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[Represent.]

Couldnt care less about 60 fps. Thats not what matters in 2024. Gaming studios need to think bigger than that. Give me physics based stuff not possible last gen. Give me AI not possible last gen. Give me game design not possible last gen.

60 fps was possible on the PS1. Who gives a shit. Utilize these consoles to give us what we've been lacking. Gears is a stale and boring franchise. The last one was 60 fps on the X1X. Didnt help one bit. Game came and went without any fanfare. Make it different. Make it feel next gen in ways we cant even imagine.

I know this isnt coming from Coalition, but this 60 fps or bust nonsense from gamers is missing the forest for the trees.

The fact that 99% of “gamers” can’t wrap their head around this simple logic is why each new gen jump gets less impressive than the one before it.

To them if a game has all the things you listed but is 30fps it is unplayable.

Complete fucking idiocy and lack of any vision or ambition.

Devs are now making the same game over and over, making it 60fps and calling it a next gen leap.

And look where it’s gotten us - game design is stale as fuck, ambition is all but dead.

Amazing

 

[midnightAI]

The fact that 99% of “gamers” can’t wrap their head around this simple logic is why each new gen jump gets less impressive than the one before it.

To them if a game has all the things you listed but is 30fps it is unplayable.

Complete fucking idiocy and lack of any vision or ambition.

Devs are now making the same game over and over, making it 60fps and calling it a next gen leap.

And look where it’s gotten us - game design is stale as fuck, ambition is all but dead.

Amazing

So 1% are right and 99% are wrong? hmmm

 

[poodaddy]

Its was good, but it wasnt that good.

As to the 60fps side of things and customers expectations, Push Square did an interesting poll recently:

So over 80% prefer 60 fps.....

But yeah let's all just ignore them and opt for more fidelity and physics because.....um......

Hmmm.

 

[Topher]

60fps was always possible, a design choice, not a feature of this gen. This fetishism with it is the feature of this gen. And I guess developers don’t mind it that much because this way they don’t need to sweat and make technical progress they just make a lastgen game, make it run at higher frames and call it a day.

No different than the "fetishism" with higher resolutions. Fact of the matter is that console generations have little to no meaning these days. Consoles are just another variety of PC. In the end, frame rates are dictated by settings and resolution just like on PC. Your console generation isn't very impressive because you are getting incremental upgrades every few years and the games being made are not made just for a single console but a wide variety of other PCs. So this idea that a game is "last gen" because the dev include a preset that brings frame rates up to 60 is a bit absurd.

 

[Clear]

Its was good, but it wasnt that good.

As to the 60fps side of things and customers expectations, Push Square did an interesting poll recently:

So 36% of respondents have no clue about trade-offs. Whoopty-do.

I could say something snarky about the percentage of people with sub 85 IQ's but that'd be unfair given part of that designation is based on age, and who knows how many kids voted.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Needs to be 120

 

[cormack12]

I will play this game. Enjoy it. Then probably play it online.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

Hamstringing every other creative ambition to meet an arbitrary frame-rate target is something I'd hate to become the norm myself.

We're not in the days of sprite + tile-set playfields anymore, there's too much variance attached to functionality for the trade-off to be always worthwhile.

Yeah because the games stuck at 30fps have been revelations in creative ambition.

 

[Fredrik]

Was never any doubt. They did a test flight of UE5 way back when it was new, had a presentation about it and while they couldn’t nail 60fps at the time they were close and I’m not surprised they’ve reached the target several years later.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Don’t expect amazing visuals then.

 

[Clear]

Yeah because the games stuck at 30fps have been revelations in creative ambition.

Yeah and every game that runs at 60fps is a winner...

Upgrading technology nearly always improves frame-rate, but it doesn't do shit for the content.

 

[makaveli60]

No different than the "fetishism" with higher resolutions. Fact of the matter is that console generations have little to no meaning these days. Consoles are just another variety of PC. In the end, frame rates are dictated by settings and resolution just like on PC. Your console generation isn't very impressive because you are getting incremental upgrades every few years and the games being made are not made just for a single console but a wide variety of other PCs. So this idea that a game is "last gen" because the dev include a preset that brings frame rates up to 60 is a bit absurd.

F the resolution obsession too. This framerate and resolution obsession is coming from pc gamers that don’t understand that looks is about much more than resolution and framerate. I would gladly sacrifice both to finally have some real nextgen gamey

 

[Represent.]

So 1% are right and 99% are wrong? hmmm

yes

 

[King Dazzar]

yes

1%er

 

[OverHeat]

The fact that 99% of “gamers” can’t wrap their head around this simple logic is why each new gen jump gets less impressive than the one before it.

To them if a game has all the things you listed but is 30fps it is unplayable.

Complete fucking idiocy and lack of any vision or ambition.

Devs are now making the same game over and over, making it 60fps and calling it a next gen leap.

And look where it’s gotten us - game design is stale as fuck, ambition is all but dead.

Amazing

Tag is perfect!!!

 

[Represent.]

1%er

Tag is perfect!!!

my tag should be shared with many others here frankly lol

if you'd rather NOT see: "physics based stuff not possible last gen. AI not possible last gen. game design not possible last gen." all so we can achieve 60fps on consoles then im not the crazy one.

lets all celebrate the same game being made over and over and praise it for being 60fps. sounds amazing

 

[Topher]

my tag should be shared with many others here frankly lol

if you'd rather NOT see: "physics based stuff not possible last gen. AI not possible last gen. game design not possible last gen." all so we can achieve 60fps on consoles then im not the crazy one.

lets all celebrate the same game being made over and over and praise it for being 60fps. sounds amazing

Right......cuz when I turn down the resolution on my PC to get higher frames, physics and AI no longer work.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

It'll be over 120 fps on my PC.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

I highly doubt that will happen. In fact UE5 currently does not even have support for 120hz on console. Unless you use the Fornite formula where the 120hz mode is painful and does not use a single UE5 feature.

The MP on 5 runs at 120fps. Downgrading to 60fps is stupid. It's like if the next CoD was 60fps MP. Pointless and won't happen.

 

[OverHeat]

You know you can have that experience too if you invest a little

 

[Goalus]

Hopefully the drop the open world skiff parts this time. And Kait.

Hopefully not.

 

[midnightAI]

yes

Look, I'm not a 60fps snob, far from it (I choose fidelity mode every time)

But if you think that making games 30fps suddenly makes them have amazing physics or gameplay never seen before then you are delusional.

Will Hellblade 2 have some amazing only possible next gen gameplay features or amazing physics? Of course not, all they are doing is pushing graphical fidelity higher, something most modern games (with graphics options) are doing already. Are there many PC games that have next gen only physics or gameplay features where you can have much more power than what the consoles offer?

Some people make it sound easy asking for next gen physics or AI or next gen gameplay (whatever that means). But its not, I'd argue these consoles are simply just not powerful enough to do it, even at 30fps. That's why there is a focus going forward on improving AI hardware.

 

[nowhat]

Must be series S, as for series X will be 120fps 4-8k.

On UE5? I'll have whatever drugs you're having. Judging by your avatar, steroids.

 

[Represent.]

Right......cuz when I turn down the resolution on my PC to get higher frames, physics and AI no longer work.

Key word here is PC.

I specifically highlighted consoles

i dont care about framerate on PC, you get what you pay for there

 

[FoxMcChief]

If a developers "vision" for a game is based on resolution that dev doesn't have much of a vision in the first place. Most games are going to be on PC regardless so there was never a single "vision" for the game that set one resolution or setting in stone. Basically we are talking about not enabling a preset on console that already exists. So everything suffering because of more options doesn't fly. The options are already there. And if the developer's "vision" was for a perfect image quality game then that game wouldn't be on console at all. Every dev has to make compromises to reach a wide vareity of systems. Thankfully advancements in upscaling tech is making this less and less of an issue just like the silly excuses for not having options.

I think you’re stuck on resolution. I’d rather a game have all the visual bells and whistles, like better lighting, shadows, ray tracing, textures, draw distance, and resolution. I’d like to see a developer get the most out of all those as they possibly can, at a stable 30, than comprise them, just for an extra 30 fps. But that’s me.

And I’d rather be happy than any of you.

 

[SkylineRKR]

child-shamer? Elaborate.

He's insane. He vented on Twitter that his 5 ish year old son made a remark about black people and his world crumbled. He essentially threw a still ignorant kid under the bus. His own even.

 

[Topher]

Key word here is PC.

I specifically highlighted consoles

i dont care about framerate on PC, you get what you pay for there

Consoles are based on PC tech. You get what you pay for on consoles as well. In any case, your frame rate ain't doing a thing to affect physics or AI so the concept is exactly the same.

I think you’re stuck on resolution. I’d rather a game have all the visual bells and whistles, like better lighting, shadows, ray tracing, textures, draw distance, and resolution. I’d like to see a developer get the most out of all those as they possibly can, at a stable 30, than comprise them, just for an extra 30 fps. But that’s me.

And I’d rather be happy than any of you.

That's all fine, but the problem with you 30fps purists is that you incorrectly believe that a performance mode negates you getting any of that stuff. Just doesn't.

 

[danklord]

Gears needs to be the powerhouse of Xbox, so anything less than 60fps would be disappointing. Gears 5 was one of the only games with Dolby Vision at launched and it looked absolutely stunning for it, very much enjoyed it on PC.

The real issue is the narrative is all over the place with near 5 years in between chapters they absolutely must tell a full and satisfying story with this new one. I doubt anyone cares about J.D. and Kait other than core fans, and when inviting returning gamers for this next chapter the story catch up is going to be nonsensical.

 

[King Dazzar]

my tag should be shared with many others here frankly lol

if you'd rather NOT see: "physics based stuff not possible last gen. AI not possible last gen. game design not possible last gen." all so we can achieve 60fps on consoles then im not the crazy one.

lets all celebrate the same game being made over and over and praise it for being 60fps. sounds amazing

If Gears 6 ends up being the same as previous entries. It'll most likely be down to them trying to deliver what they think the customer wants in terms of familiar gameplay. It wont be down to them giving us a 60fps option. But hey keep dreaming for the experience you're after. Nothing wrong in wanting something different.

I think you’re stuck on resolution. I’d rather a game have all the visual bells and whistles, like better lighting, shadows, ray tracing, textures, draw distance, and resolution. I’d like to see a developer get the most out of all those as they possibly can, at a stable 30, than comprise them, just for an extra 30 fps. But that’s me.

And I’d rather be happy than any of you.

Unfortunately that brings us back to options. I'm happy for you to have your 30fps option as long as I have my 40, 60, VRR unlocked ones etc. Seems fair to me.

 

[Topher]

F the resolution obsession too. This framerate and resolution obsession is coming from pc gamers that don’t understand that looks is about much more than resolution and framerate. I would gladly sacrifice both to finally have some real nextgen gamey

Nah....PC gamers simply understand how trivial it is to go from one to the other. Neither resolution or frame rate have to be sacrificed for you to have "some real nextgen gamey".

 

[FoxMcChief]

That's all fine, but the problem with you 30fps purists is that you incorrectly believe that a performance mode negates you any of that stuff. Just doesn't.

I’m not sure about that though. If time and resources were taken away from a “graphics mode” and put into a lesser graphics mode(performance), then how can the overall visuals not have been compromised? I’d prefer devs put all their time and resources into one mode and make the best game to match that vision. That can be 60 or 30, at whatever resolution.

 

[Fbh]

Good, though hopefully it's proper 60fps at decent resolutions and not 35-45 fps at 720p like Immortals of Aveum.

The fact that 99% of “gamers” can’t wrap their head around this simple logic is why each new gen jump gets less impressive than the one before it.

To them if a game has all the things you listed but is 30fps it is unplayable.

Complete fucking idiocy and lack of any vision or ambition.

Devs are now making the same game over and over, making it 60fps and calling it a next gen leap.

And look where it’s gotten us - game design is stale as fuck, ambition is all but dead.

Amazing

Most devs have been making the same types of games over and over for 10+ years, it's not a sudden phenomenon we got this gen because people want 60fps. Around the later half of the Ps3 gen most devs switched from focusing on innovation to focusing on refining established formulas.

Freeing up hardware resources by focusing on 30fps over 60 isn't going to give you amazing next gen physics and AI. It's going to give you the same games we've been playing for the past 15 years...but with better graphics.
We've had 30fps games this gen like Starfield, where was the amazing next gen gameplay there? 1000 boring empty planets? If anything it was destroyed in reviews, sales and user scores by Baldur's Gate 3, a game that runs at 60fps on consoles (except the city in act 3).
Where is the next gen gameplay in Hellblade 2? From what they've shown it looks like a glorified walking simulator just like the first one...except with better graphics.
Where was the next gen gameplay in all the 30fps focused titles (games with a heavily compromised 60fps mode) like Alan Wake 2, FFXVI, Plague Tale Requiem? Alan Wake 2 plays like a last gen game and FFXVI and Plaguetale often feel like something that could have been made on ps3.

Ps4 and X1 are substantially stronger than the Switch and there was no expectation for most games to be 60fps last gen. So logically we should be full of amazing open world games with cool physics like Tears of the Kingdom, right? Where are they? Oh that's right, everyone just made more of the same but with better graphics.

 

[Raven77]

Where is this notion that higher frame rate comes at the expense of game play coming from? That doesn't make any sense. Lowering settings and resolution to get higher frame rates doesn't change the game play.

Just fyi, game developers do not have a switch they click to enable 60 fps. It requires months if not more than a year of optimizing the engine and the game settings and assets to get it to run at 60fps. Those people working on that could be working on other things, like what I mentioned.

It's really not that hard of a concept so I'm confused by the disconnect here.

 

[Darsxx82]

The MP on 5 runs at 120fps. Downgrading to 60fps is stupid. It's like if the next CoD was 60fps MP. Pointless and won't happen.

Gears 5 was an XBO-based game with a much more optimized engine than UE5 in its current state.

Gears 6 is a game based on XSeries on UE 5 that currently its major features are not optimized to run decently at 60fps on consoles.

It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[King Dazzar]

Just fyi, game developers do not have a switch they click to enable 60 fps. It requires months if not more than a year of optimizing the engine and the game settings and assets to get it to run at 60fps. Those people working on that could be working on other things, like what I mentioned.

It's really not that hard of a concept so I'm confused by the disconnect here.

With the number of target platforms and diversity in PC's, surely the key would be using as scalable an engine as possible.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

In 1440p with VRS on Series X? Sure. Let's not forget that it's UE5 which is a lot more demanding than the latest version of UE4 (in Gears 5) and The Coalition is one of very few dev studios who can actually use full features of UE.

 

[Topher]

I’m not sure about that though. If time and resources were taken away from a “graphics mode” and put into a lesser graphics mode(performance), then how can the overall visuals not have been compromised? I’d prefer devs put all their time and resources into one mode and make the best game to match that vision. That can be 60 or 30, at whatever resolution.

Again, devs already have to create the ability to turn on/off features like ray tracing so it is simply a matter of creating a preset toggle. This stuff may be hidden from console gamers but this is all there for PC gamers to see. When it takes a matter of minutes for me to make adjustments in the same game you play on console then I have a hard time being outlandish claims about how long it takes for this stuff.

Just fyi, game developers do not have a switch they click to enable 60 fps. It requires months if not more than a year of optimizing the engine and the game settings and assets to get it to run at 60fps. Those people working on that could be working on other things, like what I mentioned.

It's really not that hard of a concept so I'm confused by the disconnect here.

The disconnect is that I don't buy this notion that 60fps requires months of work as I said above. Either way, devs like Remedy have said explicitly that frame rate doesn't dictate game play. They decide what the game is first and later address performance.

 

[CrustyBritches]

30fps, lazy-dev apologists claim that in exchange for accepting lower frame rate we get increased physics quality, more dynamic worlds, and higher npc count.

In reality all your getting is a poorly optimized game where the dev was allowed to cut corners and push out a technical turd that’s arguably no different than a PS4 game, and sometimes doing nothing on the gameplay side that even surpasses a 360 era title.

 

[DanielG165]

The Coalition are essentially Xbox’s Naughty Dog or Guerrilla Games, in that they’re straight masters of their craft. I absolutely wouldn’t be surprised if Gears 6 does run at 60fps and looks bonkers with very minute/not too noticeable sacrifices to do so. Gears 5 and its story DLC are prime examples of what The Coalition are capable of, and even Gears 4.

 

[Clear]

Some of you guys really need to stop using "optimized" as a synonym for having a high frame-rate.

Its up there with "lazy devs" for sheer cringe factor.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Just fyi, game developers do not have a switch they click to enable 60 fps. It requires months if not more than a year of optimizing the engine and the game settings and assets to get it to run at 60fps. Those people working on that could be working on other things, like what I mentioned.

It's really not that hard of a concept so I'm confused by the disconnect here.

Sony and Microsoft should mandate 60 fps modes in all games. Yes, I said it.

30 fps should be outlawed.

 

[makaveli60]

Nah....PC gamers simply understand how trivial it is to go from one to the other. Neither resolution or frame rate have to be sacrificed for you to have "some real nextgen gamey".

Dude, based on your posts you don’t understand the difference between designing a game around 30 fps or 60 fps. And let’s leave out pc of this question. With a console you get a closed hardware with determined power. If developers chose 30 fps as target they can squeeze out more from that same hardware than what they could with a 60 fps target. It’s definitely not just about resolution. This is just common sense and if you don’t believe me then listen to the infinite amount of developers who already talked about this for decades. If you are not capable to undestand this then we have nothing more to talk about.

 

[tmlDan]

Why another Gears, can't they make something new?

I don't know who wants this - i feel like the studio is wasting potential on that IP

 

[CrustyBritches]

Some of you guys really need to stop using "optimized" as a synonym for having a high frame-rate.

Its up there with "lazy devs" for sheer cringe factor.

That’s exactly what it is. Happened with Starfield, and next it will happen with Dragons Dogma 2.

 

[Topher]

Dude, based on your posts you don’t understand the difference between designing a game around 30 fps or 60 fps. And let’s leave out pc of this question. With a console you get a closed hardware with determined power. If developers chose 30 fps as target they can squeeze out more from that same hardware than what they could with a 60 fps target. It’s definitely not just about resolution. This is just common sense and if you don’t believe me then listen to the infinite amount of developers who already talked about this for decades. If you are not capable to undestand this then we have nothing more to talk about.

Games are not designed around frame rate. See below. Achieving 60fps is done first by lowering the resolution and then tweaking settings. This is exactly what PC gamers do all the time. And I am getting this from developers. Here is Remedy saying exactly what I am saying in their discussion with IGN this last year.

Watch at timestamps: 5:47 and 8:33.

"When you start making a game, the first discussion isn't about the frame rate. It is about what kind of game you are going to make. And then, later down the line, it is what kind of game play will it have. Is it fast paced and all that which means you probably want a higher frame rate"

On the tradeoff between quality and performance modes....
"The main difference is you've got to drop the resolution. When I tweeted about this I didn't tweet the resolution because look at the numbers and think 'that's bad'. You should look at the quality of this game ultimately. That's really really good. That's one thing, but that's not the thing that magically makes it run somewhere close to 60. On the CPU side we are doing ok. But it is a lot of tricks. Our engine has a bunch of settings. It is really about tweaking those settings like texture detail, shadow detail, quality of the lighting. All of these things. It really trying to maintain a good visual quality while trying to attain that frame rate."


So yeah....pretty much in line with what I've said. Think you should reel in your condescending remarks my man.

 

[makaveli60]

Games are not designed around frame rate. See below. Achieving 60fps is done first by lowering the resolution and then tweaking settings. This is exactly what PC gamers do all the time. And I am getting this from developers. Here is Remedy saying exactly what I am saying in their discussion with IGN this last year.

Watch at timestamps: 5:47 and 8:33.

"When you start making a game, the first discussion isn't about the frame rate. It is about what kind of game you are going to make. And then, later down the line, it is what kind of game play will it have. Is it fast paced and all that which means you probably want a higher frame rate"

On the tradeoff between quality and performance modes....
"The main difference is you've got to drop the resolution. When I tweeted about this I didn't tweet the resolution because look at the numbers and think 'that's bad'. You should look at the quality of this game ultimately. That's really really good. That's one thing, but that's not the thing that magically makes it run somewhere close to 60. On the CPU side we are doing ok. But it is a lot of tricks. Our engine has a bunch of settings. It is really about tweaking those settings like texture detail, shadow detail, quality of the lighting. All of these things. It really trying to maintain a good visual quality while trying to attain that frame rate."


So yeah....pretty much in line with what I've said. Think you should reel in your condescending remarks my man.

Okay, so based on this logic gta 6 can run on a ps2 if you turn down the graphics just enough. I’m done, thanks.

 

[xcalibersa]

Im sorry what? Wizards at UE4? G5 was at best a decent looking, static, boring ass game

 

[Topher]

Okay, so based on this logic gta 6 can run on a ps2 if you turn down the graphics just enough. I’m done, thanks.

That isn't the logic at all. But since you are making up bizarre shit like that and ignoring the statements of an actual developer.....yeah, I'd say you are done.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Gears should have ended with 3/Judgement

 

[Ozriel]

Celebrating 60fps for shooting game of this caliber is rather sad.. this needs to be 120fps but thanks to the lovely zen2 CPU you will take 60 and be happy

Paying $499 for hardware in 2020 and demanding 120 fps in a next gen only game.

For both consoles, Zen 2 was the best available AMD CPU generation that could make the Q4 2020 launch.

Any gamer who absolutely needs framerates > 60fps should be investing in a PC.