPU sits a max frequenci (2.23GHz) 95% of the time, dropping to 2.1 GHz under heavy CPU load, and that happens "for less than one frame"
-Smartshift can change frequency multiple times for only one frame.

-CPU have 8 MB of unified L3 cache, and this is the "Zen 3 feature", but cores are Zen 2.

-The geometry engine is the secret sauce of the system. Yeah, it has VRS, but at early stages of the rendering pipeline (this means better, because then the rest of the pipeline have already less work).
-It's hardware based, so we do have another PS3 with its SPUs case. A tricky puzzle (is harder to code for it than for the DX12U version of it) that when solved can give great results.
-No game seems to be using it as for now, since it will take time to learn and profit from it. Expect some jaws on the floor with ND a SSM games.

I think, that in the case that all this is true (I'm almost sure it is), gives the PS5 the strenght to really punch above its weight.
As always, the first lineup of games will not be using PS5 at its full power, but later on, using the GI, and more nexgent-coded engines and better smartshift profiling and optimization, PS5 games will really shine.
Then add the Tempest Engine on top.

And as I always say, seems like PS5, beyond its raw specs, is a beautifuly crafted piece of tech and engineering.

EDIT
Also, go give the man a like for his work, he deserves it : 3

Based on the Halo Infinite reveal I think we are going to have a similar situation to last gen (once the One X released anyway) where the Xbox is the more power machine but the developers with Sony are better at getting the most of out of their system.

Games like God of War and TLOU2 on PS4 looks better than anything Xbox has ever put out.
 
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LordOfChaos

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Some is known information, Smartshift through AMD itself is known to be able to shift every 2ms, so for a 60fps game that's 8 alterations in a 16ms frame. Or 500 times within a second. It's not like it dips for minutes or hours or anything like that, it's constantly shifting so both parts can stay near their higher clocks by effectively sharing their gaps in execution and lower power operations, which there will always be. In the very worst case where both are asked to do a peak power operation they simply downshift for that 2ms slice.

I think the visual graphic wasn't doing him any favors, but waaay back when Cerny said "Variable clocks = continuous boost", that about captures it.

How many of RGT's bigger scoops panned out, out of curiosity?
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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So it's 1 per core?
Yes but no,if you have 1MB per core if a core needs what is in another core's memory pool they need to clear it (on both sides to avoid incoherence) then refill the caches... It's a pretty big performance penalty each time. Not sure what the actual difference is, but I assume something between 5 to 20%.

As for the total cache size, can someone confirm that this is something that traditionally consoles CPUs have skimped on it to reduce price/transistor count?
 
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mckmas8808

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Again 'if true' unified CPU L3 cache would be pretty big news. That's the biggest feature of Zen 3. That would make PS5's CPU superior. The leak also claims 8 and 4 bit integer support for the GPU like XSX.

Why is 8MBs of L3 CPU cache big news?
 

Rolla

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Hope if it’s not true the site is banned around here

He seems to be the latest in a long line of youtubers creating vids, claiming to have an inside source, while knowingly putting out completely false information. I could be wrong of course and he has Cerny and/or others from the PS5 design team feeding him exclusive info but I, personally, find that highly unlikely.

Also his info seems counter to the actual info PS has released.
 
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EliteClarity

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On a side note, this place could to with a "Tier" system for Journalists, websites and YouTube channels and a tag added to the post. Tier 1, most reliable and Tier 4 least reliable.
 
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Whitecrow

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Hope if it’s not true the site is banned around here
Why? He is just speaking what his sources told him and again, is not confirming anything, and he clearly said, "very unverified" information.
If you wanna take like its lying on purpose is not his problem...

I dont know what more someone needs to say in order to express that they are just passing words that might be wrong and they must not be taken as confirmation of anything...
 
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Bittermich

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Honestly, I didnt check. But somehow, the fact the RGT is not dogpilled here gives the impression of being reliable.
Also, I find his way of speaking very unbiased and clear, since he is not confirming anything.

He is very biased towards Sony. He basically loves Sony.
The reason he is not dogpilled here is because he says a lot of good and positive leaks about PS5.

If he would say shit about PS5 he would be dropped off very quickly.
 
Jan 16, 2020
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He is very biased towards Sony. He basically loves Sony.
The reason he is not dogpilled here is because he says a lot of good and positive leaks about PS5.

If he would say shit about PS5 he would be dropped off very quickly.

I'm sure if he wasn't on-point with all his AMD leaks so far he wouldn't be taken so seriously
 
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Whitecrow

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He is very biased towards Sony. He basically loves Sony.
The reason he is not dogpilled here is because he says a lot of good and positive leaks about PS5.

If he would say shit about PS5 he would be dropped off very quickly.
Well I guess you have a point there...
 

SplunkyMunkey

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So basically he saying the PS5 has a Zen2+ CPU (AMD) and a RDNA2+ GPU (through sonys customizations)

Well its full zen 2 so basically saying that the cores are full zen 2 but the L3 cache could possible be used on the ps5 to reduce latency which equates to better usage on the cpu . So basically ps5 cpu > xsx cpu despite 100mhz difference. Also this unified cache will be on zen 3 cpus

Also Gpu will be RDNA 2 the only thing that hes on the gpu itself is the Geometry engine RTG stated there no extra caches no other ram for the caches he also stated that there is some form of infinite cache but its not the same on what u see on the new upcoming amd gpus
 

LordOfChaos

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GHG

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GPU sits a max frequenci (2.23GHz) 95% of the time, dropping to 2.1 GHz under heavy CPU load, and that happens "for less than one frame"



What's the lowest number of teraflops I can calculate from this situation?

I need to know so I can say it at every opportunity.
 

MarkMe2525

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Honestly, I didnt check. But somehow, the fact the RGT is not dogpilled here gives the impression of being reliable.
Also, I find his way of speaking very unbiased and clear, since he is not confirming anything.
Well, he says things that fans of the PlayStation platforms want to hear. His sources are twitter and 4chan. Every "rumor" that he has spoken of, regarding the consoles, has started on those platforms. From Rdna3, last minute spec bump on ps5, to this; all can be found being talked about on those social media platforms before he puts out a video on it. I used to watch his videos pretty consistently, as I am a PlayStation fan myself, until I started noticing this. To be clear though, I'm also an Xbox fan for what its worth. I have owned PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, OG Xbox, Xbox 360, X1X for transparency.

To give him credit, he does seem to have a source (not insider, could be a certain person on twitter he follows) when it comes to AMD's PC gpus. He leverages that info gain creditability. Unfortunately, he has figured out something that a lot of these youtube tech guys have noticed, make a PS5 speculation video and you are going to get a ton of views. When it's all said and done, I could have pegged this guy wrong though only time will tell.

Edit: My opinion obviously.
 
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LucidFlux

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Maybe a team like Digital Foundry talk about it when the embargo is up

Digital Foundry would either need a die shot of the APU, an engine developer or someone from the Sony engineering team to specifically relay this information. It's not something that could be measured through fps or pixel counting.
 
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Md Ray

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It's quite remarkable that full-fat Zen 2 on the desktop has 16MB per cluster (4-cores) as opposed to just 4MB per cluster (4-cores) on Zen 2 mobile (Renoir). A -75% reduction. And it's exactly the same cache setup on XSX and SS as those Renoir APUs. So 4-cores see 4MB essentially.

That said, if this "Zen 3 feature" is true for PS5, then each cluster sees full 8MB? That's what unified here means, right?
 
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GHG

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What are you really trying to do, replace the old favorite xbox fanboy number by a newer one?

I'm taking the piss because the lowest number started with 9.

The whole 9tf number came about because of the old leaks and "we don't know how long the PS5 spends at 2.23ghz".

If the information in the OP is true then they spent months screaming 9tf and getting themselves banned over fabricated bullshit.

Hope they all think it was worth it just for one frame.
 

01011001

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what exactly would the unified cache bring to the table tho?

for real, these CPUs are more than capable enough for 60fps, these features that Zen3 brings to the table on PC are mostly aimed at getting parity with Intel for super high refresh gaming.
 
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Dnice123

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Well if this is true (which I doubt) we would see it in performance numbers. There would be a lot more 60/120fps games instead of 30fps and 'up to' 60fps. I realize this is about trying to 1up Series X with rumors since we don't have details about PS5's APU, but we can see the performance right now in games that have been shown.
 

geordiemp

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What's the lowest number of teraflops I can calculate from this situation?

I need to know so I can say it at every opportunity.

You cant, it says GPU drops to help out CPU when CPU is under heavy load, so no loss in performance

Shifting power around to here its needed from where it is not in that ms.

GPU is never busy when CPU is doing deavy work in gaming, so why not.

If it said GPU frequency drops when GPU is under heavy load, (GPU needs power) then you can say its loosing performance.
 
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