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RIP Duke Nukem Forever. 3D Realms to close

Fox318 said:
Who the fuck lets their business, and their organization get so out of hand?
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I'm sure we can all name a few.

Fox318 said:
There is a problem when the first statement about the closing is this
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Eh what do you mean? Marketing has nothing to do with management if that's what you're implying. Also what he's referring to in context of where he posted is "no it's not a marketing stunt" and yes there's a problem because that means it's not a lie but I think we've already established that?
 
Fox318 said:
...
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Some of those aren't really valid comparisons. I'm pretty sure Valve didn't develop all those games internally for instance. But I'm more suprised that there's no mention of the GTA games, now those are games with a huge scale. Morrowind, Oblivion and Fall Out 3 got released as well.
 
Nocebo said:
I'm sure we can all name a few.


Eh what do you mean? Marketing has nothing to do with management if that's what you're implying. Also what he's referring to in context of where he posted is "no it's not a marketing stunt" and yes there's a problem because that means it's not a lie but I think we've already established that?
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I'm implying that when news of your business closing comes out the first thing fans think of is that 3dRealms is trying to punk everyone.
 
Nocebo said:
Some of those aren't really valid comparisons. I'm pretty sure Valve didn't develop all those games internally for instance. But I'm more suprised that there's no mention of the GTA games, now those are games with a huge scale. Morrowind, Oblivion and Fall Out 3 got released as well.
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Probably wouldn't mention Fallout 3. That took a nice decade to come out.
 
I´m still sure that this is a joke and that they will have a massive showing at E3 and everyone will go *wow* and it will be the greatest.................fuck no :((((((((((((((((((
Stay tuned forever.
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
Probably wouldn't mention Fallout 3. That took a nice decade to come out.
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It wasn't worked on by the same company for a decade was it? Correct me if I'm wrong but Bethesda worked on Morrwind, Oblivion and then Fallout 3 in sequence not to mention all kinds of expansions for each game.
Fox318 said:
I'm implying that when news of your business closing comes out the first thing fans think of is that 3dRealms is trying to punk everyone.
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Ah gotcha. Totally agree.
I remember George and co pulling some dumb "pranks" that they swear weren't pranks over the years.
Like George posting "It's done..." and then later "my pizza I mean" while suggesting he wasn't trying to pull anyone's leg about DNF.
 
SapientWolf said:
19991103h.jpg
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What's funny about this post is that even the comic is old.
 
It's a sad yet inevitable day in gaming. But working on a project for 13 years with the product not complete had to have murdered there budget. No telling how much money they wasted on this now cancelled project.
 
Fuck these guys man. I have been waiting for a Duke sequel for years and in the end it probably won't see the light of day? Fuck them.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
It's a sad yet inevitable day in gaming. But working on a project for 13 years with the product not complete had to have murdered there budget. No telling how much money they wasted on this now cancelled project.
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I still think they played video games all day while doing just enough to sustain the illusion that work was being done on DNF.
 
Eric Roth can now imagine an Oscar-nominated screenplay about a game that develops backwards while the rest of the world moves ahead.
 
I want Duke Nukem Forever, but I laughed. Yes I fucking laughed. 3D Realms were taking way too long teasing its fan base. Hopefully it gets picked up by a good developer and finally gets a release(3D Realms are a developer, they just took way too long.)

Expect an E3 "surprise" on the game.
 
Wrath2X said:
I want Duke Nukem Forever, but I laughed. Yes I fucking laughed. 3D Realms were taking way too long teasing its fan base. Hopefully it gets picked up by a good developer and finally gets a release(3D Realms are a developer, they just took way too long.)

Expect an E3 "surprise" on the game.
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Odds:
EA-50%
Other-50%
 
perfectchaos007 said:
Odds:
EA-50%
Other-50%
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Take Two are still publishers. EA won't get it - it'll stay within the TTWO company. And seeing as they have some pretty good FPS devs, I say that's a good thing.
 
I'd be stunned if TakeTwo do anything with it. They haven't been funding development, they're not heavily vested, the IP isn't really worth anything anymore, not enough to warrant putting a studio on it even if they could get the IP for development.

Maybe if the game was near complete (which I highly doubt) they could give it to someone to finish, the studio that made Prey maybe, but I think it's dead. Best to hope for is someone leaking code and fans putting something together.
 
You have got to be fucking kidding me... like come on, this has got to be a cruel joke. I mean god damn, has there ever been more of an epic failure in the gaming community than the development cycle of this game? I mean this whole thing is just sad.

Fox318 said:
IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/24gng1y.jpg[/IMG]
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:lol wow
 
Nocebo said:
Why? If they're dead I wouldn't expect one.
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Another company picking it up or something. Microsoft could pick it up and use it as another exclusive game or something, wont happen though.

I'm betting on Take-Two giving it to one of their Rockstar studios.
 
George Broussard is a fucking tool, an absolute fucking bastard, there, I said it, again.

I honestly hope that he goes to everyone at 3DR and personally apologises to them for fucking them over royally here, they didn't deserve it, though Broussard certainly did.

I remember back in 2001, after e3, when we were told, again that DNF was real and was to be coming out that year. After only 4 years, I was full of hope, it turned out that Broussard was lying, again. Since then I have watched every time Broussard came to the parapet, proclaiming DNF as the best game ever before vanishing without trace for another 6 months, each time his credibility turning further to dust, and now this.

A company doesn't just fold overnight, especially one that has essentially bet the farm on one project and all of a sudden, when the shit hits the fan, Broussard is mysteriously absent leaving his employees, past and present to try to contain the fallout.

Broussard, come out and explain yourself, why have you allowed this to go on for so long? why didn't you just accept the monies from Take2 all those years ago to get the game done? What the fuck has possessed you to screw your loyal fanbase, over and over? 3DRealms has one of the most loyal fanbases in gaming history, even now, yet it is headed by someone who clearly deserves nothing but contempt. I can only imagine an alternate reality, where say Gabe Newell found himself running 3DR, I can safely say we wouldn't be here, that's for sure.

Anyway, so long Duke, we'll miss you, I hope the employees still at 3DR manage to get jobs elsewhere, and I hope Broussard never gets another role in this industry again, he represents all what was wrong with it, a relic of an age long gone.
 
This fucking sucks. I have nothing more to add. I will get some whiskey and go to the striptease in memory of Duke.
 
A fellow on another forum put it quite nicely actually.

Coldstream from GWJ said:
I regard DNF in the same way that Tolkien spoke of the "towers in the distance": to go there is to destroy the magic.

DNF is a brilliant game, full of awesome one-liners, strippers, and ridiculous weapons. And it will remain so unless it is ever released.
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I do not get the mindset behind 3D Realms, they have two of the biggest vaporware titles ever in the history of videogames (I'm counting Prey because the final version was essentially a totally different game than the one initially planned in the mid 90s) I'd like to hear what Duke Nukem Forever was, like the grand concept behind it, because the thing had to be fucking awesome for them to continue working on it for so long. I secretly hope the game stays dead, each year that game was delayed it just became more of a joke each time, 3D Realms actually saved face in the end, because it was impossible for the game to ever live up to the hype. It's an intresting footnote in videogame history, but was pretty much never destined to be anything more.
 
This is history in the making folks. How to finish the longest running joke in gaming history with a bang of pure failure.
 
I expect a big publisher will pick up the rights, hire a small but competent FPS developer, who will then pick up the pieces 3D Realms left behind - turn around and churn out a decent DNF in a couple of years.
 
Demigod Mac said:
I expect a big publisher will pick up the rights, hire a small but competent FPS developer, who will then pick up the pieces 3D Realms left behind - turn around and churn out a decent DNF in a couple of years.
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sega-logo.jpg


Thats Sega's strategy this generation to a T.
 
From Charlie Wiederhold's (former 3DRealms employee) blog:
Note:
  • 3drealms.com is down so the provided images aren't working.
  • The Chair Story is obviously fiction
The Chair Story (revival)
This is my site Written by Charlie Wiederhold on May 6, 2009 – 11:58 pm

This is a story I wrote on another site in response to someone wanting me to elaborate more on a “chair story” I had referred to that happened during my time at 3DR. It’s not something I wanted to lose to the shifty waters of the Internet though, so I’m re-posting here. It’s left as is except for some typo cleanups and other minor details. Enjoy.

Note: Unfortunately due to 3D Realms’ website being down, the images will not work. I’ll try to get the originals and host them here but I don’t imagine that’s the first thing on their webmaster’s mind right now so it may take a while.

I’m going to regret writing this and probably get myself into trouble but here it goes…

This all took place at E3 2001. I don’t know who here knows much about what things were like at that E3 but I’ll give a brief breakdown. DNF was being published by Gathering of Developers. They were known for being eccentric as publishers go, but had the best booths at E3 if you could get in. Rather than putting up a booth on the main floor, they rented out the parking lot across from the Staples Center, fenced it in and blocked off visibility. You could only get in if you were on the list, or for certain specified viewing events.

They had a stage with a huge screen behind it, midgets, strippers dressed as schoolgirls, punk and rockabilly bands, etc. Beer and burgers being grilled up by Levelord. The games were demoed in cool 50’s era trailers (not so cool for game demos but hey… they made the lot look cool). This was all affectionately called the GoD lot and it’s where the booth babes from all the *other* booths came to hang out in their off time.

Needless to say there really wasn’t much reason to go anywhere else for those few days.

I’ll use pictures from 3DR’s site to help match up visuals to the story.

So for example this was the line to get into the GoD lot:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_5125.jpg.html

The Stage:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e301/dsc00092.jpg.html

sCary (Shacknews Steve Gibson) playing around in the middle of the lot:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4712.jpg.html

Levelord grilling some burgers:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4337.jpg.html

Chicks sucking on popsicles:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4406.jpg.html

etc…

Strangely enough it’s hard to find stuff about the actual games being shown there. Dunno if that would have anything to do with why the Gathering isn’t around anymore.

Anyways…

The DNF 2001 trailer was out as everyone knows, and it was doing insanely well. The entire team was jazzed, people seemed to really love it and all anyone kept asking was “When the hell do we get to play this oh god!?!?!”

Before heading out to E3, George and Scott Miller had arranged a meeting between Epic, 3DR, and the people who had worked on Duke 3D but weren’t working on DNF. The intent of this meeting was… you guessed it… how best to handle the future of the Duke franchise. Epic was invited because having Duke around on the Unreal Engine was a constant PR boon for them. So they are almost just as invested in how well Duke does as 3DR (as you will see later). It was a secret meeting (there were actually two meetings, but I’ll get to that later), not even the publisher knew about it (except Mike Wilson… he was operating outside of the Gathering of Developer’s authority). The people there were Scott Miller, George Broussard, Cliffy B, Mark Rein, Tim Sweeney, Levelord, Allen Blum, Keith Schuler, myself, Brandon Reinhart, Mike Wilson, and even Todd Replogle and Ken Silverman made the trip out there.

Interestingly, Cliffy B wore his damn suits:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_5118.jpg.html

Which I don’t have to tell you was incredibly distracting and made it hard to take his points seriously. But at least we knew when he was raising his hand to speak. Due to the level of “heat” in this meeting we had to have a more formal process for speaking because we’d all just wind up talking over each other if we didn’t.

Brandon, Allen, and Cliffy on the way to the second meeting. Note that they aren’t as happy as in other pictures. There is a reason for this:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4867.jpg.html

Don’t forget that this is what we would see when we would look out the rear window of our trailer while having our meetings:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4509.jpg.html

The silver trailer behind Scott and George is where it was being held:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e301/dsc00090.jpg.html

Anyways…

Most of us didn’t really know what the meeting was for going into it… and for the guys at 3DR at the time, we thought it was just going to be current 3DR people. Imagine our surprise to walk in and see that group of people sitting there! I’m such a huge Duke 3D fanboy, that I have to admit was a little intimidating being in the same room as pretty much all the core guys that made the game that got me started down the path of a game developer in the first place.

Anyways (for real this time)…

Scott quickly got to the point. Max Payne was going to do gangbusters… and 3DR had some other stuff up their sleeves that would be generating so much revenue for 3DR that they could continue on indefinitely… or at least another 5-10 years… without making a dime on internal development. Scott being the marketing buff he is (and Mark Rein being pretty much the same for Epic), they got this idea for how to generate the biggest story in the history of gaming. DNF being a monster hit is fine, but it wouldn’t make “forever” history. As you can tell from the name and what I’m about to describe, Scott and George apparently had this idea from the very start but weren’t sure they were going to act on it, but there wasn’t any harm in using a name that would play into it. So in order to make “Forever” history there was only one way to do that, and that is to turn it into something completely unprecedented in the industry. Turn it into the sort of thing that will be talked about 100 years from now.

I’m sure you can guess where this is ultimately going.

See in 2001 the jokes about DNF being late and vaporware were already widespread. It had already won the damn Wired vaporware award twice. Here was the funny thing… the attention on the game was actually only getting stronger, not weaker. It was the release of the video and how it was received that put the nail in the coffin. The game just had something that nothing else in the industry had and there wasn’t any way in hell such an opportunity could be missed. The attention had peaks and valleys, but it was looking sustainable.

When Scott and George put this out there, those of us on the DNF team were furious. I felt like I had been told my childhood was just an implanted memory, my parents were really actors, and that my penis was about 50% smaller than I thought it was. What the fuck had we been doing the past 3 years? Everyone else actually seemed to already see this coming though, and took it in stride. Mark and Scott were a force to behold when they would get going on the possibilities. George seemed torn, because he loved the game and wanted to see people enjoying the stuff we had put together for the video, but he also knew this was just not something that anyone else in the industry would have a chance to try again for a very long time, if ever.

Todd and Ken didn’t say much, I think they were wondering why they were there. Levelord thought it would be fun to watch, but other than that had his own stuff going on with Ritual that was really his main focus. Mike Wilson kept cracking jokes, but he was clearly on board.

After they put it all out there, those of us on the team started to come around to what they were aiming for, and by the end of it we were bought in. It would be a lot of fun, we’d be paid well, and it would be a part of history that nothing else we would do would live up to. We didn’t quite know what we were getting into, but that’s why all the other guys were the experienced biz guys and we were young naive developers.

This was me during a break in the first meeting… I was actually wobbly in my legs and really did need to lie down:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4841.jpg.html

I don’t think this was actually taken on any of the meeting days, but this is Mike Wilson. Ignore the label on the image… I think Joe was in a hurry:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4710.jpg.html

The fateful video that I now wish hadn’t been as good as it was:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e301/dsc00004.jpg.html

Keith and I after the first day… trying to distract ourselves from what we had just learned:
http://www.3drealms.com/gallery/e30…g_4860.jpg.html

So about that chair?

The first meeting was really just getting everyone up to speed. We all needed time to absorb it… and what was being proposed. They needed everyone involved to buy off on it because we’d all be working through the years to maintain the plan.

The plan was actually pretty simple… create the longest developed game in history that eventually is one of the greatest games ever made. You have the time to work on it properly (no shit), so given the intelligence and talent of all the people involved, it was a pretty good bet. All 3DR had to do was make money on other stuff. All Epic had to do was open up a wide channel between the two companies. 3DR would serve as a research house for future Epic engine updates, but also give 3DR everything they did as well. The boots on the ground just had to keep the drum beating and keep the image of business as usual going. The truly hard to swallow part of this was some of us had to eventually leave, but we were guaranteed we’d be ok. All we had to do was let go of the idea of just making DNF in the traditional way… which I’m ashamed to admit was easier to let go of than I thought it would be.

In fact, with my role in this, I wouldn’t ever really work on the “real” DNF. That was a tough pill to swallow, but again the big picture looked good.

The beauty of the plan is that even though I’m telling you about it now, it is too late for it to have any negative impact on the long term goal. That’s something that took me a long term to come to grips with. It just *works* and I’ll be damned if I understand fully why or how. That’s biz and marketing brilliance for you… I just know how to put maps together or script up some gameplay. *sigh*

What Epic got out of this whole deal was basically this mystery project that is a constant “customer” of their engine, with people always speculating on whether it was updated to the newest one or not, etc. You would be surprised at how many licenses this has helped sell through the years. Who said business made any sense? Not to mention a team to just do research into engine upgrades without any pressure of actually releasing anything. Huge advantage. Notice that Epic really pulled ahead in the engine licensing business after 2001? That’s *not* an accident.

So that chair again.

We didn’t end the first chat on a particularly *good* note, but I think we were mostly exhausted… but there was an undercurrent of “can we really trust each other on this?”. That’s typical of any big business deal, but this was a case where we would be agreeing to hold this story steady for decades. Yes, decades. You don’t go into this lightly.

We all came back the next day (Cliffy in white thankfully, not red). We went around and gave our thoughts on things after having a night to sleep on it. Scott and George wanted to get paperwork signed that day if we were going to attempt it at all. This seemed *way* too soon and I didn’t have a lawyer around to read the contract or anything. I was young, but I had had enough experience by that point to know you don’t sign a contract of any significance without having a lawyer read it. Unfortunately it was made clear that this offer was active only so long as we were all in the room. Once any one of us left it was void and Scott, George, and Mark Rein (the three that put it together) would deny all knowledge. They had never done any discussions of this in written form except the contracts which Scott Miller was holding.

That was pressure… here was this deal where I would be set for life, and if I backed out of it, it would blow the whole thing for both companies and everyone involved. Not only would I be backing out of the opportunity of a lifetime, but I would also be ruined in the industry because those guys have way more power than I do. I wanted to do it, but how do you commit on such short notice and without really knowing what you are signing?

Brandon, Allen, Keith, and I kept hemming and hawing and we could tell we were really causing problems with everyone else in the room. I said that I wanted to do it, but I *had* to have a lawyer review it before I signed it. The fury in the eyes of the guys sitting across from me was literally enough to give me a third degree burn. I have *never* felt that much fear in my life. Well… up to that point at least.

I was told to think about my next words very carefully before giving my final answer. Honestly, I felt this was a test to see how well I would hold up to pressure later when we had to “hold the lie” (the similarity to “hold the line” isn’t on accident), so I held firm and said I really wanted to, but needed to have it reviewed…

oh fuck…

Faster than I can even remember (literally… I don’t remember) I was knocked out of my chair by I *think* of all people Tim Sweeney (it was a wooden kitchen chair) and was pinned on the ground by Mike Wilson and Cliffy B (he’s so much stronger than I ever expected). George walks over to my chair and fucking stomps the shit out of it until the legs are broken off. He casually picks up one of the legs that had split into a shit your pants style point and starts tossing it up and down. Scott and Mark Rein alternate on and off saying that I apparently wasn’t aware how *real* business is done and that if I didn’t want to find out why those two companies had maintained such a strong position in the industry dating back to the shareware days (when it seems people didn’t ask nearly as many questions about why developers appeared, made a game, and then disappeared without a trace)… I had better reconsider my answer.

I do remember the next part very very well though… I will never forget it and I have to admit that I have dreams about it pretty frequently.

Cliffy and Mike pulled me up and shoved my face about 6 inches from the point of the chair leg. I was drenched in sweat (the trailers didn’t have decent AC so it was already hot as hell in there)… and if they had let go of me I would not have been able to stand on my own.

George looked me in the eyes and asked me one more time what I was going to do… so at that point I did what anyone would do…
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http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/
 
3DRealms is down?

Isn't that too soon?

I wanted to download a lot of beta and free material they had in the web when I arrived home later :(

Edit: Wow at that whole story O_O
 
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