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Reggie: Wii U name not responsible for console's problems.

Sturm

Banned
No reggie, the name is the problem.

There are loads of customers in the gameshop that are asking what the WiiU is, and most of them assume it's an addon for the wii. Normal consumers still don't get that it's a new system. And that's the fault of Nintendo (Marketing). Yet they have done nothing to fix that.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Nintendo succeed attracting casual gamers with the wii, so nintendo aimed to them again with the wiiu but now casuals are attracted by other things.

I think that nintendo is learning the hard way how unreliable and unfaithful is the casual market.
 

Opiate

Member
Generally I am against the notion of all encompassing answers, as if there is "one problem" and by fixing that specific problem everything will suddenly be amazing. This is not a Wii U specific concept.

It's a variety of issues. Game selection is easily the most serious problem. The lack of appeal of the game pad is another. The name is another. The inability to get third parties on board is a fourth issue related to others. It is a long list of problems (and to be clear, every system has problems, even if they are quite successful), so anyone claiming to have found the problem to fix everything should be treated like a person who claims to have the cure for all diseases.
 

Vinci

Danish
The following would be an interesting experiment for Reggie and Co. to run:

Promote an event at a large mall inviting people to come to try out the Wii's latest innovation. Have people try out the GamePad, play Lego City, NintendoLand, NSMBU, abd Art Academy.

Anyone. Kids, old folks, whatever. And then tell them, "This GamePad will allow your Wii to play games it otherwise couldn't, it will allow your kids to play games while you watch TV, allow you to display your artistic side using Art Academy, and surf an innovative, positive social network safe for kids and adults alike. And you can have this - this amazing piece of technology and plethora of new experiences - for only $99."

See if people are willing to pay for that. If so, use this to determine whether people genuinely don't like the GamePad or if they're confused why this new Wii peripheral cannot be purchased on its own for their existing Wii systems. Also, give them a Wii U for the $99.
 

Opiate

Member
Nintendo succeed attracting casual gamers with the wii, so nintendo aimed to them again with the wiiu but now casuals are attracted by other things.

I think that nintendo is learning the hard way how unreliable and unfaithful is the casual market.

How faithful and reliable were "traditional" gamers back in the 80s, when Atari rose and fell, Collecovision collapsed in to nothingness, and Turbo-Grafx 16 took off then subsequently lost all traction?

New markets usually see a lot of overturn in their early days, then gradually become more stable and more predictable. That was true of "traditional" gaming and true of "casual" gaming now.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Nintendo succeed attracting casual gamers with the wii, so nintendo aimed to them again with the wiiu but now casuals are attracted by other things.

I think that nintendo is learning the hard way how unreliable and unfaithful is the casual market.

I was of the notion that the Wii U was garnered towards the opposite of the casual market. And that is the reason for it's failure. Outside of Nintendo fans such as I, I fear no one has any current incentive to buy the system until the heavy hitters release this holiday or even next year.

And the success of the 3DS is likely overshadowing their very own console.

Miyamoto - "The 3DS isn't getting a new model" 3DS XL launches weeks later.
Iwata - "Price isn't the issue" Price drops weeks later.
Reggie - "Name not the problem" Name change before the end of the year.

You might have something here.
 
Miyamoto - "The 3DS isn't getting a new model" 3DS XL launches weeks later.
Iwata - "Price isn't the issue" Price drops weeks later.
Reggie - "Name not the problem" Name change before the end of the year.

I know we like to talk about the stuff these guys say, but I think everyone should remember that there's good chance they're lying to us....ABOUT EVERYTHING.
 

mj1108

Member
The other theory about the Wii U 's slow start is that people might not know it exists, that they think it's just a peripheral. This very issue cropped up shortly after the Wii U's E3 2012 debut.

As we sit here today again I would say that's not the issue," Fils-Aime said.

Wrong, Reggie.

Very, very wrong. There are many people out there that think this is an accessory for the Wii.
 

rpmurphy

Member
Wrong, Reggie.

Very, very wrong. There are many people out there that think this is an accessory for the Wii.
Even if it were many people, the central reason why they're not buying it would still be the same: no compelling software. If there was a killer app, you bet they'd be lining up out the door for this "Wii accessory".
 

RagnarokX

Member
I'd say the name really isn't a big problem... for literate people, or at least it shouldn't be. I'd say the real problem or bigger problem is the information distribution channels. The same consumers who get confused by Wii U are the same that wouldn't know a new Playstation was coming out. The media is paid to be informed but they can't even get 2DS right after the DS brand has been on the market for 9 years. These information channels are closed off to Nintendo because of the incompetence of the press and actively causing harm that Nintendo has to fight against. Nintendo has to tell consumers themselves that Wii U is a new console and counteract incompetent press.

Wii 2 would have done this job for them and is probably the name they should have gone with, but they wouldn't need it so much if the press would pull their heads from their asses.

Also XBox One is a name that should be confusing. How will that do?
 

Verendus

Banned
I think it's a combination of things, name certainly being one of them, but I believe it's the brand and the company itself which are the biggest problem.

The name certainly has issues because it's confusing, needlessly complicated, and isn't easy to market. Add in the fact that they seem to have a bit of an issue adapting or understanding what their own focus is with the console, and it becomes more difficult.

The biggest problem with the Wii U is Nintendo itself really. What is different from the Wii U now, than with the N64 and the Gamecube? It's the same downward spiral. Wii avoided this by using motion controls and effectively targeting the casual market and bringing a previously uninterested audience to the platform. However the larger problem, which is with the Nintendo brand itself, remains. Nintendo have done a fantastic job of essentially isolating themselves from the general direction of the gaming industry, and really drilling into the minds of people that their brand isn't where you go to enjoy the variety of third party games most core gamers enjoy. That's one market which was neglected. Then you add in the problem of the casual market now having other devices such as tablets and smartphones, and it's becoming much harder for Nintendo to find that necessary audience.

The rest of the industry is quite different now. It all began from PS1, and more notably, the PS2. It was the change of consoles from just a pure gaming device to more of a media system. Then along came this past generation, and for the core gamers, online became a significant part of the package also. You essentially have Sony and Microsoft competing for this markets attention now, and they are providing consoles which are much more powerful, more media focused, yet will still retain the majority of traditional games as the rest of the industry is moving with them. This is where a lot of the gaming buzz is going to, and where a lot of the traditional industry is focused.

Nintendo is being left behind in that regard, and you can't really blame them for trying to bring another gimmick to try and compete. That's all they can do. They have a huge challenge in front of them to try and create their own distinct, and appealing brand for consumers, but it's also difficult for them to all of a sudden try and compete with Sony/Microsoft in the jack of all trades devices they're making. They lack a proper accounts system, their online infrastructure is terrible, they don't have a multi-media device, and their latest console is a little out of date, whilst also being entirely reliant on a gimmick. The other problem is that Nintendo themselves seem to have been very unprepared for HD development, so whatever advantage could have come from that, has been wasted. And to face facts, their franchises aren't strong enough to carry a console.

It's why this console is being beaten to an early grave and is struggling so much with brand, vision, focus, and general appeal.

Basically, Krillin is shit.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
Even if it were many people, the central reason why they're not buying it would still be the same: no compelling software. If there was a killer app, you bet they'd be lining up out the door for this "Wii accessory".

People don't spend 300 dollars on an "accessory".
 

TGRS2K

Neo Member
It's definitely a part of the problem. I wonder if they really think this way or if it's just press talk. Of coarse you wouldn't admit something you weren't going to change, but do they really have their head in the sand so much to not know there's a problem?
 
People don't spend 300 dollars on an "accessory".

Well...I don't know. If they want it enough, they will. Guitar Hero wasn't $300, but it sure was expensive for a single game (and more expensive with each new guitar bundle), and we all know how ridiculously popular that was.

But it's moot, because for the most part, the Wii U is not something that people want, but are holding off due to price. First Nintendo needs to make people want it, and then maybe they'll be in that situation.
 

Nymphae

Banned
It's a large part of the problem in my mind. It makes no sense. How does the "U" signify what the console is about? A "U" isn't a 2, or a super, or deluxe. It's different, but confusingly so, I can see how some non informed people might think it's a peripheral or something.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's a large part of the problem in my mind. It makes no sense. How does the "U" signify what the console is about? A "U" isn't a 2, or a super, or deluxe. It's different, but confusingly so, I can see how some non informed people might think it's a peripheral or something.

It's about you. The single player experience. As in. Not choreographed towards that larger non-gaming casual market.
 

Vinci

Danish
Well...I don't know. If they want it enough, they will. Guitar Hero wasn't $300, but it sure was expensive for a single game (and more expensive with each new guitar bundle), and we all know how ridiculously popular that was.

But it's moot, because for the most part, the Wii U is not something that people want, but are holding off due to price. First Nintendo needs to make people want it, and then maybe they'll be in that situation.

That's the thing: We can't say they don't want it, because we don't know what 'it' is from their perspective currently. Is it a new system? It is an add-on to the Wii that, for some reason, isn't sold separately? A person's response to its price-point is going to fluctuate dramatically depending on which question they say 'Yes' to.

We can't make any clear-cut determinations on it at the moment other than there is some great degree of confusion surrounding this thing that people are being asked to spend $300 for.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
60 % lack of commanding software
10 % lack of/poor marketing
20 % structural changes in hw/electronic consumer markets / saturation
10 % price

that's my layman perception of the difficulties :p
 
I think the name has become less of a problem over time, but it may still confuse a few people.

Kids know the difference, and have done quite a bit to properly educate their parents. Hopefully the holiday will see a lot of Wii U sales.
 

RagnarokX

Member
It's a large part of the problem in my mind. It makes no sense. How does the "U" signify what the console is about? A "U" isn't a 2, or a super, or deluxe. It's different, but confusingly so, I can see how some non informed people might think it's a peripheral or something.

How does "360" imply that XBox 360 is a new console? XBox One? Nintendo 64? 64 what?

Even back in the day they went from NES to Super NES. Does "super" concretely imply a totally new console? I could certainly see people based on the name alone thinking it was just an upgrade or an NES with new features. Maybe Super NES was just a deluxe NES bundle.
 

weevles

Member
The name certainly played a role because the system wasn't marketed properly as a brand new device centered around "new" technology. A ton of people bought into the Wii as a fad and then left it in droves when the fad wore off. Those people aren't coming back to Wii and never will, but some of them may have been brought back in again by the Touchpad since that is the current thing. Give the system a new name, market the hell of the thing's touchpad, and you'll last a little longer than just the short holiday rush.

The software argument doesn't necessarily work for Nintendo here because the Wii didn't really have much software after launch either, but it had Wii Sports which seemed to be the killer app that everyone could relate to--so much so that no one needed or wanted any other game. Wii was notorious for being a huge hardware seller but a horrible software seller. The system had the right price, the right gimmick, and the right pack-in game at the right time.

So back to Reggie and "software sells". Well, yes it does, but these are game consoles and game consoles sell to gamers and kids. It seemed like what titles they did have missed the mark with both, especially at the hardware price point they were forced to go with. $200-$250 for a game console seems to be the sweet spot for mass market consumers. Anything more and you're looking at early adopters and hardcore/core fans only. And you'd better have something compelling going at that rate.
 
How does "360" imply that XBox 360 is a new console? XBox One? Nintendo 64? 64 what?

Even back in the day they went from NES to Super NES. Does "super" concretely imply a totally new console? I could certainly see people based on the name alone thinking it was just an upgrade or an NES with new features. Maybe Super NES was just a deluxe NES bundle.

All of those systems had significant changes in their form factor and advertising materials. Look at them: new fonts, new controllers, new cases, new boxes, new game boxes, new colors, and on and on. At a glance, you could see that these were something different.

The Wii U looks just like a Wii. All the promotional materials are very similar to Wii accessories, such as Wii Fit with its balance board, or Wii Motion Plus, etc.
 
How does "360" imply that XBox 360 is a new console? XBox One? Nintendo 64? 64 what?

Even back in the day they went from NES to Super NES. Does "super" concretely imply a totally new console? I could certainly see people based on the name alone thinking it was just an upgrade or an NES with new features. Maybe Super NES was just a deluxe NES bundle.

I think part of the problem is that "Wii" (which comes before "U" in the name) was plastered everywhere.

So you've got:

Wii Sports
Wii Sports Resort
Wii Play
Wii Fit
Wii Fit +
Wii Balance Board
Wii U
Wii Zapper
Wii Motion Plus
Wii Music
Mario Kart Wii
New Super Mario Wii

I think people understand the idea of a brand and then a qualifier. So there's Xbox, and then Xbox 360, and then Xbox One. There's Nintendo, and Super Nintendo, and Nintendo 64.

But with Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64, all the games were named after the qualifier. Super This, and Super That. This 64, and That 64. With Wii, all the games and myriad of peripherals were named after the brand. Wii This, and Wii That. So when a Wii Something came out, it looked like another extension of the Wii.

And after abandoning the console for 2-3 years, seemingly everyone knew that "Wii" had become a toxic brand. Wii burned bright, but flamed out.

Of course, this isn't their biggest problem. Games are.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
All of those systems had significant changes in their form factor and advertising materials. Look at them: new fonts, new controllers, new cases, new boxes, new game boxes, new colors, and on and on. At a glance, you could see that these were something different.

The Wii U looks just like a Wii. All the promotional materials are very similar to Wii accessories, such as Wii Fit with its balance board, or Wii Motion Plus, etc.

Spot on.
 
So first Nintendo says that price isn't the problem, now they're saying the name isn't.

I wonder what they think the problem is. Maybe they're aware that the core value proposition of the Wii U is flawed? It's a completely redundant console to own if you already have a PS3 or 360 and have no interest in Nintendo games. And even if you are interested in Nintendo games, those have been coming in at a trickle and the 3DS is a better platform for those currently.
 

Nymphae

Banned
How does "360" imply that XBox 360 is a new console? XBox One? Nintendo 64? 64 what?

Even back in the day they went from NES to Super NES. Does "super" concretely imply a totally new console? I could certainly see people based on the name alone thinking it was just an upgrade or an NES with new features. Maybe Super NES was just a deluxe NES bundle.

360 and 64 were at least higher numbers, I don't think there was a lot of confusion about which generation of console people were buying when they saw those things. N64 was all about the 64 bits and that was a selling point, so much so that they named the system after that. What does U mean? Me? You? What the fuck.

And no, "Super" does not necessarily imply a totally new console, it DOES however imply a BETTER one, as does the 360 name I think. How does the Wii U name imply that?
 

Breemin

Member
Its true non gamers don't even know a new Nintendo console exists since the wii...

A friend came over my house a few days ago to hang out, he likes games but is not a big gamer like I am. I asked him if he ever has played with the wii-u because I have one and asked if he wanted to check it out..

His answer was:
Huh really? Nintendo has a new console? I had no clue!!
My answer:
Yes its actually been out since last year! Doh
 
Well he isn't necessarily wrong. The name was a dumb mistake that certainly didnt help, but even a different name wouldn't have changed the fact that the system does not appeal to the mass market at all. The tablet controller doesn't. The price doesn't. The software lineup doesn't. It would have flopped even if they had called it the Super Wii or Nintendo U or whatever other names people like to throw around as alternatives.
 

Breemin

Member
Well he isn't necessarily wrong. The name was a dumb mistake that certainly didnt help, but even a different name wouldn't have changed the fact that the system does not appeal to the mass market at all. The tablet controller doesn't. The price doesn't. The software lineup doesn't. It would have flopped even if they had called it the Super Wii or Nintendo U or whatever other names people like to throw around as alternatives.

Your right, but I do think however that if they named it something like "wii 2" more people would understand its the next one and a new one and more would sell for that fact alone.

People simply don't know it exists and what it is.
 
Your right, but I do think however that if they named it something like "wii 2" more people would understand its the next one and a new one and more would sell for that fact alone.

People simply don't know it exists and what it is.
And worst of all, when they find out what it is, they don't care.
 
I just had someone in work today ask me to recommend what console they should buy for their 8 year old son.

They were aware of the Xbox One and PS4, and when I mentioned the Wii U they said 'he got that when he was 5'.

I then tried to explain that it has only been out a year and it was an entirely different entity, they didn't understand.

They went with the PS4.
 
Your right, but I do think however that if they named it something like "wii 2" more people would understand its the next one and a new one and more would sell for that fact alone.

People simply don't know it exists and what it is.

And they still wouldn't want it. Simply knowing what it is doesn't mean people are going to be willing to drop $300+ for something with nothing to appeal to non-Nintendo diehards. That is the real problem. A new name is not going to overcome that.

It's not like people are gathered around Wii u kiosks at target and Walmart trying to figure out what it is. People just don't care.
 
Your right, but I do think however that if they named it something like "wii 2" more people would understand its the next one and a new one and more would sell for that fact alone.

People simply don't know it exists and what it is.
But how much is more? I don't think a different name would change anything,like NinjaScooter said people just don't want the thing.
 
This man has absolute no clue about what's going on around him in the gaming market, isn't he? There's confusion, it boogles me how someone responsible for advertising Nintendo's products is unable to see this.
 

Mondriaan

Member
I think Reggie should have used a different tact- the problem with the Wii U was that the Wii was just so amazing that it was impossible for any product to follow up.

Then he could say that it's not measuring up because they haven't worked out the messaging that would sell consumers on the value of a controller with a screen on it.
 

Tobor

Member
Reggie and Iwata are both on message. "It's all about the games". " no other problems".

So what happens when these magical games don't turn things around?
 

kcxtorrent

Neo Member
I'm sorry but I'm still not over the fireworks display of Nintendoland ending E3 2 years ago and not showing any of the games actually in it.
 
I think part of the problem is that "Wii" (which comes before "U" in the name) was plastered everywhere.

So you've got:

Wii Sports
Wii Sports Resort
Wii Play
Wii Fit
Wii Fit +
Wii Balance Board
Wii U
Wii Zapper
Wii Motion Plus
Wii Music
Mario Kart Wii
New Super Mario Wii

I think people understand the idea of a brand and then a qualifier. So there's Xbox, and then Xbox 360, and then Xbox One. There's Nintendo, and Super Nintendo, and Nintendo 64.

But with Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64, all the games were named after the qualifier. Super This, and Super That. This 64, and That 64. With Wii, all the games and myriad of peripherals were named after the brand. Wii This, and Wii That. So when a Wii Something came out, it looked like another extension of the Wii.

And after abandoning the console for 2-3 years, seemingly everyone knew that "Wii" had become a toxic brand. Wii burned bright, but flamed out.

Of course, this isn't their biggest problem. Games are.
This is my thought on the issue as well. If Wii hadn't been thrown into the titles for so many games and accessories, Wii U could have sounded like something new. Heck, even just calling it the U would have been less confusing.

I feel like Reggie is judging public awareness based on fan / hardcore feedback rather than the general population. I mean we're talking about the same type of people that couldn't understand why a Super Nintendo wouldn't play their old Nintendo games.
 
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