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[deepbrown]

Let's see... I'd describe the show as rock-tastic. From our Mystery Guest to our I Want Your Job interview, there's a definite tilt towards rocking out.

There's some Resistance 2 updates - including our favorite Brit (not Rolf) stopping by to talk about mo-cap - and make my life editing hell as I have to constantly edit out his references to a creature we haven't announced yet.

Oh, and Rolf reminisces about his Phil Harrison memories, and I make fun of Major Nelson playing Taps for HD-DVD.

and finally, we announce that we will be expanding the podcast to a fourth chair in April. Who will be the new person be? Tune in tomorrow.

Kittonwy?

 

[Arkham]

Wy does everyone call him 'Mike Action' while it's clear the man is called 'Mike Acton'??

His tag should be "Max Power".

 

[FoxSpirit]

It means (in some cases) we've added a stage to the typical shader pipeline.

Instead of:
(Vertex Stream) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

We can also do:
(Vertex Stream) -> (SPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

So that some things that might normally be done in the GPU vertex shader can be "lifted" to the SPUs. Some of the benefits to doing this:

1. Transfer some of the load from the GPU to the SPUs.

2. Minimize complexity of the GPU Shaders. i.e. Rather than making more GPU vertex shaders, or more complex GPU vertex shaders, we'll just edit the data directly from the SPU before the GPU gets it. This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective.

3. Run parts of the complete vertex shader code at different rates. An (SPU Vertex Shader, or Pre-Vertex Shader) does not necessarily have to run in lock-stop with the (GPU Vertex Shader). It could run at half-rate or lower, depending on the data and the need.

We're still experimenting with different approaches and places to do this, but we've had good success so far. For example, we used this idea in RCF to handle UV animations - textures weren't animated on the GPU, the UVs were animated before the stream got to the (GPU Vertex Shader) so it could use the same GPU shaders as any stream that did not have UV animation.

Mike.

YOu knwo, in some ways, consoles are WAY more interesting to program than PCs. You have a fixed system which you can simply strive to abuse to no end. On Pcs this would lead to incompotibilities, but on consoles... hell yeah

 

[Kinan]

You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.

Thanks for clarification. You didnt say in slides what exactly was done async, so I assumed its similar to what kz2 or stalker doing.

And yea, welcome to this mad place.

 

[BruceWayneIII]

Oops, did they remove F13 from the bluetooth keyboard in addition to the number pad? I wasn't aware, sorry.

EDIT: Somebody said SHIFT+F1 = F13, but I don't know if that's on the OS side or the keyboard side. Give it a test in R1 multiplayer sometime.

Tried it today, but nope. No screen shot abilities in R1 with a slim Apple bluetooth keyboard :-( Thanks for trying to help anyway.

YOu knwo, in some ways, consoles are WAY more interesting to program than PCs. You have a fixed system which you can simply strive to abuse to no end. On Pcs this would lead to incompotibilities, but on consoles... hell yeah

Yeah, just like those magic days with the C64 or the Amiga



Mike Acton: great post about SPU usage. A very big welcome to GAF

 

[Nooreo]

60 fps on R:fom2 = Nooreo Death

 

[Wollan]

Basch/BruceLeeRoy:

'War is coming' is the tag Killzone uses and has been using since KZ1.

 

[FirewalkR]

Basch/BruceLeeRoy:

'War is coming' is the tag Killzone uses and has been using since KZ1.

Which now means War is coming to the PS3... twice!!!

 

[Basch]

Basch/BruceLeeRoy:

'War is coming' is the tag Killzone uses and has been using since KZ1.

Dammit. Well, steal it Insomniac. Guerilla could use a different tag. This has a whole lot more meaning for Resistance. Or they could both use it. No complaints then, right?

 

[Leidenfrost]

------------------------------

And plaster some billboards:

War is Coming

11.25.08

------------------------------

You can get some insane hype going that way.

I think simplicity is key in billboard advertising.

My suggestion for a billboard tagline (using a temp iconic image stolen from R1):

plaster those up. Rotate the slogan every once in a while.

 

[nib95]

It means (in some cases) we've added a stage to the typical shader pipeline.

Instead of:
(Vertex Stream) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

We can also do:
(Vertex Stream) -> (SPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

So that some things that might normally be done in the GPU vertex shader can be "lifted" to the SPUs. Some of the benefits to doing this:

1. Transfer some of the load from the GPU to the SPUs.

2. Minimize complexity of the GPU Shaders. i.e. Rather than making more GPU vertex shaders, or more complex GPU vertex shaders, we'll just edit the data directly from the SPU before the GPU gets it. This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective.

3. Run parts of the complete vertex shader code at different rates. An (SPU Vertex Shader, or Pre-Vertex Shader) does not necessarily have to run in lock-stop with the (GPU Vertex Shader). It could run at half-rate or lower, depending on the data and the need.

We're still experimenting with different approaches and places to do this, but we've had good success so far. For example, we used this idea in RCF to handle UV animations - textures weren't animated on the GPU, the UVs were animated before the stream got to the (GPU Vertex Shader) so it could use the same GPU shaders as any stream that did not have UV animation.

Mike.

Thanks for this really insightful post.

 

[TTP]

Thanks for this really insightful post.

Now tell me you understood more than 3% of it :lol

 

[wowfactor]

Mike Acton, you are the man.

Can you do smoke in SPUs with deferrered shader? I think that would be awesome because you would release a huge bandwidth consumption for the RSX. You don't need immediate reactions from smoke. I think the only problem with it is blending: SPUs do their graphic things and RSX does its own thing.

 

[The Jer]

Now tell me you understood more than 3% of it :lol

:lol

that's kind of how I feel. you know in Peanuts, when the parents talk and all Charlie Brown hears is "blah blah blah".... ya.... that's how I feel...

(not because I'm not interested, but because I don't know what's going on).

Basically, all I gathered was that jobs normally done by one element (the GPU) are now being done (or partially done), by another element (the SPUs). And thus, there is less of a load on the first element (the GPU). So, all the elements as a whole are being used more efficiently. I suppose this is useful because it allows the elements as a whole to work on other tasks they wouldn't normally be able to work on and because it allows element one (the GPU) to work on more and other tasks that element one is the best suited to work on. Also, the new element handling the original process(es) can work at different rates, allowing the total system to function even more efficiently. But, that's about the extent of what I could gather from the post. Heck I don't even know "UV animation" means.

But, I still enjoy reading the posts and taking from them what I can.
And I'm sure those who are more knowledgeable about game development and this kind of material really appreciate it.

 

[Pistolero]

You definitely didn't understand more than 3% of it ! :lol
You are not alone...

 

[Kagari]

Mind has been blown.

 

[ChryZ]

In a nutshell, the symbiosis of Cell and RSX is a reality now and it's going to be a differentiating factor for visuals. RSX is a decent GPU, but with a little help from the SPUs it should be able to go beyond its capabilities. 5th/6th gen PS3 software will be amazing, mark my word!

 

[llTll]

i didnt understand shit

 

[Ashhong]

nice attempt laiden, but that looks pretty lame lol

 

[Peter303]

:lol

that's kind of how I feel. you know in Peanuts, when the parents talk and all Charlie Brown hears is "blah blah blah".... ya.... that's how I feel...

(not because I'm not interested, but because I don't know what's going on).

Basically, all I gathered was that jobs normally done by one element (the GPU) are now being done (or partially done), by another element (the SPUs). And thus, there is less of a load on the first element (the GPU). So, all the elements as a whole are being used more efficiently. I suppose this is useful because it allows the elements as a whole to work on other tasks they wouldn't normally be able to work on and because it allows element one (the GPU) to work on more and other tasks that element one is the best suited to work on. Also, the new element handling the original process(es) can work at different rates, allowing the total system to function even more efficiently. But, that's about the extent of what I could gather from the post. Heck I don't even know "UV animation" means.

But, I still enjoy reading the posts and taking from them what I can.
And I'm sure those who are more knowledgeable about game development and this kind of material really appreciate it.

Think of it like this:

The <vertex stream> is a big pile of dirty plates that the <gpu vertex shader> is washing and then passing off to the <fragment shader> for drying. The problem is that the plates are covered in dried on food and other scraps that need scraping off before they can be washed. The poor <gpu vertex shader> is taking ages to do this before he can wash them meaning the <fragment shader> is waiting around for plates to dry. Along come the <spu vertex shader> (possibly an extra seven pairs of hands) and they do all the scraping and getting rid of food scraps instead. They can do this quicker than <gpu vertex shader> meaning that all <gpu vertex shader> has to do now is washing and he can get through the pile a lot faster, meaning that <gpu fragment shader> gets more plates to dry.

yeah, it's just like washing up :lol

 

[Basch]

Think of it like this:

The <vertex stream> is a big pile of dirty plates that the <gpu vertex shader> is washing and then passing off to the <fragment shader> for drying. The problem is that the plates are covered in dried on food and other scraps that need scraping off before they can be washed. The poor <gpu vertex shader> is taking ages to do this before he can wash them meaning the <fragment shader> is waiting around for plates to dry. Along come the <spu vertex shader> (possibly an extra seven pairs of hands) and they do all the scraping and getting rid of food scraps instead. They can do this quicker than <gpu vertex shader> meaning that all <gpu vertex shader> has to do now is washing and he can get through the pile a lot faster, meaning that <gpu fragment shader> gets more plates to dry.

yeah, it's just like washing up :lol

You know. That actually made sense. And was what I was originally thinking but now clearer than ever. Thanks. So yeah. Glad Insomniac is pushing the technology. Effeciency is always key.

By the way, I found out that IE8 had its Beta release. So I downloaded it. Thought I would try it out and get a sneak peak at what is to come. But I think I must have done something wrong. Everything looks so God damn ugly. What have I done to my browser. :lol Its annoying just looking at these posts.

What's up with all the borders? Hideous.

EDIT: Yuck. I made it worse by posting that picture. :lol Oh noes. Where did my pop up menu go? Now I can't click a user's name and get that nice useful pop up menu.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Basch/BruceLeeRoy:

'War is coming' is the tag Killzone uses and has been using since KZ1.

Ahhhh and here I thought I was so brilliant.

 

[Basch]

Ahhhh and here I thought I was so brilliant.

Insomniac should steal it anyways. Resistance 2 could sport it better.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Insomniac should steal it anyways. Resistance 2 could sport it better.

Ha true true.
Is the podcast supposed to be in the afternoon today?

 

[Basch]

Ha true true.
Is the podcast supposed to be in the afternoon today?

Goes up in about two hours and fifteen minutes: my guess. I think they release it at noon Pacific Time.

 

[KZObsessed]

I thought I'd post Steven Totilo's Ted Price interview posted by gofreak here as the other thread is filled with people crying over Ratchet selling a million (congrats to js and insom by the way):

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/category/ps3/

It's in 3 parts, most of it is just general stuff but Mr. Price mentions a possibility of Resistance PSP which a member of Insomniac hinted a while a go about on Podcast Beyond.

Also:

Multiplayer: A lot of people were thinking “Killzone 2&#8243; was going to be the big Sony FPS for the end of ‘08. This does too. So is this going to be a head-to-head thing? Have you guys gotten any calls from guys in Amsterdam [where the game is being made]?

Price: Actually, we’re close to those guys. Our engine director was just over at Guerilla taking a tour. And we’ve had them in our offices. There’s definitely a friendship between the two studios. And we are both interested in making sure there’s a separation between the games in terms of theme and gameplay. Where they’re both released in relation to each other, I don’t know. That’s up to Sony marketing. What’s cool is that we both feel that same competitive spirit. We’re pushing each other, and that’s fine. It’s a good-natured competitiveness.

Multiplayer: Did that “Killzone 2&#8243; trailer a couple of years ago fire you up back then?

Price: Yeah, and it was awesome. It was last E3, and when our guys saw it running for real, they thought, “Wow they just raised the bar and we all gotta make sure we can do the same.”

It's really cool to see development teams working together or at least checking out each others stuff.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Think of it like this:

The <vertex stream> is a big pile of dirty plates that the <gpu vertex shader> is washing and then passing off to the <fragment shader> for drying. The problem is that the plates are covered in dried on food and other scraps that need scraping off before they can be washed. The poor <gpu vertex shader> is taking ages to do this before he can wash them meaning the <fragment shader> is waiting around for plates to dry. Along come the <spu vertex shader> (possibly an extra seven pairs of hands) and they do all the scraping and getting rid of food scraps instead. They can do this quicker than <gpu vertex shader> meaning that all <gpu vertex shader> has to do now is washing and he can get through the pile a lot faster, meaning that <gpu fragment shader> gets more plates to dry.

yeah, it's just like washing up :lol

Great post!

Thats the second analogy i've read on gaf today that's enabled my tiny little mind to understand.

Thanks peter, thanks gaf.

 

[Basch]

I thought I'd post Gofreaks Ted Price interview here as the other thread is filled with people crying over Ratchet selling a million (congrats to js and insom by the way):

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/category/ps3/

It's in 3 parts, most of it is just general stuff but Mr. Price mentions a possibility of Resistance PSP which a member of Insomniac hinted a while a go about on Podcast Beyond.

Also:



It's really cool to see development teams working together or at least checking out each others stuff.

gofreak did that? Needs to work on his editing skills. But it was a really good interview. Lots of information. And extremely well organized. Excellent job.

Sounds like they're in pretty deep with the multiplayer modes. Exciting. I can't wait. They need to reveal some new stuff though. We know they're hiding stuff from us and they haven't revealed it/them yet. I want it all. Spill. You can't keep us in the dark forever. E3 is going to be such a long wait.

 

[KZObsessed]

gofreak did that?

oops sorry, Steven Totilo did the interview, but gofreak made the thread. Thought it was his interview, so tired...

In regards to Resistance PSP, Im glad he mentioned Killzone Liberation as as soon as the Resistance PSP rumours popped up a while a go, I thought "please use Killzone Lib engine thank you."

A Resistance game in that style would be so much fun.

 

[Leidenfrost]

nice attempt laiden, but that looks pretty lame lol

*shrug* the missus is the professional print designer, not me.

I still like my tagline, hard to beat Churchill.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I thought I'd post Steven Tolio's Ted Price interview posted by gofreak here as the other thread is filled with people crying over Ratchet selling a million (congrats to js and insom by the way):

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/category/ps3/

It's in 3 parts, most of it is just general stuff but Mr. Price mentions a possibility of Resistance PSP which a member of Insomniac hinted a while a go about on Podcast Beyond.

Also:



It's really cool to see development teams working together or at least checking out each others stuff.

Wow cool stuff man thanks for the post

 

[Leidenfrost]

I thought I'd post Steven Totilo's Ted Price interview posted by gofreak here as the other thread is filled with people crying over Ratchet selling a million (congrats to js and insom by the way)

Very interesting. I'm especially gratified to see that Ted is striking a healthy balance between being competitive and complimentary to Zillzone 2. They're simply different types of games and a keeping up with the Joneses' bullet list mentality would be detrimental to both.

It will be very interesting to see how Sony's marketing strategy delineates the two titles to the consumer.

 

[Elbrain]

The podcast is going up today right and if so What is the ETA JStevenson?

 

[gbovo]

The podcast is going up today right and if so What is the ETA JStevenson?

it's up! Downloading now!

 

[picsou]

jv.com have some videos from Resistance 2

http://www.jeuxvideo.com/etajvbis.htm
:lol

sorry if old

 

[Doc Evils]

Listening to the Full moon show.

Hamonix president is surprise guest .

Brian from EGM is also confirmed as the new community manager for Insomniac.

 

[FirewalkR]

jv.com have some videos from Resistance 2

http://www.jeuxvideo.com/etajvbis.htm
:lol

sorry if old

Not exactly "old", it's just the videos from the mo-cap sessions that Insomniac released yesterday with the podcast, you can get the link to the originals here:
http://www.insomniacgames.com/podcast/podcast.php

 

[polyh3dron]

60 fps on R:fom2 = Nooreo Death

Sorry but I don't have time to read 50 pages of the thread: Is it going to run at 60FPS or not??

 

[Wollan]

30fps

 

[Rapping Granny]

So can someone tell me what happened to the trailer that was suppose to hit before Febuary ends?

 

[FirewalkR]

So can someone tell me what happened to the trailer that was suppose to hit before Febuary ends?

Jstevenson has the only copy in existence stored in a blu-ray (what else!). He cuddles it every night when he gets to bed, then puts it under the pillow and dreams of chimera.

 

[Ceb]

Sorry but I don't have time to read 50 pages of the thread: Is it going to run at 60FPS or not??

30fps

Just have to clarify for your sake that this is just Wollan jumping to conclusions as usual. Nothing's been confirmed regarding the framerate so far. It is a good assumption to say that it'll run at 30fps though, but once again, just an assumption.

 

[polyh3dron]

I just applied for a QA position over @ Insomniac.. I usually work in post production on TV shows but with the SAG strike coming up and things just starting up after the WGA strike I figured it'd be a cool time to try something else...

 

[FirewalkR]

I just applied for a QA position over @ Insomniac.. I usually work in post production on TV shows but with the SAG strike coming up and things just starting up after the WGA strike I figured it'd be a cool time to try something else...

Awesome, good luck

 

[andycapps]

I just applied for a QA position over @ Insomniac.. I usually work in post production on TV shows but with the SAG strike coming up and things just starting up after the WGA strike I figured it'd be a cool time to try something else...

I'm tired of those people ruining my TV shows. Still pissed about The Office and 24 being canceled this year. Good luck to you though at Insomniac if you get the job.

 

[JimiNutz]

Don't know if it's been posted yet but there's a new preview at CVG.com courtesy of PSW mag

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=184388

Edit: Some cool quotes

The game is set in a past where World War II never happened, since mankind had been too busy dealing with aliens to beat on each other. Without Hitler's rise to power there was no Union-free country for an America ravaged by the great depression to invest in either. Consequently, the Fifties' USA that Hale returns to isn't the opulent, future-looking postcard from history you'd expect, but rather one that has never recovered from financial ruin.

The most obvious difference is scale. America is massive and consequently so are the battlefields found here. The invasion is of an unprecedented scale and you, as Hale, will always be battling against seemingly insurmountable odds including Chimeran bosses that can stand 150 feet tall as they smash their way through urban decay and across sprawling planes.
The Sentinels have developed immunity to the alien virus, but they've still got a fight on their hands on a scale that the PS3 has never seen. There are more enemies on screen, a greater variety of enemies and even boss fights to break up the run-and-gun gameplay. It's going to be fantastic.

Co-op mode will provide the same, if not more, play time than the main game.

You'll also get to fight online using your own customised combatant that's based on one of the three unit class templates. The heaviest unit comes armed with a chaingun that can rip its way through enemies at a ferocious rate, while each kill charges up a deployable shield that can be set up in front of you and more importantly, your team.

The special-ops soldier is a dab hand with a modified version of the original game's Bullseye rifle that now comes equipped with extra zoom modes making for even more accuracy backed by more power, but it's the medic that offers the most interesting inclusion.

Usually in class-based online shooters, the player who chooses to perform medical duties spends most of their game time being shouted at by other players who bitch and bawl that medics aren't there immediately on-site to patch up their wounds. Resistance 2's medics aren't to be stuck wiping the bloody brows of reckless gamers, but instead can take a more pro-active role thanks to the Medicator gun.

This weapon can fire deadly red shots at enemies with each kill charging up a meter. Aim the same weapon at a friendly unit and when you pull the trigger, you'll automatically shoot a healing balm of blue energy at them and so be able to fix their broken bodies without having to be danger.

Resistance 2's levels will feature set geography, like the placements of buildings and topological detail, but will also include a randomising element that means that each time you play through, you'll find new areas of cover and therefore new strategies that need to be developed to garner success. You won't be able to read a 'go here and shoot him' walkthrough for the game because it just wouldn't work.

Enemies will display new behaviour patterns that alter depending on how near they are to the player. At range, they won't jostle about randomly but will dive for cover. When they get in close, this AI will shift to close-range mode, enabling them to work on you with new tricks that are dependant on how much they view you as a threat.

Don't know if any of its new news to any of you guys but I hadn't heard some of the finer details (such as how the classes work, and that America is going to still be ravaged by Economic Depression.)

 

[Firewire]

Don't know if it's been posted yet but there's a new preview at CVG.com courtesy of PSW mag

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=184388

Read it this morning, nothing really new in it at all.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Don't know if it's been posted yet but there's a new preview at CVG.com courtesy of PSW mag

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=184388

Nothing new. Not even any original or insightfull impressions. I'd say it looks as though they didn't play the game at all, just read the Game Informer reveal and regurgitated.

 

[FirewalkR]

Nevertheless here's a quick summary:

"Insomniac delivers all kinds of awesome and hands all sorts of pwnage in every direction."

You can even cut it down further just to the first two words.

 

[Pacman2k]

I just applied for a QA position over @ Insomniac.. I usually work in post production on TV shows but with the SAG strike coming up and things just starting up after the WGA strike I figured it'd be a cool time to try something else...

Hm... which one are you?

I did a phone interview with someone yesterday who had some TV industry experience...