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RESISTANCE 2 REVEALED! 60man MP, 8p Co-op, 2 campaigns, etc HOLY $#!t

P

Pimpwerx

Member
Kinan said:
Relevant slides for the lazy:

http://i27.tinypic.com/zxp2yw.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/1q4oiq.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/dry4i.jpg

They have come a long way already.
Click to expand...
The color change on the PPU in the last two slides is most telling. Their PPU code got a lot more flexible. Probably b/c it's being used more as a scheduler now, so processes are running largely on the SPUs. I'd love to see a third slide with R&C's Cell usage. That graphics engine seems to share a lot with Resistance's.

That said, I wonder what a 1/60th of a second "lag" is going to look like to the eye. I mean, it's gotta be really hard to see. But the eye picks up on the smallest changes. Is this gonna be the new scapegoat for motion-sickness? ;) PEACE.
 
F

filopilo

Member
Kinan said:
Biggest news is the use of deferred rendering in R2, which means that we may expect KZ2 quality lighting in the sequel. Cant wait for the first footage.
Click to expand...

No.Kz2 is fully deferred , in R2 only some effects are deferred , lighting isn't.In fact most engine already have or will have deffered parts to some extent.
 
K

Kinan

Member
Kittonwy said:
In layman's terms please.
gladtomeetya.gif
Click to expand...


See that big orange boxes on RFOM1 slides? See how they are gone for RFOM2? Thats time when SPUs needed to wait for PPU to do any work. Its now practically gone, so SPU and PPU ttasks are running simultaneously, not wasting precious cycle time. 60fps inc? :)
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
JS,

How about a preview on tomorrow's podcast?

Any thoughts about making it weekly? 2 and sometimes 3 weeks is just too long to wait. :(
 
L

Leidenfrost

Member
BruceWayneIII said:
Ehm, you should read my post he referred to - about the tiny Apple bluetooth keyboard without a 'print screen' key...:D
Click to expand...

Oops, did they remove F13 from the bluetooth keyboard in addition to the number pad? I wasn't aware, sorry.

EDIT: Somebody said SHIFT+F1 = F13, but I don't know if that's on the OS side or the keyboard side. Give it a test in R1 multiplayer sometime.
 
M

Mike Acton

Member
Pimpwerx said:
That said, I wonder what a 1/60th of a second "lag" is going to look like to the eye. I mean, it's gotta be really hard to see. But the eye picks up on the smallest changes.
Click to expand...

This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"

Kinan said:
Biggest news is the use of deferred rendering in R2, which means that we may expect KZ2 quality lighting in the sequel. Cant wait for the first footage.
Click to expand...

You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
 
K

Kittonwy

Banned
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"



You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
Click to expand...

Welcome Mike Action!!!111!!!
angry.gif
 
B

Basch

Member
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"



You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
Click to expand...

8O Welcome, Mike Acton. How many more of you are there? Lurking and stuff. Insomniac love GAF? :D
 
L

Leidenfrost

Member
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.
Click to expand...

Welcome to NeoGAF, Mr. Acton. I look forward to more of your insightful comments.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"



You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
Click to expand...

OK! WHO IS THIS STUPID JUNIOR! GET HIM OUTTA HERE!

HI MIKE ACTION AND WELCOME TO GAF, YOU SILLY LURKER! :p
 
B

Basch

Member
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"



You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
Click to expand...

So... in other words, calculations go faster than they can be displayed. By just one frame? Meaning I'll miss more in the blink of an eye than I could with a 1/60th delay per second. Wait. Does this confirm Resistance 2 will run at 60 fps. You crazy people you. Already? Makes me think what the game might look like when everything is said and done.

One more thing. You guys should use a tagline for the game: "War is Coming." BruceLeeRoy came up with it. But I think its amazing. Smacks 'ya full of epicness. Gears of War did something similar with Emergence Day. You guys should use this.

------------------------------

Cheesy Narrator Voice for Commercial:

"Before night's end, we will have experienced the greatest tragedy known to man..."

We will lose this fight."

*Chimera coming out of shadows. First only a few. Then dozens upon dozens of them. Camera pans and shows Hale alone. Surrounded. Awesome gameplay footage with epic music here*

"War is coming."

*Fades to black screen. American flag rises up: destroyed (preforated with holes and dangling in ribbons). Resistance 2 logo appears. Fade away. Slogan appears: "War is Coming". Followed by release date: 11.25.08 (or whatever it is).*

------------------------------

And plaster some billboards:

War is Coming

11.25.08

------------------------------

You can get some insane hype going that way. :D
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
tanod said:
JS,

How about a preview on tomorrow's podcast?

Any thoughts about making it weekly? 2 and sometimes 3 weeks is just too long to wait. :(
Click to expand...

Let's see... I'd describe the show as rock-tastic. From our Mystery Guest to our I Want Your Job interview, there's a definite tilt towards rocking out.

There's some Resistance 2 updates - including our favorite Brit (not Rolf) stopping by to talk about mo-cap - and make my life editing hell as I have to constantly edit out his references to a creature we haven't announced yet.

Oh, and Rolf reminisces about his Phil Harrison memories, and I make fun of Major Nelson playing Taps for HD-DVD.

and finally, we announce that we will be expanding the podcast to a fourth chair in April. Who will be the new person be? Tune in tomorrow.
 
F

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
If this runs 60FPS... let's just say I have played enough online Urban Terror recently to REALLY apreciate 60FPS.

So PLEASE, it would be awesome.
 
T

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Basch said:
So... in other words, calculations go faster than they can be displayed. By just one frame? Meaning I'll miss more in the blink of an eye than I could with a 1/60th delay per second. Wait. Does this confirm Resistance 2 will run at 60 fps. You crazy people you. Already? Makes me think what the game might look like when everything is said and done.

One more thing. You guys should use a tagline for the game: "War is Coming." BruceLeeRoy came up with it. But I think its amazing. Smacks 'ya full of epicness. Gears of War did something similar with Emergence Day. You guys should use this.

------------------------------

Cheesy Narrator Voice for Commercial:

"Before night's end, we will have experienced the greatest tragedy known to man..."

We will lose this fight."

*Chimera coming out of shadows. First only a few. Then dozens upon dozens of them. Camera pans and shows Hale alone. Surrounded. Awesome gameplay footage with epic music here*

"War is coming."

*Fades to black screen. American flag rises up: destroyed (preforated with holes and dangling in ribbons). Resistance 2 logo appears. Fade away. Slogan appears: "War is Coming". Followed by release date 11.25.08 (or whatever it is).*

------------------------------

And plaster some billboards:

War is Coming

11.25.08

------------------------------

You can get some insane hype going that way. :D
Click to expand...


I have a better one.

A lone Chimera is slaughtering a bunch of US soldiers.
Chimera is about to kill one last soldier but...
...Hale comes out. Sticks a missle launcher into the Chimera's ass.
Close up on Chimera face going "wtf?", his 6 eyes all ponting to different directions.
BAM!
Pieces of Chimera fall from the sky.
Survived US soldier is quite amazed and asks Hale: "Who... who are you?".
Close up on Hale face. His golden eyes shining.
Dramatic pause.
Hale: "You can call me Bellerophon"

I'm just joking
 
D

Doc Evils

Member
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"



You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
Click to expand...


Welcome to gaf. :D
 
B

Basch

Member
jstevenson said:
Let's see... I'd describe the show as rock-tastic. From our Mystery Guest to our I Want Your Job interview, there's a definite tilt towards rocking out.

There's some Resistance 2 updates - including our favorite Brit (not Rolf) stopping by to talk about mo-cap - and make my life editing hell as I have to constantly edit out his references to a creature we haven't announced yet.

Oh, and Rolf reminisces about his Phil Harrison memories, and I make fun of Major Nelson playing Taps for HD-DVD.

and finally, we announce that we will be expanding the podcast to a fourth chair in April. Who will be the new person be? Tune in tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Permanently? Because Ted Price would be cool too. But with him being busy and all. The Brit do mo-cap work for Heavenly Sword? Sounds like a nice episode. Thanks for the preview. Will check this out tomorrow.

You know, you could miss one tiny edit. ;)
 
S

Shinblade

Banned
jstevenson said:
Let's see... I'd describe the show as rock-tastic. From our Mystery Guest to our I Want Your Job interview, there's a definite tilt towards rocking out.

There's some Resistance 2 updates - including our favorite Brit (not Rolf) stopping by to talk about mo-cap - and make my life editing hell as I have to constantly edit out his references to a creature we haven't announced yet.

Oh, and Rolf reminisces about his Phil Harrison memories, and I make fun of Major Nelson playing Taps for HD-DVD.

and finally, we announce that we will be expanding the podcast to a fourth chair in April. Who will be the new person be? Tune in tomorrow.
Click to expand...



YAY...

I had the Fap-engine already greased up for the motorstorm 2 video... Now I can put it to good use tomorrow.

JS - please don't let me, my fapping, or my fap engine down.

Thank you.
 
B

Basch

Member
TTP said:
I have a better one.

A lone Chimera is slaughtering a bunch of US soldiers.
Chimera is about to kill one last soldier but...
...Hale comes out. Sticks a missle launcher into the Chimera's ass.
Close up on Chimera face going "wtf?", his 6 eyes all ponting to different directions.
BAM!
Pieces of Chimera fall from the sky.
Survived US soldier is quite amazed and asks Hale: "Who... who are you?".
Close up on Hale face. His golden eyes shining.
Dramatic pause.
Hale: "You can call me Bellerophon"

I'm just joking
Click to expand...

Damn you. I'm in class. You almost made me burst out laughing. Had to read the dang thing in two parts. Ten minutes difference. :lol
 
Hesemonni

Hesemonni

Banned
FoxSpirit said:
If this runs 60FPS... let's just say I have played enough online Urban Terror recently to REALLY apreciate 60FPS.

So PLEASE, it would be awesome.
Click to expand...
It won't. 30 FPS all the way.
 
N

NinjaFridge

Unconfirmed Member
jstevenson said:
Let's see... I'd describe the show as rock-tastic. From our Mystery Guest to our I Want Your Job interview, there's a definite tilt towards rocking out.

There's some Resistance 2 updates - including our favorite Brit (not Rolf) stopping by to talk about mo-cap - and make my life editing hell as I have to constantly edit out his references to a creature we haven't announced yet.

Oh, and Rolf reminisces about his Phil Harrison memories, and I make fun of Major Nelson playing Taps for HD-DVD.

and finally, we announce that we will be expanding the podcast to a fourth chair in April. Who will be the new person be? Tune in tomorrow.
Click to expand...


Sounds great. Will you be going back to bi-weekly because i need my fix and its been too long
 
F

FirewalkR

Member
Why is Mike ACTION still a junior? And Insomniacs, being the GODS that they are, are entitled to insta-tagging! Suggestions are welcome!!
 
E

Elbrain

Suckin' dicks since '66
jstevenson said:
Let's see... I'd describe the show as rock-tastic. From our Mystery Guest to our I Want Your Job interview, there's a definite tilt towards rocking out.

There's some Resistance 2 updates - including our favorite Brit (not Rolf) stopping by to talk about mo-cap - and make my life editing hell as I have to constantly edit out his references to a creature we haven't announced yet.

Oh, and Rolf reminisces about his Phil Harrison memories, and I make fun of Major Nelson playing Taps for HD-DVD.

and finally, we announce that we will be expanding the podcast to a fourth chair in April. Who will be the new person be? Tune in tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Damn the show is going to rock then! Can't wait.
 
W

wolforce

Member
Mike Acton said:
This is an evolution of the model we used for RCF and I'm pretty sure it was totally unnoticed there, as I'd expect. There's no visible "lag". For effects that one would expect to be "in sync" and on the same frame as something else (e.g. attached to a moving part), they'd likely be classified as more the "immediate" type.

"Immediate" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later in the frame" (so it's still technically "deferred", just not by a huge amount)

"Deferred" in this context means "the work will be done somewhere later than that, probably the next frame"



You can not infer "deferred rendering" a la Killzone2 from this use of the word "deferred", as filopilo pointed out. It just means "done later" - and it's used everywhere as part of normal asynchronous design. In this sense we have deferred updates for collision, animation, physics, effects, water and a ton of other things.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but what means this: "SPU Shaders / ° Also experimenting with pre-vertex shaders on the SPUs."
 
B

Basch

Member
Just looked at the guy's profile. It seems he joined October 16, last year. This be his first post. Ever. Maybe come E3. He'll post once more. But this time, he'll give us a release date and a trailer. :lol Whoa. What a coincidence. Joined the same day I did. He should hang more. We can't just have one post.
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
Basch said:
Just looked at the guy's profile. It seems he joined October 16. This be his first post. Ever. Maybe come E3. He'll post once more. But this time, he'll give us a release date and a trailer. :lol Whoa. What a coincidence. Joined the same day I did. He should hang more. We can't just have one post.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had to sell part of my soul to get his account approved by the mods finally :lol :lol
 
B

BeeDog

Member
So what is this "deferred rendering" stuff actually, and in what ways can it improve on graphics? I don't get it at all.
 
M

Mike Acton

Member
wolforce said:
Thanks, but what means this: "SPU Shaders / ° Also experimenting with pre-vertex shaders on the SPUs."
Click to expand...

It means (in some cases) we've added a stage to the typical shader pipeline.

Instead of:
(Vertex Stream) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

We can also do:
(Vertex Stream) -> (SPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

So that some things that might normally be done in the GPU vertex shader can be "lifted" to the SPUs. Some of the benefits to doing this:

1. Transfer some of the load from the GPU to the SPUs.

2. Minimize complexity of the GPU Shaders. i.e. Rather than making more GPU vertex shaders, or more complex GPU vertex shaders, we'll just edit the data directly from the SPU before the GPU gets it. This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective.

3. Run parts of the complete vertex shader code at different rates. An (SPU Vertex Shader, or Pre-Vertex Shader) does not necessarily have to run in lock-stop with the (GPU Vertex Shader). It could run at half-rate or lower, depending on the data and the need.

We're still experimenting with different approaches and places to do this, but we've had good success so far. For example, we used this idea in RCF to handle UV animations - textures weren't animated on the GPU, the UVs were animated before the stream got to the (GPU Vertex Shader) so it could use the same GPU shaders as any stream that did not have UV animation.

Mike.
 
Nizz

Nizz

Member
Hesemonni said:
It won't. 30 FPS all the way.
Click to expand...
A locked 30 frames per second. :D Still surprises me how smooth running a first gen game Resistance was. Can't wait to see what they pull off in R2...
 
W

wolforce

Member
Mike Acton said:
It means (in some cases) we've added a stage to the typical shader pipeline.

Instead of:
(Vertex Stream) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

We can also do:
(Vertex Stream) -> (SPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

So that some things that might normally be done in the GPU vertex shader can be "lifted" to the SPUs. Some of the benefits to doing this:

1. Transfer some of the load from the GPU to the SPUs.

2. Minimize complexity of the GPU Shaders. i.e. Rather than making more GPU vertex shaders, or more complex GPU vertex shaders, we'll just edit the data directly from the SPU before the GPU gets it. This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective.

3. Run parts of the complete vertex shader code at different rates. An (SPU Vertex Shader, or Pre-Vertex Shader) does not necessarily have to run in lock-stop with the (GPU Vertex Shader). It could run at half-rate or lower, depending on the data and the need.

We're still experimenting with different approaches and places to do this, but we've had good success so far. For example, we used this idea in RCF to handle UV animations - textures weren't animated on the GPU, the UVs were animated before the stream got to the (GPU Vertex Shader) so it could use the same GPU shaders as any stream that did not have UV animation.

Mike.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, thanks MIKE.
 
B

Basch

Member
Mike Acton said:
It means (in some cases) we've added a stage to the typical shader pipeline.

Instead of:
(Vertex Stream) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

We can also do:
(Vertex Stream) -> (SPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

So that some things that might normally be done in the GPU vertex shader can be "lifted" to the SPUs. Some of the benefits to doing this:

1. Transfer some of the load from the GPU to the SPUs.

2. Minimize complexity of the GPU Shaders. i.e. Rather than making more GPU vertex shaders, or more complex GPU vertex shaders, we'll just edit the data directly from the SPU before the GPU gets it. This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective.

3. Run parts of the complete vertex shader code at different rates. An (SPU Vertex Shader, or Pre-Vertex Shader) does not necessarily have to run in lock-stop with the (GPU Vertex Shader). It could run at half-rate or lower, depending on the data and the need.

We're still experimenting with different approaches and places to do this, but we've had good success so far. For example, we used this idea in RCF to handle UV animations - textures weren't animated on the GPU, the UVs were animated before the stream got to the (GPU Vertex Shader) so it could use the same GPU shaders as any stream that did not have UV animation.

Mike.
Click to expand...

So... animation/textures will be more efficient? I have no idea what you're talking about, but it must mean good things. ;)
 
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