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[Majine]

????

There's a difference between a revision and a completely new system. No one counts revisions as generations in themselves.

Why not? It's new hardware. The exterior is new and the interiors have been shrunken down. Besides, if you're stuck in the "Time" argument, you have admittedly said that hardware doesn't matter, only that they are released within some timeframe and the PS3 Superslim fits that bill.

And as for the "Wii was not in the PS2/Xbox/GC gen", I say competition extends beyond generations.

 

[SpoonyBard]

There was the 8-bit generation with NES and SMS

The PCE/TG-16 was kind of in-between because it wasn't a true 16-bit system and many of its games still had 8-bit characteristics to them, although for an 8-bit system it was definitely supercharged so to speak.

There was the 16-bit generation with SNES and Genesis/MD, more colors, bigger more detailed sprites and better sound

Then there was the first 3D generation with N64, PSX, Saturn. Very primitive 3D graphics and all of them had their own specific shortcomings in displaying 3D.

There was Jaguar/3DO/CD32 half-generation before PSX generation, and one could argue that Sega CD was also a somewhat a generational leap over MD/Genesis. CD music and full motion video were certainly something completely new on home consoles (PC Engine notwithstanding). Silpheed on Sega CD was pretty damn impressive at the time...

But yeah, console generations are more or less based on how successful said consoles are. Wii is now part of the PS360 generation because it was so successful, and Wii U will be counted as next gen machine, as long as it is successful. It doesn't matter if it's just 2-3x times as powerful as xbox 360, whatever that means.

 

[MetatronM]

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

 

[DGRE]

And the WiiU is not more powerful than PS360, so it´s not more powerful than current gen, therefor it´s current gen, while both the 3DS and the Vita were more powerful than the DS and PSP.

Makes no sense. 3DS is not that much more powerful than the PSP, so it should be last-gen at this point.

 

[Majine]

Makes no sense. 3DS is not that much more powerful than the PSP, so it should be last-gen at this point.

It isn't? I thought the thing about the 3DS is that it is more powerful than what it shows since it essentially has to run all games twice at once.

 

[QaaQer]

Is 32nm not possible?

possible but unlikely. cost and low yields being the two biggies. 40 nm makes so much more sense for a 2012 economy console.

 

[Bgamer90]

Why not? It's new hardware. The exterior is new and the interiors have been shrunken down. Besides, if you're stuck in the "Time" argument, you have admittedly said that hardware doesn't matter, only that they are released within some timeframe and the PS3 Superslim fits that bill.

But revisions aren't successors. The superslim was just a revision that was made to add more life on to the aging system (as most system revisions are).

 

[?oe?oe]

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

Stop making so much sense! This is NEOGAF.

 

[IrishNinja]

Yes.

so you see where that definition falls apart, then. good.

really don't know why so many on this page are indulging in such sophistry; it's pretty simple. WU is 8th gen, PS4 and nextbox will be along shortly.

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

quoted again in hope it helps understanding around here.

 

[Bgamer90]

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-250632.html

Booom!

From 1999:
http://money.cnn.com/1999/03/01/life/playstation/

 

[Globox_82]

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

I have 5 HDTVs in my house two of them are full HD. TV independent thing might matter in Japan, where you live in a little tiny appartment. In the west (EU, UK, USA) that doesn't mean much. Why would anyone want to play like that? It's not a handheld. You buy a console for different reasons. If you can afford a new console I am sure as hell you can afford one small cheap HDtv just for gaming. So that your girlfriend, wife, kids, ET or whoever can watch TV if they like
And btw I am not rich or anything.

 

[Majine]

But revisions aren't successors. The superslim was just a revision that was made to add more life on to the aging system (as most system revisions are).

The Superslim will most likely be on the market long after the OG Slim has ceased production, so yes, it should be considered a successor according to your logic.

 

[alphaNoid]

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

Still struggles to look as good as a 7 year old console. So for that, all the bitching is justified.

You'll have to learn to live with it, because it's never going away. Consumers expect more.

 

[Seik]

Lots of ways to define a "generation."

You can define strictly in terms of release date, which tells us absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the system or the types of games it will be able to run. Defining it strictly by release date means that the Gameboy Micro is the same generation as the DS and PSP and the new Neo Geo mini arcade is the same generation as the Playstation Vita

Well I see a home console generation as an era were various major companies in the industry are facing each other during X amount of time.

For example:
-'NES-SMS'
-'SNES-GEN'
-'N64-Playstation'
-'DC(RIP)-GC-PS2-Xbox'
-'Wii-PS3-360'
-'Wii U-PS4-720'

That way, understand that saying that Wii U is be last gen while there will still be games coming out for it 1 year after the PS4/720 launches feels awkward.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

then please define the phrase 'generational leap' when used with respect to game consoles.

Obviously refers to power and graphics but also control options too. The Wii U is a 'leap' from the Wii - it's far more powerful, and introduces new concepts (the controller) for the coming 5-6 years of gaming. The GamePad - successful or not - obviously has ambitions for creating new ways of playing console games.

See MetatronM's post. He explains what I think much better than I can.

But I will agree that the Wii U just hitting 'around about' the same power as Xbox/PS3 blurs the lines a little.

 

[IrishNinja]

Stop using human definition on technology. A generation in technology has always meant and it always will mean much more power, than previous generation.

Exactly. If Acer brought out a new laptop with old 486 technology, but used a new product code, that wouldn't be next gen either.

some of ya'll should look up GPU's, your definition doesn't fit there either

And yes, when it comes to gaming history, the Wii U will be looked at as belonging to the same gen as the next Xbox and Playstation (the 8th generation) since it's a successor.

Whether or not the Wii U feels like a next-gen system though is a different story.

precisely what it comes down to.

Still struggles to look as good as a 7 year old console. So for that, all the bitching is justified.

has nothing to do with the point at hand, but yeah, i always judge systems on launch ports, good call.

 

[AzaK]

I have 5 HDTVs in my house two of them are full HD. TV independent thing might matter in Japan, where you live in a little tiny appartment. In the west (EU, UK, USA) that doesn't mean much. Why would anyone want to play like that? It's not a handheld. You buy a console for different reasons. If you can afford a new console I am sure as hell you can afford one small cheap HDtv just for gaming. So that your girlfriend, wife, kids, ET or whoever can watch TV if they like
And btw I am not rich or anything.

I only have one, and I'm in the west. I don't have spare rooms for gaming or extra TVs and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. Off TV play will get a lot of time in my house.

Horses for courses.

 

[Bgamer90]

The Superslim will most likely be on the market long after the OG Slim has ceased production, so yes, it should be considered a successor according to your logic.

It still being available =/= it being a successor.

My logic had nothing to do with systems still being available for purchase. That's silly. Really stretching things now.

 

[Majine]

It still being available =/= successor.

??

Wii is still available, PS2 is still available.

 

[polyh3dron]

Irish, I'm sorry but you're not making much sense.

 

[Bgamer90]

??

Wii is still available, PS2 is still available.

Who is saying that the PS2 is a current gen system due to it though?

The PS2 will more than likely still be available in a few stores somewhere once the PS4 is out. No one is going to say that the PS2 belongs in the same gen as the PS4 though.

 

[Thoraxes]

??

Wii is still available, PS2 is still available.

So is the PSP.

 

[Majine]

The PS2 will more than likely still be available in a few stores somewhere once the PS4 is out. No one is going to say that the PS2 belongs in the same gen as the PS4 though.

So you ARE judging generations by power after all? Good, then Wii U is your current-gen system. There you go.

 

[IHaveCandy]

The Wii U is Nintendo's next generation of video game consoles.

 

[IrishNinja]

Irish, I'm sorry but you're not making much sense.

i was saying how you called wii the same gen as PS2/xbox, i thought it obvious why it kinda fell apart there. unless you've got an alternate reality gen thing in your head where dreamcast survived and gamecube went solo against it, which is cool too now that i think about it.

nintendo went lateral with development after GC, lower spec but new inputs is the obvious MO from iwata and i think we've all seen why that worked for them. choosing to define generations strictly on processing power/hardware specs (and here, even more specifically, by that one of one's rivals) seems needlessly arbitrary, is my point.

im kinda surprised to see some of the more intelligent posters still on about this, if i'm being honest. i was hoping we'd be past this more after launch - apologies if said surprise reads as hostility, just kinda tired of this weird linguistic game at the moment.

So you ARE judging generations by power after all? Good, then Wii U is your current-gen system. There you go.

...i mean, look at this guy go.

 

[Mindlog]

Who is saying that the PS2 is a current gen systems due to it though?

The PS2 will more than likely still be available in a few stores somewhere once the PS4 is out. No one is going to say that the PS2 belongs in the same gen as the PS4 though.

The Neo-Geo X is an 8th gen console. Where is the line drawn? I guess it only counts as new if something is discontinued then reintroduced?

im kinda surprised to see some of the more intelligent posters still on about this, if i'm being honest. i was hoping we'd be past this more after launch - apologies if said surprise reads as hostility, just kinda tired of this weird linguistic game at the moment.

Let's pretend the Wii was a gen 6.5 console.
What's that harm?

Immediately I think of a machine with an advantage over PS2/XBOX/GC. It probably had its success after the previously mentioned consoles and had several features not seen in its direct predecessors. Even though it possibly competed with Gen 7 equipment (it beat them handily) there wasn't as much overlap as one would typically expect.

This is just a harmless discussion. I don't mean to impugn anyone's honour. I apologize if this comes across as beating a dead horse. It's just that this discussion is so common in other fields that I'm baffled as to why gamers take it so seriously.

 

[Bgamer90]

So you ARE judging generations by power after all? Good, then Wii U is your current-gen system. There you go.

Heh, no it's not about power. It's simply about the system being a successor... a sequel to the system that the same company previously made.

 

[polyh3dron]

i was saying how you called wii the same gen as PS2/xbox, i thought it obvious why it kinda fell apart there.

Why is it so obvious that it fell apart? What is so wrong about that?

And yeah I guess Neo Geo X is next gen too lol

 

[Majine]

Heh, no it's not about power. It's simply about the system being a successor... a sequel to the system that the same company previously made.

Oh jesus, are we gonna go around this circle a second time? The PS3 Superslim is made by the same company that previously made the PS3 Slim.

 

[IrishNinja]

Why is it so obvious that it fell apart? What is so wrong about that?

because the wii was the next iteration of hardware: marginally better than the GC, sure, but new input devices. new games were made that coulnd'tve been played on its predecessor.

the leap from the Wii to the WU is even larger - specifically where are you arbitrarily drawing your line in the sand and saying "this is it, next gen must be THIS TALL"? what processor/RAM/GPU combo is it, or how many FPS/what res is required, and how do you adjust those parameters for yourself every gen?

because by using the more universally accepted definition, i don't have to dance this dance. Ouya drops next year, its in the same gen. the fact the Vita can and probably will make the 3DS look dated doesn't magically put the latter in a prior gen, either.

let me then ask you: what is so wrong about this? also to your edit: haha okay but neo geo's a handheld emulator, is it not? maybe we can call it a mad-late hardware revision if that makes you more comfortable heh

 

[Bgamer90]

The Neo-Geo X is an 8th gen console. Where is the line drawn?

Is it a successor or is it a revision?

I guess it only counts as new if something is discontinued then reintroduced?

What? If that's the case the it's just a reintroduction.

Our hobby's generational nomenclature is completely devoid of meaning when compared to other industries.

Heh, it's simply based on what gaming companies call and/or market as true successors. Don't get why it's such a debate.

 

[Bgamer90]

Oh jesus, are we gonna go around this circle a second time? The PS3 Superslim is made by the same company that previously made the PS3 Slim.

What?!?

The PS3 superslim isn't considered a successor to the previous PS3 models. It's just a revision.

 

[Brashnir]

Oh jesus, are we gonna go around this circle a second time? The PS3 Superslim is made by the same company that previously made the PS3 Slim.

Only one person here is caught in a logic circle. Most of us can make common-sense assessments without twisting ourselves into some crazed, addled state.

 

[XtremeXpider]

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

What can define a "generation leap"? Is it the timeframe? Is it the power? Is it just the launch of a new hardware? is it a group of consoles with something in common (capacity to running the same software, for example)?

 

[Seik]

What can define a "generation leap"? Is it the timeframe? Is it the power? Is it just the launch of a new hardware? is it a group of consoles with something in common (capacity to running the same software, for example)?

It's the specific time were the big hats of the industry are facing each other with their respective consoles.

Making the Wii U next gen, because it'll live for the same amount of time as the PS4/720, it'll be Nintendo's answer to Sony and M$ during this time frame.

Think about it, let's say, in 20 years, when people will be talking about it for example. They'll talk about the Wii U as a direct competitor to the Xbox 720 and the PS4.

 

[Majine]

Only one person here is caught in a logic circle. Most of us can make common-sense assessments without twisting ourselves into some crazed, addled state.

I think I was pretty clear.

Do people consider 360 + Smartglass as next-gen btw, while we're at it.

 

[Bgamer90]

I think I was pretty clear.

Do people consider 360 + Smartglass as next-gen btw?

Is MS stating & marketing the 360 + Smartglass as being their next gen system that they want to latch on to for the next 5-6 years?

 

[XtremeXpider]

It's the specific time were the big hats of the industry are facing each other with their respective consoles.

What if Microsoft try to launch a new console, a console with the power of Xbox 360 but with a new controller, a new form and a new name, a year before next powerful Xbox. Is this "next gen"?

 

[Majine]

Is MS stating & marketing the 360 + Smartglass as being their next gen system?

Yeah, let's leave it to the companies marketing teams. People like Reggie can't be wrong.

Man, if Sony markets PS4 as nextnext-gen, things are gonna get fucked up.

 

[Seik]

What if Microsoft try to launch a new console, a console with the power of Xbox 360 but with a new controller, a new form and a new name, a year before next powerful Xbox. Is this "next gen"?

Not really, because it'll be the same hardware, in this case it's more like a revision, comparable to a thinner version of X console.

New form and name, well, that would be weird for only one year. A 'new' console normally have a 5 years lifespan. Though if you mean it in a way it could be sold and advertised the same time frame the 720 is, it could be part of next-gen. Though I doubt M$ would pull two consoles at the same time. Your example kinda doesn't work.

 

[Bgamer90]

What if Microsoft try to launch a new console, a console with the power of Xbox 360 but with a new controller, a new form and a new name, a year before next powerful Xbox. Is this "next gen"?

If it's what they put out as the successor to the 360, yep.

 

[Castor Krieg]

It's a shame Reggie has to lie. With new Playstation and Xbox coming next year it will come down to what it always comes down to - you get Nintendo console if you enjoy playing Nintendo games, because sure as hell you are not going to find it anywhere else. We will see if the new generation of gamers feel the same about Mario and Zelda as their older peers.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Not really, because it'll be the same hardware, in this case it's more like a revision, comparable to a thinner version of X console.

New form and name, well, that would be weird for only one year.

If it's what they put out as the successor to the 360, yep.

And then...?

Is the timeframe? Is the change of hardware?

 

[DjRoomba]

What if Microsoft try to launch a new console, a console with the power of Xbox 360 but with a new controller, a new form and a new name, a year before next powerful Xbox. Is this "next gen"?

What a retarded comparison.

 

[Bgamer90]

Yeah, let's leave it to the companies marketing teams. People like Reggie can't be wrong.

???

It's not just about marketing. It's how the company feels as a whole. It takes more than just marketing to make a new system that's suppose to last 4+ years.

 

[ymmv]

This weird obsession with trying to shoehorn everything Nintendo does as "last gen" is asinine. There's more to the technology of video games than just the number of polygons being pushed or pixels being rendered or CPU power.

The Wii was part of the PS360 gen, period. It was the industry leader that introduced revolutionary control schemes and forced Sony and Microsoft to scramble to play catch up with the technological innovation that was actually driving sales through most of the generation (hint: it wasn't processing power). It was a different approach, a different KIND of generational leap, but a generational leap none the less.

The Wii U is a generational leap beyond that, taking those innovations for the Wii, catching up to the PS360 in terms of raw horsepower under the hood, and introducing more new concepts that might or might not be revolutionary, most notably TV-independent console gaming. Whether or not it's going to be an industry leader like its predecessor remains to be seen (I'm guessing likely not, but we still don't know much of anything about its competition at the moment).

Just because Nintendo is making different kinds of technological advancements than their competitors doesn't mean they are not making generational advancements.

The Wii U is a generational leap compared to the Wii. Yes.

The Wii U falls into the next gen category because it will have to compete with other next gen consoles released at more or less the same time (Xbox 720, PS4).

But it falls short in CPU/graphics power, another way we separate console gens. It looks like the Wii U is about as powerful as a 7 year old Xbox and that makes a huge difference when it comes to porting games. The extra oomph in CPU processing is squandered by a weak CPU and low RAM bandwidth. If the new Microsoft and Sony consoles are a true generational leap from their predecessors, the difference in power between the Wii U and PS4/Xbox 720/PC could become just as unsurmountable as the one between the Wii and the PS3/Xbox 360/PC. It won't matter that much this year and in 2013 when there'll be plenty of "current gen" games coming out, but when devs really switch to games that really need the processing power the new Sony and MS consoles have, the Wii U will be left stranded with only Nintendo there for the big sellers.

 

[XtremeXpider]

What a retarded comparison.

I'm not comparing anything.

 

[Bgamer90]

And then...?

Is the timeframe? Is the change of hardware?

It's simply what they state as being the successor to the 360 in answer to the competition (or the competition's future plans).

Whether or not people would view it as something that actually feels like a next gen console though is a different story.

 

[AzaK]

What if Microsoft try to launch a new console, a console with the power of Xbox 360 but with a new controller, a new form and a new name, a year before next powerful Xbox. Is this "next gen"?

This "next-gen" "not next-gen" shit is like two insane lunatics rambling at each other where one is yelling about how he likes long socks and the other about how he prefers Tuesdays.

 

[Majine]

???

It's not just about marketing. It's how the company feels as a whole. It takes more than just marketing to make a new system that's suppose to last 4+ years.

Well, they stated several times that Kinect was "like" a new console.