• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Returning member after a long absence, how would you rate the overall health of this forum?

Harksteed

Banned
Seems like it's slowly but surely getting more activity as time goes on so in that sense it's pretty healthy. Obviously not as good as before the split, but still.

In terms of quality I think it's slipping a bit (in OT). Right after the split there was a reasonable amount of right and left wing people discussing things, but I definitely feel like it's moving right considerably at this point. That's not neccesarily a bad thing, but there's also a significant amount of threads and posts that are posted with no intent of having a conversation but just want to shit on people or 'the other side'. The increase in 4chan, /pol/ and t_d rhetoric and conspiracy theories is also concerning. Personally if I were part of moderation I would nip that in the bud more, but the current team seems to want to keep it fairly hand-offs.
 
Last edited:

Papa

Banned
Seems like it's slowly but surely getting more activity as time goes on so in that sense it's pretty healthy. Obviously not as good as before the split, but still.

In terms of quality I think it's slipping a bit (in OT). Right after the split there was a reasonable amount of right and left wing people discussing things, but I definitely feel like it's moving right considerably at this point. That's not neccesarily a bad thing, but there's also a significant amount of threads and posts that are posted with no intent of having a conversation but just want to shit on people or 'the other side'. The increase in 4chan, /pol/ and t_d rhetoric and conspiracy theories is also concerning. Personally if I were part of moderation I would nip that in the bud more, but the current team seems to want to keep it fairly hand-offs.

You know two of the main proponents of what you’re describing are currently banned yeah?
 

138

Banned
I largely lurk here, even though I've been registered for the last eight years or so. In the last few years prior to the ResetERA split, I barely posted because I didn't want to lose my account. I have an RE account, but I barely post on it for the same reason.

And, it's not because I want to spew alt-right talking points, or I'm obsessed with telling people about group X that I despise. Politically, I'd define myself as 'centre-left with a desire to do the best by other people'. That doesn't seem to be enough for a place like ResetERA, or for pre-October 2017 NeoGAF, and so I largely refrained from posting or commenting. It reminds me a lot of Something Awful, a forum that I really loved, until the insane bannings got out of control, and people would lose their account for insane reasons. In the case of Something Awful, I suspect that the motivation was to force people to buy new accounts for ten dollars each, but the result was the same.

NeoGAF is obviously a far quieter forum now. I don't think that's a controversial statement. That said, I think that it is a much better forum. ResetERA gets the eyes and the clicks, but it is a hysterial, deeply bizarre place moderated by loony left wing autocrats. I don't like them, I don't like their politics, I don't like the way they treat people, and I think that their behaviour is actually deeply toxic, and reinforces the very attitudes that won 2016 for Trump. Anyone claiming that GAF is now a hive of alt-righters is absolutely deluding themselves. What it has become is simply an environment where a punitive system which responds to political wrongthink does not exist, and for many users, that seems to be something that they're just not used to. Seeing political opinions that they disagree with being punished through bans and moderation is what they want, and what they expect. When that doesn't happen, they immediately start screaming about the rise of Nazism in their forums.

Maybe my feeling is that GAF is in a transitional period. It is quieter, still recovering from the ResetERA split, but the broader direction that it is going in is a really unique and positive one, and I've been enjoying it a lot more.


This is a fantastic post. Thank for you stating how I feel, almost exactly.

I'm going to hopefully be posting more on GAF, and I have no problem getting into intelligent discussion/arguments with those that disagree with my left-leaning politics or views on life. I'm glad for the opportunity to do so, instead of having someone get: "WARNING: Expressing _________ viewpoint is NEVER ok! Three day ban."
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
As a longtime Neogaffer of 10 years, I'd rate it as very poor.

The new Neogaf:
  • Has a seething hatred and obsession with Feminism - seriously just check the number of threads started about it.
  • Never shuts up the fuck about Resetera.
  • Skews to the right but pretends it doesn't.
  • Has an influx of new posters that say the dumbest shit imaginable with no repercussions
 
As a longtime Neogaffer of 10 years, I'd rate it as very poor.

Let me translate that for you poeple out there:
  • Has a seething hatred and obsession with Feminism - seriously just check the number of threads started about it.
"Feminism should never be criticized even if most people are in strong support of gender equality but don't identify themselves as feminist for the very same reasons that I don't want to hear about."
  • Never shuts up the fuck about Resetera.
"I'm a Resetera user and only come here to take a dump on these forums. That's why I don't like you criticizing that other place."
  • Skews to the right but pretends it doesn't.
"I'm suddenly confronted with arguments that make me rethink my views critically and are hard to counter. Please make it stop!"
  • Has an influx of new posters that say the dumbest shit imaginable with no repercussions
"Only I am allowed to say the dumbest sh*t imaginable with no repercussions!"
 

Papa

Banned
As a longtime Neogaffer of 10 years, I'd rate it as very poor.

The new Neogaf:
  • Has a seething hatred and obsession with Feminism - seriously just check the number of threads started about it.
  • Never shuts up the fuck about Resetera.
  • Skews to the right but pretends it doesn't.
  • Has an influx of new posters that say the dumbest shit imaginable with no repercussions

  • The clingers-on who drop by once a week to complain and throw out vague generalisations
 
Last edited:

entremet

Member
It's gone from a leftist hell-hole to a typical group of right wing and right-leaning dipshits that largely make the same retarded arguments that the old folks did, just from the other side. Instead of a bunch of people patting themselves on the back for proper and correct groupthink, it's a bunch of people patting themselves on the back for noticing that the left is full of proper and correct groupthink and calling it out. We used to have threads involving outrage over something not worthy of outrage, and page upon page of posters making the same asinine variant of a "this is awful" statement, and now it's roughly the same sorts of threads, pointing out outrage over something not worthy of outrage, and page upon page of posters making the same asinine variant of a "lol free speach, snowflakes" statement.

Only now there's less of it, so that's good. I guess.

Sorry for the driveby post. I rarely actually post here anymore, and ResetERA is no better, but this thread really got me going. I wish online forums didn't have to skew so heavily to one side or the other, as it just creates partisan pockets of self-congratulating, masturbatory, bias confirming echo chambers all across the internet. I wish some of the posters here now actually spoke up back in the day, and I wish the administrative staff had done a better job of vetting moderators that had a mix of idealogies. I wish ResetERA wasn't going down the same path that old-GAF did, only ten times worse. I wish some of those posters would come back here, but they'd likely be shouted down by the new posters, and I wish some of the posters here would go over there, but they'd likely be banned.
It seems that online communities tend to be self enforcing in terms of views. People used to call this place an echo chamber, but if you go on any of the anti GAF sites, they are just as echo chambers in the opposite direction.

Then you have places the r/TheDonald where any criticism of the President and you're banned. It feel like this online world has made us more insular and self segregating. And Facebook is the perfect example of this and how it was gamed during the election with their social feed, which was based on user preferences.
 
Last edited:

royox

Member
As a longtime Neogaffer of 10 years, I'd rate it as very poor.

The new Neogaf:
  • Has a seething hatred and obsession with Feminism - seriously just check the number of threads started about it.
  • Never shuts up the fuck about Resetera.
  • Skews to the right but pretends it doesn't.
  • Has an influx of new posters that say the dumbest shit imaginable with no repercussions

But you won't get a Ban here for saying you liked Kingdom Come Deliverance, can't say the same about Era :3.

I'd rather prefer posts about lol-feminism here (because it's reaching ridiculous levels of stupidity) than all the butt-hurtism you have everything on era. That people has the thinnest sking i've ever seen. They will be upset at EVERYTHING on every game. Most of the OT are filled by "why I can't play as a lesbian black trans woman" kind of posts . I still remember the outrage because Pokémon Let's Go will ask "are you a boy or a girl?" Instead of giving the kids 50 gender options so everyone can relate to the character.
 

ILLtown

Member
It seems that online communities tend to self enforcing in terms of views. People used to call this place an echo chamber, but if you go on any of the anti GAF sites, they are just as echo chambers in the opposite direction.

Then you have places the r/TheDonald where any criticism of the President and you're banned. It feel like this online world has made us more insular and self segregating. And Facebook is the perfect example of this and how it was gamed during the election with their social feed, which was based on user preferences.
It feels odd to defend The_Donald, but the difference is, they literally say in their sub rules that it's a place for supporters of Donald Trump only. It's an echo chamber by design and they're not even trying to hide it.

This place used to get mocked not only because it was an echo chamber, but because there was a level of denial that went along with that. Never forget that classic ban message: -

If you think that GAF is a hive mind where people get banned for disagreeing, then you don't need to post here.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
Let me translate that for you poeple out there:
  • Has a seething hatred and obsession with Feminism - seriously just check the number of threads started about it.
"Feminism should never be criticized even if most people are in strong support of gender equality but don't identify themselves as feminist for the very same reasons that I don't want to hear about."
  • Never shuts up the fuck about Resetera.
"I'm a Resetera user and only come here to take a dump on these forums. That's why I don't like you criticizing that other place."
  • Skews to the right but pretends it doesn't.
"I'm suddenly confronted with arguments that make me rethink my views critically and are hard to counter. Please make it stop!"
  • Has an influx of new posters that say the dumbest shit imaginable with no repercussions
"Only I am allowed to say the dumbest sh*t imaginable with no repercussions!"
  • The clingers-on who drop by once a week to complain and throw out vague generalisations

Sorry my post triggered you.

P.S. I post here all the time.
 

Airola

Member
Yeah I guess that calling women money-grubbing incubators, responsible for all gay men, while also being told by mods to 'deal with it' isn't really the best way to keep them posting here.

Have that type of posts really been that common here? Responsible for all gay men? Has someone really said that here? That kind of stuff requires some special brainwork to come up with :D
 

Rich TAYLOR

Neo Member
I mostly Lurk but as a gaymer republican I’m glad there is a place like Neogaf for us! it was impossible to read this site before with all the sjw cucks infesting gaming side lol
 

Airola

Member

Oh yeah, I remember that now. This kinda proves my point in there having to be some special brainwork going on to write stuff like that, though :D
He has pretty wild ideas about pretty much everything and he somehow is able to put them out with a special kind of unintentional venom. He was banned for a while though, but I think it was because of something else. Probably because of his conspiracy theories that were not fit to the discussion at all. Currently he's stirring trouble in the Christianity thread by being in a full-speed anti-Catholic mode.
 
Last edited:

BraveOne

Member
Sorry my post triggered you.

P.S. I post here all the time.


tenor.gif
 

Skyr

Member
I used to be afraid of posting in off-topic section on old-Gaf. So I mostly kept to the gaming section.
It's a good feeling to be able to share an opinion without the fear of being insta-banned.

My first account on gaf was banned because of supposed "concerne trolling" by some lunatic mod.
I remember sitting in front of my computer with my mouth wide open and just totally confused why someone would ban me for simply just stating my opinion.

The gaming section is still very inactive tho. I hope in a year or so it will be more populated.

EDIT: Actually I just found the post I was banned for and I would like to hear your opinion if this is ban worthy. It was actually a gaming related post. And btw it was my first post in that thread and it's not like I had a history of "concerne trolling" in any way.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-driveclub-gameplay.902153/page-48#post-132269846
 
Last edited:

Kamina

Golden Boy
I don’t understand the exaggerations in this thread. GAF is neither homophobic, nor sexist or alt-right or radicl left these days.
I’d say we have a healthy mid range society here mostly. And most importantly no one gets banned for having a different or unpopular opinion unless it is outright hate speech or consecutive shitposting.

Basline: Don’t blame a whole forum society just because you had a word-fight with some people who are not sharing your point of view.
 
Last edited:

Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
My first account on gaf was banned because of supposed "concerne trolling" by some lunatic mod.
I remember sitting in front of my computer with my mouth wide open and just totally confused why someone would ban me for simply just stating my opinion.
Yeah, that should have been called “GAF face”. I’m sure it has a new name by now...
 

NickFire

Member
I used to be afraid of posting in off-topic section on old-Gaf. So I mostly kept to the gaming section.
It's a good feeling to be able to share an opinion without the fear of being insta-banned.

My first account on gaf was banned because of supposed "concerne trolling" by some lunatic mod.
I remember sitting in front of my computer with my mouth wide open and just totally confused why someone would ban me for simply just stating my opinion.

The gaming section is still very inactive tho. I hope in a year or so it will be more populated.

EDIT: Actually I just found the post I was banned for and I would like to hear your opinion if this is ban worthy. It was actually a gaming related post. And btw it was my first post in that thread and it's not like I had a history of "concerne trolling" in any way.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-driveclub-gameplay.902153/page-48#post-132269846
Bwahahahaha - you were banned for that post? Even for the old mods, that’s one hell of a giant leap across the Grand Canyon to view that as ban worthy. You Should PM Evilore to review it and merge your old and new account if he agrees how dumb that ban was. He’s cleaning up lots of those old messes and will give you a fair shake.
 

Skyr

Member
Bwahahahaha - you were banned for that post? Even for the old mods, that’s one hell of a giant leap across the Grand Canyon to view that as ban worthy. You Should PM Evilore to review it and merge your old and new account if he agrees how dumb that ban was. He’s cleaning up lots of those old messes and will give you a fair shake.

Yep. Actually after reading through the responses in the thread again, I might have been reported by several members who couldn't handle a comparison to Forza I made in a sentence.
They then went through my post history, which somehow led them to the conclusion that I didn't even own a xbox one. Which is just hilarious.
I didn't even have a chance to defend myself, as I was permabanned instantly.
 
Last edited:

Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Yep. Actually after reading through the responses in the thread again, I might have been reported by several members who couldn't handle a comparison to Forza Horizon I made in a sentence.
They then went through my post history, which somehow led them to the conclusion that I didn't even own a xbox one. Which is just hilarious.
I didn't even have a chance to defend myself, as I was permabanned instantly.
A good ol’ fashioned dogpile! Those were the days.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Ah, it looks like the usual far-left militants have found another opportunity to sh*t on these forums for opening discussion to people from all walks of life. Those are the same people that like to point fingers and make baseless assumptions about others, screeching "alt-right Nazi Drumpf" when their arguments are failing them. It's the same prohibitive mindset that managed to transform this forum into the hellish echo-chamber that it was a couple of months ago, yet these people are still allowed to spew their venom.

Their agenda is clear as day, destroy the reputation of NeoGAF by repeating the lie that it has become an alt-right forum and trying to get other voices banned by labeling everybody who doesn't agree with them a bigot and a fascist. Apparently no discussion can be had and no opinion expressed without these people desperately trying to put you into a neatly defined drawer you don't even belong, only because social media has robbed them of their critical thinking skills and political tribalism has replaced their debating skills.

Free speech is allowing these people to discharge their bile, even though the agenda behind their routine attacks is clear as day. They can't stand that this forum has finally made open discussions possible again, because now that people can talk back they look silly and they have to actually start using real arguments now. For that crime alone NeoGAF must be smeared and shamed into submission.

How else are they going to fight this imaginary war with the evil "alt-right neo-nazis" that are infesting gamers game enthusiasts who simply want to enjoy life whether they be male or female women, without the influx of the evil racism/sexism/transphobia they bring? /s

Honestly, I would be surprised - but it seems like these types of folk are becoming even more transparent than ever. At least a couple months ago they had some pretense of creating an argument (no matter how flawed) to try to prove their claims, but now they just make the claims willy-nilly without any evidence/explanation to back them up. "It is just transphobic/racist because I said so!" "You are driving away all the women, because of you are sexists/misogynsts!" Quite sad, really.

I have been open with my distaste of actual transphobic/racist/sexist attitudes as well as the current administration (referring to the US, not NeoGaf) - but I don't make false claims of such, nor do I try to demonize/scrutinize every last action that the administration takes. I try to see where the posters are coming from, what their points of view are, and have a discussion. If something is not clear to me as a -phobic/-ist statement, I message a mod and ask them if it crosses the rules, or I wait to see how they will explain themselves in further posts within that thread. Same goes with any political thread. Sometimes I make mistakes and I try to learn from them - not double down on the insanity. I just wished these specific members would do the same. Some of them can have a good point of view that can add a lot to the discussion - but instead they seem to want to focus on hottakes and false claims.
 

Ichabod

Banned
In the wake of the Wokepacalypse, I'm liking how things are shaping up. I feel at home any place where I can engage in civil discourse without having to constantly tip toe around the virtue police.

While threads still move slowly, I have noticed they are, as a whole, getting incrementally more active over time.

The new forum features and qol improvements are welcome additions and the diligence and hard work of the team responsible for them is much appreciated.

Lastly, it's cool seeing the big cheese be more proactive in engaging with the forum at large.

So far, I give new GAF a 9.13726514...out of 10...10...10...
 

prag16

Banned
A good ol’ fashioned dogpile! Those were the days.
Ha, yeah, that point in time was probably close to the peak of PS4bone warzzz. Things calmed down a bit later on I think, but 2014 was hot. The embarrassing dogpile probably prompted the ban as much as the post itself.
 

Nymphae

Banned
As a longtime Neogaffer of 10 years, I'd rate it as very poor.

The new Neogaf:
  • Has a seething hatred and obsession with Feminism - seriously just check the number of threads started about it.
  • Never shuts up the fuck about Resetera.
  • Skews to the right but pretends it doesn't.
  • Has an influx of new posters that say the dumbest shit imaginable with no repercussions

I joined NG 3 or 4 years ago I think, and I like the vibe here better now. The majority of the community was trash, and I'm glad they all left for their own hugbox rather than try to ban everything and everyone they don't agree with.

To your points:
-The seething hatred for feminism is preferable to the SJW groupthink which passed for "debate" at old NG and now Resetera. I feel like here, at least an SJW could post a thread and there would be discussion. At Resetera, I am constantly holding back my opinions because I know I will be banned for them.
- I see about as much talk here about Era as I do talk about NG there. And they're a bunch of babies about it too, only referring to NG as "that place", "that other forum" lol. Fucking grow up.
- Does this place pretend it skews any way? Individual posters voice their opinions, which is great!
- I see FAR less driveby and just overall worthless posts here. Have you fucking been to Era? Every day the front page is just loaded with new completely inane list threads and "Should I try X?" type threads, and the content within threads is laughable 90% of the time. It very much feels like old Gaf, just without anyone right of center. I find the quality of posts here better than the average Era post by a good margin.

I check out Era because it's highly active, and if I'm reading about a new release or something, I can find some posts of value sometimes while wading through the BS. But the quality of discussion is far better here imo, even if it isn't as constantly active.
 
Last edited:

Beard of the Forest

The No. 1 cause of forest fires is trees.
Yeah I guess that calling women money-grubbing incubators, responsible for all gay men, while also being told by mods to 'deal with it' isn't really the best way to keep them posting here.

Not to mention open transphobia ("trannies" and "chicks with dicks" being thrown around with no regard) and racism are pretty common now.

I get that people like this new "hands-off" approach to the moderation here but maintaining decency among users shouldn't be pushed to the sidelines like it has.

If you see posts such as described here, REPORT THEM. Responsibilities of a moderator extend beyond simply banning anyone who breaks the rules. You may not be made aware of reprimands delivered but they exist none the less. There's nothing "hands-off" about our approach btw. We simply allow our user base to have opinions of their own as opposed to forcing all views to conform to some staff approved standard.

Also, please provide links as proof of these allegations you're accusing us of.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I would say that staff is like me: Nuanced, critical, can take a joke. People get reply bans now and temp bans. They are also quite approachable, infact, with some of them i have been working along. I guess that now makes me a Little Helper aswell. ;)

That being said, with the return of older members and with the random bannings by The Names, GAF is picking up refugees that are slightly down the curve when it comes to quality posting. I am saying this in a very polite manner, because really, its not that great. Then ofcourse you have disgruntled Forumites who want to take a stab at GAF. All cool beans, as long as its nuanced. GAF is still actively getting back on track, but atleast the tracks that are lain down are less likely to derail and have more stations to take a breeze at. As long as we need little stop signs to get these trains running, we should be running well.

Lets make an effort together.

I want to give a shoutout to the current staff, M Moderator 10 , EviLore EviLore , Arkhan Arkhan , Bill O'Rights Bill O'Rights , Gromph Gromph , Beard of the Forest Beard of the Forest , DCharlie DCharlie , DGrayson DGrayson and everyone else that i haven't yet named for taking the effort to bounce back after a deep, deep well

PS: To all members, ill try to post more Digital Foundry threads in the very soon feature and just make it a regular thing.
PPS: Many of the criticisms raised here can also be pushed to this semi-permanent thread, where we discuss things about other sites. I tend to post quite a bit there, hopefully it is with a little bit of nuance about it.

The only i do miss is a more highlighted ban reason thingie, now i see multiple users already banned and i have no idea why, and seeing some of the users having a banned marker, this thing is a must. Oh, and perhaps some different QoL updates, but ive already told most of that by now so no need to rush that. Perhaps with politics at a semi-permanent spot or something.

Oh, and i want this to be adopted by the moderators. :) (Its from 12 years ago but its still ever so relevant today.)
 

Trey

Member
There is no incentive for this civil discourse so many "new" posters claim they're looking forward to. In fact, the stock reply to this thread being something along the lines of expressing joy that the totalitarian leftist regime of old can no longer stamp out the small, scrappy conservative voices that just want to talk games, man. Indeed, if the volume of posters making that claim in this thread extrapolated to the rest of the forum, gaming side wouldn't be inert, and the community forums wouldn't be frozen in time.

GAF - beyond being a hallowed shell of its former self - seems to have an identity problem befitting the context which lead to its current situation. The core members of the original community: all the content creators, industry types, personalities, and consistent contributors have by and large left, aside from the owner of the site. The schism has left GAF as intransigent in degree as many current posters feel it was in the past, simply from a different angle. Many old users would feel alienated, myself included; any new users would be rebuffed by the lack of activity and the undercurrent of bitterness which pervades most discussions of the meta.

All this in service of a righteous claim to rolling back the *SJW cuck* policies; a return to "civil discourse," where on the front page there are threads openly discussing the merits of removing the ability for same sex couples to adopt children. In this forum's zealousness to correct the sins of the past, it has enabled rhetoric that is openly hostile to minorities and oppressed communities - underrepresented but active in GAF's past, but virtually extinct in its current incarnation. But this is fine, because the wisdom is if they're cool they'll come, but if they don't then they're thin skinned and not rational any way.

Evilore is the common denominator. His pivot toward this more..."moderate" tone of discourse, replete with excuses and throwing his past modship under the bus, sets the stage for him to adopt the current neutral stance many tech leaders have fostered for their communities. After all, a dude who thinks black people are naturally less intelligent than whites is worth the same view count as someone who argues for trans rights. As long as he doesn't advocate for lynching blacks overnight, maybe he can get away with suggesting a return to poll tests in low income areas.

He's certainly adopted the attitude of his current userbase: in his many post mortem posts, he's decried the SJWs for taking discussion to an extreme. In this very thread, he throws around the term "retarded" in a tongue in cheek rebuke of political correctness, of I had to venture a guess. This is the reality of his *new* civil discourse, and the tone he wants for his forum.

And that is his right: it is his forum. And ultimately, that's what GAF - and by extension, Evilore - deserve. He has chartered this new direction for GAF, and it has attracted what apparently needed a platform to exist. The ship has sailed and its destination has been set. Lines have been drawn, and no amount of peaking across to the other lawn will fill the void that was left here. GAF will be, for better or worse, the antithesis of what it was.
 
I have returned to GAF recently and I think it is much more healthy now. Actual discussion is possible without getting banned. Things are much less toxic. Sure, it's still a bit slow, but I think things will improve more and more. It's up to moderation to keep it healthy.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
There is no incentive for this civil discourse so many "new" posters claim they're looking forward to. In fact, the stock reply to this thread being something along the lines of expressing joy that the totalitarian leftist regime of old can no longer stamp out the small, scrappy conservative voices that just want to talk games, man. Indeed, if the volume of posters making that claim in this thread extrapolated to the rest of the forum, gaming side wouldn't be inert, and the community forums wouldn't be frozen in time.

GAF - beyond being a hallowed shell of its former self - seems to have an identity problem befitting the context which lead to its current situation. The core members of the original community: all the content creators, industry types, personalities, and consistent contributors have by and large left, aside from the owner of the site. The schism has left GAF as intransigent in degree as many current posters feel it was in the past, simply from a different angle. Many old users would feel alienated, myself included; any new users would be rebuffed by the lack of activity and the undercurrent of bitterness which pervades most discussions of the meta.

By "personalities", do you mean the people who would shout down any opposing view point, constantly mock any conservative/republican, and openly act with hostility - suggesting death to the people with a different political opinion? By "industry types", do you mean the handful of people from the gaming journalism industry and the ever-increasingly-small group of developers who remained after they were run off from the idiotic thought-policing and witch hunts that was ongoing (and still continues with the other side)?

All this in service of a righteous claim to rolling back the *SJW cuck* policies; a return to "civil discourse," where on the front page there are threads openly discussing the merits of removing the ability for same sex couples to adopt children. In this forum's zealousness to correct the sins of the past, it has enabled rhetoric that is openly hostile to minorities and oppressed communities - underrepresented but active in GAF's past, but virtually extinct in its current incarnation. But this is fine, because the wisdom is if they're cool they'll come, but if they don't then they're thin skinned and not rational any way.

Any *actual* hostility towards minorities and oppressed communities is dealt with by the moderation team. What you are experiencing is a difference in opinion that you cannot handle, therefore you must call it hostile. As for minorities/oppressed communities being "virtually extinct", I will need to see receipts on that. There are plenty of people from those communities that still converse day-to-day on this forum. Most of them just don't play the oppression olympics like what used to be the norm here.

Evilore is the common denominator. His pivot toward this more..."moderate" tone of discourse, replete with excuses and throwing his past modship under the bus, sets the stage for him to adopt the current neutral stance many tech leaders have fostered for their communities. After all, a dude who thinks black people are naturally less intelligent than whites is worth the same view count as someone who argues for trans rights. As long as he doesn't advocate for lynching blacks overnight, maybe he can get away with suggesting a return to poll tests in low income areas.

The modship threw themselves under the bus, years ago. There is a reason why Gaf had the reputation it had across the entire gaming space and it wasn't due to them "fighting the good fight". Also, if you disagree with someone - debate. Discuss. Don't just whine about how "evil" they are and how they don't fit your personal view points.

He's certainly adopted the attitude of his current userbase: in his many post mortem posts, he's decried the SJWs for taking discussion to an extreme. In this very thread, he throws around the term "retarded" in a tongue in cheek rebuke of political correctness, of I had to venture a guess. This is the reality of his *new* civil discourse, and the tone he wants for his forum.

And that is his right: it is his forum. And ultimately, that's what GAF - and by extension, Evilore - deserve. He has chartered this new direction for GAF, and it has attracted what apparently needed a platform to exist. The ship has sailed and its destination has been set. Lines have been drawn, and no amount of peaking across to the other lawn will fill the void that was left here. GAF will be, for better or worse, the antithesis of what it was.

Definitely for the better. There is no 'worse' here. The 'worse' was created over on the other side, which you seem very much keen on defending. Given your recent post history, anyhow.
 

Skyn3t

Banned
I don't know if it's possible, but it would be nice to see which mod warned you and be able to try to discuss some matters via PM.
 
Last edited:

Mahadev

Member
There is no incentive for this civil discourse so many "new" posters claim they're looking forward to. In fact, the stock reply to this thread being something along the lines of expressing joy that the totalitarian leftist regime of old can no longer stamp out the small, scrappy conservative voices that just want to talk games, man. Indeed, if the volume of posters making that claim in this thread extrapolated to the rest of the forum, gaming side wouldn't be inert, and the community forums wouldn't be frozen in time.

GAF - beyond being a hallowed shell of its former self - seems to have an identity problem befitting the context which lead to its current situation. The core members of the original community: all the content creators, industry types, personalities, and consistent contributors have by and large left, aside from the owner of the site. The schism has left GAF as intransigent in degree as many current posters feel it was in the past, simply from a different angle. Many old users would feel alienated, myself included; any new users would be rebuffed by the lack of activity and the undercurrent of bitterness which pervades most discussions of the meta.

All this in service of a righteous claim to rolling back the *SJW cuck* policies; a return to "civil discourse," where on the front page there are threads openly discussing the merits of removing the ability for same sex couples to adopt children. In this forum's zealousness to correct the sins of the past, it has enabled rhetoric that is openly hostile to minorities and oppressed communities - underrepresented but active in GAF's past, but virtually extinct in its current incarnation. But this is fine, because the wisdom is if they're cool they'll come, but if they don't then they're thin skinned and not rational any way.

Evilore is the common denominator. His pivot toward this more..."moderate" tone of discourse, replete with excuses and throwing his past modship under the bus, sets the stage for him to adopt the current neutral stance many tech leaders have fostered for their communities. After all, a dude who thinks black people are naturally less intelligent than whites is worth the same view count as someone who argues for trans rights. As long as he doesn't advocate for lynching blacks overnight, maybe he can get away with suggesting a return to poll tests in low income areas.

He's certainly adopted the attitude of his current userbase: in his many post mortem posts, he's decried the SJWs for taking discussion to an extreme. In this very thread, he throws around the term "retarded" in a tongue in cheek rebuke of political correctness, of I had to venture a guess. This is the reality of his *new* civil discourse, and the tone he wants for his forum.

And that is his right: it is his forum. And ultimately, that's what GAF - and by extension, Evilore - deserve. He has chartered this new direction for GAF, and it has attracted what apparently needed a platform to exist. The ship has sailed and its destination has been set. Lines have been drawn, and no amount of peaking across to the other lawn will fill the void that was left here. GAF will be, for better or worse, the antithesis of what it was.


Your first and second paragraphs basically say nothing and offer no legitimate arguments, just a lot of generalizing claims with nothing to back them up. The third paragraph is an obnoxious strawman based on one extreme example, I bet the only you could find. The fourth is also a strawman as if the fifth and the rest of them. The whole post imo has a very pseudo-intellectual tone with very little content.

Your entire post is based on assumptions, extreme examples and strawman arguments, it's a bitter rant because the forum's admin made the horrible decision of allowing people to offer opinions different than your own. For your information I'm a socialist and I too dislike the so called "SJWs" and your behavior exemplifies why. The moment someone dares to defend or allow free speech your group rushes to smear and destroy his reputation. This is a classic authoritarian trait and imo this isn't about left vs right at all, it's about authoritarians vs social libertarians.
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
I see a platform where everyone is able to speak their mind, and as long as no one goes after individual posters in a hostile way or the threads don't veer way off course...conversation can continue. As I've said before... I missed the whole chaos of the last 5 years or so, which apparently means I missed a good bit of drama.

...but I mean who cares? I don't see any viewpoint being silenced. I also see that apparently we like to chat about politics, gender identity and racial stuff a lot compared to what I remember...but I guess those are the times.

I don't really know what else someone could ask for out of a forum.

I mean I wish politics stopped invading every single thread in some capacity...but I guess thems the times.
 

Shiki_

Banned
Your first and second paragraphs basically say nothing and offer no legitimate arguments, just a lot of generalizing claims with nothing to back them up. The third paragraph is an obnoxious strawman based on one extreme example, I bet the only you could find. The fourth is also a strawman as if the fifth and the rest of them. The whole post imo has a very pseudo-intellectual tone with very little content.

You know about JordanN JordanN ? He really loves to think black people problems are their own fault, it's worried white people are not going to be majority in the future (in the USA, even if he's Canadian) and and he dismiss or ignore any single source you throw to him.
 
Last edited:

ymoc

Member
Pardon my English, it is not my native language.

I've been a memeber for quite a few years, lurked a few years before joining. It was just enough time to experience a nice community in the start of 2010s. Then forum started to feel more and more oppressive. I can't really describe the feeling it gave in the past couple of years. A certain repulsion, distaste. It became so extremely political that it was impossible not to be engulfed in a narrow spectre of "the correct thought patterns". I know I'm not the only one who is literally drained of energy in such an evironment.

No, I don't want politics in everything, goddamnit. I love games. They relax me.
Yes, let's discuss politics too, it is a just cause and a needed one, but not in every case every time everywhere. Things to so bad that you could not find a single topic where something was not wrong. Where something was SHIT, where THIS FUCKER or that FUCKER, FUCK HIM, fuck HER.....And half the time there was nothing conclusive. All it took was doubt or insinuation and the mob would grab the pitchforks.

And because of this prevalent current of will even writing these words I can imagine one doubting himself. Do these feelings actually come from some latent racism or negative aspect of ones psyche? I know it happens, since every now and then I stumble upon a topic "Did I just commit unintentional racism today?" where the OP would ask in fear to the justice jurors whether his/her actions were or were not not an act of a latent unmanifested racism within them.
These people are pushed so far that they start doubting their own psyche. Is their human nature corrupt or not and what they can do to stop this evil from corrupting them.
I cannot imagine what such a person goes through. And NOBODY ever suggests talking to a doctor about that, not like in every other health related topic (why you posting this here, go see a doctor ASAP!). Mental issue like these aren't even on the radar. They cannot even conceive that something is seriously wrong with them.

And it's not like one would differ greatly from the general progressive ideas. You sometimes only had to say something in a wrong manner and you became the enemy. It was an actual thought-policing place and for the first time in my life I could feel what living in an orwellian world would feel like. God is that depressing.

Resetera continues these traditions since it was created by the same group leading idealogists and content creators. It is a continuation of the damaged state of GAF before the split.
Although it's not all black and white.
I seriously dislike juvenile rivalries and we have people doing them on both sides. There is good there, like a very active user base, etc. There is good here. There is bad there, there is bad here. So just stop with this pointless narrative.

But the far-left people lost thier way a long time ago. For them every single thing in life is political. You cannot disagree with that, not on resetera. It reminds me of first year university Politics 101 class from a hipster proffessor whose first question to the class was "Can this :points to some flowers on his desk: bouquet be political?" and the pseudo-intellectual discussion that followed.
And it's even worse here, because there is only one answer. You MUST see politics in everything. You MUST take into account unprivilidged subjects in EVERY SITUATION, otherwise you are labeled a alt-right fascist who is a subhuman entity designated for removal. The really sad thing here is that I believe vast majority of people aren't really bigots, supremacists, etc, yet they are labeled these things for completely arbitrary reasons. And so the entire community starts soiling its own pool.

It is inevitable that in such environment cognitive dissonance develops sooner or later. Depression is also a given. It's is such an unhealthy situation.
It is tragic that people whose hearts are in the right place lose their way so badly and really cannot see the forest for the trees.
I sometimes see certain moderating trying to maybe let some topics breathe a little, a slight change that I didn't see at the old-gaf, but these occurances are drowned in the giant see of social justice politics.

I sometimes wonder if these people lack a certain aspect of intelligence, because I remember reading many times about articles posted, which stated (by field experts) that to argue and attack people with racist views is usually unproductive and actually reaffirms their positins when you react with hate and detachment to them. And people would mostly agree with those messages; let's try to approach them like human beings, even though they are in the wrong, let's not attack them in a straight line, which will only erect a defensive position to end all meaningful interaction. Yet to actually go and practice those methods in reality is something that they refuse with a burning passion.
So they lock themselves in an endless circle of hate - hate other people who in turn hate them.
In the end one does wonder if these tumultuous pools of human interactions are a festering ground for serious social ruptures and a rise to honestly extreme ideologies.

It is really refreshing to be here after the split. It feels more like a normal place again. Sure there are some overenthusiastic right wingers here and there, some actual racists and shovinists, but those get dealt with just as before.
The difference is that I don't need to recheck my post for thought-crime 10 times before posting why I like the new Tomb Rider game or something.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
Politics, politics, politics, yawn. Is that really what counts? On a gaming forum?

I have
I hope politics can be left at the door for the majority of discussions. I have noticed it creep in to a few threads like the James Gunn thread, I just hope Evilore doesn't let it grow like a cancer this time. Politics in nearly every thread drove me crazy with old GAF.

Very much these two posts. It’s a shame how the political climate has infected everything online. I miss the days of game and movie forums just being focused on the hobbies and not having news and politics infecting everything. Entertainment is meant to be an escape from such things, and now you mostly have to disengage from the online community to do that. Which sucks as the community was a large part of the fun back in the day.

And a Politics section created :whistle:

I’m STRONGLY in favor of this. Make a sub-area for all political news stuff, including political/social issues in games threads. Let the gaming area focus on reviews, previews, game OTs, regular game news (not politically charged stories like the GoG tweet or Naughty Dog agenda threads as current examples). Let Offtopic be movies, shows, books, sports, and random life type threads.

I think that would help bring back traffic to gaming and off topic by bringing in people who stay away to avoid the political bickering and also allow the political discussion to still prosper and thrive all in one place. Cheapassgamer.com forums were great back in the day as they had (still have, but traffic is dead for years over there) a political forum that kept those debates thriving and let the other areas stay more on topic. I'd love to see that here and think it could lure back some more regular (i.e. not political extremists on either side) from Era and other places who just want to talk games, movies, life stuffy without all the drama that infects discussions here and there.

Much better. However I think community topics for both gaming and off topic should be axed.

I'd agree with this as well, at least until traffic amps back up. Game OTs, off topic OTs etc. are a core part of the experience here before the split and on ERA now, but with low traffic I think too many people just don't bother visiting those sub-forums. I'd merge them back in and see if that added visibility helps some of those thrive again. If traffic picks up and it's too a point that community OTs and older game OTs are cluttering the main forums, then they could be split off again. But for now, merge them back and see if that helps them not be ghost towns.
 

lil puff

Member
OP. Welcome back.

I think it's fine as long as you don't overthink it too much.

Also, I appreciate the fact that threads aren't just filled with posts that repeat the same thing over and over as if no one read the few pages before them and considered not to post the same thing. It's like damn I get it, why the need to repost the exact same sentiment 50 people before you already did? Quality over quantity is not a bad thing.
 

Mahadev

Member
You know about JordanN JordanN ? He really loves to think black people problems are their own fault, it's worried white people are not going to be majority in the future (in the USA, even if he's Canadian) and and he dismiss or ignore any single source you throw to him.


OK that's just one member with an opinion that, if your description is accurate, is simply wrong. I still don't mind arguing with such a person and explain my point of view, even if I can't convince him I might convince others on how his opinion is completely wrong.

And that is if your description is true, because there's a huge difference between saying that black people created all the problems they have and disagreeing with someone who says that all problems black people face are society's fault. And I'm saying this because I've seen opinions like this constantly being misinterpreted, deliberately or not.
 
Last edited:

Trey

Member
Your first and second paragraphs basically say nothing and offer no legitimate arguments, just a lot of generalizing claims with nothing to back them up. The third paragraph is an obnoxious strawman based on one extreme example, I bet the only you could find. The fourth is also a strawman as if the fifth and the rest of them. The whole post imo has a very pseudo-intellectual tone with very little content.

Your entire post is based on assumptions, extreme examples and strawman arguments, it's a bitter rant because the forum's admin made the horrible decision of allowing people to offer opinions different than your own. For your information I'm a socialist and I too dislike the so called "SJWs" and your behavior exemplifies why. The moment someone dares to defend or allow free speech your group rushes to smear and destroy his reputation. This is a classic authoritarian trait and imo this isn't about left vs right at all, it's about authoritarians vs social libertarians.

I don't care about Claus' or your political opinions. It's not about you or Claus or even me. I wanted to avoid loaded terms because then it would become an "Us vs Them" battlefield that I'm also uninterested in, but unfortunately I was unsuccessful in that attempt. There's no tit for tat workshopping debate to be had here: I said what I said. I'm not invested in trying to make this forum better. If there is anything constructive for these forum goers or leadership to discern from my post, then good for them. If not, then that post will be exactly as useful as this account has been since October.
 
Last edited:

Mahadev

Member
I don't care about Claus' or your political opinions. It's not about you or Claus or even me. I wanted to avoid loaded terms because then it would become an "Us vs Them" battlefield that I'm also uninterested in, but unfortunately I was unsuccessful in that attempt. There's no tit for tat workshopping debate to be had here: I said what I said. I'm not invested in trying to make this forum better. If there is anything constructive for these forum goers or leadership to discern from my post, then good for them. If not, then that post will be exactly as useful as this account has been since October.


You claim you didn't want this to become an "us vs them" battlefield yet you throw accusations and use the darkest examples you can find to paint this forum and people in it in the bleakest way possible because it made the mistake of allowing difference of opinion other than your own. I wonder what you'd say if you wanted to do that then.
 
Last edited:

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
I don't care about Claus' or your political opinions. It's not about you or Claus or even me. I wanted to avoid loaded terms because then it would become an "Us vs Them" battlefield that I'm also uninterested in, but unfortunately I was unsuccessful in that attempt. There's no tit for tat workshopping debate to be had here: I said what I said. I'm not invested in trying to make this forum better. If there is anything constructive for these forum goers or leadership to discern from my post, then good for them. If not, then that post will be exactly as useful as this account has been since October.

You claim you do not care about political opinions, yet you immediately make broad brush strokes about political opinions. You don't want to make it an "Us vs Them", but then you immediately make generalizations forcing an "us vs them" narrative. You claim that there isn't a debate, nor that you want to make the forum any better - this is just a way of you shutting down any criticism and so you don't have to have any discussions in your disingenuous post.

It is clear you have no interest in Gaf, so why is it that you returned? Clearly it was only to crap on its community because it doesn't sit right with your political stance.
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
T Trey So just to be clear...you wanted to make a very lengthy post about how things here aren't worth getting optimistic about, and how you generally don't seem to like the direction the forum is going in or how the leadership is trying to open things up... but you don't care about this place nor it's success and don't want to have any debate about it?

The role of a forum and it's leadership is not to thought-police it's userbase. I haven't seen anyone being allowed to be abhorrently racist here. I haven't seen anyone anyone getting sexually harassed. I haven't even seen someone's weird opinions getting outright dismissed.

This is a place where people can say what they want to say...and if other people don't like it, they can debate it.

I personally find it interesting that I can participate in a place where there are all walks of life and perspective jammed together and "forced" to mingle with each other. No one gets a safe space here. And I think that's healthy and good.

If someone is used to or wants to be in a place that caters to a specific kind of thinking or a specific kind of like minded individuals, you can find that literally anywhere.

Here you have to be able to stand behind what you say to people who will disagree with you outright. And if you're not able to handle criticism, not able to defend your own beliefs, not able to look inward and determine if your perspective is valid or not... not able to see if someone else is making a valid point even if you disagree with their conclusion... I can see how this kind of place would be very unsettling.

I think (at least in America) we're spending so much time demonizing everyone that we forgot that the guy you probably like at the grocery store who helps you find shit is also a raging racist in private. The garbage man who waves and smiles at you everyday and jokes around with your kids goes home and dresses up like a woman. That the female doctor you go see that's cared for you her entire life marches for pro-life.

Everyone is getting so obsessed with defining everyone else entirely based on their particular perspective on a specific subject, that most of us seem to have forgotten that a person is so much more than their opinion on one subject. Someone can still be a good person despite being misguided or thoughtless or even ignorant and hateful when it comes to certain subject matter.

Let's just treat everyone like people we disagree with from time to time, but not outright vilify their entire existence for having a different perspective.

Right now there appears to be no shortage of reasons that someone can outright HATE another person.

Left/Right? Gay/Straight/Trans? Doesn't understand feminism? Doesn't agree with feminism? Doesn't understand trans people? Is uncomfortable with trans people? If someone expresses their opinion on any one of these things there are large groups of loud people who will demonize and discredit literally everything about that person.

It's a sad state of affairs.

I love and hate you all based on your quality of conversation, not your opinion on the matter.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom